WW IL - Do Werewolves Dream of Electric Sheep? Game Over, page 36 - Page 17

Jonathan Ezarik · 07-19-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I wonder if a human that gets scanned will be told the player name (to help form a COT since that is obviously our only method to do so), and androids that are scanned are only told the character and not the player name, so they don't have an easy night kill..
Then Cronin knowing he has been scanned as an android and outed, comes out first in a way that Holden would have to out himself in order to condemn him, ie 1 for 1 swap.

I'm trying to remember from the movie, but don't the Blade Runners kill the replicants once they determine their status with the test? That doesn't necessarily mean the same thing will happen in game, but is it possible that they can scan and kill on the same night? Or in the case of Holden, scan and try to kill?

st.cronin · 07-19-2007, 10:04 AM

There is a difference between Telle's dream and mine, mine specifically said I remember nothing of the dream, but woke up ... satisfied. Telle says her dream was of sex. Its not quite the same situation as ardent and Swaggs.

Telle · 07-19-2007, 10:05 AM

For your consideration...

Day 1 - Kwhit performs the test on AE, and discovers he's a wolf.
Day 2 - Kwhit attempts to kill AE but misses because he's Holden and not that good. The wolves then kill Kwhit that night.
Day 3 - St. Cronin, AE's fellow replicant, comes out claiming he was scanned last night by Holden knowing full well that Holden is dead and can't dispute him!

Telle · 07-19-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Telle, you've sent mixed up signals here, please clarify, you elarned the ROLE the player has when they scanned you OR you learned the players name?

You flip flopped on that in a couple posts.

I'm sorry.. I'm just so excited that I think I caught a wolf!!

I learned the player's name, not the role.

RendeR · 07-19-2007, 10:08 AM

Cronin tries to explain the dreams as different to seperate himself from a possible link that we have discovered. Then Telle's last post comes along and makes even more sense.

I think we have found a replicant folks. Question is, do we vote him off and never know for sure or wait and let one of the blade runners kill him tonight?

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:09 AM

Telle, if I'm a wolf/replicant/whatever, I'm going to beat down tanglewood after the game for not informing me that I was.

st.cronin · 07-19-2007, 10:09 AM

Telle, rule #1 for a wolf is do not lie unless you absolutely have to. A wolf who knew the scanning procedure would describe it pitch-perfectly. The fact that your experience and mine is different actually makes me trust you more, not less.

Telle · 07-19-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

There is a difference between Telle's dream and mine, mine specifically said I remember nothing of the dream, but woke up ... satisfied. Telle says her dream was of sex. Its not quite the same situation as ardent and Swaggs.

Hmm.. that is somewhat different then. The wording of mine did not sound like I was in any way "satisfied".

Alan T · 07-19-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

But how would cronin have known that telle would be told the player name? I'm very inclined to form our COT around those two people as well.

I doubt he would have known. As an android he would have just known he was scanned by Holden, and knowing that eventually it would get out, that he woudl try to out holden so they at least know who to go after at night. So he presented a story that sounded reasonable based on what he knew (That he received a character name) to try to both earn trust, plus force Holden to out himself.

Then Telle having learned a player's name instead of the character name blew that apart as she is good and received different information.

Its just a hypothesis, but the only thing I can think of other than either telle being bad (and why would she have outed herself like that), or simply the different guys give different messages (Deckard message vs holden message), but I would assume that is easily enough figured out based on who else got scanned.

RendeR · 07-19-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telle

Hmm.. that is somewhat different then. The wording of mine did not sound like I was in any way "satisfied".

What woman ever is.....err.nevermind

Swaggs · 07-19-2007, 10:12 AM

I'm sticking with AE today.

What I have learned from the Telle/st.cronin situation is that a scanned player learns the player's ID.

Who did AE vote for yesterday? Who did KWhit vote for yesterday?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Day 2 Vote Count

bulletsponge 6 - Barkeep49, Telle, st.cronin, AlanT, Jonathan Ezarik, Chief Rum
ardent enthusiast 5 - KWhit, LoneStarGirl, Swaggs, bulletsponge, path12
KWhit 2 - twothree, ardent enthusiast
Alan T 1 - Lathum
RendeR 1 - ntndeacon

Did not vote: RendeR

Results post coming up.

st.cronin · 07-19-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I doubt he would have known. As an android he would have just known he was scanned by Holden, and knowing that eventually it would get out, that he woudl try to out holden so they at least know who to go after at night. So he presented a story that sounded reasonable based on what he knew (That he received a character name) to try to both earn trust, plus force Holden to out himself.

Then Telle having learned a player's name instead of the character name blew that apart as she is good and received different information.

Its just a hypothesis, but the only thing I can think of other than either telle being bad (and why would she have outed herself like that), or simply the different guys give different messages (Deckard message vs holden message), but I would assume that is easily enough figured out based on who else got scanned.

How have I tried to out Holden? I've said I know who Holden is. If I want to out him, I just say HOLDEN IS PLAYER X.

st.cronin · 07-19-2007, 10:14 AM

I'll go along with Swaggs... for now.

vote Ardent Enthusiast

Swaggs · 07-19-2007, 10:15 AM

Vote Ardent Enthusiast

Telle · 07-19-2007, 10:17 AM

And if Swagg's theory about Kwhit is correct, and my theory that he was Holden is correct, then my theory holds with Kwhit following the plan he posted and scanning AE.

However, since Swaggs said he wasn't scanned, then whoever Deckard is didn't follow Kwhit's plan. And so we're still waiting to hear from someone else who was scanned night 1.

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Who did AE vote for yesterday? Who did KWhit vote for yesterday?

I fail to see your point. It's cool you think it's weird we had the same dream. I think it's weird as well. I'm happy to go down that road.

Vote Swaggs

Swaggs · 07-19-2007, 10:18 AM

Here is a thought to flesh out a bit:

If we accept the fact that Blade Runners are IDed when they run their tests (which I think we all have), should the Blade Runners ID a replicant when they find one?

The replicants will obviously know the Blade Runners once they are IDed, so there is little benefit in keeping it a secret, from what I can tell. The Blade Runners can give us a chance to lynch the replicant and buy themselves another night by having the bodyguard protect them. And, we can build a bit of a CoT. Any thoughts on this?

(Note: I am not advocating them doing so, just looking for discussion)

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telle

And if Swagg's theory about Kwhit is correct, and my theory that he was Holden is correct, then my theory holds with Kwhit following the plan he posted and scanning AE.

However, since Swaggs said he wasn't scanned, then whoever Deckard is didn't follow Kwhit's plan. And so we're still waiting to hear from someone else who was scanned night 1.

Are we assuming I've been scanned? I haven't been.

RendeR · 07-19-2007, 10:21 AM

I want to hear from another scanned player so we can get a better read on this situation.

I was not scanned and have not received any pm's beyond my cheese dream.

Telle · 07-19-2007, 10:21 AM

Oh, and just if anyone didn't quite catch it... if my theory is correct, then we've caught TWO replicants!! Both AE and St. Cronin!!

So we can lynch one today and have Deckard blow the other away tonight!

st.cronin · 07-19-2007, 10:21 AM

Swaggs, does it seem possible to you that replicants don't find out if they get scanned?

Telle · 07-19-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Are we assuming I've been scanned? I haven't been.

I'm saying you're a replicant who was scanned by a now deceased Bladerunner. Of course you'd say you haven't been scanned!

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:22 AM

Right. Too simple.

If it were that easy, and I was a replicant, knowing that cronin and I were replicants and we're totallly screwed now...I'd just give up.

Fact is, I know I'm human, as per my PM.

RendeR · 07-19-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Are we assuming I've been scanned? I haven't been.

I find the highly unlikely AE, everyone was out for you to get scanned early.

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telle

I'm saying you're a replicant who was scanned by a now deceased Bladerunner. Of course you'd say you haven't been scanned!

They're selling clues at K-Mart. Blue light special.

Telle · 07-19-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Right. Too simple.

If it were that easy, and I was a replicant, knowing that cronin and I were replicants and we're totallly screwed now...I'd just give up.

Fact is, I know I'm human, as per my PM.

Oh come on.. last game when it was beyond clear as day that RendeR was a wolf he still did everything he could think of to try and avoid getting lynched.. and I don't recall NTN then rolling over when he became the last remaining wolf.

Alan T · 07-19-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

How have I tried to out Holden? I've said I know who Holden is. If I want to out him, I just say HOLDEN IS PLAYER X.

Ahh I misread your initial post. I went back and looked at it and saw you said you were told who the player was as well. For some reason I was thinking that was what was different between your story and Telle's. BUt the difference is you learned the role when she didn't.

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

I find the highly unlikely AE, everyone was out for you to get scanned early.

I find it very unlikely as well.

Only PMs I've received:

Tangle: Tennis human role
Cronin: Some bbcf thing
Tangle: Don't worry about screwing up the game
Tangle: don't post my pm's again (warning)

If I was scanned, it's news to me.

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telle

Oh come on.. last game when it was beyond clear as day that RendeR was a wolf he still did everything he could think of to try and avoid getting lynched.. and I don't recall NTN then rolling over when he became the last remaining wolf.

You clearly don't know me that well.

If it's a sinking ship, I'm jumping.

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

You clearly don't know me that well.

If it's a sinking ship, I'm jumping.

Seriously, I would. I'd give you all a good game, because you would have obviously had the easiest game ever to figure out who the replicants were.

Come on.

Swaggs · 07-19-2007, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Swaggs, does it seem possible to you that replicants don't find out if they get scanned?

Sure.

That's why I don't want to do anything with you or Telle today and am hoping some other folks will step up with information from being scanned.

The thing that bothers me with your account is that KWhit called for Deckard to scan me and Holden to scan AE. You are saying that KWhit is not Holden, so that blows a big hole in the case against AE.

Granted the case against AE could be completely circumstantial, but there are a quite lot of things supporting it, as well.

st.cronin · 07-19-2007, 10:27 AM

My guess is that something pretty dramatic happens if a replicant gets scanned, and I'm thinking that hasn't happened yet.

twothree · 07-19-2007, 10:27 AM

Well, just woke up and got caught up. At least it looks like we have some information to work with today.

Alan T · 07-19-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Here is a thought to flesh out a bit:

If we accept the fact that Blade Runners are IDed when they run their tests (which I think we all have), should the Blade Runners ID a replicant when they find one?

The replicants will obviously know the Blade Runners once they are IDed, so there is little benefit in keeping it a secret, from what I can tell. The Blade Runners can give us a chance to lynch the replicant and buy themselves another night by having the bodyguard protect them. And, we can build a bit of a CoT. Any thoughts on this?

(Note: I am not advocating them doing so, just looking for discussion)

There is 14 people left. 3 evil, so 11 good. 2 (or possibly just 1) of the remaining left are a blade runner. (Assuming at least 1 is alive based on Cronin and Telle not wanting to out who scanned them, could be different people and both still alive though). 2 scanned people who for this arguement we'll assume are good, 1 bodyguard (assuming he isn't dead or one of the scanned people). That leaves:

3 unknown evil, as few as 6 unknown good or possibly as many as 8 unknown good.

Probably not good enough odds for people to out themselves just yet, but if we can get a few other scanned known goods out there, it would be better odds for us to be at a place to just open up and reveal who is good and who is left to choose from.

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:29 AM

If tangle DID make me or swaggs a replicant and told us BOTH we're humans, then I'll never play a game tangle moderates again.

Tell me I'm a human when I'm actually something else is fairly...without calling ANYONE a name, sucky.

Swaggs · 07-19-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

There is 14 people left. 3 evil, so 11 good. 2 (or possibly just 1) of the remaining left are a blade runner. (Assuming at least 1 is alive based on Cronin and Telle not wanting to out who scanned them, could be different people and both still alive though). 2 scanned people who for this arguement we'll assume are good, 1 bodyguard (assuming he isn't dead or one of the scanned people). That leaves:

3 unknown evil, as few as 6 unknown good or possibly as many as 8 unknown good.

Probably not good enough odds for people to out themselves just yet, but if we can get a few other scanned known goods out there, it would be better odds for us to be at a place to just open up and reveal who is good and who is left to choose from.

What about Telle and st.cronin claiming to know the identity of who scanned them (both agree on the identity, but not the role)?

If the wolves also learn the identity from a scan, then the Blade Runners are sitting ducks and we lose all information they have acquired.

Probably too early, but something to think about.

RendeR · 07-19-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I find it very unlikely as well.

Only PMs I've received:

Tangle: Tennis human role
Cronin: Some bbcf thing
Tangle: Don't worry about screwing up the game
Tangle: don't post my pm's again (warning)

If I was scanned, it's news to me.

Right and of course we just HAVE to trust this as you wouldn't ever lie about such a thing. Come on Ardent, you're too well known a player to try this gambit.

twothree · 07-19-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

I want to hear from another scanned player so we can get a better read on this situation.

I was not scanned and have not received any pm's beyond my cheese dream.

To my knowledge, I was not scanned last night.

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Right and of course we just HAVE to trust this as you wouldn't ever lie about such a thing. Come on Ardent, you're too well known a player to try this gambit.

I could jpeg my PM folder, I've done that in the past. I could do any number of things...only I keep getting slapped with "you can't do this or that" stuff.

st.cronin · 07-19-2007, 10:36 AM

Is there any reason for a player who was scanned to not say anything?

The following players have not checked in today:

LoneStarGirl, path12, Lathum

Only two of us have claimed to be scanned. What are the odds? Pretty long I think.

Telle · 07-19-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

What about Telle and st.cronin claiming to know the identity of who scanned them (both agree on the identity, but not the role)?

If the wolves also learn the identity from a scan, then the Blade Runners are sitting ducks and we lose all information they have acquired.

Probably too early, but something to think about.

But I don't think they know who scanned me. I think they learned one and killed him. And since there's still one unknown replicant out there (assuming that I'm right about AE and St. Cronin), I don't think Deckard should out himself at this point.

BUT.. I did just realize that Deckard can know that what I'm saying is correct and be sure that I'm human since he personally performed the test on me, and thus he can kill St. Cronin tonight without worrying that I'm leading him astray. So in that case, we should lynch AE and let the Bladerunner take care of St. Cronin, right?

Unvote St. Cronin
Vote Ardent Enthusiast

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:36 AM

Let me guess, though, I'm too "smart" a player for that, though...yada yada yada.

Jonathan Ezarik · 07-19-2007, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

I find the highly unlikely AE, everyone was out for you to get scanned early.

And everyone was calling for Swaggs to be scanned as well. Was he?

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telle

But I don't think they know who scanned me. I think they learned one and killed him. And since there's still one unknown replicant out there (assuming that I'm right about AE and St. Cronin), I don't think Deckard should out himself at this point.

BUT.. I did just realize that Deckard can know that what I'm saying is correct and be sure that I'm human since he personally performed the test on me, and thus he can kill St. Cronin tonight without worrying that I'm leading him astray. So in that case, we should lynch AE and let the Bladerunner take care of St. Cronin, right?

Unvote St. Cronin
Vote Ardent Enthusiast

Yeah, and you and we'll all sing by the campfire after the world's easiest werewolf game known to me.

Put on a jacket, you're snowing yourself in.

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:39 AM

known to me = known to man.

RendeR · 07-19-2007, 10:39 AM

No

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Let me guess, though, I'm too "smart" a player for that, though...yada yada yada.

No no Ardent, I never said you were smart

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

And everyone was calling for Swaggs to be scanned as well. Was he?

ding ding ding

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

No

No no Ardent, I never said you were smart

Right. Whatever.

Poli · 07-19-2007, 10:42 AM

You know, it might just be fitting if this game had me as a replicant and I didn't know it.

If that's the case, I'd sincerely hope that the humans win an insanely easy slam dunk game.

RendeR · 07-19-2007, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Right. Whatever.

It was a joke, tenderfoot.

07-19-2007, 10:04 AM	#802
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	There is a difference between Telle's dream and mine, mine specifically said I remember nothing of the dream, but woke up ... satisfied. Telle says her dream was of sex. Its not quite the same situation as ardent and Swaggs. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

07-19-2007, 10:08 AM	#805
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Cronin tries to explain the dreams as different to seperate himself from a possible link that we have discovered. Then Telle's last post comes along and makes even more sense. I think we have found a replicant folks. Question is, do we vote him off and never know for sure or wait and let one of the blade runners kill him tonight? __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

07-19-2007, 10:09 AM	#806
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Telle, if I'm a wolf/replicant/whatever, I'm going to beat down tanglewood after the game for not informing me that I was. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-19-2007, 10:09 AM	#807
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Telle, rule #1 for a wolf is do not lie unless you absolutely have to. A wolf who knew the scanning procedure would describe it pitch-perfectly. The fact that your experience and mine is different actually makes me trust you more, not less. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

07-19-2007, 10:14 AM	#813
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I'll go along with Swaggs... for now. vote Ardent Enthusiast __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

07-19-2007, 10:05 AM	#803
Telle College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY	For your consideration... Day 1 - Kwhit performs the test on AE, and discovers he's a wolf. Day 2 - Kwhit attempts to kill AE but misses because he's Holden and not that good. The wolves then kill Kwhit that night. Day 3 - St. Cronin, AE's fellow replicant, comes out claiming he was scanned last night by Holden knowing full well that Holden is dead and can't dispute him!

07-19-2007, 10:15 AM	#814
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Vote Ardent Enthusiast __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

07-19-2007, 10:17 AM	#815
Telle College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY	And if Swagg's theory about Kwhit is correct, and my theory that he was Holden is correct, then my theory holds with Kwhit following the plan he posted and scanning AE. However, since Swaggs said he wasn't scanned, then whoever Deckard is didn't follow Kwhit's plan. And so we're still waiting to hear from someone else who was scanned night 1.

07-19-2007, 10:18 AM	#817
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Here is a thought to flesh out a bit: If we accept the fact that Blade Runners are IDed when they run their tests (which I think we all have), should the Blade Runners ID a replicant when they find one? The replicants will obviously know the Blade Runners once they are IDed, so there is little benefit in keeping it a secret, from what I can tell. The Blade Runners can give us a chance to lynch the replicant and buy themselves another night by having the bodyguard protect them. And, we can build a bit of a CoT. Any thoughts on this? (Note: I am not advocating them doing so, just looking for discussion) __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

07-19-2007, 10:21 AM	#819
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	I want to hear from another scanned player so we can get a better read on this situation. I was not scanned and have not received any pm's beyond my cheese dream. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

07-19-2007, 10:21 AM	#820
Telle College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY	Oh, and just if anyone didn't quite catch it... if my theory is correct, then we've caught TWO replicants!! Both AE and St. Cronin!! So we can lynch one today and have Deckard blow the other away tonight!

07-19-2007, 10:21 AM	#821
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Swaggs, does it seem possible to you that replicants don't find out if they get scanned? __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

07-19-2007, 10:22 AM	#823
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Right. Too simple. If it were that easy, and I was a replicant, knowing that cronin and I were replicants and we're totallly screwed now...I'd just give up. Fact is, I know I'm human, as per my PM. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-19-2007, 10:27 AM	#832
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	My guess is that something pretty dramatic happens if a replicant gets scanned, and I'm thinking that hasn't happened yet. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

07-19-2007, 10:27 AM	#833
twothree College Prospect Join Date: May 2005	Well, just woke up and got caught up. At least it looks like we have some information to work with today.

07-19-2007, 10:29 AM	#835
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	If tangle DID make me or swaggs a replicant and told us BOTH we're humans, then I'll never play a game tangle moderates again. Tell me I'm a human when I'm actually something else is fairly...without calling ANYONE a name, sucky. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-19-2007, 10:36 AM	#840
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Is there any reason for a player who was scanned to not say anything? The following players have not checked in today: LoneStarGirl, path12, Lathum Only two of us have claimed to be scanned. What are the odds? Pretty long I think. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

07-19-2007, 10:36 AM	#842
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Let me guess, though, I'm too "smart" a player for that, though...yada yada yada. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-19-2007, 10:39 AM	#845
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	known to me = known to man. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-19-2007, 10:42 AM	#849
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	You know, it might just be fitting if this game had me as a replicant and I didn't know it. If that's the case, I'd sincerely hope that the humans win an insanely easy slam dunk game. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

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