The Official MLB 2007 Thread

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

By who? Baker has long been thought a schlub who never got the most out of his talent and simply rode Bonds/Kent to some wins. I can't think of anyone outside of ESPN that would ever think of him as a smart baseball man.

EDIT: Read the article. I can't remember people being that high on Baker. His long term misuse of players was already starting to show by that point. I also didn't realize he'd won Manager of the year twice, but I don't pay attention to the awards most years as they're almost always atrocious.

Its easy to look back with 20/20 hindsight, but Baker WAS considered to be a genius back in the late 90s. He was in very high demand by other ball clubs and many considered him to be a great manager. A minority was saying he isn't that good, but most people considered him to be great, as evidenced by the Manager of the Year awards.

I remember when the Cubs got Dusty. You had people saying that's the final piece to break the curse.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Someone like Jim Leyland comes quickly to mind. While there were pieces in place in Detroit to become a good team, it took two decent FA moves (Rogers/Ordonez) and a managerial change to make the leap. If you don't think Leyland's tirade early last season wasn't good for a couple of wins, then you don't know the psychological side of human beings. You can have all the numerical data in the world, but without someone to properly assign it and massage the various egos that produce those numbers, you end up with unexpected failure.

Tony LaRussa, as bad as he is for the long term health of starting pitchers, always seems to produce winners. He guided a mediocre at best St. Louis team to the championship last year. Are you honestly going to put all the credit on the players and none on the manager? That's just absurd.

On my own experience in coaching (basketball/volleyball/lacrosse) I can honestly say that I've both won and lost games entirely due to pre-game/half-time speeches as well as in game adjustments that put players into the right frame of mind and physical position to perform their best/worst. Nobody can win consistently without good players, but no amount of talent can properly police itself without appropriate leadership to get them to live up to what they are capable of.

We could also look at Joe Gibbs. Here's a guy who won 3 SB's with 3 different QB's and 3 different RB's. It didn't matter who the players were as long as he could have enough time to mold them into his system.

This is really an across the board sports situation. Joe Girardi made a big difference in Florida last year. His tactics weren't always perfect, but that team played well above their established talent level. You can't honestly chalk it up entirely to a bunch of young players coming into their own at the very same time can you?

A manager can make a tremendous difference for a team. I'll take Bobby Cox over Dusty Baker every day of the week due to his short term and long term success as well as his record of properly using/resting players to prevent injury. Do you honestly think we see a 14 consecutive division crown streak with Baker in Atlanta? Do you honestly think SF doesn't add on several wins per year with Cox there? Those are manager wins, and some are due to decisions not even made during the specific game won, but a game 3 months earlier where a starter was pulled at the right time and thus stayed healthier and was able to perform much closer to his peak later in the season. I'd go so far as to say that baseball managers attribute more directly to team success than the other major sports (except maybe basketball).

Now that you mentioned you've coached, do you think there might be some bias here?

Baseball Prospectus had to Tigers picked to finish 2nd in their division behind the Twins and ahead of the White Sox. That was almost a dead-on projection that didn't take Leyland into account. The biggest thing Leyland has done is given his players defined roles. Leyland was hitting Neifi Perez leadoff for a stretch last season and has used Todd Jones as his closer over better relievers.

LaRussa has consistently managed talented clubs in Oakland and St. Louis. As far as talent goes, he's probably been the 2nd luckiest manager next to Bobby Cox. Pointing out World Series wins as part of greatness is ridiculous. A mediocre St. Louis team won last year because of how much luck is involved in winning once you get to the playoffs in the Wild Card era. If we're going to give him credit for a World Series win with a mediocre club are we going to blame him for the A's and Cardinals teams that should have won it, but didn't?

Also, its absurd that you said earlier you were mostly saber guy and then mention Tony LaRussa of all people as a great manager. This is a guy that sent Pujols out to left field a couple years ago with a serious injury to his shoulder. The intent, according to La Russa, was to intimidate the opponent, even though Pujols had to underhand the ball to the shortstop every time the ball went to him. This is after team doctors told LaRussa that Pujols risked career ending injury if he threw a baseball. If you think LaRussa is a great manager, I suggest picking up his book and see if you can make it 50 pages before throwing up.

Girardi was hated by his players. His also sent Josh Johnson out to the mound after a rain delay and he hasn't been the same since. Don't you find it odd that not one single player spoke out on his behalf when the rumors of him being fired started or even after he was fired. His team also finished 2 games under their Pythag record. Last year they finished 78-84, this year they're 23-25, so its not like this was an untalented team that he was managing.

Bobby Cox is generally considered the best manager in baseball and you could make a strong arguement that Baker was the worst so we're working with extremes this year. During that 14 year run there were 3 years in which the Braves won the division by 2 games or less and I'm could easily see teams run by Baker not winning those. However, the next closest finish was 6.5 games and if you think the difference in Baker and Cox is that large then we're talking the difference in All-Star player and replacement level player.

I'd also like to go back to the point about LaRussa winning the World Series with a mediocre team. Cox took his team to the playoffs 14 times. Surely, if a manager as great as Bobby Cox had some sort of tangible impact on the game, they'd have won more than one World Series, wouldn't they? You see, Bobby Cox and the Braves are the best example of how fluky winning the World Series can be in the Wild Card era.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

By who? Baker has long been thought a schlub who never got the most out of his talent and simply rode Bonds/Kent to some wins. I can't think of anyone outside of ESPN that would ever think of him as a smart baseball man.

EDIT: Read the article. I can't remember people being that high on Baker. His long term misuse of players was already starting to show by that point. I also didn't realize he'd won Manager of the year twice, but I don't pay attention to the awards most years as they're almost always atrocious.

Baker was absolutely considered a great manager by just about everyone outside the stats community (the same stats community that thinks a manager's impact is minimal). Don't you remember the stadiums filled with "In Dusty we trust" signs his first year with the Cubs? Try to find a negative article about Dusty prior to his 2nd season with the Cubs.

[Atocep]

Chief, Angels had a nice sweep of the Yankees and are looking a lot better than I expected. With Kendrick back and Kotchman hitting the ball as well as he has, they have a pretty solid lineup.

I expect Oakland to make another 2nd half run, but right now the Angels look like their the class of that division.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Chief, Angels had a nice sweep of the Yankees and are looking a lot better than I expected. With Kendrick back and Kotchman hitting the ball as well as he has, they have a pretty solid lineup.

I expect Oakland to make another 2nd half run, but right now the Angels look like their the class of that division.

What's even better is that we still have GA and Rivera coming back, although I'm not sure how they're going to resolve the Willits-GA-Rivera LF-DH spot conundrum.

By all reports, Kotchman is hittign about what he was expected to if he was healthy two years ago. Kendrick has all the talent int he world. And Napoli has finally bought into some adjustment to his swing that makes him less of the free swinger he once was, leading to how he is hitting now.

Still, this offense is going to go through some tough spots. Willits, Kendrick, Napoli and Kotchman are all so young and bound to continue to have their ups and downs.

I think the A's will make their usual run, as you said, but they have so much injuries and such a weak offense, they're running out of time. So I'm crossing my fingers there. The pitching and defense for us have been terrific.

Now if only we could figure out Ervin Santana.

[Ksyrup]

The Yankees can't keep this up all year, can they? This has been so much fun, I hope it never ends.

According to Verducci on Mike & Mike this morning, the AL WC winner has won 95 games for the past 6 years. If that happens this year, the Yankees would have to go 74-39 to end the season to get to 95 wins. Also mentioned this morning was that on the day Clemens announced he was signing with the Yankees, they were 5.5 games out of first. Since then - in 22 days - they've lost 8 games in the standings. I guess he's setting himself up for legend status if this team can turn it around and make the playoffs, but you have to wonder whether he's wishing he had signed with the Red Sox at this point.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The Yankees can't keep this up all year, can they? This has been so much fun, I hope it never ends.

According to Verducci on Mike & Mike this morning, the AL WC winner has won 95 games for the past 6 years. If that happens this year, the Yankees would have to go 74-39 to end the season to get to 95 wins. Also mentioned this morning was that on the day Clemens announced he was signing with the Yankees, they were 5.5 games out of first. Since then - in 22 days - they've lost 8 games in the standings. I guess he's setting himself up for legend status if this team can turn it around and make the playoffs, but you have to wonder whether he's wishing he had signed with the Red Sox at this point.

I am beginning to think the BoSox weren't ever an option. I think he wishes he were in Houston if anything. Close to home and in a very weak devision where the top teams can't even beat non NL Central teams.

From the get go this was a two horse race, not that it should matter to BoSox fans, as it this point he'd just be a luxury.

[Atocep]

Whether you've heard of Steve Dalkowski or not, this is a fascinating read. The story is amazing and the stats are mind-boggling.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...kowski-depths/

[Ksyrup]

Barber again: "I remember one night, Bo (Belinsky, Dalkowski's roommate; how bad an idea was that?) and I were together, and we went into this place, and Steve's there, and he says, 'Hey, guys, come over and look at this beautiful sight'—24 scotch-and-waters lined up in front of him. And he was pitching the next day! Then he stopped on the way home and bought a gallon of wine and killed that, too. The next night they just carried him off the mound in the fourth inning."


I tried this once during a game of Inside the Park Baseball and didn't quite make it through the second inning.

[Ksyrup]

Damn, I guess ESPN's looking for every angle they can on the Bonds HR record story. The front page has an article suggesting someone might try to kill him to keep him from breaking the record. Worthy of a front page, "could happen" article? I don't know...

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Whether you've heard of Steve Dalkowski or not, this is a fascinating read. The story is amazing and the stats are mind-boggling.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...kowski-depths/

very interesting stuff.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Damn, I guess ESPN's looking for every angle they can on the Bonds HR record story. The front page has an article suggesting someone might try to kill him to keep him from breaking the record. Worthy of a front page, "could happen" article? I don't know...

And it just so happens that ESPN has the Giants against the Mets tonight. Seems like a rather low attempt at getting viewers for their game tonight and future SF games they'll televise between now and the time he breaks the record.

[Crapshoot]

Everyone should watch tonight, because Tim Lincecum is pitching. The guy's amazing.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Everyone should watch tonight, because Tim Lincecum is pitching. The guy's amazing.

I can't wait to see him. Although as a Mets fan it may sting a little.

[sterlingice]

I can't believe I missed the start of this game. I was wanting to see Lincecum and Perez go at it.

SI

[TroyF]

Kansas City Royals
Texas Rangers
Washington Nationals
St. Louis Cardinals
Cincinnati Reds

Those are the only five teams with a winning percentage worse than the New York Yankees right now. The 24 million dollar Devil Rays are tied with them.

And yet I'm still scared. Is it at all beyond the realm of possibility that they could catch fire in the second half and go into the playoffs scorching hot? Last year the Twins were 25-33 after 58 games. They finished with 96 wins. The Yankees are 21-29 now. They go 4-4 in their next 8 and they are at the same spot.

If they were to do it, it'd be worse than watching them lead wire to wire. Not only would we be forced to follow their comeback on a daily basis, Clemens would move into God like status. The Summer of Bonds and Clemens. I'd be sick to my stomach. It just can't happen, can it?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Calis

8 out of 10 now!

Ahh, we have to enjoy these runs while they last. They are few and far between.

Looking good though, the bullpen finally shaping up a bit with Greinke and Perez moved back there.

I still think I'd stick with Soria over Dotel for closer for a while, I just don't trust Dotel but I guess that's where the money went. Rather see them build someone up who's going to be around for a few years.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yep, actually the hottest team in baseball now. The indicators have been there that they could play well. I can't believe how improved our pitching is this year. We've dropped our team ERA by over a run when compared to last year's team ERA. We finished last in the league a year ago and are right in the middle of the pack this year. Amazing improvement for just one off-season.

Bats are finally waking up as well. Even Alex Gordon has come alive. They're going to have some monster crowds out at Kauffman Stadium this weekend. Friday night will likely be sold out and the weekend games and fireworks should draw well too. Hopefully the rain doesn't stop our run tonight.

I didn't post for fear of jynixing so I blame both of you (mostly Mizzou ), for this current skid. And it has nothing to do with a starting pitcher ERA that has to be around 6 or 7 during problem stretch.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by TroyF

If they were to do it, it'd be worse than watching them lead wire to wire. Not only would we be forced to follow their comeback on a daily basis, Clemens would move into God like status. The Summer of Bonds and Clemens. I'd be sick to my stomach. It just can't happen, can it?

Ew... I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

SI

[Ksyrup]

I hope not. The difference between the Twins and the Yankees is that the Twins have a bunch of younger guys. It's possible, but guys like Damon, Giambi, etc., are physically not in a place where they can turn it around easily. I think this is the Yankees team we all thought we'd see a few years ago, but never believed would happen.

I'm hoping for the worst-case scenario like Olney wrote about a few days ago...Steinbrenner snaps, fires Cashman, brings in a crappy GM who is under pressure to win right away, they sign a bunch of older guys, and the cycle continues for a few more seasons. I doubt that will happen, so I'm just going to enjoy this while it lasts.

[sterlingice]

Balk-o-rama

SI

[sterlingice]

Holy crap, that was kindof fun to watch even if I'd rather have not seen the Mets win.

SI

[Karlifornia]

Armando Benitez makes me sad.

[Ksyrup]

That was bizarre. Almost like watching a little league game.

And in other news, Ervin Santana has given up just 1 run in 7 innings...at home, of course.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I hope not. The difference between the Twins and the Yankees is that the Twins have a bunch of younger guys. It's possible, but guys like Damon, Giambi, etc., are physically not in a place where they can turn it around easily. I think this is the Yankees team we all thought we'd see a few years ago, but never believed would happen.

I'm hoping for the worst-case scenario like Olney wrote about a few days ago...Steinbrenner snaps, fires Cashman, brings in a crappy GM who is under pressure to win right away, they sign a bunch of older guys, and the cycle continues for a few more seasons. I doubt that will happen, so I'm just going to enjoy this while it lasts.

If they fail to make the playoffs, I don't see Cashman or Torre staying. I'm sure with every loss the Tampa group's voices are getting louder and louder for Steinbrenner. I'm amazed that the only move made thus far is firing the strength and conditioning coach.

I still think this is a team that will end up within a couple games of .500. People can say its hindsight, but as you say, this is the team a lot of people were expecting at some point but just couldn't imagine the Yankees falling this far.

Also, judging from Clemens stuff in the minors, he's going to have to get a lot better or American League hitters are going to tear him apart. BP measured his value over what Igawa would give them as 1.5-2 wins from the time he's called up. Hard to believe, but considering we haven't seen Clemens in the AL since '03 its difficult to think he'll have anywhere near the success he had in the NL.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I hope not. The difference between the Twins and the Yankees is that the Twins have a bunch of younger guys. It's possible, but guys like Damon, Giambi, etc., are physically not in a place where they can turn it around easily. I think this is the Yankees team we all thought we'd see a few years ago, but never believed would happen.

I'm hoping for the worst-case scenario like Olney wrote about a few days ago...Steinbrenner snaps, fires Cashman, brings in a crappy GM who is under pressure to win right away, they sign a bunch of older guys, and the cycle continues for a few more seasons. I doubt that will happen, so I'm just going to enjoy this while it lasts.

I don't think that's even in doubt if they continue the collapse and miss the playoffs. I think everyone goes. Mattingly may be the only one left after the fallout happens. Steinbrenner is liable to go nuts and increase the payroll to 300 million next year, gutting the organization in the process.

That's why they just can't get hot and win 96 games. I honestly can't think of anything worse in sports than watching them go nuts the second half. I'd rather watch the Raiders win Super Bowls, Duke win basketball titles and the Lakers rule the NBA again. . . all at the same time than to see the Yankees make a huge second half push.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I didn't post for fear of jynixing so I blame both of you (mostly Mizzou ), for this current skid. And it has nothing to do with a starting pitcher ERA that has to be around 6 or 7 during problem stretch.

SI

My bad. I knew we'd slide back to losing, but man this has been REAL ugly lately. I'll keep my mouth shut next time the Royals go on a winning streak.

[Butter]

The Reds win 2 straight. They're on the comeback trail! WOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

[Crapshoot]

Can we take Armando back out and shoot him?

[Brillig]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Can we take Armando back out and shoot him?

Oh please. If we could do that, don't you think someone would have done it already?

[Ramzavail]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Can we take Armando back out and shoot him?

Captain Meltdown strikes again.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Can we take Armando back out and shoot him?

You have to understand how great it was for Mets fans that Benitez was the one that imploded last night. Thats 4 years of frustrations that suddenly don't seem quite as bad.

[terpkristin]

Mauer's return delayed...
"Twins still hoping Mauer can return on Friday"
MINNEAPOLIS -- Minnesota Twins catcher Joe Mauer's return from the disabled list has been delayed.
The reigning AL batting champion, who was hitting .353 when he strained his left quadriceps earlier this month, showed up sore on Wednesday for the second straight day.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2887537

/tk

[Jas_lov]

So i think A-Rod just called "I got it" on a fly ball except he was the baserunner. Two of Toronto's infielders let the ball fall, a run scored, and they were pissed at A-Rod. I think it's awesome if he did, but the announcers seemed to think it was poor sportsmanship. Is it really that bad and why don't more people do this? I don't think it's against the rules and he's just doing anything to get a must needed win. I think it's a heads up play and he should be praised for it, but I'm sure he'll be criticized because he's A-Rod. This is nothing like slapping Arroyo's glove a couple years ago because that is against the rules. Good play A-Rod.

[ISiddiqui]

Well, it can easily be deemed baserunner interference:

http://www.cheatersguidetobaseball.c...5/23/i-got-it/

In the bottom of the sixth with UT leading 5-0, Peoples stood on third base with two outs. Chance Wheeless popped up along the third-base line near home plate, and Missouri catcher Trevor Coleman, his back to third, called for the ball.

So did Peoples, who was running toward home.

“I thought, ‘I’ll give it a shot,’” Peoples said. “I didn’t know it was that illegal.”

Coleman cleared out, believing an infielder was behind him. The ball dropped to the turf, and bounced foul. Home-plate umpire Ken Eldridge called Peoples for interference, and the inning ended. Coleman, after collecting his catcher’s mask, barked at Peoples.

“I couldn’t really understand him, but I’m sure he had a few choice words,” Peoples said.

[Jas_lov]

Yeah, but I don't see it as interference anywhere in the MLB Official Rules. And apparently A-Rod said "Mine." I still like the play and I thought this was more common around the league so I was just surprised at the announcers saying it was Bush League.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

So i think A-Rod just called "I got it" on a fly ball except he was the baserunner. Two of Toronto's infielders let the ball fall, a run scored, and they were pissed at A-Rod. I think it's awesome if he did, but the announcers seemed to think it was poor sportsmanship. Is it really that bad and why don't more people do this? I don't think it's against the rules and he's just doing anything to get a must needed win. I think it's a heads up play and he should be praised for it, but I'm sure he'll be criticized because he's A-Rod. This is nothing like slapping Arroyo's glove a couple years ago because that is against the rules. Good play A-Rod.

A heads up play? It's bush league plain and simple. I wish he had another AB coming so they could put a fastball in his ear. If it was a heads up play guys would do it all the time, you NEVER see that happen. Bush league.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Yeah, but I don't see it as interference anywhere in the MLB Official Rules. And apparently A-Rod said "Mine." I still like the play and I thought this was more common around the league so I was just surprised at the announcers saying it was Bush League.

Not everything is spelled out precisely. Some things are subject to interpretation, such as calling out "I got it" or "Mine" in order to confuse the defense being interference.

And yeah, it is a bush league play.

[sterlingice]

Man, Gil Meche with another awesome game and no run support.

SI

[Chief Rum]

Ping: dawgfan

It looks like neither of us will be wanting to use tonight's game as an example of our young pitcher's quality. So much for a pitcher's duel.

At least it's a fun game to watch.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

A heads up play? It's bush league plain and simple. I wish he had another AB coming so they could put a fastball in his ear. If it was a heads up play guys would do it all the time, you NEVER see that happen. Bush league.

You're a little biased, but are you saying that if anyone besides A-Rod did this that it wouldn't be construed this way? Hasn't trickery in baseball been a common thing forever? Stealing signs, hidden ball trick, and I'm not so sure that this NEVER happens. I think A-Rod actually said "Ha" or something like that.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Man, Gil Meche with another awesome game and no run support.

SI

Damn, tires out at 100 pitches and gives up a run. Now the O's tack on 2 more and it's probably over.

SI

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

You're a little biased, but are you saying that if anyone besides A-Rod did this that it wouldn't be construed this way? Hasn't trickery in baseball been a common thing forever? Stealing signs, hidden ball trick, and I'm not so sure that this NEVER happens. I think A-Rod actually said "Ha" or something like that.

Stealing signs and hidden ball trick don't run the risk of player injury. Confusing two players going after a pop-fly or fly ball can be dangerous and it should be illegal. If I'm Toronto next time I see A-Rod I'm putting a fastball near his chin.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Stealing signs and hidden ball trick don't run the risk of player injury. Confusing two players going after a pop-fly or fly ball can be dangerous and it should be illegal. If I'm Toronto next time I see A-Rod I'm putting a fastball near his chin.

How is it dangerous? If anything they both back away and the ball drops. There wouldn't be a collision between the two players because both players think the other is going to catch it. The ball was hit right where the Toronto 3rd baseman was standing and he was directly under it so why would the shortstop be running all the way over to his right to call him off? I think the 3rd baseman was a little embarassed that he was tricked so easily and let his frustrations out and his teammates and manager defended him. If this had happened to A-Rod everyone would be laughing at him and it wouldn't be an issue.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

How is it dangerous? If anything they both back away and the ball drops. There wouldn't be a collision between the two players because both players think the other is going to catch it. The ball was hit right where the Toronto 3rd baseman was standing and he was directly under it so why would the shortstop be running all the way over to his right to call him off? I think the 3rd baseman was a little embarassed that he was tricked so easily and let his frustrations out and his teammates and manager defended him. If this had happened to A-Rod everyone would be laughing at him and it wouldn't be an issue.

Doing it once, in that case, isn't dangerous because a players first reaction is going to be to back off. If it ever became more common it would cause major issues with communication when multiple players are going after a ball and does risk injury. So you drill A-Rod once and make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Doing it once, in that case, isn't dangerous because a players first reaction is going to be to back off. If it ever became more common it would cause major issues with communication when multiple players are going after a ball and does risk injury. So you drill A-Rod once and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Ok, there's issues with communication anyway when multiple players are going after a ball. I don't think it should be illegal, but if Toronto thinks it was dirty then they can drill him next game. No problem with that. The Yankees will just drill someone back and it will be solved. A-Rod was praised for his hard slide into 2nd on Pedroia which could have caused injury so I don't see this as any different. It's a legit play.

[Terps]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Man, Gil Meche with another awesome game and no run support.

SI

I know how that goes. Bedard's win tonight was his only one in May despite a 1.71 ERA for the month.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Ok, there's issues with communication anyway when multiple players are going after a ball. I don't think it should be illegal, but if Toronto thinks it was dirty then they can drill him next game. No problem with that. The Yankees will just drill someone back and it will be solved. A-Rod was praised for his hard slide into 2nd on Pedroia which could have caused injury so I don't see this as any different. It's a legit play.

Exactly, there's already communication issues so anything thats going to compound things and put any doubt as to whether someone is legitimately calling them off is dangerous.

I've never seen a hard slide ending with a player being taken off on a stretcher and spending several days in a hospital. Anything that potentially increases the chances of a collision in the outfield should be illegal. It was cheap, I hope Toronto takes care of it.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Ping: dawgfan

It looks like neither of us will be wanting to use tonight's game as an example of our young pitcher's quality. So much for a pitcher's duel.

At least it's a fun game to watch.

Bleah. This was a critical game for the M's if they wanted to remain a legit contender for the AL West. Being 5.5 back is a lot worse than being 3.5 back. And even though there will some side benefits to the M's dropping out of contention (Bavasi and Hargrove will surely be gone if that happens), there's also a big negative - it also likely means Ichiro will refuse to re-sign with the M's. July 31st is going to loom like a black cloud for this team if they aren't a realistic contender, as the team will have to make a very difficult choice - trade Ichiro to try and get something more than just a compensation pick, or roll the dice and see if they can manage to re-sign him (unlikely - he's sick of losing).

Felix has awesome stuff, but when he isn't commanding his fastball well and isn't mixing his pitches he can get hurt badly. Kudos to the Angels for doing as much damage as they did, but that wasn't Felix's best game. Ditto for Weaver. I think he's a better pitcher than his numbers show so far this year (though not as good as last year's numbers).

[Crapshoot]

Yeah, more power to Felix and all, but Weaver isn't close to the pitcher that Felix is. IMO, Felix may be the only pitcher in baseball I'd take over Lincecum (contracts, salary, control and all being part of the consideration)

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Yeah, more power to Felix and all, but Weaver isn't close to the pitcher that Felix is. IMO, Felix may be the only pitcher in baseball I'd take over Lincecum (contracts, salary, control and all being part of the consideration)

Lincecum has electric stuff for sure. It'd be good for the game if they can both stay healthy, and for Liriano to return to health and his dominant stuff of last year.

Lots of very promising young pitchers in the game right now...