It's Gone! 2004-2006 NHL Offseason and Lockout Thread

[sterlingice]

God knows the other major sports leagues like the NBA would never stoop to that level. So, while I'm shamelessly bashing them, for those of us without Toronto Star registration, where do the Hawks rank?

SI

[henry296]

There is also a story, I think from Edmonton that suggests that might use the last 3 years instead of last 3 years. I read that in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette this morning.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

God knows the other major sports leagues like the NBA would never stoop to that level. So, while I'm shamelessly bashing them, for those of us without Toronto Star registration, where do the Hawks rank?

There was no full list. My guess is the Hawks would have three balls (out of 60). The Rangers and Blue Jackets have four. Teams like Toronto and Detroit have one.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

There was no full list. My guess is the Hawks would have three balls (out of 60). The Rangers and Blue Jackets have four. Teams like Toronto and Detroit have one.

imagine if Crosby ends up in Columbus

harharhar

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

imagine if Crosby ends up in Columbus

harharhar

While the NHL wouldn't like it, it would be great for Columbus. Following Rick Nash's performance in the World Championships the last few weeks, adding Crosby to that team would be grand.

[Karim]

I hope he goes to a place where they care about hockey and appreciate what they get. That, and NOT EDMONTON!

[Maple Leafs]

Hmm... what better way to ensure a star player winds up with the Rangers than to put him on the Oilers until he develops?

[Karim]

Hopefully that won't happen anymore when they start playing again...

[klayman]

ML gets a for bashing our free trade system with the rangers.


Karim gets a for being a flames fan.

And HB gets a for, uh...well he didn't really do anything wrong, but I'm sure he'll earn it in the future.

That is all.

[TurnerONU22]

Yeah, of course being a Blue Jackets fan, I'm excited at the best chance to get Crosby under any system that's been rumored. Imagine for the top PP having Crosby, Nash and Zherdev together, that would have to be one of the best PP lines in the league, and with Nash being the oldest at 21.

Of course, if the Jackets get Crosby, they need to go trade for Cory Stillman, and have the Crosby-Stillman-Nash line.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by klayman

ML gets a for bashing our free trade system with the rangers.


Karim gets a for being a flames fan.

And HB gets a for, uh...well he didn't really do anything wrong, but I'm sure he'll earn it in the future.

That is all.

Oh, I'll earn it Oiler boy... I'll earn it.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by henry296

There is also a story, I think from Edmonton that suggests that might use the last 3 years instead of last 3 years. I read that in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette this morning.

[henry296]

Originally Posted by ice4277

I can't type. The Toronto Sun report says it will be based on the last 4 years. Another possibility is the past 3 years only. This helps the Penguins since they made the playoffs in 2000-1.

[RPI-Fan]

"Progress" this weekend. Looks like some of the things bogging them down (number-crunching) may be starting to get plowed through. Both sides saying they will continue to meet every single week until they have a deal.

I'm as pissed as anyone that these fuckers skipped the season, but they seem to finally be showing a true commitment to a deal. Now I do have to ask, if you're willing to meet every week now, why weren't you in the end of January and February???

~rpi-fan

[Karim]

I'm trying NOT to be optimistic because I've gotten my hopes up before. In that vain, I heard Thursday's meeting ended badly (as usual).

The only reason they're meeting seems to be (from what I've heard) that American advertisers have indicated their money is going elsewhere if they don't get a deal soon.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Karim

I'm trying NOT to be optimistic because I've gotten my hopes up before. In that vain, I heard Thursday's meeting ended badly (as usual).

The only reason they're meeting seems to be (from what I've heard) that American advertisers have indicated their money is going elsewhere if they don't get a deal soon.

Where'd you hear that about Thursday?

The main news outlets (Yahoo!, TSN) that I was reading from, indicated that Thursday didn't make much progress, but today there were actually was some movement.

I do agree that the sponsors are having a noticeable affect on negotiations. I really don't care how, though -- just get it done. The sponsor thing seems to jive with what that hockey rumors site says, also.

[Karim]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Where'd you hear that about Thursday?

I listen to a lot of sources so I can't be sure but I think it was someone on TSN. Nothing I've read today corroborates that though. The extensive meetings were just accountants going through team-by-team financials - grunt work that could have been done last summer.

There is momentum now; let's just hope they continue.

[Karim]

ESPN has not picked up its rights option which would have paid the NHL $60 million. This isn't shocking as it was expected that ESPN will want some hockey on ESPN2 at a much reduced price.

[TazFTW]

Is the lockout close to being over?

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=126559&hubName=nhl

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...1/1064644.html

[RPI-Fan]

Adamant since the beginning that ownership was cooking the books, the PA and the league have been working on a joint review. It's the kind of rudimentary work that should have been done a year ago and it will reveal what every party but the NHLPA has long accepted -- that a few wealthy clubs, including the Maple Leafs, Philadelphia Flyers and New York Rangers -- make good money. Another handful come close.

Two-thirds of the league, meanwhile, is in the red.

This sums things up pretty well, I think.

However, the good news is there is the potential, however slight, for something BIG to come out of Thursday's meeting.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm just gonna ignore all this until there's a signed agreement. Like a great man once said, "There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee...that says, fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me...you can't get fooled again."

In semi-related news, I forgot to mention that I actually flew out to Vienna to watch hockey. I caught the semi-final games: Canada/Russia, Czech/Swedes and the Bronze Medal game (Russia/Swedes) and gold medal game (Czech/Canada). It was a great weekend. I was wrecked for days, but here's a minor report:

1. Ovechkin looked amazing. He's fast. Fiesty. And has a great shot. He is as advertized. He pulled an amazing move on Matty Norstrom, totally undressed him, blew by him along the right board and blasted into the top corner.

2. Malkin (Pittsburgh) looks very good too. He's a big, big young kid. He was playing on a line with Ovechkin and fit in.

3. Team Russia. In the four games I saw team Russia were the best. Canada were lucky to get that big 4-0 lead early in the semi-final game. There were a couple of questionable calls that went Canada's way. After that they were just holding on for dear life while Russia attacked again and again. Russia has a bright future. Their team is very young and very fast. Their pointmen were pretty pathetic, so they will have to work on that. Kovalchuk was really off his game.

4. Nash and Thornton. It was a break-out tourney for these two. I think playing together all year really helped, but it's good to see Canada start switching gears and going with some younger guys.

5. Zetterberg. He was the best player for Sweden by far. Granted the Swedes were missing pretty much all of their top stars, but he was excellent. With he and Datsyuk in the fold, the Wings should be in decent shape.

6. The Czechs. They played great, smart, well-organzied hockey. They totally shutdown Canada in the gold medal game. The limited their chances and Vokoun controlled basically all the rebounds. Jagr seemed to be playing back at a level close to where he once was. I doubt that will last.

[General Mike]

When is Canada Day?

[henry296]

Originally Posted by General Mike

When is Canada Day?

July 1st, my birthday.

[RPI-Fan]

Rumor has it something may happen TOMORROW.

[Karim]

The Flames left a message on my answering machine announcing a meeting for ticket holders with the team's President. Considering I haven't heard anything from them since last year's playoffs, I take this as a good sign.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Rumor has it something may happen TOMORROW.

As much as I hope so, I'll believe it when I see it.

[General Mike]

fool me once, shame on you
fool me twice, shame on me

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by General Mike

fool me once, shame on you
fool me eightice, shame on me

fixed that for you

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by General Mike

fool me once, shame on you
fool me twice, shame on me

What? Doesn't that saying go like this:

Fool me once... shame on...Shame on you...If fooled, you can't get fooled again.

[Joe Canadian]

Is anyone else really worried about the future of pro hockey in North America? Besides the long lay off there are so many things that are convincing me more and more that I may never watch a game of pro hockey ever again... I guess it will be Fog Devils games instead.

1. ESPN walked out of contract negotiations, days after declining the option year on their contract. Plus, does anyone else know if NBC's deal carries over for next year... even thought it wasn't much of a deal... You might as well kill and thoughts of getting more American fans now and be done with it.

2. There seems to be more and more talk about a prospective rival league called the IHA... While I have my favourite players, if they aren't playing in the NHL I won't watch them. I'm an NHL fan, not a hockey play fan... and I think alot of Canadians feel the same way.

3. I can understand the league wanting to tune the game with rule changes like:
- No-touch icing
- Bringing the old offsides rule back
- Triming goalie equipment
- No red line
- Shoot-out
... but the crap they are talking about with the shape and size of the nets, the blue ice surface, neon line colors, open-style game, etc. is absurd. They seem set on making the NHL some type of circus you'd only see on SpikeTV or something like that. Are they really prepared to completly change the game of hockey and make it a joke, just to attract a few fans... that won't be anything but WWE-type casual fans?

As it stands now... if any of the absurd rules are picked up... I'm done with the NHL. I'm perfectly happy buying season tickets for the new St. John's QMJHL team, where hockey is still hockey.

[General Mike]

I hate no touch icing, but surprisingly I actually like the concept of the blue ice with orange lines, if it makes the game easier for the casual fan to follow on TV.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The white ice is killer on TV productions. White is by far the hardest color to make look good on TV. It's usually too bright or too dark, the contrast is a pain in the ass. A different color, while looking odd at first, may help.

I am not in favor of changing the net size. A bad idea. It's not necessary. I think changing the size of goalie equipment will do what they want.

Before we start talking rules changes we need a league...

[DeToxRox]

Turning the entire game into something out of Boise State football is not something I think I'd enjoy.

[riz]

Blueish tint on the ice. Fine by me.
Smaller goalie gear. Good.
Weird new goals. Errr.... keep the basics of the game as they are.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by riz

Blueish tint on the ice. Fine by me.
Smaller goalie gear. Good.
Weird new goals. Errr.... keep the basics of the game as they are.

Agreed.

[General Mike]

34-36 Million? The NHLPA is the worst players association ever.

Report: NHL, NHLPA agree on cap formula

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by General Mike

34-36 Million? The NHLPA is the worst players association ever.

Report: NHL, NHLPA agree on cap formula

But from the sounds of the tsn article (but not the ESPN one), it's a team by team cap. What the heck does that mean?

SI

[TazFTW]

I don't see anything about a team by team cap. There's a $22 million minimum that teams must spend, a $34-36 million maximum and a luxury tax for teams that spend over the midway point.

[klayman]

yeah, the article just says the cap is based on team by team revenue. I would assume that means that a percentage of each team's revenue makes up the whole of the cap (ceiling and floor)

[Karim]

Despite the number of unknowns, here's an article that examines how the 30 teams are positioned within the potential confines of a new CBA:

http://www.calgarypuck.com/McGrath_060905.htm

[Honolulu_Blue]

By all accounts there's going to be a deal in the next two weeks or so. Once a deal is signed, it's going to be a very exciting time for hockey fans. We'll have the NHL draft (which by all accounts is a good one, the prize of course being Crosby). There is a boat-load of UFA's out there. There will be some teams scrambling to fill out their rosters and other teams scrambling to reduce their payrolls. Times they are a changin'.

Ideally I'd like to see the deal signed soon and a lot of this stuff take place in July/August. It would be a nice way to fill the sports gap between now and the start of football.

Some links:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=128726

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=128710

[Maple Leafs]

Sounds like there's an interesting discussion about cutting players without the buyout counting against the cap (which will be necessary for some teams to get under the limit). Both sides seem to agree that the old rule will still apply -- buyouts cost 2/3 of the total remaining deal. But the debate is over whether teams will be able to re-sign players they've cut.

The interesting thing is that this doesn't seem like an owners vs. players dispute, but rather players vs. players. Some guys want teams to be unable to resign their cuts, since in theory that would put pressure on teams not to cut certain guys. Other players would be more than willing to take a paycut after a buyout to resign, and don't want to be forced to change teams.

Theoretical question: what would happen if a team like the Leafs cut all of their signed players, then immediately resigned them to deals of the same length and at a value exactly equal to one-third of the original? The players would get the same amount of money over the course of the deal and would actually benefit by getting most of it sooner, while the team would reduce it's cap number by two-thirds in one shot.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Sounds like there's an interesting discussion about cutting players without the buyout counting against the cap (which will be necessary for some teams to get under the limit). Both sides seem to agree that the old rule will still apply -- buyouts cost 2/3 of the total remaining deal. But the debate is over whether teams will be able to re-sign players they've cut.

The interesting thing is that this doesn't seem like an owners vs. players dispute, but rather players vs. players. Some guys want teams to be unable to resign their cuts, since in theory that would put pressure on teams not to cut certain guys. Other players would be more than willing to take a paycut after a buyout to resign, and don't want to be forced to change teams.

Theoretical question: what would happen if a team like the Leafs cut all of their signed players, then immediately resigned them to deals of the same length and at a value exactly equal to one-third of the original? The players would get the same amount of money over the course of the deal and would actually benefit by getting most of it sooner, while the team would reduce it's cap number by two-thirds in one shot.

Maybe they could add a special provision for this year.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

By all accounts there's going to be a deal in the next two weeks or so. Once a deal is signed, it's going to be a very exciting time for hockey fans. We'll have the NHL draft (which by all accounts is a good one, the prize of course being Crosby). There is a boat-load of UFA's out there. There will be some teams scrambling to fill out their rosters and other teams scrambling to reduce their payrolls. Times they are a changin'.

Ideally I'd like to see the deal signed soon and a lot of this stuff take place in July/August. It would be a nice way to fill the sports gap between now and the start of football.

Some links:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=128726

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=128710

Should be exciting for the Hawks if they can avoid making stupid personnel decisions *crosses fingers, toes, arms, and legs*

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

By all accounts there's going to be a deal in the next two weeks or so. Once a deal is signed, it's going to be a very exciting time for hockey fans. We'll have the NHL draft (which by all accounts is a good one, the prize of course being Crosby). There is a boat-load of UFA's out there. There will be some teams scrambling to fill out their rosters and other teams scrambling to reduce their payrolls. Times they are a changin'.

Should be exciting for the Hawks if they can avoid making stupid personnel decisions *crosses fingers, toes, arms, and legs*

SI

[sovereignstar]

Who gets the #1 pick then?

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Should be exciting for the Hawks if they can avoid making stupid personnel decisions *crosses fingers, toes, arms, and legs*

SI

Good luck with that.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Who gets the #1 pick then?

I am not sure if it's 100% set in stone, but there is a system based on a couple of factors, e.g., over all record in the last few years, having had the #1 pick over all in the last few years, and playoff appearances. Once the system is set there will be some sort of lottery to determine order. That's my vague understanding. I think there are posts in this thread that have better details.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Should be exciting for the Hawks if they can avoid making stupid personnel decisions *crosses fingers, toes, arms, and legs*

SI

Well, you've got a new GM so he hasn't done anything stupid... yet.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I am not sure if it's 100% set in stone, but there is a system based on a couple of factors, e.g., over all record in the last few years, having had the #1 pick over all in the last few years, and playoff appearances. Once the system is set there will be some sort of lottery to determine order. That's my vague understanding. I think there are posts in this thread that have better details.

I'm not gonna go digging in this long-ass thread! Either way, what a year for such a lottery system. There are gonna be some pissed people in some front offices.

Who would bargain such an agreement?