2008-2009 College Basketball Thread......

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Like I said before, very frustrating team to follow.

On the other hand, at least they're good enough to be frustrating. Imagine having Georgia Tech & Tennessee as your two teams to follow this year. Watching them is like watching the Wizard of Oz, varying displays of no courage, no brains, and no heart. At least GT can claim a talent gap for some of their problems, the Vols don't have that excuse very often.

[sooner333]

cartman--Gentleman's bet on the game tonight? Texas is favored, but I'll go straight up.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

On the other hand, at least they're good enough to be frustrating. Imagine having Georgia Tech & Tennessee as your two teams to follow this year. Watching them is like watching the Wizard of Oz, varying displays of no courage, no brains, and no heart. At least GT can claim a talent gap for some of their problems, the Vols don't have that excuse very often.

I understand I am fortunate to be a UCLA fan, to follow such a great program. But that doesn't mean I have every right to my gripes about this team. For instance, UT and GT are normally both very good in football (GT is now, UT has been hsitorically). I wouldn't question you being upset at 8-4 seasons from major football teams of your schools there, but as a UCLA fan, I would have been thrilled to be 8-4 at just about any time since 1999. It's all perspective--we all have the right to be upset about how our team is doing in relation to how it should be doing.

Plus, today was about heart and getting it done when things aren't coming easy, and that, IMO, is inexcusable. That's about effort and desire, and you don't need good genetics or good basketball habits to get that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

But that doesn't mean I have every right to my gripes about this team.

Umm ... I wasn't questioning that.

I was very slightly offering a tiny sliver of perspective and otherwise mostly bitching about my own dismal state of men's hoops fan affairs.

And my women's hoops fan affairs ain't a whole lot better this year either, if anything they're even more like what you described.

[Radii]

Congrats to Maryland on an outstanding overtime win over North Carolina today with their postseason hopes quite likely on the line. Maryland withstood a Carolina run in the second half, and played outstanding in the final minute of regulation to erase a 6 point deficit. UNC didn't handle Maryland's press down the stretch very well.

UNC had a pretty major mental lapse in the final minute of overtime, trailing with 36 seconds left, the players on the court apparently didn't realize they needed to foul, allowing the clock to run down to 11 seconds before finally fouling an 85% free throw shooter.

Also, MAJOR kudos to Gary Williams for instructing Maryland to foul UNC in the final 10 seconds of a 3 point game instead of just defending and letting Ellington try a game-tying 3 pointer. You don't see that nearly often enough and Maryland executed perfectly.

I'm disappointed that UNC picks up their 3rd conference loss, I would have liked to have seen them lock up the ACC Regular season before their final game vs Duke. That seems less likely now. But really I dont think UNC played bad today, Maryland just came up huge in a critical situation at home for them.

[Noop]

Florida State is now in second place in the ACC. Hopefully GT, VT, or Duke can beat UNC and allow the Noles to claim first place, I doubt it happens but a guy can dream.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Noop

Florida State is now in second place in the ACC. Hopefully GT, VT, or Duke can beat UNC and allow the Noles to claim first place, I doubt it happens but a guy can dream.

If FSU can win their last 4 games they absolutely deserve first place heh. at BC, vs Clemson, at Duke, vs Virginia Tech. FSU has talent but if they win those final 4 it'll be a miracle. UNC having 3 losses makes the ACC a lot more exciting since there's still 4 teams with 4 losses, that's for sure.


Carolina's game at Virginia Tech next week is going to be a lot like tonight's game I imagine. A road game against a bubble team that has talent but is inconsistent and desperately needs another quality win.

[Radii]

OU/Texas has been great.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Radii

Also, MAJOR kudos to Gary Williams for instructing Maryland to foul UNC in the final 10 seconds of a 3 point game instead of just defending and letting Ellington try a game-tying 3 pointer. You don't see that nearly often enough and Maryland executed perfectly.

Interestingly, the internet fans have been giving similar props to Sid for doing the same thing at the end of State's win against UVa (another blown 15-plus point lead!). Seems to be a trendy thing to do now.

With what's happened so far, the ACC is just getting murkier. Right now, it looks like five definites as FSU continues to pile up wins. BC slipped back into the "maybe" pile again with their loss at Miami, while I think VT is toast now. Maryland was thought to be done, but with the UNC win, they suddenly have to be talked about considering their early-season demolition of Michigan State is on the books (then again, so's that ghastly loss to Morgan State).

BC is in the best shape for that sixth bid. They do have the Duke and Carolina wins, but they've now been swept by Miami and still have those ugly non-conference losses, so it's a little trickier to justify them.

Miami did win, but I think they're in too deep a hole at this point. Being 10th in the conference this late in the season isn't going to cut it. If it were, then State should also be considered since they're in ninth and have a similar overall record. No one's talking about State being an at-large candidate so I think it's also a dead-letter for Miami.

Looking back over it all, I think it's going to be difficult for the ACC to get more than five in right now and definitely not more than six (barring ACC tournament chaos). Yes, the SEC and the mid-majors are struggling, but nobody in the muck that's the middle of the ACC is doing anything much right now to assert claims to possible bids lost by other conferences at the moment.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Looking back over it all, I think it's going to be difficult for the ACC to get more than five in right now and definitely not more than six (barring ACC tournament chaos).

Yep. All these bubble teams have had their chances, but instead of a couple teams stepping up they're just all beating each other out of the tournament. I don't think any of them have an impressive enough resume to get in with an 8-8 conference record.



How do you feel about NC State's prospects now for next year?

Looking through their schedule... 5 point loss at Davidson, 3 point loss to Marquette, 2 point loss at Florida, OT loss to Va Tech, they've won 4 of their last 6 and should be an NIT team... maybe this year hasn't been as bad as it seemed like a few weeks ago? Any hope that Lowe has them heading in the right direction?

[sooner333]

That was a pretty great game. It sucked to lose Blake for the second half, but the team played in a great way without him and Warren did his best to take over. Would have liked to win, but I don't feel nearly as awful as usual after losing...especially to them.

[dawgfan]

Nice bounce-back win for Washington today. USC is arguably a worse matchup for the Huskies than UCLA, but they overcame a rare off-night from Justin Dentmon and only 6 points from Jon Brockman to get the win, their first in the Galen Center. Combined with WSU's big upset of UCLA and Oregon State knocking off Cal, the Huskies are back to a 1.5 game lead on UCLA and Cal, and a 1 game lead on ASU (pending tomorrow's result).

Washington likely clinched their tournament berth today, and took a big step closer to their first regular season conference title since 1985. What a difference a year makes...

[JeeberD]

Fucking Miners. Fucking Memphis...

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Fucking Miners. Fucking Memphis...

Yeah...I feel ya...Fucking Stanford, too. I'm beginning to think Mike Montgomery was the only reason we had a team worth rooting for in the first place.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

So the table is set. MU/KU/OU all have a shot now at the Big 12 championship. What a finishing run this schedule provides.......

Feb. 23 Kansas at Oklahoma
Mar. 1 Missouri at Kansas
Mar. 4 Oklahoma at Missouri

Anybody can win it with a 2-0 record in the above games assuming they take care of business in their other games.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Radii

How do you feel about NC State's prospects now for next year?

Honestly, I have no idea. Gonzalez, Tracy Smith, and CJ Williams have come a long way in the past few weeks, giving some indication that this staff is getting through and teaching the players. We've also got a strong recruiting class coming in and are still trying to lure John Wall (though I can't imagine why since he's a one-and-doner and I wouldn't want him on my team especially after what happened to the team with the last one-and-doner in JJ Hickson).

The development at the point has clearly become what Sid will be about in my opinion. His first year he had senior Engin Atsur at point and Atsur was clearly the difference-maker in getting that team into the NIT (the team collapsed without him when he went out with injury in the Michigan game that year, though they did win that one in particular). Last year, with Degand and Gonzalez at point, the team was totally out of sync and with Hickson taking time from upperclassmen who weren't very gracious about giving it up, it made for a perfect storm of bad basketball and bad chemistry. Now, the team seems to be much more cohesive and Gonzalez has really taken off the last few weeks (yesterday's first half and the UNC second half aside) and it's shown in the results (wins in three of the last four games and a competitive game on the road at UNC which is a damn sight better than what happened last year). If the new guys can come in and pick up the slack from the graduates and mesh well, there's every chance for an upper division finish, but it's still a very cautious optimism. State was projected for big things in Sid's second year and everything blew up on them, so it will be interesting to see if this next team will be different from that team in handling the increased expectations.

Originally Posted by Radii

Looking through their schedule... 5 point loss at Davidson, 3 point loss to Marquette, 2 point loss at Florida, OT loss to Va Tech, they've won 4 of their last 6 and should be an NIT team... maybe this year hasn't been as bad as it seemed like a few weeks ago? Any hope that Lowe has them heading in the right direction?

Right now, Lowe's opinion is only as good as his last game result (which is true of many fanbases, but State's is particularly volatile).

At this point, I think the NIT's pretty much a given as they really can't finish below .500 at this point and should be able to bag another couple of wins to remove any doubt.

[Eaglesfan27]

Renardo Sidney commits to USC but I can't decide if this is good news or not.

[molson]

It'll be interesting to see how they sort out the Big East.

Syracuse probably saved itself by playing a decent non conference schedule for once. Their conference-game-only RPI is 49, but their non-conference RPI is 4 (wins against Kansas, Memphis, Florida).

A team like Georgetown seems easily talented enough to be an tournament team (and better than any of the mid-major bubble teams), but they'd have to have pulled upset after upset after upset in the Big East to have a chance. They've played 11 games against the RPI top 50 - compared to teams like Utah State who have only played 2, or Butler, who's only played 3.

I'm not saying Georgetown deserves to be there, but it makes me a little less sympathetic to a team like Butler, who loses back-to-back to Loyola (IL), and Milwaukee.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

So the table is set. MU/KU/OU all have a shot now at the Big 12 championship. What a finishing run this schedule provides.......

Feb. 23 Kansas at Oklahoma
Mar. 1 Missouri at Kansas
Mar. 4 Oklahoma at Missouri

Anybody can win it with a 2-0 record in the above games assuming they take care of business in their other games.

All starts with the game on Big Monday this week

SI

[Radii]

Originally Posted by molson

It'll be interesting to see how they sort out the Big East.

I'm assuming the top 7 are in, though Syracuse and West Virginia could theoretically still play their way out if they bomb down the stretch.

Cincinnati and Providence have very unimpressive resumes and need to do more than just finish at .500 in the Big East(or need an impressive tournament run) to get in IMO.

A team like Georgetown...They've played 11 games against the RPI top 50 - compared to teams like Utah State who have only played 2, or Butler, who's only played 3.

Definite double edged sword there. 11 games vs the RPI top 50 makes your NCAA Tournament Case fairly easy to make. Go 3-8 in those games(as georgetown has) and you're probably not going to make the tournament. Go 6-5 and you're likely in.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Renardo Sidney commits to USC but I can't decide if this is good news or not.

Well, if he needs to go to a school willing to pay him, look the other way when he and/or his handlers get in trouble, "help" him out with out the academic side of things and let him play in a major conference with a respected coach, he couldn't choose a better school.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like Blake Griffin probably won't start tonight vs. Kansas and it's questionable whether he'll even play in the game.

From ESPN.com..........

NORMAN, Okla. -- Preseason All-America Blake Griffin's status is uncertain for No. 2 Oklahoma's game against Kansas (No. 18 ESPN/USA Today, No. 15 AP) on Monday night after he sustained a concussion in a loss to Texas.

The Oklahoman, citing unnamed sources, reported Sunday that an MRI of Griffin's head was clear and that his condition was improving.

Sooners coach Jeff Capel said Griffin would be held out of practice Sunday, but he won't know until game time whether his star player will be able to play. Juan Pattillo or Ryan Wright would likely start in place of Griffin.

Griffin averages 22 points and an NCAA-best 13.8 rebounds and leads the nation with 22 double-doubles this season. He was hurt Saturday night when he caught an inadvertent shot to the face from the open hand of Dexter Pittman, Texas' 300-pound center.

Griffin's limited play against the Longhorns ended a streak of eight-straight double-doubles, including a 40-point, 23-rebound game in his previous outing -- a 21-point win over Texas Tech.

Griffin sat out the second half and appeared dazed at times as he sat on the bench during the Sooners' 73-68 loss.

(Information from The Associated Press and ESPN.com's Andy Katz was used in this report. )

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yikes. Just reported here in KC that Blake Griffin will not play tonight against Kansas. HUGE opportunity for KU to get a leg up on the regular season championship with a road win tonight.

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yikes. Just reported here in KC that Blake Griffin will not play tonight against Kansas. HUGE opportunity for KU to get a leg up on the regular season championship with a road win tonight.

For a "share" of the Big 12 regular season championship. Doesn't matter, I think we win anyway, but obviously, it's in doubt.

[Karlifornia]

Sitting out for a concussion in a basketball game? You better get on that floor, son.

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Sitting out for a concussion in a basketball game? You better get on that floor, son.

Oh, he wants to play. The trainer and doctor are the one's who make the call and no coach is going to go against what they have to say.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yikes. Just reported here in KC that Blake Griffin will not play tonight against Kansas. HUGE opportunity for KU to get a leg up on the regular season championship with a road win tonight.

Since Oklahoma is in, the remaining games mean very little compared to getting Griffin healthy.

[cartman]

I'm wondering of Griffin suffered a concussion in a practice, and he aggravated it during the Texas game. The replays of the contact with Pittman don't look bad at all.

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by cartman

I'm wondering of Griffin suffered a concussion in a practice, and he aggravated it during the Texas game. The replays of the contact with Pittman don't look bad at all.

They didn't show it on TV, but Capel indicated another play (which Wilbon referred to on PTI) where Balbay's elbow got the back of Blake's head. Also, if it was Pittman, a hit to the nose can cause more damage than a similar hit to other areas (so say people who have more medical knowledge than I do). But yeah, Pittman hit him hard enough to get a bleeding nose, but it didn't look like it would have caused too much and certainly didn't look intentional or anything of the like.

[sterlingice]

I'm not sure what this game means now.

If Griffin were playing, I wouldn't give us much of a chance so a close game would mean we were better than I thought. As it is, if we win- it's a nice road win but means a lot less without Griffin in the lineup. If we lose- we don't know how good OU without Griffin is but that makes the Sooners look that much better.

SI

[sterlingice]

Way to play no defense, KU

SI

[sterlingice]

This game just has a weird ebb and flow to it (and it's clear the announcers don't know the score): OU goes on a 20-2 run and then KU goes 18-0. Feels like one of those crazy tourney games.

SI

[cartman]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

This game just has a weird ebb and flow to it (and it's clear the announcers don't know the score): OU goes on a 20-2 run and then KU goes 18-0. Feels like one of those crazy tourney games.

SI

That's the way the game went in Austin the other night as well. Big runs back and forth.

[sterlingice]

This really is feeling like a tourney game

SI

[sterlingice]

Holy crap, it's raining threes!

SI

[MizzouRah]

Great game...

[sterlingice]

Holy crap! Again! From at least 25'!

SI

[MizzouRah]

Looks like Kansas has this wrapped up.

[sterlingice]

Fun game- still doesn't prove much with Griffin out.

Now for the long week and Mizzou at the Fieldhouse on Sunday.

SI

[sterlingice]

Ok, watching Sportscenter again- ice water in the veins from Collins. Those two threes were just sick- pure clutch and sweet looking.

SI

[sooner333]

Just got back. Collins is a heck of a player...to me a more polished version of Willie Warren. Aldrich also showed how good he is at rebounding, but OU relies on Griffin a lot for that, obviously so I only really know what I already knew about him.

At least we made the run at the end to get back by three a couple of times. I wish Cade Davis had made the two free throws, but it was nice to see the team pressure and cause some trouble for KU.

Gotta give it up to Bill Self in the driver's seat for a Big 12 title again. He's one heck of a coach...I really can't think of anyone I'd rather have right now in charge of my basketball team. He set the table for Weber at Illinois for a 2nd place finish and he's won one himself now.

[sterlingice]

It's a lot different game if Griffin plays. That said, you guys look really strong without the best player in the country. You're going to make some big noise come tourney time when he's back.

SI

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

It's a lot different game if Griffin plays. That said, you guys look really strong without the best player in the country. You're going to make some big noise come tourney time when he's back.

SI

Yeah, when he's out we have guys who can play. The inside isn't there as much. The thing is when Blake plays he's pretty much always on so having guys outside who are streaky aren't bad...you just find the hot hand and usually at least someone will be open. When he's not playing you're playing 5-on-5 so you're less likely to get that look outside. When you've got some inexperience like Wright and Patillo inside, you're going to look a little lost compared to Aldrich.

But, these two losses will be something the team can build on. Hopefully we can get back at you in OKC in two and a half weeks.

[sterlingice]

We'll see. Mizzou will definitely have their say. I think Texas is still lurking out there, too, as well as someone like K-State. Even Okie State has a chance to do some damage but pretty much every game they've done what's expected- they win and lose the games they're supposed to and on a neutral court, they should lose to all 5 of the previously mentioned teams.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sooner333

Collins is a heck of a player...to me a more polished version of Willie Warren.

I'd qualify that statement. He's a heckuva player when he puts his mind to it. He's been very inconsistant at times. He'll go on huge runs and then just disappear at other times. Definitely talented though, no question.

[DataKing]

I have to say I really enjoyed the KU-OU game last night, and not just for the obvious reason. I especially enjoyed it when it started raining 3's late in the game. Some truly clutch, downtown, in your face shooting from both teams. Griffin vs. Aldrich was a matchup I was really looking forward to seeing, however, and hopefully it'll happen in the Big 12 Tournament.

A couple of other notes/observations:

• His stretch of fantastic play late in the first half is an example of just how good Tyshawn Taylor can be someday. He's the next Mario Chalmers.
• No matter who you're rooting for, Willie Warren is just fun to watch. Mad athletic ability on that kid. He could become a truly dominant factor in the conference in a year or two.
• I'm quite impressed with Capel as both a coach and a recruiter. Griffin was an easy grab, with big brother already on the team, but he's definitely got the chops to bring in other talent and use them properly. I look for Oklahoma to remain a force in the conference as long as Capel is there.

[RedKingGold]

No love for Providence upsetting Pitt tonight? That win may go a long way into getting eight teams from the Big East in the tournament (UConn, Pitt, Marquette, Louisville, Nova', Syracuse, West Virginia, and Providence).

[Tigercat]

With the win against Florida tonight, LSU has already clinched a SEC regular season title. I don't think we are talented to make any real big noise in the NCAA tourney, and next year will be a very big rebuilding year. But I don't think I have seen a better college basketball coaching job ever than what Trent Johnson has done at LSU this year. And if he wins SEC coach of the year, which he probably will, he would have won coach of the year honors in three separate conferences. Will be interesting to see how good of a team he can build at LSU with the talent he will have access to in recruiting.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Renardo Sidney commits to USC but I can't decide if this is good news or not.

Merely a sidenote, but Sidney's commitment ceremony has to be one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen. Awful lot of work to do all that for a kid that hasn't even passed his standardized test yet.......

Renardo Sidney goes to great lengths to reveal choice of USC - Los Angeles Times

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Something's not right with Blake Griffin. They're reporting on KC sports radio that there's a pretty good chance he won't play this weekend. A mild injury shouldn't keep a player out for this length of time. Anyone know if he has a history of concussions that might be increasing the level of concern with his injury?