Werewolf LXIII - Fall of the Elementals (Game Over - Avatars Win!) - Page 17

st.cronin · 12-15-2007, 12:12 PM

Nothing to report from last night. I plan to vote for one of the following:

Mr. Wednesday
Jonathan Ezarik
jeheinz72

...unless somebody comes forward with something new.

Lathum · 12-15-2007, 12:15 PM

I am leaning towards Mr. Wed.

JE and Jheinze pretty much cleared each other.

Hoops still worries me, but I don't know why

st.cronin · 12-15-2007, 12:20 PM

I thought one of them cleared the other, but that it went just one way.

st.cronin · 12-15-2007, 12:23 PM

Here's my take on the remaining players:

Code:

2) hoopsguy		not sure, lean towards good
5) path12  		in my cot
6) Jonathan Ezarik	distrust
8) Lathum		not sure, lean towards good
10) Swaggs		not sure, lean towards good
11) st.cronin		elemental
12) jeheinz72		distrust
14) Mr. Wednesday	distrust

st.cronin · 12-15-2007, 12:25 PM

Of the Lathum, Swaggs, hoopsguy triumvirate I would rate them Lathum (highest trust), Swaggs (mid-level trust), and hoopsguy (lowest level of trust).

In other words, if I am convinced that Mr. W, je, and jh are all good, then I will probably end up voting for hoopsguy.

Swaggs · 12-15-2007, 12:26 PM

Really, the only person I feel rasonably good about is Lathum. The fact that I can verify his action on me from last night tells me that he, at least, did not kill Schmidty.

Hoops makes me nervous, as well. He wiggled out of the day 1 lynch and everyone else that was involved, as the leading vote getters that day (Pass and SnDvls) are now verified to be good. He and Clap also had an odd exchange at the end of yesterday, regarding hoops' vote, which stuck out to me. The only thing that makes me feel reasonably good about him is that, with so many powers floating around, it would seem like someone would have busted him by now if he were bad.

st.cronin · 12-15-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Really, the only person I feel rasonably good about is Lathum. The fact that I can verify his action on me from last night tells me that he, at least, did not kill Schmidty.

Hoops makes me nervous, as well. He wiggled out of the day 1 lynch and everyone else that was involved, as the leading vote getters that day (Pass and SnDvls) are now verified to be good. He and Clap also had an odd exchange at the end of yesterday, regarding hoops' vote, which stuck out to me. The only thing that makes me feel reasonably good about him is that, with so many powers floating around, it would seem like someone would have busted him by now if he were bad.

Can you point to the hoops/clap exchange, and expand on that?

Swaggs · 12-15-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Can you point to the hoops/clap exchange, and expand on that?

Yeah... let me look it up.

I reviewed most of the thread yesterday when I got home, so it may have stuck out to me more than it would have if it unfolded as it happened. And, also with the hindsight that Clap was a wolf.

Lathum · 12-15-2007, 12:32 PM

I am out for a while.

When I get back I neeed to remember to see who cleared who between Jheinze and JE.

Swaggs · 12-15-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Yes, that helps a lot. It is much clearer to me what happened.

Hmm, I have my doubts that you were the one performing the ritual on me Night 1 if your scan outright failed. Possible Saldana?

Swaggs, if/when you show up, have you had a ritual performed against you at any point this game?

Just saw this while reviewing...

Hoops, not until last night when Lathum blocked my action.

I suspect that may be due to the fact that I have been under scrutiny a bit, so the wolves may have thought it better to leave me alone and leave me as a lynch candidate.

Swaggs · 12-15-2007, 12:44 PM

Here is what I come up with after a brief scan.

Quite likely just hoops doing some thinking outloud, as he made a number of unrelated posts, as well. It was just something that seemed to stick out to me when I read through the last few hours of yesterday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

so the arguemtns against me are that I messed up last night, and didnt read the thread, and tonight, since hinze said nothgin usefull I voted for him, anythign meaningful? or am i realy gonna get lynched for not paying enough attention yesterday?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm OK with that as long as I'm not finding my way onto the Page 1 updates with a "death by trout - Elemental" next to my name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

thats gonna be my spot i fear!

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Since my vote is on the other guy I'm not the one you need to pursuade. However, I think the argument is that:
1.) We don't have any kind of vouch for you
2.) The power you have reported using didn't work, and is being reported differently than others who may have been blocked as well

With Cronin and Path, they knew their powers had been altered. Schmidty hasn't posted enough detail on his power being "stolen" to really compare notes with your story. I think if someone else had a similar experience to yours it would help your credibility a great deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

1) not my fault no one scanned me?
2) well I only get what Im told

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

For what it is worth, I'm intrigued that we haven't really pursued the whole "learn something from previous vote" strategy this game.

Day 1 - three way action with me, Pass, and SnDvls
Day 2 - Cronin, Swaggs, and SnDvls
Day 3 - MrW and Clap

I know that Day 1 was three Elementals, but most people probably can't be sure. Today we didn't really seem to consider Cronin or Swaggs.

We don't have much to show for voting records at this point if we whiff today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

damnit hoops you were supposed to help me!

{x} go AVS!

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Clap, what more do you want than me voting for the other guy? Sheesh.

I felt like we had a better twosome for this vote than I did yesterday based on the lack of verifiable actions by/against the people on the block. I'm glad it worked out, even if I was on the wrong side of the tally at the end of the day.

Swaggs · 12-15-2007, 12:47 PM

Thinking it through, I've got to give props to CW for this game. We may be one or two good moves away from winning it, but we are down to 8 people and I semi-trust Lathum and trust myself, at this point.

Hopefully someone made a good ID last night that can open things up a bit.

st.cronin · 12-15-2007, 12:52 PM

I'm not sure what, exactly, you think you're seeing there.

Swaggs · 12-15-2007, 12:52 PM

I'm checking out for a bit, too.

The whole RichRod/Michigan saga is making me think I need to spend some time away from the internets for a bit.

Swaggs · 12-15-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm not sure what, exactly, you think you're seeing there.

It just seemed like a lot of directed, one-on-one intereraction while I was reading it. As I said, it was an odd exchange, to me.

hoopsguy · 12-15-2007, 01:20 PM

OK, I used an action last night to protect Lathum. I actually send the order in saying that I was flip-flopping between Schmidty and Lathum, but went with Lathum because he was a more vocal player. My thought there was Schmidty was trusted after last night, but Lathum was also trusted by extension.

Someone did try to act against Lathum last night, using a spell that would have switched places with him. My power prevented this from happening. But I have no information on who tried to act against him.

Swaggs, I spent some time talking with Clap last night because he was around and posting. This is my first game playing with him and I was trying to get a measure of the guy. I even posted to that effect, and will be happy to pull that up as a reference if it helps you with your thought process on me.

I would find it very convenient to be cleared at this point but I'm OK with not being as long as we are continuing to learn more about other players.

hoopsguy · 12-15-2007, 09:29 PM

OK, guess people don't plan to talk until tomorrow.

st.cronin · 12-15-2007, 09:33 PM

The three people I wanted to hear from haven't logged on today, at all. That's the 2 J's and Mr. W.

st.cronin · 12-15-2007, 09:57 PM

VOTE MR. WEDNESDAY

I won't be around tomorrow.

Lathum · 12-15-2007, 10:19 PM

I can confirm I was protected last night and someone tried a spell on me.

I can't confirm it was Hoops but at this point I have to trust him.

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 10:41 AM

OK, four people who have reported from last night and four still to come:

Lathum - stopped Swaggs from using ability
Hoops - protected Lathum, someone tried to use spell on Lathum to switch places
Cronin - nothing to report
Swaggs - blocked from action

Path - ???
Jonathan - ???
Heinz - ???
MrW - ???

Cronin, if you do pop in at some point today I would like to talk a little bit about your actions this game. Going from memory, I know you were targeted by SnDvls Night 1, but I don't recall anything from Days 2 and 3 in terms of actions. My insights into you being blocked on Night 1 does not give me any info on what you were attempting and you haven't said what it was.

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Can you check those numbers? I show the following:

Clap - Cronin (557), JE (584), Lathum (681), MrW (708), Schmidty (728)
MrW - Hoops (617), Heinz (621), Clap (707), Path (724)
The now-dead Saldana - Swaggs (569)

Here is the final votes for Day 3.

Unless we had an avatar/avatar runoff, there should be good information here.

I'm on the wrong side of the vote with Heinz, Clap, and Path. We all know about Clap at this point and I know about myself. So that leaves me with Heinz and Path to question today.

I'll feel better about this train of thought if we have something showing MrW to be an Elemental between now and the deadline. He stated he would be using a power on Night 3, so maybe that will help.

Mr. Wednesday · 12-16-2007, 12:36 PM

I did use my power. See CW's introduction to the day. No one interfered with me.

I suspect, if there are two (or more) avatars remaining, we may find one on each side of the vote yesterday.

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 01:08 PM

MrW, I have re-read the intro to the day and don't see anything called out as your action. So can you just say what your action was?

Mr. Wednesday · 12-16-2007, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

A louch belch is heard from behind you, and the drunk of the Elementals states, hey, I thought it was supposed to be the Sign of the Squid today!. It is however, not. The Sign of the Rhino is overhead.

Quote for emphasis.

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 03:45 PM

So, you invoked the day with your action from another day? And, it happens that the day we now have is the day that had not yet arrived?

I kind of figured the part you bolded is what you would suggest was your power, but I'm trying to figure out what good that does as a power for another day or how that suggests you are an Elemental.

Lathum · 12-16-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

I can confirm that I was scanned last night, and I can also confirm that I'm an Elemental.

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

i gotta vote somewhere and heinz is way smarter than me so

vote lathum

OK< this is what I was looking for.

JeHeinze scanned Jon Ezarik. Earlier in the game Clap voted with JeHeinze against me, I am wondering if they were trying to get a bandwagon.

IMO JEHeinze scanning JE doesn't clear JEHeinze at all.

Has anyone else seen any indication of JEHeinze being cleared for any reason?

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 04:22 PM

Nope, and they are both players with a minimum of verifiable actions.

I should have some time for post digging in the next hour or two. I'll be looking for people Clap doesn't mention at any point in his posts.

path12 · 12-16-2007, 04:35 PM

Once again I received no result from last night, but unless someone specifically targeted me I wouldn't have.

path12 · 12-16-2007, 04:36 PM

Dola, I've got a sick household, so my weekend has been far more hectic than planned.

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 05:14 PM

Working through some posts from Clap. Since he was in the line of fire on Day 2 I'm hoping there is some value here.

Lathum · 12-16-2007, 05:41 PM

VOTE JEHEINZE

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 06:20 PM

OK, I posted the Day 3 vote earlier. Here is the final Day 2 vote.

Cronin - Barkeep (270), Clap (462), SnDvls (472), Swaggs (501)
SnDvls - Cronin (426), Path (443), JE (479)
Clap - Hoops (432), Lathum (495), MrW (498)
Swaggs - Saldana (382)
Hoops - Schmidty (378)
Lathum - JEHeinz (333)

Both times Clap was in the mix at the end. There are two people who didn't vote for him either time: Swaggs and Path. I'm probably going to look at one of those two for my vote today.

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 06:33 PM

A further review of voting records look much worse for Path than they do for Swaggs.

Day 1 - Clap votes Pass, Path votes PurdueBrad, Swaggs votes Clap
Summary: nothing to see here, three villagers up for vote, all three are spread out

Day 2 - Clap votes votes Cronin, Path votes SnDvls, Swaggs changes vote late from SnDvls to Cronin
Summary: well, we know that SnDvls was an Elemental. We don't know about Cronin yet. But if both are Elementals, then why switch and draw the attention?

Day 3: Clap votes MrW, Path votes MrW, Swaggs votes Saldana early, never returns to change it
Summary: Path was a later vote, forcing a 4-4 tie when it was unlikely Schmidty or Swaggs would return (Schmidty did). Swaggs wasn't around at deadline, indicating either that he has a life or wasn't that invested in the outcome

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 06:35 PM

I'm pretty certain Path was telling the truth about his power being altered. Only scenarios where this doesn't need to be true is:
a.) he has the "alter power" option and got feedback from the moderator on the impact for target
b.) he is on same team as Cronin

But the most simple answer is that his power was in fact altered. It doesn't mean that he isn't an Elemental, it just means that he wasn't the Night 1 killer.

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 06:38 PM

Ah, crap. JEHeinz wasn't on Clap either time either.
Day 2 - he voted Lathum early, never changed it
Day 3 - he followed me on the MrW vote early and never changed it

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 06:41 PM

OK, at this point I'm not going to vote for Swaggs. There were enough comments by Clap yesterday that I interpreted as trying to create doubt about Swaggs that I think he is a distant 3rd.

Heinz has vouched for Jonathan as good, but that is an easy one for a bad guy to do since they know the sides. Heck, even if Jonathan was playing a 3rd party like Saldana, he wouldn't go against this vouch.

So, I'm looking for arguments about Path vs Heinz if anyone feels like offering something between now and the deadline.

Mr. Wednesday · 12-16-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So, you invoked the day with your action from another day? And, it happens that the day we now have is the day that had not yet arrived?

I kind of figured the part you bolded is what you would suggest was your power, but I'm trying to figure out what good that does as a power for another day or how that suggests you are an Elemental.

Frankly, I don't think that a whole lot of powers that have been exercised identify the exerciser as an elemental.

It was certainly possible that today would be Rhino anyway, but I preferred to force it.

path12 · 12-16-2007, 07:07 PM

Because I didn't vote Clap either day means that you should vote for me? I think I've been one of the most open people around here information-wise. That reasoning smells.

Got a question? Fire away.

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 07:20 PM

Path, what have you done each of the last two nights?

Do you disagree with the line of reasoning, or the fact that you are one of the people that comes under scrutiny because of it?

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 07:24 PM

I saw your post from last night that you received no PM. Should we assume that you didn't put in an action last night?

path12 · 12-16-2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Path, what have you done each of the last two nights?

Do you disagree with the line of reasoning, or the fact that you are one of the people that comes under scrutiny because of it?

Night 2 I did nothing, because the power I lost on night 1 was one that was available under the Yak. The power I received in return is under the Rhino, so I have a choice between two tonight.

Last night my power was that if anyone used magic on me, I would be protected but it would randomly target another player. Since I got no result, I'm assuming nobody targeted me last night.

I disagree with the line of reasoning because I have been totally open with what has happened to me each night, while others have been far more secretive and apparently catch no heat. And after playing nursemaid for two solid days, I'm in a really shitty mood and worried I'm catching something myself.

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 07:36 PM

Path, do you think that the line of reasoning has merit when applied to JEHeinz and Swaggs?

Sorry you aren't feeling well, fwiw.

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 07:37 PM

Also, who are the more secretive players that have you concerned?

path12 · 12-16-2007, 07:41 PM

I don't know. I know that when I'm a wolf I like to get at least one vote in on a fellow wolf to avoid exactly this kind of reasoning. So I guess that my answer is that the reasoning seems a little less valid depending on how experienced you believe the bad guy is.

All I know about JEH is that he says he cleared JE. He hasn't said much I can recall other than that. But for that matter JE hasn't said a whole lot either, or Swaggs.

Right now I lean towards trusting Cronin because we had the same experience night 1, Lathum and myself. That's about it.

path12 · 12-16-2007, 07:42 PM

Dola, I'd still like to know who attacked me night 1 also. And what I'd really love to see is that someone else besides me tried to scan hoops at some point.

Lathum · 12-16-2007, 07:43 PM

I just think JEH and Clap were trying to hide out in the open.

path12 · 12-16-2007, 07:43 PM

VOTE JEHEINZ

For reasons above. I've got to run to the store in about 15 minutes or so to pick up some medicine and a gift that Ms.Path needs for someone, but will be around until then.

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 07:45 PM

If you want to talk about secretive players, Cronin should definitely be on that list. All he has given us is that his power was altered on Night 1, which I can vouch for by virtue of spying on SnDvls. Heck, we don't even know that you guys had an identical power used to negate, as no one has fessed up to acting against you.

I agree with trusting Lathum and would encourage anyone with a protection power to go to him this evening.

hoopsguy · 12-16-2007, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I just think JEH and Clap were trying to hide out in the open.

Heinz, with his 12 posts, hasn't exactly been out in the open.

The only action we have from him is vouching for JE. Other than that, we know nothing about him. Heck, he doesn't even have to have used an action to do that as the Avatars know who are Elementals.

12-15-2007, 12:12 PM	#801
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Nothing to report from last night. I plan to vote for one of the following: Mr. Wednesday Jonathan Ezarik jeheinz72 ...unless somebody comes forward with something new. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

12-15-2007, 12:20 PM	#803
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I thought one of them cleared the other, but that it went just one way. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

12-15-2007, 12:25 PM	#805
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Of the Lathum, Swaggs, hoopsguy triumvirate I would rate them Lathum (highest trust), Swaggs (mid-level trust), and hoopsguy (lowest level of trust). In other words, if I am convinced that Mr. W, je, and jh are all good, then I will probably end up voting for hoopsguy. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

12-15-2007, 12:26 PM	#806
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Really, the only person I feel rasonably good about is Lathum. The fact that I can verify his action on me from last night tells me that he, at least, did not kill Schmidty. Hoops makes me nervous, as well. He wiggled out of the day 1 lynch and everyone else that was involved, as the leading vote getters that day (Pass and SnDvls) are now verified to be good. He and Clap also had an odd exchange at the end of yesterday, regarding hoops' vote, which stuck out to me. The only thing that makes me feel reasonably good about him is that, with so many powers floating around, it would seem like someone would have busted him by now if he were bad. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

12-15-2007, 12:47 PM	#812
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Thinking it through, I've got to give props to CW for this game. We may be one or two good moves away from winning it, but we are down to 8 people and I semi-trust Lathum and trust myself, at this point. Hopefully someone made a good ID last night that can open things up a bit. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

12-15-2007, 12:15 PM	#802
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I am leaning towards Mr. Wed. JE and Jheinze pretty much cleared each other. Hoops still worries me, but I don't know why

12-15-2007, 12:32 PM	#809
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I am out for a while. When I get back I neeed to remember to see who cleared who between Jheinze and JE.

12-15-2007, 12:52 PM	#813
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I'm not sure what, exactly, you think you're seeing there. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

12-15-2007, 12:52 PM	#814
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I'm checking out for a bit, too. The whole RichRod/Michigan saga is making me think I need to spend some time away from the internets for a bit. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

12-15-2007, 01:20 PM	#816
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	OK, I used an action last night to protect Lathum. I actually send the order in saying that I was flip-flopping between Schmidty and Lathum, but went with Lathum because he was a more vocal player. My thought there was Schmidty was trusted after last night, but Lathum was also trusted by extension. Someone did try to act against Lathum last night, using a spell that would have switched places with him. My power prevented this from happening. But I have no information on who tried to act against him. Swaggs, I spent some time talking with Clap last night because he was around and posting. This is my first game playing with him and I was trying to get a measure of the guy. I even posted to that effect, and will be happy to pull that up as a reference if it helps you with your thought process on me. I would find it very convenient to be cleared at this point but I'm OK with not being as long as we are continuing to learn more about other players.

12-15-2007, 09:29 PM	#817
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	OK, guess people don't plan to talk until tomorrow.

12-15-2007, 09:33 PM	#818
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	The three people I wanted to hear from haven't logged on today, at all. That's the 2 J's and Mr. W. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

12-15-2007, 09:57 PM	#819
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	VOTE MR. WEDNESDAY I won't be around tomorrow. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

12-15-2007, 10:19 PM	#820
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I can confirm I was protected last night and someone tried a spell on me. I can't confirm it was Hoops but at this point I have to trust him.

12-16-2007, 10:41 AM	#821
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	OK, four people who have reported from last night and four still to come: Lathum - stopped Swaggs from using ability Hoops - protected Lathum, someone tried to use spell on Lathum to switch places Cronin - nothing to report Swaggs - blocked from action Path - ??? Jonathan - ??? Heinz - ??? MrW - ??? Cronin, if you do pop in at some point today I would like to talk a little bit about your actions this game. Going from memory, I know you were targeted by SnDvls Night 1, but I don't recall anything from Days 2 and 3 in terms of actions. My insights into you being blocked on Night 1 does not give me any info on what you were attempting and you haven't said what it was.

12-16-2007, 12:36 PM	#823
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	I did use my power. See CW's introduction to the day. No one interfered with me. I suspect, if there are two (or more) avatars remaining, we may find one on each side of the vote yesterday. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

12-16-2007, 01:08 PM	#824
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	MrW, I have re-read the intro to the day and don't see anything called out as your action. So can you just say what your action was?

12-16-2007, 03:45 PM	#826
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	So, you invoked the day with your action from another day? And, it happens that the day we now have is the day that had not yet arrived? I kind of figured the part you bolded is what you would suggest was your power, but I'm trying to figure out what good that does as a power for another day or how that suggests you are an Elemental.

12-16-2007, 04:22 PM	#828
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Nope, and they are both players with a minimum of verifiable actions. I should have some time for post digging in the next hour or two. I'll be looking for people Clap doesn't mention at any point in his posts.

12-16-2007, 04:35 PM	#829
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	Once again I received no result from last night, but unless someone specifically targeted me I wouldn't have. __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

12-16-2007, 04:36 PM	#830
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	Dola, I've got a sick household, so my weekend has been far more hectic than planned. __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

12-16-2007, 05:14 PM	#831
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Working through some posts from Clap. Since he was in the line of fire on Day 2 I'm hoping there is some value here.

12-16-2007, 05:41 PM	#832
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	VOTE JEHEINZE

12-16-2007, 06:20 PM	#833
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	OK, I posted the Day 3 vote earlier. Here is the final Day 2 vote. Cronin - Barkeep (270), Clap (462), SnDvls (472), Swaggs (501) SnDvls - Cronin (426), Path (443), JE (479) Clap - Hoops (432), Lathum (495), MrW (498) Swaggs - Saldana (382) Hoops - Schmidty (378) Lathum - JEHeinz (333) Both times Clap was in the mix at the end. There are two people who didn't vote for him either time: Swaggs and Path. I'm probably going to look at one of those two for my vote today.

12-16-2007, 06:33 PM	#834
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	A further review of voting records look much worse for Path than they do for Swaggs. Day 1 - Clap votes Pass, Path votes PurdueBrad, Swaggs votes Clap Summary: nothing to see here, three villagers up for vote, all three are spread out Day 2 - Clap votes votes Cronin, Path votes SnDvls, Swaggs changes vote late from SnDvls to Cronin Summary: well, we know that SnDvls was an Elemental. We don't know about Cronin yet. But if both are Elementals, then why switch and draw the attention? Day 3: Clap votes MrW, Path votes MrW, Swaggs votes Saldana early, never returns to change it Summary: Path was a later vote, forcing a 4-4 tie when it was unlikely Schmidty or Swaggs would return (Schmidty did). Swaggs wasn't around at deadline, indicating either that he has a life or wasn't that invested in the outcome

12-16-2007, 06:35 PM	#835
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I'm pretty certain Path was telling the truth about his power being altered. Only scenarios where this doesn't need to be true is: a.) he has the "alter power" option and got feedback from the moderator on the impact for target b.) he is on same team as Cronin But the most simple answer is that his power was in fact altered. It doesn't mean that he isn't an Elemental, it just means that he wasn't the Night 1 killer.

12-16-2007, 06:38 PM	#836
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Ah, crap. JEHeinz wasn't on Clap either time either. Day 2 - he voted Lathum early, never changed it Day 3 - he followed me on the MrW vote early and never changed it

12-16-2007, 06:41 PM	#837
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	OK, at this point I'm not going to vote for Swaggs. There were enough comments by Clap yesterday that I interpreted as trying to create doubt about Swaggs that I think he is a distant 3rd. Heinz has vouched for Jonathan as good, but that is an easy one for a bad guy to do since they know the sides. Heck, even if Jonathan was playing a 3rd party like Saldana, he wouldn't go against this vouch. So, I'm looking for arguments about Path vs Heinz if anyone feels like offering something between now and the deadline.

12-16-2007, 07:07 PM	#839
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	Because I didn't vote Clap either day means that you should vote for me? I think I've been one of the most open people around here information-wise. That reasoning smells. Got a question? Fire away. __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

12-16-2007, 07:20 PM	#840
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Path, what have you done each of the last two nights? Do you disagree with the line of reasoning, or the fact that you are one of the people that comes under scrutiny because of it?

12-16-2007, 07:24 PM	#841
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I saw your post from last night that you received no PM. Should we assume that you didn't put in an action last night?

12-16-2007, 07:36 PM	#843
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Path, do you think that the line of reasoning has merit when applied to JEHeinz and Swaggs? Sorry you aren't feeling well, fwiw.

12-16-2007, 07:37 PM	#844
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Also, who are the more secretive players that have you concerned?

12-16-2007, 07:41 PM	#845
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	I don't know. I know that when I'm a wolf I like to get at least one vote in on a fellow wolf to avoid exactly this kind of reasoning. So I guess that my answer is that the reasoning seems a little less valid depending on how experienced you believe the bad guy is. All I know about JEH is that he says he cleared JE. He hasn't said much I can recall other than that. But for that matter JE hasn't said a whole lot either, or Swaggs. Right now I lean towards trusting Cronin because we had the same experience night 1, Lathum and myself. That's about it. __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

12-16-2007, 07:42 PM	#846
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	Dola, I'd still like to know who attacked me night 1 also. And what I'd really love to see is that someone else besides me tried to scan hoops at some point. __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.