WW Small Game IX- The Cold War !! game over CIA win - Page 17

st.cronin · 03-17-2007, 05:30 PM

Some basic vote analysis.

Code:

molly		ntn
ardent		cronin
saldana		bullet
alan		ntn
st.cronin	ntn
molson		cronin

ITC the only cronin voter not still around
Narcizo the only ntn voter not still around

Code:

molly		bullet
ardent		itc
saldana		itc
alan		bullet
st.cronin	itc
molson		bullet

Seems obvious in retrospect that the kgb was after one or both of these players for some reason.

Code:

molly		alan
ardent		path
saldana		path
alan		path
cronin		path
molson		path

Nothing to see here, imo.

Code:

molly		cronin
ardent		itc
saldana		molly
alan		chief
cronin		itc
molson		saldana

This is the first vote where one of us final six has voted for another one of us. Saldana votes for molly, and molson votes for saldana.

Code:

molly		barkeep
ardent		barkeep
saldana		barkeep
alan		cronin
cronin		ardent
molson		molly

This was not a particularly close vote. Neither molly nor molson picked up a vote that day.

molson · 03-17-2007, 06:32 PM

That analysis just makes me want to vote for Lathum.

molson · 03-17-2007, 06:37 PM

I've suspected Molly for a while now, and posted that would be my vote, and nothing's changed today:

VOTE MOLLYMURPHY

molson · 03-17-2007, 07:48 PM

Oh, Just realized the deadline's Sunday.

Poli · 03-18-2007, 08:56 AM

I'll be heading back to Chicago tonight...around 5 central. I find it highly unlikely that I'll change my vote, unless someone has something earth-shattering.

MollyMurphy · 03-18-2007, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I'm surprised with so few players left, there's so little real info out there. Hasn't anyone else used skeleton keys, infrared goggles, etc.

I have not used anything and I have nothing.

MollyMurphy · 03-18-2007, 09:51 AM

I still believe that Alan is likely CIA and same for Saldana..I find it hard to believe that the Negotiator is evil.

I continue to have concerns on Cronin. AE and Molson are shady too given where we are today. I think Cronin has a point...what happened the night Molson was out stealing....and would someone good be stealing from his fellow Americans?

saldana · 03-18-2007, 09:52 AM

this vote could be the game if we started with 3 wolves, so if anyone knows anything, now would be the time to reveal it.

i am still very wary of molly, but i have to think at this point that one of the 4 vet players has to be bad, and that leads me to cronin, since i have some trust in alan and in AE.

Molson....can you explain to me exactly what happened the night you broke into my room?

saldana · 03-18-2007, 04:58 PM

vote molson

saldana · 03-18-2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Skeleton Key- use this to enter a players room. This may be used to enter during the day to search their belongings ( and possibly steal them) or at night to see if they are in bed where they should be.

here is why i voted for molson...he said he used the key to break into my room...but that is supposed to be a daytime action...not a nighttime action..so then i can only conclude that he came to kill me, and since i wasnt there, he could only trash my room and rob me instead.

molson · 03-18-2007, 05:41 PM

Molson 2 (Saldana, Cronin)
Cronin 2 (Alan, Ardent)
MollyMurphy 1 (Molson)

It'll be interesting to see how/if Molly chimes in.

molson · 03-18-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

here is why i voted for molson...he said he used the key to break into my room...but that is supposed to be a daytime action...not a nighttime action..so then i can only conclude that he came to kill me, and since i wasnt there, he could only trash my room and rob me instead.

The rules say I can break into a room EITHER at night or during the day. I broke in at night, just to see if you were there. You weren't. I was surprised to get the item too, because that's not clear in the rules, but I suppose I was able to get it because you weren't there.

molson · 03-18-2007, 05:46 PM

Saldana's vote for me is interesting. He knows I can break that tie, so it's almost as if he's voting for Cronin.

saldana · 03-18-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Saldana's vote for me is interesting. He knows I can break that tie, so it's almost as if he's voting for Cronin.

in all seriousness, did i miss something where i should know you are the captain?

saldana · 03-18-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

The rules say I can break into a room EITHER at night or during the day. I broke in at night, just to see if you were there. You weren't. I was surprised to get the item too, because that's not clear in the rules, but I suppose I was able to get it because you weren't there.

this is true, but since the key says you can steal during the day and check at night, you shouldnt have been able to rob me.

molson · 03-18-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

in all seriousness, did i miss something where i should know you are the captain?

No, I just meant that me and Cronin each have 2 votes, and I haven't voted for Cronin. So as it stands now, I can change my vote for Cronin and kill him. I would assume you would expect me to do that.

molson · 03-18-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

this is true, but since the key says you can steal during the day and check at night, you shouldnt have been able to rob me.

Based on the rules, I agree. Like I said, I didn't expect to get an item.

molson · 03-18-2007, 06:04 PM

And why would I say I did something that that seems to go against what is possible in the rules? That'd be pretty risky, I would think. Unless you're thinking I misred the rules, and have crafted a lie based on that misinterpretation, which I suppose is plausible. It didn't happen here though.

molson · 03-18-2007, 06:08 PM

Something tells me we're not going to hear from Molly, since we haven't seen her all weekend. Which means the only thing I can do to avoid a tie is vote for Cronin. I don't like being forced into a vote like that.

I know I'm not a spy, and I don't think Alan is. Based purely on the voting breakdown today, that kind of makes AE looks suspicious.

saldana · 03-18-2007, 06:10 PM

molly will be posting shortly....she will not miss the vote.

saldana · 03-18-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

And why would I say I did something that that seems to go against what is possible in the rules? That'd be pretty risky, I would think. Unless you're thinking I misred the rules, and have crafted a lie based on that misinterpretation, which I suppose is plausible. It didn't happen here though.

that is my point...you are either full of crap, and it took me this long to notice, or lathum played the mechanic differently than the rules.

basically what it boils down to is that i have to pick someone. i wont pick alan...there is no way he is a wolf, imo...and i really dont have anything on anyone else.

molson · 03-18-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

that is my point...you are either full of crap, and it took me this long to notice, or lathum played the mechanic differently than the rules.

But isn't is already clear that Lathum played the mechanic differently than the rules? I mean, someone stole your goggles at night - where else in the rules is a night steal possible?

saldana · 03-18-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

But isn't is already clear that Lathum played the mechanic differently than the rules? I mean, someone stole your goggles at night - where else in the rules is a night steal possible?

its not in the rules...which means the person that stole them (you) possible has abilities not clearly defined in the rules...we dont know what the kgb is capable of if the person they come to kill isnt there

Poli · 03-18-2007, 06:30 PM

Unvote st.cronin

VOTE MOLSON

Here's to hoping you're right, Saldana.

MollyMurphy · 03-18-2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

molly will be posting shortly....she will not miss the vote.

Sorry, Lathum has been a computer hog.

saldana · 03-18-2007, 06:46 PM

after thinking about it some more, whoever is the captain should reveal right now....we should vote that person and let them change the lynch to whoever the consensus lynch victim should be...that would verify someone as good for tomorrows vote

MollyMurphy · 03-18-2007, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

here is why i voted for molson...he said he used the key to break into my room...but that is supposed to be a daytime action...not a nighttime action..so then i can only conclude that he came to kill me, and since i wasnt there, he could only trash my room and rob me instead.

Wow, great point. As I said earlier, I was not sure why someone would steal from their own CIA team. This makes it even more concerning.

molson · 03-18-2007, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MollyMurphy

Wow, great point. As I said earlier, I was not sure why someone would steal from their own CIA team. This makes it even more concerning.

I didn't know if he was agent or spy when I looked in his room - that's why I looked. I still don't know for sure, since he's claimed (and others have confirmed) that he had a legitimate reason for being out.

MollyMurphy · 03-18-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I didn't know if he was agent or spy when I looked in his room - that's why I looked. I still don't know for sure, since he's claimed (and others have confirmed) that he had a legitimate reason for being out.

Are you questioning his role as the negotiator?

molson · 03-18-2007, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MollyMurphy

Are you questioning his role as the negotiator?

No, but I don't see why everyone assumed that negotiators are good. I know he talked about "July 4th" and all that with Alan and AE - but he would say the same kind of stuff if was a spy negotiator, trying to recruit the mercenary (he certainly wouldn't go to a random room and say, "hey, I'm a spy, wanna join up?) He'd have to test the waters as to not reveal himself.

MollyMurphy · 03-18-2007, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

No, but I don't see why everyone assumed that negotiators are good. I know he talked about "July 4th" and all that with Alan and AE - but he would say the same kind of stuff if was a spy negotiator, trying to recruit the mercenary (he certainly wouldn't go to a random room and say, "hey, I'm a spy, wanna join up?) He'd have to test the waters as to not reveal himself.

My inital reaction was "of course he is good". The more I am thinking about it, I am not 100% certain....it seems like he would be more of a neutral role since the mercenary could be bought by either side and he is the liason. since there is not a function that I am aware of to convert the negotiator, I guess it is open as to whether or not he is CIA or KGB.

MollyMurphy · 03-18-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

The Negotiator- You handles any mercenary contracts. Once per night you may seek out a player to see if they are the mercenary and offer them a contract.

This does not really indicate one way or another where his loyalties lie.

molson · 03-18-2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MollyMurphy

This does not really indicate one way or another where his loyalties lie.

Exactly - at first I thought there must be 2 negotiators, one for each side, and the first to get the mercenary gets him.

But it seems clear there's only one negotiator - no one else has claimed visits from anyone but saldana.

And I THOUGHT that the mercenary was American unless converted. Which would mean the negotiator is clearly bad. But no one else seems to think that.

MollyMurphy · 03-18-2007, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Mercenary- You has no loyalties. You are here on a US government contract which will soon expire. You are a skilled fighter. Part of your contract is you have to appear to be an ordinary member of the unit. Whoever finds you first with the right price will gain your next contract.

This indicates no loyalties at all. He is willing to fight for anyone that can pay his price. Tells me the negotiator could be on either side.

Alan T · 03-18-2007, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

after thinking about it some more, whoever is the captain should reveal right now....we should vote that person and let them change the lynch to whoever the consensus lynch victim should be...that would verify someone as good for tomorrows vote

I don't have a problem with that. And then after they reveal you can choose to pass them or me or keep the vest to try to keep the wolves guessing too.

The one thing I am afraid of here is, that the wording "day" might mean during the entire 24 period day and not the "day cycle". I guess to me a molson vote isn't really any much different than a barkeep vote yesterday. I have my doubts but its not nearly as strong as others. Yesterday after the vote, Molson was giving me strong wolf vibes.. but the way Ardent quickly hopped his vote over (saving cronin in the process) just reaffirms my belief that cronin + ardent = wolves

MollyMurphy · 03-18-2007, 07:47 PM

This has me questioning both Saldana and Molson....Saldana b/c I really have no clear indication that he is CIA...I just assumed it. Molson b/c I don't understand why he would be stealing at night, especially if Saldana was CIA. Why would CIA steal from CIA?

saldana · 03-18-2007, 07:50 PM

the kgb doesnt need a negotiator...common practices in games with turncoat (mercenary) is that the is converted to the bad side if they try to kill him at night.

thats why no one claimed to be visited by the kgb, cause everyone they visit ends up dead.

molson · 03-18-2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't have a problem with that. And then after they reveal you can choose to pass them or me or keep the vest to try to keep the wolves guessing too.

The one thing I am afraid of here is, that the wording "day" might mean during the entire 24 period day and not the "day cycle". I guess to me a molson vote isn't really any much different than a barkeep vote yesterday. I have my doubts but its not nearly as strong as others. Yesterday after the vote, Molson was giving me strong wolf vibes.. but the way Ardent quickly hopped his vote over (saving cronin in the process) just reaffirms my belief that cronin + ardent = wolves

I'll go ahead and trust you because I have nothing stronger to go on.

I'm the captain. Whoever has the vest, send it on over. Should be a no-brainer. I mean, if I'm lying, that will be completely obvious in a few minutes.

Haven't decided who to kill tonight yet.

Alan T · 03-18-2007, 07:51 PM

My personal assumption with Saldana's role is that its like the Priest role from the Tombstone game. He's a good guy, he could go visit people and his information can't tell you anything about the person he visited, however it could possibly give a bad guy false trust and mess up your CoT if you use the information not as meant.

I don't trust Ardent this game, but I do trust Saldana.

MollyMurphy · 03-18-2007, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

the kgb doesnt need a negotiator...common practices in games with turncoat (mercenary) is that the is converted to the bad side if they try to kill him at night.

thats why no one claimed to be visited by the kgb, cause everyone they visit ends up dead.

Really? That is a typical function of the games? I did not know that. Not sure if you are trying to play me or if you are telling me the truth.

You have not given me a reason to think you are KGB yet, just wary b/c it never crossed my mind that you would be and I really have no factual evidence to support KGB or CIA.

At this point, I have seen more questionable activity from Molson vs. Saldana. I am not 100% sold on either of you as fellow CIA, but Molson has sent up more red flags this weekend.

Vote Molson

MollyMurphy · 03-18-2007, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

My personal assumption with Saldana's role is that its like the Priest role from the Tombstone game. He's a good guy, he could go visit people and his information can't tell you anything about the person he visited, however it could possibly give a bad guy false trust and mess up your CoT if you use the information not as meant.

I don't trust Ardent this game, but I do trust Saldana.

In the Tombstone game, did they indicate if the Priest was good or bad at the beginning of the game? Or was it just assumed as we did with the negotiator so far?

MollyMurphy · 03-18-2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I'll go ahead and trust you because I have nothing stronger to go on.

I'm the captain. Whoever has the vest, send it on over. Should be a no-brainer. I mean, if I'm lying, that will be completely obvious in a few minutes.

Haven't decided who to kill tonight yet.

Why would you need the vest if you are the captain?

molson · 03-18-2007, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MollyMurphy

Why would you need the vest if you are the captain?

Because then nobody would ever lynch me (since I am obviously good), and so I'm a clear nightkill victim target.

MollyMurphy · 03-18-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Because then nobody would ever lynch me (since I am obviously good), and so I'm a clear nightkill victim target.

Oh, you mean at night....sorry, dumb on my part...I am a little slow. I thought you meant for the lynch. Sorry about that.

saldana · 03-18-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MollyMurphy

Why would you need the vest if you are the captain?

molson if you are straight up, kill cronin or ardent.

molly the vest protects people from night attacks

molson · 03-18-2007, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

molson if you are straight up, kill cronin or ardent.

molly the vest protects people from night attacks

I hope I'm right

Lathum · 03-18-2007, 08:14 PM

Molson 4 (Saldana, Cronin. Ardent, MollyMurphy)
Cronin 1 (Alan,)
MollyMurphy 1 (Molson)

You all speak up and determine Molson must be a spy since he stole from Saldana even though he admited it. The remaining few of you gather together and inform Molson it is his turn to come to justice. "Not today" Molson says. As your captain I order you to lynch Ardent in my place. Eager to all show your loyalty you turn on Ardent and beat him to death with your fists.

You all rush to Ardents room hoping you made the correct descion but all you discover are letters from his parents and a giant Tee Martin poster. Ardent was a CIA agent!!!

Night phase has begun. Deadline at 9:00 AM EST

saldana · 03-18-2007, 08:20 PM

shit....unless the body armor gets us a save, we lost.

molson · 03-18-2007, 08:21 PM

Basically a toss up, unfortunately. My gut has been MollyMurphy for two days, but nothing real substantial behind that either.

st.cronin · 03-18-2007, 08:27 PM

Is it conceivable to anybody that molson is kgb?

03-17-2007, 05:30 PM	#801
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Some basic vote analysis. Code: molly ntn ardent cronin saldana bullet alan ntn st.cronin ntn molson cronin ITC the only cronin voter not still around Narcizo the only ntn voter not still around Code: molly bullet ardent itc saldana itc alan bullet st.cronin itc molson bullet Seems obvious in retrospect that the kgb was after one or both of these players for some reason. Code: molly alan ardent path saldana path alan path cronin path molson path Nothing to see here, imo. Code: molly cronin ardent itc saldana molly alan chief cronin itc molson saldana This is the first vote where one of us final six has voted for another one of us. Saldana votes for molly, and molson votes for saldana. Code: molly barkeep ardent barkeep saldana barkeep alan cronin cronin ardent molson molly This was not a particularly close vote. Neither molly nor molson picked up a vote that day. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

03-18-2007, 08:56 AM	#805
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	I'll be heading back to Chicago tonight...around 5 central. I find it highly unlikely that I'll change my vote, unless someone has something earth-shattering. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

03-18-2007, 06:30 PM	#824
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Unvote st.cronin VOTE MOLSON Here's to hoping you're right, Saldana. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

03-18-2007, 08:27 PM	#850
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Is it conceivable to anybody that molson is kgb? __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

03-17-2007, 06:32 PM	#802
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	That analysis just makes me want to vote for Lathum.

03-17-2007, 06:37 PM	#803
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	I've suspected Molly for a while now, and posted that would be my vote, and nothing's changed today: VOTE MOLLYMURPHY

03-17-2007, 07:48 PM	#804
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Oh, Just realized the deadline's Sunday.

03-18-2007, 09:51 AM	#807
MollyMurphy Mascot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle	I still believe that Alan is likely CIA and same for Saldana..I find it hard to believe that the Negotiator is evil. I continue to have concerns on Cronin. AE and Molson are shady too given where we are today. I think Cronin has a point...what happened the night Molson was out stealing....and would someone good be stealing from his fellow Americans?

03-18-2007, 09:52 AM	#808
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	this vote could be the game if we started with 3 wolves, so if anyone knows anything, now would be the time to reveal it. i am still very wary of molly, but i have to think at this point that one of the 4 vet players has to be bad, and that leads me to cronin, since i have some trust in alan and in AE. Molson....can you explain to me exactly what happened the night you broke into my room?

03-18-2007, 04:58 PM	#809
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	vote molson

03-18-2007, 05:41 PM	#811
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Molson 2 (Saldana, Cronin) Cronin 2 (Alan, Ardent) MollyMurphy 1 (Molson) It'll be interesting to see how/if Molly chimes in.

03-18-2007, 05:46 PM	#813
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Saldana's vote for me is interesting. He knows I can break that tie, so it's almost as if he's voting for Cronin.

03-18-2007, 06:04 PM	#818
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	And why would I say I did something that that seems to go against what is possible in the rules? That'd be pretty risky, I would think. Unless you're thinking I misred the rules, and have crafted a lie based on that misinterpretation, which I suppose is plausible. It didn't happen here though.

03-18-2007, 06:08 PM	#819
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Something tells me we're not going to hear from Molly, since we haven't seen her all weekend. Which means the only thing I can do to avoid a tie is vote for Cronin. I don't like being forced into a vote like that. I know I'm not a spy, and I don't think Alan is. Based purely on the voting breakdown today, that kind of makes AE looks suspicious.

03-18-2007, 06:10 PM	#820
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	molly will be posting shortly....she will not miss the vote.

03-18-2007, 06:46 PM	#826
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	after thinking about it some more, whoever is the captain should reveal right now....we should vote that person and let them change the lynch to whoever the consensus lynch victim should be...that would verify someone as good for tomorrows vote

03-18-2007, 07:47 PM	#836
MollyMurphy Mascot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle	This has me questioning both Saldana and Molson....Saldana b/c I really have no clear indication that he is CIA...I just assumed it. Molson b/c I don't understand why he would be stealing at night, especially if Saldana was CIA. Why would CIA steal from CIA?

03-18-2007, 07:50 PM	#837
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	the kgb doesnt need a negotiator...common practices in games with turncoat (mercenary) is that the is converted to the bad side if they try to kill him at night. thats why no one claimed to be visited by the kgb, cause everyone they visit ends up dead.

03-18-2007, 07:51 PM	#839
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	My personal assumption with Saldana's role is that its like the Priest role from the Tombstone game. He's a good guy, he could go visit people and his information can't tell you anything about the person he visited, however it could possibly give a bad guy false trust and mess up your CoT if you use the information not as meant. I don't trust Ardent this game, but I do trust Saldana.

03-18-2007, 08:14 PM	#847
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Molson 4 (Saldana, Cronin. Ardent, MollyMurphy) Cronin 1 (Alan,) MollyMurphy 1 (Molson) You all speak up and determine Molson must be a spy since he stole from Saldana even though he admited it. The remaining few of you gather together and inform Molson it is his turn to come to justice. "Not today" Molson says. As your captain I order you to lynch Ardent in my place. Eager to all show your loyalty you turn on Ardent and beat him to death with your fists. You all rush to Ardents room hoping you made the correct descion but all you discover are letters from his parents and a giant Tee Martin poster. Ardent was a CIA agent!!! Night phase has begun. Deadline at 9:00 AM EST

03-18-2007, 08:20 PM	#848
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	shit....unless the body armor gets us a save, we lost.

03-18-2007, 08:21 PM	#849
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Basically a toss up, unfortunately. My gut has been MollyMurphy for two days, but nothing real substantial behind that either.

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