Werewolf LXXI - Doomsday (GAME OVER. WOLVES WIN!)

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Pass, shut up.

No. I tried that last time, and it got me lynched.

Anyway, this just furthers my story. Of course you were going to come out as the Seer at this point -- it completes the setup, and gets you protected. You've still yet to explain how SY would think I was a wolf if you were the Seer.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Pass, shut up. You have been under suspicion for a while just die and turn wolf...

Heinz was the guy who came back wolf...

To sum it up....

Day 1 Heinz Villager
Day 2 Lathum(I accused him) Villager
Day 3 Pass (Wolf)
Day 4 PB (Wolf)

All this means to me is that I'm voting for either you or Lathum because this is horse$hit.

[nfg22]

In post 799 i am talking to pass

[PurdueBrad]

ntn, if there is a God out there, please tell me that you scanned EITHER me or nfg. Help me out here for the love of God, Allah, Buddah, etc.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Also maybe SY didnt scan pass but just have strong suspicion and didnt want to be lynched so he claimed that he scanned him.

That's what I'VE been saying!!!

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

All this means to me is that I'm voting for either you or Lathum because this is horse$hit.

Some people need to calm down. You cannot get mad.

Even if I were a wolf and I was so smart as to make all this up then you should applaud me not get pissed.

Fact is, I am not a wolf. Just stating what my scans say.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by nfg22

PB...how are you infuriated? I am told I am the seer. I scanned you. You came back as wolf. You get mad? if your lying thats a jerk move...

Dude, I have no way to counter this except for you to kill me and see that I'm not a wolf and I have a bad feeling that at that point you will have one the game.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Some people need to calm down. You cannot get mad.

Even if I were a wolf and I was so smart as to make all this up then you should applaud me not get pissed.

Fact is, I am not a wolf. Just stating what my scans say.

For the record, I'm not mad. I didn't appreciate being told to shut up. But I'm not mad.

[PurdueBrad]

I'm not mad at nfg, I'm ticked at this dynamic if it is the fool because the rules state it works otherwise and I'm going to falsely lynched because of it OR it is a hell of a wolf lie that will win the game.

[nfg22]

Sorry... I didnt mean shut up as in shut up but more of a shut up of the "youve got to be kidding kind"

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Even if I were a wolf and I was so smart as to make all this up then you should applaud me not get pissed.

I will totally applaud you when this brings you to endgame.

[nfg22]

PB...it wont bring me to end game

[nfg22]

im a villager

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Also maybe SY didnt scan pass but just have strong suspicion and didnt want to be lynched so he claimed that he scanned him.

Seriously, people. He's admitting that my hunch is exactly how it went down. We can't let him get away with this. He can't be either the seer OR the fool. He's lying.

[nfg22]

For real...I outed pass, stopped outing Lathum and agreed with SY at all the right times. It couldnt have been made up.

[PurdueBrad]

nfg, again, just want you to know, I'm not mad at you, I guess I am surprised and disappointed at whatever has made me scan as a wolf. Some of you guys have played with me before, I've NEVER had this reaction, seriously. I understand voting me off but I'm telling you that this is wrong. I'll leave it at that.

[nfg22]

Well the thing is PB. I dont know how to believe you. Unless I am the fool. Which would mean SY lied about Pass. I had Pass come up as wolf. I also had Heinz come up as villager. I dont know how you could be a villager.

[nfg22]

Also I know your not mad.

[PurdueBrad]

I'm keeping my vote where it's at because we're either going to find that your scans are off and Pass isn't a wolf OR I'll hang in there, help nail a wolf, and move on from there.

[nfg22]

Vote PASS

[The Jackal]

i'm starting to think both nfg and pass are wolves

[The Jackal]

and nfg you really need to get the rules down about the fool, if you are a villager all this posturing about the fool getting any other scan besides villager is making your case sound made up

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

and nfg you really need to get the rules down about the fool, if you are a villager all this posturing about the fool getting any other scan besides villager is making your case sound made up

Well then I am not the fool. I am pretty new, this is my 4th game or so. I had two scans as wolf. Pass and PB. Nuff said.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Sorry... I didnt mean shut up as in shut up but more of a shut up of the "youve got to be kidding kind"

Sorry if I took it the wrong way.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Also...I scanned the guy who got nightkilled on day one and he came back villager...so this leads me to believe I am not a fool but I dont know how the SY thing works...

I replied to this already, but I want to lay my reply out a little bit more here. If you're really the seer, you would have been thinking in your mind that there's a chance you might be the fool. You wouldn't have been caught like this. The only way this slip-up happens is if you're a wolf who has thought more about making sure your reveals line up than knowing the seer/fool rules.

Also, if you really scanned me yesterday, and I really came up wolf, why did you let SY take so much heat, and eventually get lynched?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I guess the flip side to this is that if the seer is not in danger of getting lynched, and if he hasn't found a wolf, and if the people that are in danger of getting lynched, he might as well see how the vote pans out today, and wait until tomorrow.

I'm not sure how a scenario like that could have actually happened, though.

Here's post 644, where I laid out the only way I saw that a seer would not want to reveal himself. Clearly, the scenario you claim has happened is not the one I laid out in this post. You claim you found a wolf. You saw the run-off between me and SY forming, but didn't really do anything to stop it. I don't think you WANTED to do anything to stop it.

I know a lot of you have been looking hard at me, based on thoughts that I'm someone an alpha wolf would choose. I've already documented why I don't think that's the case (and spelling out a rather embarrassing personal history as a wolf in the process). But even if you think I would make a good choice to be on the wolf team, there has to be a counter to that -- that as a result, the alpha wolf would be less likely to choose me, knowing that so many people would be looking hard at me. That was the basis behind KWhit's "middle-of-the-road" thinking on Day 1, which I think gave us some meaningful discussion to hold us over until some events started happening.

Anyway, I think we're past the point of thinking about reputations, and trying to figure this out based on who the alpha wolf would choose. There's a lot of information about there regarding this reveal of NFG's, and I think we need to look at it with unbiased eyes.

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I replied to this already, but I want to lay my reply out a little bit more here. If you're really the seer, you would have been thinking in your mind that there's a chance you might be the fool. You wouldn't have been caught like this. The only way this slip-up happens is if you're a wolf who has thought more about making sure your reveals line up than knowing the seer/fool rules.

Also, if you really scanned me yesterday, and I really came up wolf, why did you let SY take so much heat, and eventually get lynched?

I didnt know if SY was a villager. I did also try and stick up against him.

[nfg22]

i mean against you

[nfg22]

I already said with the no night kill for the wolves, I didnt think it was fair to reveal being seer when they couldnt kill me.

[nfg22]

ntn...any word?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by nfg22

I already said with the no night kill for the wolves, I didnt think it was fair to reveal being seer when they couldnt kill me.

I read that, and saw that as hint-dropping for this fake reveal later. It doesn't make sense to me -- if we had a bodyguard protection the night mccollins died, then we know that if the seer revealed, the bg didn't protect him the night before, so he'd be able to protect him the next night. So there's no reason to think that's an unfair advantage. Everyone seemed to think NC had a fair solution -- why take it upon yourself to restrict things?

[nfg22]

Because it would be unfair in my mind. Its my own decision.

[nfg22]

I gtg be back later tonight

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Heinz was the guy who came back wolf...

To sum it up....

Day 1 Heinz Villager
Day 2 Lathum(I accused him) Villager
Day 3 Pass (Wolf)
Day 4 PB (Wolf)

what do you mean by the bolded part here?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by nfg22

I didnt know if SY was a villager. I did also try and stick up against him.

Come on. First, I disagree -- I think you did know SY was a villager. But let's assume that you didn't. The vote is tied, SY has 2 votes, I have 2 votes. SY puts his vote on me, and I put my vote on him in retaliation, making it 3-3. Before that happened, my vote was on you. If you really thought I was a wolf, then wouldn't the fact that SY voted for me at that point have cleared him in your mind? He could have voted for NFG, and it would have been 2-2-2. Instead, his vote makes it certain that it would be either him or me getting lynched -- which would have been disaster if we were both wolves.

I just don't understand how you could have thought SY was a wolf, if what you said was true.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

what do you mean by the bolded part here?

I assumed he meant to say that Heinz came back villager. Probably an innocent mistake, but it's probably easier to make mistakes like that when you're lying through your teeth.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

i said i wasn't going to vote pass today, and i dont think ntn is the way to go, so i'm going to go with sonic for now since the flyers depress me and i doubt ill be up before 10 .. here's hoping we nail a wolf

vote sonic youth

Hey The Jackal, just going through old posts, and I remember thinking this was weird. I looked back, and I didn't see where you said you weren't going to vote me today. Or did you just mean you'd been saying it to yourself? Anyway, can you explain why you had that philosophy, given that you had voted for me for two straight days before that? I think this could help us figure things out.

[Passacaglia]

And by "today' I mean "that day"

[The Jackal]

im about to step out for a doctors appt.. i could've sworn i wrote somewhere that i was going to consider different options than pass, but maybe i had it written down and then never posted it, but you're right, i was always going on that yesterday, its mainly why i didnt switch

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

im about to step out for a doctors appt.. i could've sworn i wrote somewhere that i was going to consider different options than pass, but maybe i had it written down and then never posted it, but you're right, i was always going on that yesterday, its mainly why i didnt switch

I guess that part isn't a big deal. I'm more concerned with what it was that made you had a change of heart. Did you become less convinced that I was a wolf in your mind? Or was there some other method behind the madness?

[The Jackal]

It wasn't so much that I was less convinced.. All I was ever going off was that you'd be a good target to be a wolf, and I still feel that way. I just didn't want to be led blindly by that piece of info, and I didn't have as strong of a gut feeling as render.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

It wasn't so much that I was less convinced.. All I was ever going off was that you'd be a good target to be a wolf, and I still feel that way. I just didn't want to be led blindly by that piece of info, and I didn't have as strong of a gut feeling as render.

That makes sense. So how does that leave you with where you are thinking of voting today?

[path12]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

nfg, again, just want you to know, I'm not mad at you, I guess I am surprised and disappointed at whatever has made me scan as a wolf. Some of you guys have played with me before, I've NEVER had this reaction, seriously. I understand voting me off but I'm telling you that this is wrong. I'll leave it at that.

It's OK to be mad at nfg. He is calling you a wolf, after all. And could well be lying, but I want to take a little time going over the roles sometime this weekend to see if there is a way this makes sense.

nfg, why did you decide to scan PurdueBrad? Wouldn't ntn or somebody else have been a more obvious scan?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

That makes sense. So how does that leave you with where you are thinking of voting today?

Well, it's not blindly following an idea that you'd make a good wolf anymore. There's two claims of you being the wolf. Here's how I see this:

If SY was the fool and nfg is the seer, then you're a wolf.

If SY was the seer and nfg is a wolf, then you're a wolf.

If SY was the fool and nfg is faking being the seer, than the real seer is still out there, and it's possible you aren't a wolf. But since we haven't had anyone counter nfg, it's likelier that one of the first two scenarios is happening.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

ntn, if there is a God out there, please tell me that you scanned EITHER me or nfg. Help me out here for the love of God, Allah, Buddah, etc.

I scanned Render. he came up Villager.

[ntndeacon]

do we know how the weekend is going to play out?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Well, it's not blindly following an idea that you'd make a good wolf anymore. There's two claims of you being the wolf. Here's how I see this:

If SY was the fool and nfg is the seer, then you're a wolf.

If SY was the seer and nfg is a wolf, then you're a wolf.

If SY was the fool and nfg is faking being the seer, than the real seer is still out there, and it's possible you aren't a wolf. But since we haven't had anyone counter nfg, it's likelier that one of the first two scenarios is happening.

I guess I'd like to offer a different possibility. SY was the seer, but had not scanned me. I think that's why his reveal was half-hearted -- he wanted to stay alive, and wanted to keep his identity secret. This has played right into the wolves' hands, and NFG jumped on it to take advantage. It's probably one of those "if he's a wolf, he deserves to win" things, but I don't go down like that -- from where I'm sitting, I'm a villager, and I've got to keep fighting the good fight.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

do we know how the weekend is going to play out?

Either you guys are going to lynch me and lose the game, or you'll lynch NFG, and we're on our way to winning.

Or do you mean deadline-wise? Looks like we have a Monday 10 AM deadline. This brings me to my next point. I've been putting off my reveal as long as I could, but I should just stop kidding myself into thinking I can get by here without it -- hell, even WITH this reveal, I probably don't stand much chance. I'm still holding out hope, though. Can you guys each tell me when's the last time I'll be able to twist your ear before deadline? NFG, you and the other wolf or wolves obviously need not answer -- you guys will want to keep your votes locked on me either way.

[ntndeacon]

Ok I did not see the Monday part. still don't . then iwill be on Sunday at some point
and in and out to se what has gone down

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Either you guys are going to lynch me and lose the game, or you'll lynch NFG, and we're on our way to winning.

Or do you mean deadline-wise? Looks like we have a Monday 10 AM deadline. This brings me to my next point. I've been putting off my reveal as long as I could, but I should just stop kidding myself into thinking I can get by here without it -- hell, even WITH this reveal, I probably don't stand much chance. I'm still holding out hope, though. Can you guys each tell me when's the last time I'll be able to twist your ear before deadline? NFG, you and the other wolf or wolves obviously need not answer -- you guys will want to keep your votes locked on me either way.

That said, I'd rather not make this a wait-for-my-reveal weekend. I'd like people to look at what I've posted and realize that this is completely out of whack. Even though I think everyone in the game has posted more than once and still not unvoted me, I'm still holding out hope that people can still listen without prejudice (good album), and see that the wool is being pulled over your eyes here. NFG is making a VERY devious, VERY smart play, and I'd like us to look back and remember this game as the time where we got VERY smart to win it anyway.

I'm in and out over the weekend -- the Draft get-together is up in the air, so I don't even know if I'll be out for that, and the rest of the weekend will be spent studying stuff online, which means checking in here very often to distract myself. So please, ask whatever questions you have. I really want us to get this guy!