Online dating

[Grover]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

My thought? Snap a picture of the two of them when she's there and send it to me and tell me which one the friend is. If I'm attracted to her then you can set me up and we can totally double-date sometime.

Note: I am being serious.

We'll see what I can do.

[Izulde]

My thought process is she's trying to set you up with the friend and you've already been friends zoned as far as she goes.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Izulde

My thought process is she's trying to set you up with the friend and you've already been friends zoned as far as she goes.

But the friend lives in Boston. Two hours away.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Grover

But the friend lives in Boston. Two hours away.

That's irrelevant. Two hours isn't *that* long distance-wise.

The real issue here is your relationship to Original Girl. As far as Original Girl is concerned, you are Tuesday/Thursday class conversation buddy. That's it.

[SkippyDies]

Originally Posted by Grover

Throwing this here because there's nowhere else to put it really (random thoughts?)

There's a young woman in two of my classes (assumed 23-26). We talk pretty much every class day (Tue/Thur) since we see enough of each other. Today we were talking about music and she started thumbing through my iPod. She asked me how I felt about The Doors, said I loved Morrison, etc, etc.

She then proceeds to tell me she's got a friend (female) coming up from Boston next week and that we should all get together because she thinks her friend and I would get along well. I agreed, because A. she's fairly attractive, B. great personality.

Anyway, my thought process is this: she's interested in me and was simply looking for a way to ask me to hang out without it being too serious, and having a friend with her is a way for her to gauge interest and get a verdict on me from a friend.

Thoughts from the FOFC peanut gallery?

Hey man don't over think it. Just go out and have a good time with the ladies and if there's a followup that you need to be worried about then you can worry about it when that time comes. Maybe she wants you. Maybe she wants you to meet her friend so she can set you guys up. Maybe she just wants to see how you act in public without the awkwardness of a date. Doesn't matter man. A good looking lady invited you into her world so you just need to be yourself keep it cool and if you're lucky, one of them will want to spend more time with you.

Sounds like a winning proposition even if you just end up as friends.

[Grover]

You are the only person who has taken up this view point.

Which I respect.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by SkippyDies

Hey man don't over think it. Just go out and have a good time with the ladies and if there's a followup that you need to be worried about then you can worry about it when that time comes. Maybe she wants you. Maybe she wants you to meet her friend so she can set you guys up. Maybe she just wants to see how you act in public without the awkwardness of a date. Doesn't matter man. A good looking lady invited you into her world so you just need to be yourself keep it cool and if you're lucky, one of them will want to spend more time with you.

Sounds like a winning proposition even if you just end up as friends.

+1.

I have zero expectations over it and I don't plan to have any. I can judge how things went after they happen.

[SkippyDies]

Originally Posted by Grover

You are the only person who has taken up this view point.

Which I respect.

Originally Posted by Izulde

That's irrelevant. Two hours isn't *that* long distance-wise.

The real issue here is your relationship to Original Girl. As far as Original Girl is concerned, you are Tuesday/Thursday class conversation buddy. That's it.

Not necessarily. Sometimes women change their minds. Sometimes people spend years as friends and develop a connection.

You can't possibly know what the hell someone is thinking without any context and even when you do have context you gotta spend time being yourselves. The only way you get that is through increased reps on the practice field and in games. It might take you a long while before you develop into the #1 quarterback on her squad. You might always be a practice squad dude she keeps cutting and resigning as she needs someone.

You can obviously choose to go a different route if you want. Find a team that needs a starter right now which you would do if there was one out there calling your number. But in the absence of that you got two teams that are interested in AT LEAST scouting you. Maybe you get a callback. Maybe you don't. It don't matter! You need the reps and you already have the familiarity.

Treat the friend well and treat her well. Don't try to claim one or the other when you hang out. Play it cool and just try to enjoy the night as if there won't be another date. Talk about shit you find interesting but more important than that LISTEN to them and care about the shit they talk about.

So long as you do not approach it as a date you are going to be fine. Women can be fickle creatures. Just roll with it because remember that it's better than being at home talking to us on the internet.

Good luck.

[sterlingice]

Love that this just went all football metaphor

SI

[Grover]

Heh, the view point comment was for Izulde, but I'm sure you got that.

Regardless, your QB analogy is perfect. And is how I'm going into this.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Love that this just went all football metaphor

SI

*shrugs* Comes off your garden-variety douchebag "here's how to get the chicks!" infomercial-style patter to me.

But, as with everything in life, YMMV.

[SkippyDies]

Originally Posted by Izulde

*shrugs* Comes off your garden-variety douchebag "here's how to get the chicks!" infomercial-style patter to me.

But, as with everything in life, YMMV.

Garden variety douchebag who cares. I put a lot of work into my garden variety douchebag advice though. So dismiss it if you're bitter buddy but the sincerity couldn't be more genuine. I'm sorry that you're not finding what you want out there.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

My guess: She wants To Serve Man.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Grover

Throwing this here because there's nowhere else to put it really (random thoughts?)

There's a young woman in two of my classes (assumed 23-26). We talk pretty much every class day (Tue/Thur) since we see enough of each other. Today we were talking about music and she started thumbing through my iPod. She asked me how I felt about The Doors, said I loved Morrison, etc, etc.

She then proceeds to tell me she's got a friend (female) coming up from Boston next week and that we should all get together because she thinks her friend and I would get along well. I agreed, because A. she's fairly attractive, B. great personality.

Anyway, my thought process is this: she's interested in me and was simply looking for a way to ask me to hang out without it being too serious, and having a friend with her is a way for her to gauge interest and get a verdict on me from a friend.

Thoughts from the FOFC peanut gallery?

That happened to me once, a long long time ago.

#1: she was attracted to me
#2: she was in a relationship

The friend was the buffer zone to make sure that nothing happened.

[Galaxy]

If you're in a wheelchair-regardless of how attractive you might be-wouldn't your ideal date's height, and maybe body type, be a little less important? For example, a profile has her ideal date starting at 4 inches her height with just an athletic and toned body.

[Galaxy]

Why women lose the dating game

Any truth to this viewpoint?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by SkippyDies

Hey man don't over think it. Just go out and have a good time with the ladies and if there's a followup that you need to be worried about then you can worry about it when that time comes. Maybe she wants you. Maybe she wants you to meet her friend so she can set you guys up. Maybe she just wants to see how you act in public without the awkwardness of a date. Doesn't matter man. A good looking lady invited you into her world so you just need to be yourself keep it cool and if you're lucky, one of them will want to spend more time with you.

Sounds like a winning proposition even if you just end up as friends.

This, just have a good time. When dudes start overthinking shut the usually turn into morons.

[Matthean]

Someday I'm going to write a bestselling book called, "The Passive Aggressive Postings of Women on Facebook." Chapter 1: "The Big Decision." If at any point a woman who is in a relationship posts how she needs to make a "big decision," you can perfectly assume she's going to break up with whoever she is dating within the following days or couple of weeks. Despite this, her friends on Facebook will have various responses of confusion and disbelief.

I'm honestly losing count how many times this has happened now. A couple I know broke up yesterday after she had posted about making a big/important decision a couple of weeks ago.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Why women lose the dating game

Any truth to this viewpoint?

It's very skewed to Australia, so maybe it is there.

However I think the author missed a huge point...these women are trying to land the cream of the crop and most of them probably fail to realize that they aren't the cream of the crop themselves, but, think they are and then can't understand why they are still single.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

It's very skewed to Australia, so maybe it is there.

However I think the author missed a huge point...these women are trying to land the cream of the crop and most of them probably fail to realize that they aren't the cream of the crop themselves, but, think they are and then can't understand why they are still single.

haha


hahahaha


bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

However I think the author missed a huge point...these women are trying to land the cream of the crop and most of them probably fail to realize that they aren't the cream of the crop themselves, but, think they are and then can't understand why they are still single.

Do you believe that men just value things differently than women do? Is being a highly-successful, highly-educated women as attractive to men as they think it should be?

[Dr. Sak]

From a person who has been friend-zoned more times than he can count...my advice is to just go out and have fun with zero expectations. You never know when you will click with her friend or maybe even someone else they introduce you to down the road. No use closing any doors and as SkippyDies said "Just roll with it because remember that it's better than being at home talking to us on the internet."

Just be careful because what you read as a flirt or a signal might just be her way of being friendly.

[Dr. Sak]

I guess to follow up my prior post...there were two books I read that helped me with my dating life. A friend of mine pointed me to a book called: What Every BODY is Saying: An Ex-FBI Agent's Guide to Speed-Reading People [Paperback] by Joe Navarro. I used it as guide to help me deal with coaches on the sidelines because I could immediately tell if they were lying...being passive-aggressive and how to handle the situation. Because you can mask your words but not your body language.

That book referenced another one called Love Signals by David Givens. I'll be the first to admit that I was clueless when I was dating. I took all women for the exact words that came out of their mouth and could never tell if they actually liked me or were just playing me for a fool. It gave me some guidelines and things to watch for that surprisingly do work with most women.

I already know I am getting some snickering from ya'll about this but it helped me not only with dating but with my relationship afterwards. It's amazing what you can learn about someone from their body language.

[stevew]

It is much easier to get called up to the majors if you get a spot on the 40 man roster. Granted you miss out on the opportunities that minor league free agency may offer. But, hey, you aren't out of options yet.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Why women lose the dating game

Any truth to this viewpoint?

Sure. It's obviously a generalization, but I encounter plenty of women in this situation. Plus the personality traits that engender success in business are often polar opposites of those that make for healthy personal relationships.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Do you believe that men just value things differently than women do? Is being a highly-successful, highly-educated women as attractive to men as they think it should be?

In my opinion, yes, I believe we do. I think women are more focused on how financially stable or 'successful' a man is.

For example: you could have an ok looking guy that works at Burger King, probably won't get the time of day from a lot of women. Now take that same ok looking guy and now he's an executive making a nice chunk of change, he'll have a whole heck of lot more women giving him their number. I don't think most guys care how much a woman makes or where she works, as long as he finds her attractive.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I already know I am getting some snickering from ya'll about this but it helped me not only with dating but with my relationship afterwards. It's amazing what you can learn about someone from their body language.

In 2002, I would have laughed and called you a loser.

In 2012, I just bought the Kindle editions of both of those books. Thanks!

(Joe Navarro wrote a poker specific book on body language, and spent decades as a counterintelligence agent in the FBI, so I know he knows what he's talking about....or at least, he made me think he knows what he's talking about. Haven't had the chance to really put the info in the poker book to practice yet.)

[sterlingice]

I really enjoyed the body language book. However, I also discovered that I'm worthless at reading body language. I know the theory but I can't put it into practice.

SI

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Why women lose the dating game

Any truth to this viewpoint?

I felt this way when I was first out there again after being married a long time. It's a feeding frenzy at times. I enjoyed being picky and learned a lot about dating that I never knew in my 20s.

But the one constant is that relationships don't work without a lot of common goals.

In the distant past (and even today in many parts of the world), your family was connected to a community and helped arrange your marriage.

As we've become more independent and more Hallmarky-romantic, that's become an antiquated notion. Social structures in communities are dissolving. Now, most of us are completely on our own when it comes to finding partners.

To help us, we have these dating sites, where anyone can approach anyone without fear. The positive... if you're somewhat sentient you can have a new date every day of the week. The negative... if you're somewhat sentient there are simply too many people to choose from. Not that they're all approaching you at once, but that you have to develop a sensible algorithm for evaluating people from a tiny bit of information (for the most part, just a picture and a few generic words).

So, everyone is lumped into this big pool, and most of that pool is completely unsuitable for you. The women who dare post pretty pictures are approached 100 times a day. They're frustrated as they naturally choose the alpha males and find that there are many guys out there who enjoy sexual tourism because they can do it. The more you learn about how to seduce attractive women, the more addictive it becomes. And you get better at it. The most attractive women are, by and large, making the worst personal choices on these sites.

Unattractive women are frustrated because just about all of the men are chasing attractive women. If you don't post a picture, guys will still meet you, but they might be cruel (intentionally or unintentionally) when they do. If you do post a picture, guys won't respond to you.

The biggest problem out there is that a good percentage of the women aren't going to attract men because they're not attractive. And a good percentage of the men aren't going to attract women because they can't write or don't have a decent job (unemployment being as big a turnoff to women as 50 extra pounds is to men). So that's a lot of frustrated, unhappy people flooding the market. And then you add a good percentage who are "not willing to settle" and insist on an alpha male (like the article suggests) or, on the male side, a much younger and more attractive woman.

On another board I'm on, I've heard many men complain that they've messaged 50 women without a single response. Well, who are they messaging? Probably the top 10% who are getting 100 messages a day and are either off the site in a week or are focusing their attention on the alpha males who are playing them.

It's a mess out there.

The best advice I can give is to be as fully introspective as possible and make a realistic assessment of what you can hope to find out there. When I did the online dating thing (working at home, not being comfortable at bars or clubs, not having any family in the area - it's pretty much the only way I'm going to meet someone), I had about a 40% response rate to messages. That's because I stuck to my own age group. And I gave a positive response to about 2% of the women who messaged me. So many people are quite unrealistic about their prospects.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I already know I am getting some snickering from ya'll about this but it helped me not only with dating but with my relationship afterwards. It's amazing what you can learn about someone from their body language.

Absolutely. Learning to read body language will save you from a lot of dating frustration.

I think the secret is realizing that sometimes, you don't read anything because she simply isn't interested. No matter how much you want her to be interested. Wanting something badly doesn't mean you're going to get it.

You either accept that some women don't like you, or you whine that you can't read body language.

[cuervo72]

I was interested in trying to read body language twenty years ago, but never really learned to. As such, I Just assumed that women didn't like me!

I've only seen one half of the dating equation detailed in the article - that of a 20-something (well, started younger than that even) non-alpha. And no, I didn't get that many dates. Would I have had better luck as I got older? Perhaps. Maybe even likely. But that's academic, as I got married at 24 when I stumbled upon my wife.

I think to some extent non-alphas might be quite willing to settle down early given that, well, there really is no guarantee when/if the next good woman will come along. If that woman deems them good enough to stick around that is (my wife was, but that may be atypical; she came from a conservative background and her mom and sister had both married well younger than she did at 27). But if they don't? Yeah, giving up a position where they suddenly have leverage may be a tough sell.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I guess to follow up my prior post...there were two books I read that helped me with my dating life. A friend of mine pointed me to a book called: What Every BODY is Saying: An Ex-FBI Agent's Guide to Speed-Reading People [Paperback] by Joe Navarro. I used it as guide to help me deal with coaches on the sidelines because I could immediately tell if they were lying...being passive-aggressive and how to handle the situation. Because you can mask your words but not your body language.

That book referenced another one called Love Signals by David Givens. I'll be the first to admit that I was clueless when I was dating. I took all women for the exact words that came out of their mouth and could never tell if they actually liked me or were just playing me for a fool. It gave me some guidelines and things to watch for that surprisingly do work with most women.

I already know I am getting some snickering from ya'll about this but it helped me not only with dating but with my relationship afterwards. It's amazing what you can learn about someone from their body language.

Brian, if you recall, you recommended both of these books to me personally last year, and I did buy both of them. I unfortunately never got to Navarro's book (it's still on the to read list for me, haha, I can still picture exactly where it is in my "library"), but I did read through Love Signals, and that book is awesome. I don't think it's silly at all to recommend it, and although I haven't read Navarro's book yet, my understanding from my own research is that he's a real master at this stuff.

Only reason I don't want people to read these books is because I enjoy having the advantage.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

In my opinion, yes, I believe we do. I think women are more focused on how financially stable or 'successful' a man is.

For example: you could have an ok looking guy that works at Burger King, probably won't get the time of day from a lot of women. Now take that same ok looking guy and now he's an executive making a nice chunk of change, he'll have a whole heck of lot more women giving him their number. I don't think most guys care how much a woman makes or where she works, as long as he finds her attractive.

Interesting enough, Kevin O'Leary, of ABC's Shark, created a little stir on his CNBC show yesterday:

[Comey]

I met someone...not online, but through my part-time job. I wonder if that disqualifies me from discussing her here.

....

I took an extra shift at the YMCA two Sundays ago; I work Saturdays and Sundays from 7-11 as a wellness and sports instructor. The free membership is worth it alone...that I get paid to talk to people and watch College Football Gameday is bonus.

Anyway, I took the extra shift so I could watch football, to be honest. The extra money is nice, so to get paid to watch football...boom. And on the three TVs were two football games, and then CNN reporting that awful shooting in Wisconsin. And there was a woman who was looking at the TVs as she was on the elliptical, looking as if she was deciding she didn't care for anything on them. I walked over and offered to change one. She is quite pretty, and I like that my job forces me to talk to pretty women, too (and I get to learn some workout things, as I've stalled there).

She said no, it was okay, and I chatted for another 30 seconds, before letting her back to her workout. Afterwards, she came back over and talked to me for another fifteen minutes or so. Kind of surprising, but people at the Y are extremely friendly (I am writing from here now, as it has power, internet and hot water, three things my house does not possess). I found out she's brand new to the area, doesn't know anyone...we're kind of in the same boat.

Since then, we've hung out several times, and I got some very good signs out of her last night. Slow is good, and I like that I actually had to approach her, even if my job allows me that out. We're going out after she gets off work tonight, and I may make a move. Don't know yet. I was going to last night, actually, but these two guys across the street prevented that. Oh well...no need to rush.

As always, no idea where it goes...but I'm going to just take time with this, get to know her, and see where things go. I found out she loves to play poker, so we are probably going to do that tonight.

Now back to your regularly scheduled online dating thread....

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Interesting enough, Kevin O'Leary, of ABC's Shark, created a little stir on his CNBC show yesterday:

That dude can not be serious. Sounds like he just stepped out of the 1950s.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Brian, if you recall, you recommended both of these books to me personally last year, and I did buy both of them. I unfortunately never got to Navarro's book (it's still on the to read list for me, haha, I can still picture exactly where it is in my "library"), but I did read through Love Signals, and that book is awesome. I don't think it's silly at all to recommend it, and although I haven't read Navarro's book yet, my understanding from my own research is that he's a real master at this stuff.

Only reason I don't want people to read these books is because I enjoy having the advantage.

Glad they helped you out!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Interesting enough, Kevin O'Leary, of ABC's Shark, created a little stir on his CNBC show yesterday:

From the way he treats the women (both the "pitchers" and the fellow "Sharks" on that show, color me unsurprised. Guy has always struck me as a colossal douchebag. Successful sure, but an asshole.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

That dude can not be serious. Sounds like he just stepped out of the 1950s.

I agree-though I think he really meant one parent, not women (kind of sounds like the female hosts were trying to twist his words a little).

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Comey

I met someone...not online, but through my part-time job. I wonder if that disqualifies me from discussing her here.

....

I took an extra shift at the YMCA two Sundays ago; I work Saturdays and Sundays from 7-11 as a wellness and sports instructor. The free membership is worth it alone...that I get paid to talk to people and watch College Football Gameday is bonus.

Anyway, I took the extra shift so I could watch football, to be honest. The extra money is nice, so to get paid to watch football...boom. And on the three TVs were two football games, and then CNN reporting that awful shooting in Wisconsin. And there was a woman who was looking at the TVs as she was on the elliptical, looking as if she was deciding she didn't care for anything on them. I walked over and offered to change one. She is quite pretty, and I like that my job forces me to talk to pretty women, too (and I get to learn some workout things, as I've stalled there).

She said no, it was okay, and I chatted for another 30 seconds, before letting her back to her workout. Afterwards, she came back over and talked to me for another fifteen minutes or so. Kind of surprising, but people at the Y are extremely friendly (I am writing from here now, as it has power, internet and hot water, three things my house does not possess). I found out she's brand new to the area, doesn't know anyone...we're kind of in the same boat.

Since then, we've hung out several times, and I got some very good signs out of her last night. Slow is good, and I like that I actually had to approach her, even if my job allows me that out. We're going out after she gets off work tonight, and I may make a move. Don't know yet. I was going to last night, actually, but these two guys across the street prevented that. Oh well...no need to rush.

As always, no idea where it goes...but I'm going to just take time with this, get to know her, and see where things go. I found out she loves to play poker, so we are probably going to do that tonight.

Now back to your regularly scheduled online dating thread....

Just be careful in not falling into the friend zone.

[Comey]

I'm not in it, nor am I falling into it. I'm confident of that.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Comey

I'm not in it, nor am I falling into it. I'm confident of that.

Honestly, if you've hung out that many times and haven;t made a physical move, you are probably falling into the friend zone. You need to make a move, doesn't mean it has to be a successful one, but she needs to know you are a man and she is a woman and you are attracted to her.

[wade moore]

For this thread's standards, Comey is pulling some major tail... and we're critiquing his game?

[Lathum]

I agree with the friend zone, was the first thing I thought of when I read it.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by wade moore

For this thread's standards, Comey is pulling some major tail... and we're critiquing his game?

That's kind of what I thought.

[Comey]

I have planned to the past two nights; reasons beyond my control have cost me. We've both indicated that we're interested in what the other has to offer...but we're also both pretty traditional. And I'm an admitted hopeless romantic; I want that first kiss to be just right.

We stayed out til 3 last night, sharing ghost stories in pitch black, as our town was still without power. I had said, during our story-sharing, that it would be creepy if the lights came back on while we were there.

She was sharing one of her stories (she has some good ones) when I saw a yellow light out of the corner of my right eye. I thought a car was coming, but that would be odd, because a car couldn't come that way. She noticed it too, and we both looked.

It was a house light.

Then we saw more. And more. And they were on all over the place.

It was sufficiently creepy. Like some Walking Dead thing when your spot gets blown up, and the zombies are coming to feast.

Anyway, a move will be made, and very soon. I'm really going after the slow thing, but understand the need for a move sooner than later. I'm now thinking tomorrow night, as we're likely heading up to Hartford to check out a rather awesome band (named best band in CT by several agencies...I've seen them and agree with how legit they are). And I will just go for it.

[SkippyDies]

Comey dude you know the situation on the ground bro. Anytime you get an audience w/the princess 2 nites in a row you must be doing something right. If she is new to town and has no one shes connected w/like she has w/you the you are probably fine.

I would caution you against trying to make perfect the enemy of the good but so long as you are seeing her mad soon it should be salvagable as there is a lot working in your favor here.

Keep up the good work man.

[Logan]

My first kiss with my now fiancee occurred when we were drunk at a bar, and yes it was sloppy. We had met earlier that night at a friend's apartment, talked a bit, and then talked more when we were at the bar. At some point, you just gotta go for it.

[Comey]

Originally Posted by SkippyDies

Comey dude you know the situation on the ground bro. Anytime you get an audience w/the princess 2 nites in a row you must be doing something right. If she is new to town and has no one shes connected w/like she has w/you the you are probably fine.

I would caution you against trying to make perfect the enemy of the good but so long as you are seeing her mad soon it should be salvagable as there is a lot working in your favor here.

Keep up the good work man.

I've seen her a lot recently. We played basketball together yesterday (she now owes me a print of one of her pictures), and we have a bowling bet. We may go to Bluff Point this afternoon for awhile...or I may just see her at the Y (as she goes mid-day to work out, and since I'm off today, I'll be going in a little while to go run ten miles as I prep for a race on Sunday; as of now, she's coming to be my personal photographer, and go to the afterparty with me).

So far, so good. Just gotta seal that deal. I thought I would have two nights ago, and last night...I'm just ready to do it. ; )

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by wade moore

For this thread's standards, Comey is pulling some major tail... and we're critiquing his game?

Not critiquing, just offering some friendly advice or warning from personal experiences so he can close the deal.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Logan

My first kiss with my now fiancee occurred when we were drunk at a bar, and yes it was sloppy. We had met earlier that night at a friend's apartment, talked a bit, and then talked more when we were at the bar. At some point, you just gotta go for it.

My best first kiss moment:

Met up with a woman from Okstupid at a bar we both knew. On the way back to the train we were talking about getting together again & she said it would have to wait a week as she was getting on a plane the next morning to lay on a beach in DR for the next week. I stopped walking, looked deep into her eyes, said "I hate you so much right now" and kissed her. Deeply. Passionately. And well.