Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[JonInMiddleGA]

[quote=tarcone;3096033]Really?
You think ABC would rather have Kentucky vs. Vanderbilt over Ohio St. vs. Wisconsin?

Doubtful. the B1G brings in the 2nd most revenue of the conferences. And soon it will be right there with the SEC. Or surpass them. Its the B1Gs turn to cash in.

Pay per game? Maybe and the networks would jump.
Fox Sports? They would LOVE to have the B1G. They are desperately trying to beat ESPN. The B1G helps that tremendously.

I think you underestimate the B1G.

And I think you, almost comically, overestimate how many people actually give a damn about the teams in the conference (aside from the ones I referenced)

Fox Sports isn't beating ESPN with or without the Big 10. It closes up the gap some, sure, but it doesn't make things suddenly a horse race.

Pay per game? I don't think of that in terms of even being a "network" issue. At that point you're a PPV-provider, that wasn't even part of the context I was looking at when I said "networks", and honestly still isn't. It's an entirely different discussion.

[Logan]

Fox Sports is reportedly close to a landmark deal for a share of Big Ten rights

[tarcone]

Huh

[Kodos]

For Big Ten, Jim Delany, new deal is a stunningly big deal

[tarcone]

So Georgia Tech isnt important to the B1G?
Sure sounds like it will be.

[CU Tiger]

Sounds like the B1G maybe selling the Big 10 Network as part of this negotiation if rumors coming out are true.

Plus its quite the spin to say that a short term contract in this era of downward spiraling cable numbers is a positive.

[tarcone]

The ACC, also known as Almost Completely Caput

[tarcone]

The average Big Ten school has nearly 10,000 more undergraduate students than the average SEC school. That’s a big difference.

Penn State has the largest living alumni base in the nation, at over 600,000. Indiana has 580,000 while Michigan has 540,000. Ohio State has over 500,000, as does Minnesota. Rutgers is over 450,000, Minnesota over 435,000, Illinois has over 420,000.

Auburn? 200,000. Heck, Iowa has 251,000 living alums and they are one of the smaller schools in the Big Ten.

Eyeballs.

http://hawkeyenation.com/wp-content/...7.25.27-PM.jpg

This link shows TV homes

Atlanta 9 and the NC Metro areas 22 qnd 25

And there is a possibility that Delaney goes after 4 teams, taking the B1G to 18. The 4? Geo Tech, North Carolina, Notre Dame and Texas.
If anyone can do this, its Delaney. Forbes named Jim Delany the most powerful man in college sports in 2015.
The man has the muscle and wherewithall to do it.

[bronconick]

Stewart Mandel
‏@slmandel

New twist in satellite camp ban. Pac-12 commish Larry Scott says their rep, Dan Guerrero, "did not vote the way he was supposed to vote."

Stewart Mandel
‏@slmandel

Larry Scott confirmed that 11 of the 12 Pac-12 schools did not support a satellite camp ban. Would not say the 12th, but, now you can guess.

4:52 PM - 20 Apr 2016

I'm guessing UCLA's AD might be off some Christmas card lists

[MrBug708]

@GeorgeSchroeder
Scott: 11 of Pac-12’s schools did not want satellite camps banned. Which school wanted ban? “I’m not gonna say. Form your own conclusion."

@GeorgeSchroeder
Pac-12 commish Larry Scott says UCLA AD Dan Guerrero, voting for a ban on satellite camps, “did not vote the way he was supposed to vote."

@GeorgeSchroeder
While Pac-12 didn’t want satellite camp ban, some in the league are flabbergasted the concern over Guerrero’s vote became a public spat.

[MrBug708]

Satellite camp ban: UCLA AD Dan Guerrero explains his vote

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by tarcone

And there is a possibility that Delaney goes after 4 teams, taking the B1G to 18. The 4? Geo Tech, North Carolina, Notre Dame and Texas.
If anyone can do this, its Delaney. Forbes named Jim Delany the most powerful man in college sports in 2015.
The man has the muscle and wherewithall to do it.

They have been after Notre Dame since the 90s. I doubt UNC moves and gives up the great tradition/rivalries as maybe the #1 CBB school in the nation. Texas seems more like a SEC program IMO. I have a hard time seeing them in the B1G.

[Young Drachma]

Flipping The Field: What we wish college football expansion and realignment looked like

[digamma]

I'd like a hit of whatever that guy is on.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of talk in this area that the B12 hopes to add two members this summer. Sounds like Cincinnati is probably a shoe-in and Memphis is campaigning for the other spot. Colorado State has interest too and would be an interesting fit now that they're building a new $250M football stadium.

[CU Tiger]

What about UCF?
2nd largest University in the country and in Orlando.

[MacroGuru]

BYU isn't necessarily out on that, we aren't as sold on our 3rd tier rights, we can give them up if required.

From what I have heard it's BYU and Cinci, however we never expect it anymore.

It wouldn't surprise me to see them take Cinci and Memphis.

I have a feeling we will be the odd man out, due to the religious ties. I do think we will secure scheduling agreements with the PAC and B12 if that does happen.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

BYU isn't necessarily out on that, we aren't as sold on our 3rd tier rights, we can give them up if required.

From what I have heard it's BYU and Cinci, however we never expect it anymore.

It wouldn't surprise me to see them take Cinci and Memphis.

I have a feeling we will be the odd man out, due to the religious ties. I do think we will secure scheduling agreements with the PAC and B12 if that does happen.

I think that West Virginia is the main reason there won't be a BYU. Sounds like they're already not terribly pleased with the travel and have basically said they'd move on to a new conference before having BYU in the same conference just from a travel perspective. They want more teams on their side of the territory and it sounds like the B12 is willing to grant that wish.

[dawgfan]

There are some rumors going around right now. A well-connected booster (long time friends with multiple former conference commissioners) on our boards posted some of the wild talk going on right now:

• Notre Dame to Big Ten
• Jerry Jones essentially buying Arkansas to the Big 12, with Texas willing to convert the Longhorn Network into the Big 12 Network, and Cincinnati, UCF and Houston the main contenders to be the 12th team
• The Pac-12 kicking the tires with UNLV and possibly Colorado State (with a chance BYU could get consideration if they dropped their objections to playing on Sundays)

Probably just talk without a lot of chance of happening. The Pac-12 part in particular seems far-fetched - while I could see UNLV being a good longer-term investment, I don't see what Colorado State brings, and I just don't see the Pac-12 Presidents lifting their academic objections to BYU.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

There are some rumors going around right now. A well-connected booster (long time friends with multiple former conference commissioners) on our boards posted some of the wild talk going on right now:

• Notre Dame to Big Ten
• Jerry Jones essentially buying Arkansas to the Big 12, with Texas willing to convert the Longhorn Network into the Big 12 Network, and Cincinnati, UCF and Houston the main contenders to be the 12th team
• The Pac-12 kicking the tires with UNLV and possibly Colorado State (with a chance BYU could get consideration if they dropped their objections to playing on Sundays)

Probably just talk without a lot of chance of happening. The Pac-12 part in particular seems far-fetched - while I could see UNLV being a good longer-term investment, I don't see what Colorado State brings, and I just don't see the Pac-12 Presidents lifting their academic objections to BYU.

I didn't mention it before, but the Longhorn Network to Big 12 Network change is a matter of when, not if. The B12 members aren't willing to move forward with anything other than that.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Notre Dame to Big Ten

When ND signed the ACC non revenue sports and football scheduling contract a stipulation is that if and when they ever join a conference in football they have to play 5 years in the ACC. The weasel clause out of that is "equal to 100% of ND AD Tier 1 TV rights for a period of 5 years plus interest paid up front, plus the entirety of any subsequent conference affiliation revenues for the same 5 year period."

Far be it from me to ever approve of anything John Swofford does, but he got that one right.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

When ND signed the ACC non revenue sports and football scheduling contract a stipulation is that if and when they ever join a conference in football they have to play 5 years in the ACC. The weasel clause out of that is "equal to 100% of ND AD Tier 1 TV rights for a period of 5 years plus interest paid up front, plus the entirety of any subsequent conference affiliation revenues for the same 5 year period."

Far be it from me to ever approve of anything John Swofford does, but he got that one right.

I've heard this before, probably in other words, but it seemed like such an extreme penalty compared to what they would actually be receiving in return that I always figured there was some kind of clause in there, somewhere, that would give them an out. Just logically speaking would the ACC have said no to all of this if ND was only willing to give them two years of those rights? Seems unlikely.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

When ND signed the ACC non revenue sports and football scheduling contract a stipulation is that if and when they ever join a conference in football they have to play 5 years in the ACC. The weasel clause out of that is "equal to 100% of ND AD Tier 1 TV rights for a period of 5 years plus interest paid up front, plus the entirety of any subsequent conference affiliation revenues for the same 5 year period."

Far be it from me to ever approve of anything John Swofford does, but he got that one right.

Yeah, I know. Seems unlikely given the amount of money that the Big Ten would have to throw at the ACC to get Notre Dame out of that deal (I'm sure it would end up being less than 5 years plus interest, etc after getting negotiated/taken to court), but then again it also seems crazy that Jerry Jones would throw tens of millions of dollars at Arkansas just to get them out of the SEC and into the Big 12 for, I dunno, nostalgic reasons I guess?

All of those rumors seem highly unlikely to me, but the source is good. I would guess what he's hearing is high level conference and TV folks engaged in idle speculation without really drilling down on what's likely given all the various stipulations and deals already in place.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

All of those rumors seem highly unlikely to me, but the source is good. I would guess what he's hearing is high level conference and TV folks engaged in idle speculation without really drilling down on what's likely given all the various stipulations and deals already in place.

The stipulations and deals that are in place aren't as airtight as people think. There's all kinds of outs depending on number of teams left, if a certain number of teams agree, etc. Also, the whole Jerry Jones thing is ridiculous. The SEC has no exit charge. They can leave tomorrow without spending a penny. And if the rumor is that he's giving money to Arkansas to leave, that only further shows how good the SEC has it. No other conference has that problem.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

• The Pac-12 kicking the tires with UNLV and possibly Colorado State (with a chance BYU could get consideration if they dropped their objections to playing on Sundays)

From what I heard back when Utah was added, they were going to bring BYU on board, the AD's approved but the Presidents of Cal and Stanford objected, which because it wasn't 100%, they moved on.

BYU will never give up their Sunday play rule, it's who they are and they have walked away from Championships in the past because of it.

I would love to see BYU in a conference like the PAC or the BIG12, but I don't think it's going to happen.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Also, the whole Jerry Jones thing is ridiculous. The SEC has no exit charge. They can leave tomorrow without spending a penny. And if the rumor is that he's giving money to Arkansas to leave, that only further shows how good the SEC has it. No other conference has that problem.

I'm assuming him bribing the school is to cover the potential difference in revenue from dropping out of the SEC and their mega-TV deals and going to the Big-12 which still makes a lot of money, but not SEC money.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The stipulations and deals that are in place aren't as airtight as people think. There's all kinds of outs depending on number of teams left, if a certain number of teams agree, etc. Also, the whole Jerry Jones thing is ridiculous. The SEC has no exit charge. They can leave tomorrow without spending a penny. And if the rumor is that he's giving money to Arkansas to leave, that only further shows how good the SEC has it. No other conference has that problem.

Actually....

I looked into this a while back after you and I volleyed the idea of conference dissolution.

I can only speak for the ACC. And this is a direct quote emailed to me from someone who would be in the know on any contract negotiations that happen with the ACC offices.

The ACC is in an interesting position. They are a separate and autonomous entity, a legal corporation that also owns a member based affiliation of which schools are members of. No amount of dissension will dissolve the corporation whose autonomous articles are filed with the Attorney General in multiple states.

What does that all mean? Simple. Every team can take their ball and go home. The ACC still exists and all these member clubs still owe all their TV rights money to the ACC corporation. So even if everyone leaves, you create a Billion dollar company that doesn't have to do anything but draw a check. So you can bet your tail that 1 school wouldnt leave, they would remain and be due the entirety of the conferences TV proceeds. Imagine Wake Forest with a $1,000,000,000 athletic department budget. Where else are they going to go to get that kind of pay out. And remember this would be assuming that the ACC as a conference got no money from their existing deals assuming that they are voided by the lack of a schedule.

Of course in that scenario you have an obvious case of collusion because why would teams leave with no where to go? They wouldn't so if they leave another institution has to have colluded and/or tampered so on top of all their TV money they would also have a series of damages cases.

Its fun time filler, but for the time being movement has stalled with the exception of independents joining P5 conferences. And of course several B12 schools arent even sure they WANT a championship game.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Logan

I've heard this before, probably in other words, but it seemed like such an extreme penalty compared to what they would actually be receiving in return that I always figured there was some kind of clause in there, somewhere, that would give them an out. Just logically speaking would the ACC have said no to all of this if ND was only willing to give them two years of those rights? Seems unlikely.

The ACC's position was they wanted ND as a full time member for football or they wouldnt grant Olympic sport acceptance. Considering the hammer that is the GOR deal, this was a huge "win" for ND to get their cake (olympic sport opponents) and eat it too (keep their NBC deal and independent status.)

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

There are some rumors going around right now. A well-connected booster (long time friends with multiple former conference commissioners) on our boards posted some of the wild talk going on right now:

• Notre Dame to Big Ten
• Jerry Jones essentially buying Arkansas to the Big 12, with Texas willing to convert the Longhorn Network into the Big 12 Network, and Cincinnati, UCF and Houston the main contenders to be the 12th team
• The Pac-12 kicking the tires with UNLV and possibly Colorado State (with a chance BYU could get consideration if they dropped their objections to playing on Sundays)

Probably just talk without a lot of chance of happening. The Pac-12 part in particular seems far-fetched - while I could see UNLV being a good longer-term investment, I don't see what Colorado State brings, and I just don't see the Pac-12 Presidents lifting their academic objections to BYU.

Ugh... okay, the Arkansas - Big 12 rumors has been going on forever. There's even been talk that Arkansas+ND would be going to the Big 12 with TLN turning into the Big 12 network with Arkansas being given a boat load of cash since 2011. There was last year's rumor of LSU and Arkansas leaving for the Big 12 even last year. Arkansas is seen as a key piece based on location for both conferences. We were the piece when it started in the 90's and we will be the piece now that would cause everyone to make the move to 16.

I just don't think it's ever gonna happen.

Location plays a key part on why some want Arkansas moved to the Big 12. We are 11th in the SEC for distance to other schools. I just don't think it will happen because of the brand name SEC vs Big 12. You would have to convince 3 other schools to leave and and go to the Big 12 (LSU, TAMU, MIZZ) for it to happen probably (unless that ND crap starts again). Arkansas won't leave with Cincy or Houston just because they made that mistake before. The original SEC move was FAU, TAMU, Tex and Ark until the Texas schools got cold feet one night.

11. Arkansas--Avg. miles: 493
Athens—629
Auburn—550
Baton Rouge—425
Columbia—757
Como—225
CSTX—397
Gainesville—818
Knoxville—574
Lexington—551
Nashville—413
Oxford—288
Starkville—354
Tuscaloosa—426

----

UNLV to the PAC-12. You mean the conference that has bowl ties to the city and has their conference basketball tournament here? As crazy as this sounds, it probably all hinges on the Raiders Stadium proposal in town. I remember when Utah joined and everyone said they would get their asses handed to them... it never happened. I could CSU going giving Colorado a dance partner and UNLV-Utah being combined. BYU won't get another chance probably because of the Sunday issues.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

The ACC's position was they wanted ND as a full time member for football or they wouldnt grant Olympic sport acceptance. Considering the hammer that is the GOR deal, this was a huge "win" for ND to get their cake (olympic sport opponents) and eat it too (keep their NBC deal and independent status.)

How much do you think you can conservatively estimate five years (in a lump sum payment) of ND's tier 1 rights and the TV revenues they'd get in a conference? $40MM per/$200MM total? I'd guess more but for the purposes of what I'm asking...that's a lot of money to be willing to part with just to have a home for your Olympic sports for a few years.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Ugh... okay, the Arkansas - Big 12 rumors has been going on forever. There's even been talk that Arkansas+ND would be going to the Big 12 with TLN turning into the Big 12 network with Arkansas being given a boat load of cash since 2011. There was last year's rumor of LSU and Arkansas leaving for the Big 12 even last year. Arkansas is seen as a key piece based on location for both conferences. We were the piece when it started in the 90's and we will be the piece now that would cause everyone to make the move to 16.

I just don't think it's ever gonna happen.

If these rumors are happening, I figure it's basically Jerry Jones spouting off, nostalgic perhaps about old rivalries. I also doubt Arkansas would really want to leave the SEC.

UNLV to the PAC-12. You mean the conference that has bowl ties to the city and has their conference basketball tournament here? As crazy as this sounds, it probably all hinges on the Raiders Stadium proposal in town. I remember when Utah joined and everyone said they would get their asses handed to them... it never happened. I could CSU going giving Colorado a dance partner and UNLV-Utah being combined. BYU won't get another chance probably because of the Sunday issues.

Yeah, UNLV could make some sense. Utah was in a much better position in terms of the strength of their football program - I think UNLV would get their asses handed to them the first few years (hell, look at how much Colorado has continued to struggle). But I also think the prestige boost of joining the P12 would help the Rebels actually have a chance to be good in football, and of course the precedent is already there in basketball.

Not only are there the many ties to the conference in terms of bowls and the basketball tournament, there's a potential TV audience to mine (which is the main reason to make such a move). And the lack of a big TV audience is why I don't see Colorado State making much sense for the conference. They are not a brand and are not associated with a TV audience that would do anything but diminish the per-team TV money distribution for the rest of the conference.

BYU would potentially have enough TV draw to be a contender, but I have a hard time seeing the issues that have prevented that move in the past (playing on Sundays, academic/research freedom at the school, etc) being overcome. Unless the conference is faced with a "you have to field a 16-team conference if you want to join the rest of us in a super-league" type of ultimatum, I think the conference would just as soon stand-pat.

[tarcone]

I think the ACC is in a dire position. Being in the middle of the B1G and the SEC.

If those conferences come calling, they are going to go after the ACC. And if there are 3 schools left in the ACC, buy outs are moot.

I think the B12 is safer. With Texas and Oklahoma staying put, there is a more stable base. Of course that could change if the B1G goes after Texas. Or Oklahoma if they can exclude Okie St. But I think Okie St. is tied to Oklahoma by a state law.

[digamma]

I wouldn't call the ACC's position dire. Their 2015 distributions from the conference were up over 40% from 2014, at about $27-28 million per school. They are slated to do better than that for 2016 due to the NCAA tournament success which is worth another $3.6 million or so per school.

It would take a ridiculous financial package to make it worthwhile for someone to move (and for someone to take them) factoring settlement costs (and with that I'm acknowledging that a leaver doesn't pay the full buyout, but they don't pay 0 either).

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

BYU would potentially have enough TV draw to be a contender, but I have a hard time seeing the issues that have prevented that move in the past (playing on Sundays, academic/research freedom at the school, etc) being overcome. Unless the conference is faced with a "you have to field a 16-team conference if you want to join the rest of us in a super-league" type of ultimatum, I think the conference would just as soon stand-pat.

If it came to 16 is a must and the Pac-12 couldn't break up the Big 12 then I think they grab Boise and SDSU who are affiliated members and then the UNLV/CSU scenario to just own every state on the west coast. I'm not sure they all fit but there aren't that many option out west especially if BYU sticks to their policies. Boise would be the smallest school out of them at 21k but it's not that bad.

UNLV's biggest problem is the school isn't even 60 years old so they would have to be betting on potential with them.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I think the B12 is safer. With Texas and Oklahoma staying put, there is a more stable base.

Huh?

Duke, UNC, NCSU Anchor the ACC.

When the ACC was in a "dire" position was when the Big 12 came calling and FSU and Clemson were about to walk. For years the tobacco road boys viewed football as an after thought to their basketball party. That woke everyone up. Clemson and FSU sit at the proverbial heads of the table now and everyone acknowledges the cash cow that is football.

I dont think many folks writing about UNC going to XYZ conference realize that #1 the ACC commissioner is a UNC grad, the former UNC AD and his nephew runs Raycom which is a major cash cow and one could argue the first conference network.

Secondly, while I dont share this sentiment, you have to live here to understand the arrogance that UNC and Duke carry about their academic prestige. While the rest of the world recognizes the quality institution that say Michigan is, the "Public Ivy" crowd would have an impossible time taking a backseat to anyone. And they have that position as masters of their domain.

This is more disjointed thoughts than a cohesive argument but I can assure you UNC and Duke arent looking to leave. And neither is going anywhere without the other, or without NCSU and Wake tagging along for that matter.

In a doomsday scenario I could see the "Southern 4" (GT, Clem, FSU, UM) leaving before anyone else and I think that is beyond unlikely.

[tarcone]

Im not saying the ACC isnt a strong conference in terms of revenue and education.
But the B1G is sniffing around already. And dont think if the B1G moves, the SEC follows suit.
Money and arrogance can always be overcome.
And if UNC is a Public Ivy League type school, dont you think the multi-billion dollar research money in the B1G, could play a part in UNC jumping to the B1G?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Im not saying the ACC isnt a strong conference in terms of revenue and education.
But the B1G is sniffing around already. And dont think if the B1G moves, the SEC follows suit.
Money and arrogance can always be overcome.
And if UNC is a Public Ivy League type school, dont you think the multi-billion dollar research money in the B1G, could play a part in UNC jumping to the B1G?

UNC runs the ACC. If they move to the Big 10 they have to accept being just another school. That's a tough pill to swallow.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

If it came to 16 is a must and the Pac-12 couldn't break up the Big 12 then I think they grab Boise and SDSU who are affiliated members and then the UNLV/CSU scenario to just own every state on the west coast. I'm not sure they all fit but there aren't that many option out west especially if BYU sticks to their policies. Boise would be the smallest school out of them at 21k but it's not that bad.

UNLV's biggest problem is the school isn't even 60 years old so they would have to be betting on potential with them.

Yeah, if they can't poach from the Big 12 then there would have to be a lot of betting on potential. I think SDSt has some potential - similar to UNLV, if you put them in a Power-5 conference I think the prestige boost could turn them into a legit program. And while San Diego is already by default in the P12 TV footprint, I would think they'd gain some additional eyeballs with SDSt in there.

But that's the issue here in that outside of maybe BYU and Boise State, none of these programs bring with them an established and reasonably big TV audience. UNLV and SDSt have some potential, but I just don't see Colorado State bringing anything more than simply adding a school because you have to. Not that there's any more obvious candidates - BYU has a number of issues that put them at odds with the P12 leadership and none of Wyoming, Colorado State or the New Mexico schools bring much in the way of TV market potential. I guess they could look to Texas for one of the mid-major schools. Rice has the academic pedigree the conference loves and is in Houston, but that's a huge bet there that the Owls could ever become a program good enough to draw significant eyeballs in that state.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Atocep

UNC runs the ACC. If they move to the Big 10 they have to accept being just another school. That's a tough pill to swallow.

I'll throw out a "what if", and you tell me if it realistic or plausible.
B1G offers UVA, Geo Tech, UNC and Texas. Thats 3 teams out of the ACC.
Dont you think the SEC is coming in and grabbing what it can? FSU, Clemson, NC St. and another team?

Could this happen?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I'll throw out a "what if", and you tell me if it realistic or plausible.
B1G offers UVA, Geo Tech, UNC and Texas. Thats 3 teams out of the ACC.
Dont you think the SEC is coming in and grabbing what it can? FSU, Clemson, NC St. and another team?

Could this happen?

Texas and UNC both are positions where they have a lot of power in their current conference. The reason I don't see these big conference realignment plans happening is because both are going to be extremely reluctant to give that up. Both also lose power with every school that gets added, which is part of why Texas has drug its heels on conference expansion (IMO).

Both schools give up their power by moving to another conference. UNC currently has NCState, Wake, and Duke that votes with them on pretty much everything they really want. You can also include BC on most things recently. Texas has Texas Tech, Baylor, and TCU.

UNC is also going to have no problem finding a home if the ACC implodes so there's absolutely no reason for them to be the first to jump. Same with Texas in the Big 12. Texas can find a home in any conference, any time they want. Why jump when you don't have to?

Both schools could wait until the Big 12 or ACC are nothing but a smoking pile of ashes and land in a great spot. They're in no rush to do anything.

[CU Tiger]

Florida and SC don't want Clemson and FSU in the SEC. If not for that Mizzou and aTm wouldn't be there now.

UNC goes nowhere without Duke ,period.

Go back to my statement, John swofford is ACC commiush and formerUNC AD and STILL sits on the special advisory board good UNC, they literally get whatever they want from. The ACC.

Assuming all that is overcome. How do you escapethge "irrevocable grant of rights" UNC literally couldn't make a penny off sports media right for over a decade. If the B1G tried to make it up, those funds would be due to the ACC....you really need to read up on the deal and understand what it would take to break it up.

[panerd]

You would think being the epicenter of the whole bathroom controversy isn't helping UNC much either. Much like Mizzou and the "concerned student" protests, right or wrong, this is what UNC is for the foreseeable future.

EDIT: I think it might be the other UNC that is the actual university involved but the point still stands that entire state is known for this.

[tarcone]

Money is becoming nothing to the B1G. I think they could afford to pay the "Get Out of the ACC" bill for a decade. Remember, the B1G is only signing a 6 year deal with Fox and, most likely, ESPN.
I believe the estimate each school will get around $36 million a year.
Shoot, the Iowa Admins are starting to talk about taking money from the Athletic department to help with the University as a whole. Iowa makes that much money.

Wont the SEC abandon the "We wont take Clemson and FSU" rhetoric? If the B1G raids the ACC first, doesn't the SEC have to follow suit?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Money is becoming nothing to the B1G. I think they could afford to pay the "Get Out of the ACC" bill for a decade.

You're paying it twice in that scenario. Once to the ACC (since they have a claim to the money) and then to the schools since, presumably, they'd not be inclined to just walk away from it for a decade.

At what point

Wont the SEC abandon the "We wont take Clemson and FSU" rhetoric?

Could happen, but it'd be over the dead bodies of SC and Florida. (And perhaps the third member of their pact, UGA, who has a role in the agreement in order to block Georgia Tech ... who I've never gotten any feeling would like to go back to the SEC anyway).

And since someone will likely do so, I'll go ahead & throw out the possibility that a hypothetical GT-to-Big10 move could cause Georgia to waver on that agreement ... but you'd be talking about the stuff of blood feuds for generations if that happened.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Money is becoming nothing to the B1G. I think they could afford to pay the "Get Out of the ACC" bill for a decade. Remember, the B1G is only signing a 6 year deal with Fox and, most likely, ESPN.
I believe the estimate each school will get around $36 million a year.
Shoot, the Iowa Admins are starting to talk about taking money from the Athletic department to help with the University as a whole. Iowa makes that much money.

Wont the SEC abandon the "We wont take Clemson and FSU" rhetoric? If the B1G raids the ACC first, doesn't the SEC have to follow suit?

You are missing the detail here.

The AD CAN NOT PROFIT FROM TV RIGHTS FOR THE DURATION.

Their TV share goes to the ACC. Then the B1G gives them a make up amount and that too goes to the ACC. All Tier 1 rights go to the ACC and any compensatory money paid. The schools would have to agree to basically live on borrowed fund for 10 years. Its a crazy stringent requirement. That is why Maryland jumped immediately when it was presented. The B1G Maryland offer had been on the table for over 2 years. Their president saw the draft of the GOR and bolted.

FWIW I told Clemson's President personally I thought we should have as well. The ACC GOR scares me for our future.

BTW Clemson has never taken a dime of University money to fund the AD and the AD has been the single largest donor to the general University fund for something like 41 of the past 50 years. Its nothing new.

[Logan]

I guarantee the GOR issue will never go away strictly with a payment by the letter of the contract.

[digamma]

Come on CU, I agree with you on this, but there's no need to embellish stuff. Clemson is what, a year or so out from trying to tack on a Student Activities Fee to tuition?

The Grant of Rights is a great marketing ploy, but we all know contracts are broken all the time and buyouts are not paid in full. It's the starting point of the negotiation, which for the ACC as a league is still a very good spot to be.

[albionmoonlight]

Y'all know a lot more about the ins and outs than I do.

I will say one thing from anectodatal observation. There is a sizable contingent of old school UNC fans that would be happy if the conference were just Duke, UNC, NCSt. and Wake Forest playing round robin basketball forever.

These folks reluctantly acknowledged that (1) expansion was necessary, and (2) football was king.

But it will be a harder sell to them to become part of a midwestern or southern geographic footprint and to leave Wake or Duke or State behind.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Y'all know a lot more about the ins and outs than I do.

I will say one thing from anectodatal observation. There is a sizable contingent of old school UNC fans that would be happy if the conference were just Duke, UNC, NCSt. and Wake Forest playing round robin basketball forever.

These folks reluctantly acknowledged that (1) expansion was necessary, and (2) football was king.

But it will be a harder sell to them to become part of a midwestern or southern geographic footprint and to leave Wake or Duke or State behind.

It's actually usually the other way around. Those kind of tight groupings of schools usually becoming voting blocks that sway how things play out one way or another. Look no further than the B12. It went from being a midwest-centered conference to moving its headquarters and its focus to Texas in no time at all based on the number of schools voting together in that area.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You're paying it twice in that scenario. Once to the ACC (since they have a claim to the money) and then to the schools since, presumably, they'd not be inclined to just walk away from it for a decade.

At what point



Could happen, but it'd be over the dead bodies of SC and Florida. (And perhaps the third member of their pact, UGA, who has a role in the agreement in order to block Georgia Tech ... who I've never gotten any feeling would like to go back to the SEC anyway).

And since someone will likely do so, I'll go ahead & throw out the possibility that a hypothetical GT-to-Big10 move could cause Georgia to waver on that agreement ... but you'd be talking about the stuff of blood feuds for generations if that happened.

Do they want to block FSU, Georgia Tech, etc. just so they can be the only SEC school in their respective states? Is that all it's about, or it there more?