The Obama Presidency - 2008 & 2012

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ace1914

In other news, looks like Las Vegas is mad at Obama...again.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_las_vegas

You would think someone would tell Obama at some point that Nevada was a key win for him during the election. Reid sounded pretty pissed about Obama's statement. He's got to be tired of Obama tossing his home state under the bus when he's fighting to be reelected.

[ace1914]

Ok, maybe I shouldn't say required. However, if I want decent healthcare, I do pay through an increased premium. More risk in the group, the higher my premium.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You would think someone would tell Obama at some point that Nevada was a key win for him during the election. Reid sounded pretty pissed about Obama's statement. He's got to be tired of Obama tossing his home state under the bus when he's fighting to be reelected.

I think that's trash. He's not saying something that isn't true. People are complaining about not having jobs, but yet they should go splurge in Vegas? We'll never maintain our #1 status with that attitude.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You would think someone would tell Obama at some point that Nevada was a key win for him during the election.

Well, which is it MBBF? Earlier you were complaining that Obama was acting like he was still in campaign mode, and now you are complaining that he isn't?

[Arles]

Yeah, I don't see the problem with what Obama said. At some point, we need to start hammering home the idea of personal responsibility when it comes to finances (heck, we should be going the same to the gov't). If that means the gambling community or pay day loan shops get their panties in a bind, so be it.

[molson]

"When times are tough, you tighten your belts," Obama said, according to a White House transcript of his appearance Tuesday at a high school in North Nashua, N.H.

"You don't go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage," Obama said. "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save for college. You prioritize. You make tough choices."

He's definitely right about that - though I don't think the words are ever supported by actions. When is the federal government going to make tough choices and tighten their belt? We saw criticism two pages ago (and I'm sure elsehwere on the internet) about a city trying to make tough choices.

So which is it?

(I do understand where the Nevada governor is coming from, when he said that Obama seems to have a "psychological hang-up" of using Las Vegas as an example of excessive spending).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Arles

Yes, it's our culture and the history of freedom in all choices we have. The Japanese haven't had fast food joints on every corner for the past 30 years. Their culture involves more focus on preparing fresh food and cooking meals. Our culture is an instant gratification one that wants to drive through a taco bell or McDonalds each night so that we don't have to cook and miss our favorite prime time TV show.

The same goes with many places in Europe that focus on street side markets, daily grocery shopping and preparing their own meals.

I think this notion that every person who picks up McDonalds is just some lazy bum who doesn't want to cook is a bad stereotype. Obesity is more preveland in poorer people in this country and can be attributed to having less time to cook based on having to work longer hours or lack of money. It's just much cheaper to eat unhealthy stuff.

Originally Posted by Arles

Education is fine, but it's not enough. That's like saying we can end crime in inner cities by simply improving the "crime is bad" education in local schools and boys clubs in those cities. We need to change our priorities to value preparing and using fresh food (and taking more time to make dinner) instead of just grabbing fast food because we're too tired/don't want to cook. It's ingrained in our culture and priorities right now.

If you ask the average person basic health facts regarding food, they won't know what the hell is going on. Ask the average 20 year old if drinking a lot of water will make them gain weight. Or if almonds are bad because they contain a lot of fat. As a society we have been told bad information for the last few decades. That fat is bad and the less a product has of it, the healthier it is.

Originally Posted by Arles

Honestly, the only way to change it is to penalize people who are obese. Maybe charge a higher health insurance rate if you have a BMI over a certain number. I know it's not fair and many people have legitimate issues that cause their obesity, but unless people pay more for their health care - they won't care about changing it.

I don't know about that. No one wants to be overweight. They may not have the motivation to fix it or the skills to do so, but they don't celebrate it. I think access to programs that educate and support people in weight loss is important. The Jenny Craig's of the world have been succesful in part due to their group aspect that offers support.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

My bad. Thought Grace was part of that lineup.

I would disagree with your characterization that there are no news shows on MSNBC and 2 on Fox. All of those shows deal directly with the current news. Just because there is some opinions voiced in regards to that news doesn't mean that they don't cover news.

It's still different. You don't turn to the editorial page of a newspaper for your news. You turn to it for entertainment and to read perspectives on the news. I think people today are finding out what is going on in the world through the internet. I didn't find out Michael Jackson died by watching the nightly news, I found out because the internet exploded.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by molson

"When times are tough, you tighten your belts," Obama said, according to a White House transcript of his appearance Tuesday at a high school in North Nashua, N.H.

"You don't go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage," Obama said. "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save for college. You prioritize. You make tough choices."

He's definitely right about that - though I don't think the words are ever supported by actions. When is the federal government going to make tough choices and tighten their belt? We saw criticism two pages ago (and I'm sure elsehwere on the internet) about a city trying to make tough choices.

So which is it?

(I do understand where the Nevada governor is coming from, when he said that Obama seems to have a "psychological hang-up" of using Las Vegas as an example of excessive spending).

So it would be better if he used Atlantic City? My pops and I, refer to gambling as an idiot tax. Sin City is the most well known place to pay the idiot tax. There was nothing wrong with Obama's statement.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Well, which is it MBBF? Earlier you were complaining that Obama was acting like he was still in campaign mode, and now you are complaining that he isn't?

Originally Posted by molson

"When times are tough, you tighten your belts," Obama said, according to a White House transcript of his appearance Tuesday at a high school in North Nashua, N.H.

"You don't go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage," Obama said. "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save for college. You prioritize. You make tough choices."

He's definitely right about that - though I don't think the words are ever supported by actions. When is the federal government going to make tough choices and tighten their belt? We saw criticism two pages ago (and I'm sure elsehwere on the internet) about a city trying to make tough choices.

So which is it?

Agreed. His words fall on deaf ear when compared to his actions. At this point, he might as well return to the campaign chatter of 2008 because when he starts pretending to care for citizen, no one believes him.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ace1914

So it would be better if he used Atlantic City? My pops and I, refer to gambling as an idiot tax. Sin City is the most well known place to pay the idiot tax. There was nothing wrong with Obama's statement.

Some would argue that the largest idiot tax is being run up in Washington D.C. by the same guy who believes that the citizens are the irresponsible ones.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

"When times are tough, you tighten your belts," Obama said, according to a White House transcript of his appearance Tuesday at a high school in North Nashua, N.H.

"You don't go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage," Obama said. "You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save for college. You prioritize. You make tough choices."

He's definitely right about that - though I don't think the words are ever supported by actions. When is the federal government going to make tough choices and tighten their belt? We saw criticism two pages ago (and I'm sure elsehwere on the internet) about a city trying to make tough choices.

So which is it?

(I do understand where the Nevada governor is coming from, when he said that Obama seems to have a "psychological hang-up" of using Las Vegas as an example of excessive spending).

The government has always been a bunch of hypocrits when it comes to that stuff. I love how they say that we need to start saving and being smart with our money but then put out massive credits for buying new homes and cars.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Nancy Grace is not on CNN. Larry King makes up one hour of television a night for the network.

From 5pm-Midnight, CNN runs news programs 6 of the 7 hours (with the exception of Larry King). Fox News has a news program for 2 of the 7 hours, while MSNBC runs 0 news shows in those 7 hours.

burnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Some would argue that the largest idiot tax is being run up in Washington D.C. by the same guy who believes that the citizens are the irresponsible ones.

And yet, he's a really nice guy, right?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Some would argue that the largest idiot tax is being run up in Washington D.C. by the same guy who believes that the citizens are the irresponsible ones.

What do you believe should be cut to curb the deficit? We saw the massive graph on the previous page showing where the majority of our spending was going.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by molson

He's definitely right about that - though I don't think the words are ever supported by actions. When is the federal government going to make tough choices and tighten their belt? We saw criticism two pages ago (and I'm sure elsehwere on the internet) about a city trying to make tough choices.

So which is it?

Federal financial responsibility will only come about if personal responsibility is applied by the majority of Americans. I agree that Colorado Springs is doing the right thing for themselves and in a small way, for the country.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And yet, he's a really nice guy, right?

Sure. You can be a lousy decision maker and still be a nice guy. I'm not sure the two are mutually exclusive.

He and I could have a beer summit and likely have a very good time.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Some would argue that the largest idiot tax is being run up in Washington D.C. by the same guy who believes that the citizens are the irresponsible ones.

When the average household carries $8000 in debt, I'd agree that we are pretty irresponsible. Don't blame government for that.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What do you believe should be cut to curb the deficit? We saw the massive graph on the previous page showing where the majority of our spending was going.

Show me a deficit that you believe can't be reduced and I'll show you a bigger blowtorch. Nothing is easy, but much like the 'too big to fail' saying, there's no deficit that can't be turned around. It'll be awfully painful, but it's important to do so.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

At the city/state level, it's not about choosing whether to cut, its about choosing what to cut.

Maybe they should have cut teachers instead of police. Or more firefighters instead of the budget for flowers. That's the balancing act.

What city or state out there has made up their entire budget shortfall through increased taxation?? Definitely not San Francisco, or Massachusetts. Everybody's cutting.

It sucks, but I would definitely cut the flower budget before I cut a lot of other things. If people are concerned about property values, they can definitely take maintenance into their own hands to some extent. They can't replace other services as easily.

I understand that, I'm just saying that on the surface something like flowers or watering grass could seem like a luxury expense that a city doesn't need. But if that city relies heavily on tourism in those areas or people coming in to town to shop, that could take off a large chunk from future sales tax earnings in the area and cause an even bigger shortfall the following year.

Remember that Colorado Springs is in this crunch because their sales tax earnings have tanked in the last year. And these "bastions of conservatism tried to triple the property taxes in the area".

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Show me a deficit that you believe can't be reduced and I'll show you a bigger blowtorch. Nothing is easy, but much like the 'too big to fail' saying, there's no deficit that can't be turned around. It'll be awfully painful, but it's important to do so.

Ok, so what would you like to see cut?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Ok, so what would you like to see cut?

BIGGER BLOWTORCH

Don't you get it??? Or are you just whistling in the graveyard...............

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ace1914

When the average household carries $8000 in debt, I'd agree that we are pretty irresponsible. Don't blame government for that.

No one's blaming the government for personal responsibility. But when the head of that government takes shots at people while his government is running up a debt that now totals $45,000/citizen, he and the other politicians responsible have little room to talk about financial sensibility. If our country was run better, people would be able to keep more of their money and maybe they wouldn't have to carry so much debt.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Ok, so what would you like to see cut?

For starters.....

No stimulus
No TARP (and if anything is left pay off debt)
Health care where obesity is taxed
No care to illegal aliens without payment
Government welfare
Across the board cut of Social Security with a higher retirement age
Defense cuts

I could go on and on. It's painful as hell, but people need to stop pretending that changes can't happen.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

No one's blaming the government for personal responsibility. But when the head of that government takes shots at people while his government is running up a debt that now totals $45,000/citizen, he and the other politicians responsible have little room to talk about financial sensibility. If our country was run better, people would be able to keep more of their money and maybe they wouldn't have to carry so much debt.

Most of that debt was put in place by the last 3 Republican Presidents. Stop pretending that Obama created this debt and long list of bills that we can't get out of it.

If you knock out the cost that we pay for interest on the deficit that the last 3 Republicans ran up, he's probably got a surplus.

[Crapshoot]

This is amazing ; according to a Research 2000 poll,, 73% of Republicans (self-identified) believe that openly gay teachers should not be allowed to teach. Just wow.



Can this kind of idiotic bigotry seriously be status quo? Are these people that retarded?

Why I Am Not a Republican | Capital Gains and Games

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Most of that debt was put in place by the last 3 Republican Presidents. Stop pretending that Obama created this debt and long list of bills that we can't get out of it.

If you knock out the cost that we pay for interest on the deficit that the last 3 Republicans ran up, he's probably got a surplus.

Reread my post and show me where I didn't include the other parties responsible, which included ALL politicians. Don't let your political slant get in the way of understanding my post. I've said plenty about Bush's spending already. It was brutal. I just never thought that Obama would make Bush's deficit spending seem small.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

For starters.....

No stimulus
No TARP (and if anything is left pay off debt)
Health care where obesity is taxed
No care to illegal aliens without payment
Government welfare
Across the board cut of Social Security with a higher retirement age
Defense cuts

I could go on and on. It's painful as hell, but people need to stop pretending that changes can't happen.

The stimulus is still an extremely small part of the budget. I will give you that though.

TARP was by many economists necessary to save our financial system and ensure we didn't fall into a massive depression. Regardless, most of the major financial institutions have paid back the money and many experts predict it will lose very little, break even, or turn a profit in the long run. TARP is more of a moral hazard than adding anything to our deficit.

Illegal aliens are such a small percent of our total budget that even eliminating giving them basic care would not save this country much at all. You're going to have to look much farther to save money than tired talking point.

The rest of the issues are something he really can't make happen. There is no fucking way that any Congress would ever pass bills massively cutting those programs. Your issue here is with Congress, not the President. Not to mention the insanity of telling a bunch of people that have prepared for Social Security or set their lives around their checks will now have to stop getting checks and wait another 5 years.

The biggest costs to this country are not areas the President will ever have an ability to cut without massive changes in Congress. Unless the Libertarian Party suddenly becomes the party of choice of the people, you'll never see this happen.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

This is amazing ; according to a Research 2000 poll,, 73% of Republicans (self-identified) believe that openly gay teachers should not be allowed to teach. Just wow.



Can this kind of idiotic bigotry seriously be status quo? Are these people that retarded?

Why I Am Not a Republican | Capital Gains and Games

Don't want my boy catchin' queer from them teachers... or worse yet, AIDS!

[lungs]

dola Though I don't pretend homophobia is only a Republican phenomenon.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Reread my post and show me where I didn't include the other parties responsible, which included ALL politicians. Don't let your political slant get in the way of understanding my post. I've said plenty about Bush's spending already. It was brutal. I just never thought that Obama would make Bush's deficit spending seem small.

I have no political slant. I don't care about parties. I don't like Obama's spending at all. I just don't like hypocrites.

But the notion that this is all his fault is laughable. Major recessions have huge impacts on revenues coming in. The overwhelming majority of his budget is in areas that were put in place by previous administrations that he has little control over cutting. You can't shut down Medicare, Social Security, Defense Department, or paying interest on your debt. Our deficit problem is so much deeper than a President coming in and spending more money that many economists believe is the smart thing to do during a recession.

There just isn't a lot that can be cut by a President without Congress passing massive reform in Social Security, Medicare, and Defense. Things that will never happen.

[ace1914]

The president doesn't vote on a budget. Get your congressperson's ass in gear if you are truly looking for "federal financial responsibilty." That's why i agree with the Colorado Springs local goverment. You can't really believe that things will change on a federal scale without implementing change locally or on an even smaller scale, personally. A bigger blowtorch will not work. However millions of small ones will. Damn I sound like a politician maybe I should run for office. What are the odds that another black man is elected president?

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Reread my post and show me where I didn't include the other parties responsible, which included ALL politicians. Don't let your political slant get in the way of understanding my post. I've said plenty about Bush's spending already. It was brutal. I just never thought that Obama would make Bush's deficit spending seem small.

where were your posts during the bush era? seriously just a few links will do and Ill shut up.


...and what Rainmaker said 2 posts above. Oh, and BTW, you were and are wrong about TARP.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Most of that debt was put in place by the last 3 Republican Presidents. Stop pretending that Obama created this debt and long list of bills that we can't get out of it.

If you knock out the cost that we pay for interest on the deficit that the last 3 Republicans ran up, he's probably got a surplus.

seriously. typical Republican MO - run up a massive deficit then let a Democrat get elected and heckle them while they try to fix it, shifting the blame for it onto them.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

This is amazing ; according to a Research 2000 poll,, 73% of Republicans (self-identified) believe that openly gay teachers should not be allowed to teach. Just wow.



Can this kind of idiotic bigotry seriously be status quo? Are these people that retarded?

Why I Am Not a Republican | Capital Gains and Games

yes

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I have no political slant. I don't care about parties. I don't like Obama's spending at all. I just don't like hypocrites.

But the notion that this is all his fault is laughable. Major recessions have huge impacts on revenues coming in. The overwhelming majority of his budget is in areas that were put in place by previous administrations that he has little control over cutting. You can't shut down Medicare, Social Security, Defense Department, or paying interest on your debt. Our deficit problem is so much deeper than a President coming in and spending more money that many economists believe is the smart thing to do during a recession.

There just isn't a lot that can be cut by a President without Congress passing massive reform in Social Security, Medicare, and Defense. Things that will never happen.

what he said.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

This is amazing ; according to a Research 2000 poll,, 73% of Republicans (self-identified) believe that openly gay teachers should not be allowed to teach. Just wow.

Can this kind of idiotic bigotry seriously be status quo? Are these people that retarded?

Why I Am Not a Republican | Capital Gains and Games

A think a lot people think of Sacha Baron Cohen's Bruno character when they imagine a gay person. Or child molesting priests.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You would think someone would tell Obama at some point that Nevada was a key win for him during the election. Reid sounded pretty pissed about Obama's statement. He's got to be tired of Obama tossing his home state under the bus when he's fighting to be reelected.

Obama (under his breath): "Hey, Harry, this is for your part in screwing up health care"

And, on the next campaign stop: "I don't want all of America to be redneck hicks like people in Montana, Nebraska, and Arkansas."

"And I don't even know what to think about crazy idiots from Connecticut. They're the worst drivers in the world! And they like to eat puppies and kick kittens."

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by ace1914

What are the odds that another black man is elected president?

It's happened before

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

CNN actually went to try and cover news in January which is suicide for a cable "news" network.

This is like that thread about the History Channel and, yes, I still can't get over that there's a show called "Punkin' Chunkin'" where people demonstrate their ability to blow up pumpkins on the increasingly misnamed Science channel.

SI

[RainMaker]

LOL, I thought the Punkin Chunkin was just a joke in the Onion article. I didn't know it actually existed.

Punkin Chunkin : Science Channel

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by molson

A think a lot people think of Sacha Baron Cohen's Bruno character when they imagine a gay person. Or child molesting priests.

This is true with a lot of bigotry. I had a great uncle from Texas that hated Mexicans except his favorite person was his Mexican home healthcare assistant. He made it clear she wasn't like the other Mexicans.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by molson

A think a lot people think of Sacha Baron Cohen's Bruno character when they imagine a gay person. Or child molesting priests.

Okay - is that a justification in any way? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, because that reads as a quasi-defense.

[Flasch186]

HArdball last night, Chris Matthews has a guy on who was against repealing DADT and in the end he got the guy to admit that he wanted Homosexuality outlawed. It was awesome. Chris Matthews will sometimes just hit 'em out of the park....then other times he says dumbass shit.

http://video.aol.co.uk/video-detail/...ell/1713043106

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Most of that debt was put in place by the last 3 Republican Presidents. Stop pretending that Obama created this debt and long list of bills that we can't get out of it.

If you knock out the cost that we pay for interest on the deficit that the last 3 Republicans ran up, he's probably got a surplus.

So wait, Obama is not at fault for the debt, his Congress is, but Republican presidents are responsible for the debt prior to this? Which is it, Congress or the President?

FWIW, I blame Congress in all these cases.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Okay - is that a justification in any way? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, because that reads as a quasi-defense.

I think you can make a defense for many for their lack of understanding of homosexuality. In some parts of the country, there just aren't a lot of openly gay people and most stay closeted. They get their impression of gays strictly through entertainment like Sasha Baron Cohen or the news which covers a gay pride parade.

There is an element of fear of the unknown. I guarantee that a lot of people would change their impressions once they had experience with people who are gay. Once you realize they are basically the same as everyone else with different sexual attractions.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

This is amazing ; according to a Research 2000 poll,, 73% of Republicans (self-identified) believe that openly gay teachers should not be allowed to teach. Just wow.

The best part about this is that when such an initiative came up as potential legislation (as a ballot initiative in California in 1978), among the people who opposed it was that well-known liberal Ronald Reagan.

Quoth the Great Communicator: "Whatever else it is, homosexuality is not a contagious disease like the measles. Prevailing scientific opinion is that a child's teachers do not really influence this."

I guess this really isn't your father's GOP.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But the notion that this is all his fault is laughable.

There just isn't a lot that can be cut by a President without Congress passing massive reform in Social Security, Medicare, and Defense. Things that will never happen.

Again, I never said it was all his fault. Congresses and presidents in recent years are just as much to blame.

What will happen and what should happen are two different things.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

So wait, Obama is not at fault for the debt, his Congress is, but Republican presidents are responsible for the debt prior to this? Which is it, Congress or the President?

FWIW, I blame Congress in all these cases.

It's both. A President has every right to veto a budget till it comes back to something he approves of. I'm saying that right now, the major reforms that need to take place would have to take place in Congress which will never happen. There is no Congress that will ever target Seniors who are a massive voting block. So any President in power has his hands tied on a large portion of the budget.

I do blame previous administrations and Congresses for running up the massive debt and causing our politicians today to have to try and put together budgets with all these entitlements and a ton of interest to pay on top of it. Most of our budgets right now would not be adding to the deficit if we had been fiscally responsible in the 80's and early 90's.

[JPhillips]

Look at this chart from the CBO. It shows a deficit line based on continuing the status quo and a line based on Obama's budget projections.



You can argue that Obama isn't doing enough to reduce the deficit if you'd like, but there's no basis to argue that Obama is making the deficit worse.