The 2011 NBA Offseason---Stern says no

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by korme

In the majority here, agreeing the Clips shouldn't give up Gordon, even if that means they won't land Paul. Kid is the real deal

Gordon is a very promising young player, and he played very well for Team USA too. But I think the Clips should look at the bigger picture too. They have a budding superstar at PF, the likes of which haven't been seen since a young Shawn Kemp, and they now have a chance to acquire their "Gary Payton".

I'm not denying that Gordon isn't going to blossom into a great NBA player because he certainly seems headed down that path, but the Clippers should be looking to build a championship roster IMO, and getting CP3 points them closer to that path than keeping Gordon does.

[SirFozzie]

Paul would be better then Gordon, but they have Gordon under contract already, don't have to give up other pieces for him... and Paul still has one year on his contract (two if he exercises his option)

Me, I don't trade Gordon, and certainly not without making sure that CP3 will sign a long term deal

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Gordon is a very promising young player, and he played very well for Team USA too. But I think the Clips should look at the bigger picture too. They have a budding superstar at PF, the likes of which haven't been seen since a young Shawn Kemp, and they now have a chance to acquire their "Gary Payton".

I'm not denying that Gordon isn't going to blossom into a great NBA player because he certainly seems headed down that path, but the Clippers should be looking to build a championship roster IMO, and getting CP3 points them closer to that path than keeping Gordon does.

I can understand that reasoning. That Gordon is probably going to be a very good player in the end, but Paul is now a great player. And if it was Paul for Gordon, straight up, that's probably a deal you consider.

But Gordon, Bledsoe, Aminu, Kaman and a likely high lottery pick? Sorry, that's extortion. Good move for the Clips to turn that one down.

[Logan]

I think if you're guaranteeing yourself two seasons of Paul (him picking up his option, as reported), you have to give up Gordon. LA, playing with Blake, a decent enough supporting cast around him, the ability to sign the larger contract...all things that could convince him to stay. We're not talking about just a few months to convince him.

I do think though that if they are giving up Gordon, the other pieces of the deal should be much less than what is currently offered. Gordon plus Aminu, Bledsoe, and the MIN #1 as the primary assets is too much.

[Logan]

Looks like we all agree haha.

I agree with something Simmons wrote today...that MIN #1 could be very overrated. Sure it's very likely to be top 5 but if it ends up at 7th or so, you're crazy for trying to hold it back.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

But New Orleans is NOT going to have a high pick if they keep CP3 for the year.

I was playing through NBA 2K12 the other day, scrolling down NO's roster and man, not only do they suck, but they have the ugliest collection of white guy pivots ever in the base rosters.

Right now, outside of CP3, it's Trevor Ariza, Emeka Okafor, Patrick Ewing Jnr, Jarrett Jack, and Quincy Poindexter. It's like they just went through an expansion draft.

They are stuck with Okafor's crazy stupid contract and Ariza's pretty bad contract through 2013/14 (assuming Ariza isn't an idiot and leaves his last year on the table), but outside of that they are pretty much an empty cupboard.

[whomario]

Was gone for the weekend and while i knew this shortened FA period would be crazy : What the hell ?

I´ve decided to just casually follow this whole thing and then just look up the rosters before the games on christmas.

And yeah, the Hornets have done nothing so far in FA and if this goes like i think it will you´ll see a handfull of min-salary guys added a day or two before the season starts and then there´s that thing where Paul likely will half-ass it and figure this whole thing isn´t worth risking injury (especially since he played most of last season with a bum knee. Again, why does no one mention this ?? )
The Hornets will be baaaaad.


Also : Thank you and good bye Brandon Roy, that´s just sad news as he was one of my favourite players. Hope he can come back in some form in a couple of years, maybe there will be new know-how available to treat his knees.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Logan

Looks like we all agree haha.

I agree with something Simmons wrote today...that MIN #1 could be very overrated. Sure it's very likely to be top 5 but if it ends up at 7th or so, you're crazy for trying to hold it back.

It's a really deep draft though. Even at 7-10 you could be grabbing a Terrence Jones or Bradley Beal. There is a chance that Minnesota won't be as bad as people think. Rubio could be good and they do have some depth that might benefit them in a long season. Still think they are lottery bound, but wouldn't be surprised to see them at 10th or something.

But I agree that the pick is more valuable in theory. The odds of grabbing an All-Star, even in the top 5 aren't a guarantee. I'd much rather take my shot with a proven star like Paul for 2 years (and hope him and Griffin have enough fun they stick around) then grab another young talent in the draft and hope he pans out. The Clippers have the pieces to move forward, but I think those pieces should be used to grab a star now.

[Alf]

Fascinating NBA offseason so far

[korme]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Gordon is a very promising young player, and he played very well for Team USA too. But I think the Clips should look at the bigger picture too. They have a budding superstar at PF, the likes of which haven't been seen since a young Shawn Kemp, and they now have a chance to acquire their "Gary Payton".

I'm not denying that Gordon isn't going to blossom into a great NBA player because he certainly seems headed down that path, but the Clippers should be looking to build a championship roster IMO, and getting CP3 points them closer to that path than keeping Gordon does.

The reason I don't think they would want to move Gordon is because of CP's injury history. He's barely got cartilage in one of his knees. Now I'm not saying it's Brandon Roy level, but it's certainly a concern and last season he was lacking the explosiveness he had in the past. Not saying he still won't be great, I'm just reiterating that it's a legitimate concern moving forward.

[stevew]

Nene back to the Nuggets.

[bronconick]

Rodney Stuckey turns down a 5 year contract from Detroit.

Jesus in heaven, someone fire Dumars. Thank him for his role in all 3 titles, give him a watch, kick him out and change the locks.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by stevew

Nene back to the Nuggets.

Odd. I thought he felt disrespected there.

[RedKingGold]

CP3 to Clippers about to get done.

[Crapshoot]

The Clippers are giving up Gordon + the Minnesota #1 next year + (Amin + Kaman for 1 year rental)_? That's crazy - one of the two I can understand, but both?

[RainMaker]

CP3 for Gordon, Kaman, Aminu, and Minny's #1. That's one nice haul for them. Best young SG in the league and a top 10 pick in next year's draft. Along with a SF project with some upside.

[RedKingGold]

Marc Stein (ESPN) reports its Gordon, Kaman, Aminu and Minnesota pick to Hornets for CP3

[RedKingGold]

Hate to say it, but Stern got what he wanted. That haul is way better than the shit sandwich the Lakers were offering.

[RainMaker]

Stern is a better GM than most of the current ones in the NBA.

[bhlloy]

Don't like this trade at all. Gordon is on the verge of stardom and with the pick, it's a huge overpay IMO. Plus with the clipper curse CP3's knees are done for.

Such a Clipper move. Trade everything for a star with bad knees and who may be starting an early decline. I don't see any way this doesn't end in tears

[RainMaker]

It's a lot, but that team can compete for the West. Maybe not this year, but definitely next year. I think it's worth the shot. Look what CP3 was able to do last year without a lot of talent.

[stevew]

In a shortened season, a team with youth like Minnesota might make a run at the 8th seed. Agree that the pick might not be a big deal.

[Chief Rum]

I can't dislike acquiring Chris Paul. Who can, someone as good as he is.

But I really think the Clips will regret trading away Gordon. I think they gave away way too much, and like bhlloy said, one Paul knee injury and the team is going to struggle.

Who is the SG on this team? Billups, Paul and Mo Williams (and Bledsoe) are not SGs, and do you want Foye to be the SG? He's not really a SG either. There's a lot of quality, but they all play combo guard and below. The team is actually pretty thin at the swing spots now (Butler and Gomes only true options there now). And who backs up DJ at C? Complain if you will about Kaman's other qualities, but he was an offensive mismatch for most centers and was a reliable scorer. Jordan has very little offensive game beyond dunks at this point and there is no one on the roster who can back him up right now.

The Clips better not be done. They need to add two more swingmen, one of whom had better be a starting quality SG, and they need two big men, a vet C and a PF to get their depth back behind Blake and DJ.

[RedKingGold]

In defense of the Clippers, how sure are we that SG Gordon was going to re-sign long-term with them? He's going to be an RFA next year, and unrestricted in 2013.

Perhaps the Clips have/had a better chance to re-sign Paul long-term than Gordon.

[Groundhog]

Well done to both teams IMO, and how often can you say that.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

In defense of the Clippers, how sure are we that SG Gordon was going to re-sign long-term with them? He's going to be an RFA next year, and unrestricted in 2013.

Perhaps the Clips have/had a better chance to re-sign Paul long-term than Gordon.

Perhaps. But word around the team seemed to be that Gordon wanted to stay and Olshey came out the other day and said they would be working with Gordon on an extension in the near future (i.e. the weeks ahead).

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Stern is a better GM than most of the current ones in the NBA.

Texted my buddy the same thing.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Who is the SG on this team? Billups, Paul and Mo Williams (and Bledsoe) are not SGs, and do you want Foye to be the SG? He's not really a SG either. There's a lot of quality, but they all play combo guard and below. The team is actually pretty thin at the swing spots now (Butler and Gomes only true options there now). And who backs up DJ at C? Complain if you will about Kaman's other qualities, but he was an offensive mismatch for most centers and was a reliable scorer. Jordan has very little offensive game beyond dunks at this point and there is no one on the roster who can back him up right now.

The Clips better not be done. They need to add two more swingmen, one of whom had better be a starting quality SG, and they need two big men, a vet C and a PF to get their depth back behind Blake and DJ.

Yah, I think they have a pretty amazing core (though it's a shame they can't trade Billups), but they can't be done yet.

IMO what they need now is a perimeter defender at SG (how perfect would Deshawn Stevenson be?) and size on the bench. They have Foye and Mo Williams as trade bait to try and get one of those things, and I assume they have their MLE to get the other?

I'll be watching some Clips games this season, that's for sure.

[Groundhog]

Not sure if there's any Warriors fans on these boards, but the best player from my local Aussie team is currently on trial with the Warriors, 6'10 Julian Khazzouh. I have mixed feelings because on the one hand it would be great for another Aussie to make it to the NBA, but on the other hand, the Sydney Kings probably wont win another game without him...

He is the best bigman in our guard-orientated national competition, but I'm interested to see how he goes up against NBA-level agile forwards, as most of the guys defending him down here are either shorter than him or far less mobile - guys like Luke Schrenscher who some of you may recall from his brief NBA or Georgia Tech days.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

In defense of the Clippers, how sure are we that SG Gordon was going to re-sign long-term with them? He's going to be an RFA next year, and unrestricted in 2013.

Perhaps the Clips have/had a better chance to re-sign Paul long-term than Gordon.

Yeah, I agree there. Someone was going to throw big money at Gordon and I don't know if the Clippers could match. Even if they did, they'd be stuck with a roster that won just over 30 games last year. I think they essentially swap out Gordon for Paul and the team is much better.

I know the knee is an issue, but Paul is really good. He was able to put a nice fight up in the playoffs with a team that had Aaron Gray playing minutes at Center. I think he's worth the risk. Clippers fans are going to be surprised how much better he makes everyone on that team. Deandre Jordan is going to put up some big numbers thanks to him, as well as Blake.

It's a fair trade for both sides. Especially when you consider the Clippers have not been a good FA destination and this is likely the best way to acquire a top 10 talent.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Stern is a better GM than most of the current ones in the NBA.

Yeah I want to see all the hand ringing after this one when all the talking heads were saying "You just can't do any better" than the Lakers shit offer and the Clippers initial medicore offer. Its like there is an unwritten rule that the trade has to happen within five minutes of the media covering it.

[RainMaker]

Media just wanted him on the Lakers.

[korme]

You know... expecting Minnesota to struggle again this year (though with Rubio/Williams, they could be ok), New Orleans to be in the tank... they could walk away with 2 top 5 picks here + Eric Gordon. Potentially a real nice core next season

[bulletsponge]

HA! fuck the Lakers!

[korme]

As to re: SG, I'm assuming Bledsoe or Mo Williams gets moved for one

[Coffee Warlord]

Rip Hamilton officially signs with Bulls. 2/10, option for a third year.

[stevew]

Hmmm. Bonzi Wells is trying to make a comeback. Career earnings of 39 million dollars. Once famously turned down a 5yr/38M deal with the Kings and ended up making 4 million and only spending 2 more years in the NBA. Hope he makes the team, we need guys like Gawen in the league.

[cartman]

Phil Jackson retires
Lamar Odom traded to Dallas
League nixes the CP3 trade

Now...
Vanessa divorces Kobe

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Stern is a better GM than most of the current ones in the NBA.

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Texted my buddy the same thing.

He should be as he has much more leverage than any GM in the league. While they actually have finances and owners to worry about Stern can pretty much sit on an offer as long as he wants. NBA is in no danger of going bankrupt and Sterns job is safe. Kind of hard to screw up too bad when the owners wont accept an offer that is average or below.

Stern took it upon himself to manipulate the Paul situation. As unfair as it was with the Hornets being in the position they had to get rid of Paul it was equally as unfair having the entire NBA controlling the trade of Paul to any team. The NBA took too much control of that situation. It really wasnt fair at all to the Lakers as it was the rest of the league vs the Lakers. This may have been the first and only time the Lakers were outresourced on a deal.


Lets not make him out to be some hero because the other owners cried about the first deal so he had to make more demands. If you ever played a sim in "god mod" this is basically what happened here. Im glad the Lakers didnt get Paul but Im very unhappy at the shit Stern and his cronies are pulling. Its not fair to the players or the individual teams.

The NBA has too much power to be actively running any team in the league.

With this said if the NBA wants to negotiate in the next CBA that they get to use their power to help out the dysfunctional franchises(mainly the Twolves) Id be all for them using their power to gain an edge.

[whomario]

smiley faces all around

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

If you ever played a sim in "god mod" this is basically what happened here. Im glad the Lakers didnt get Paul but Im very unhappy at the shit Stern and his cronies are pulling. Its not fair to the players or the individual teams.

Finally, a name for the way I've been playing text sims for years. I'm just playing David Stern mode.

[whomario]

What is everyones take on the Mavs offseason ? Could this really work again, getting hungry veterans and/or outcasts ?
Obviously loosing Chandler is huge and will simply change their style defensively for the worse, but i get why they didn´t try to retain him having in mind the cap situation next year and beyond.

They are definitely a pretty deep team and if they can somehow be healthy come playoff time ... Hope Carlisle rests some players a bit, rather take a 6th seed and be healthy than try desperately for a great record i figure, especially with the veteran squad and last year´s run in mind.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by whomario

smiley faces all around

An absolutely brilliant advertisment for future free agents.

[Ironhead]

Originally Posted by whomario

smiley faces all around

Kaman looks like a cross between an axe murder and a meth addict.

[SackAttack]

Never thought the day would come when I'd see players look downright unenthused to have been traded from the Clippers to, oh...anybody else.

[Icy]

Not bad debut by Rubio, better than what i expected for his first game fighting against the hype.

24 minutes played as backup, 6 points, 7 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, 1 turnover.

Showing exactly how his game is, nice passing and low scoring, with good rebounding and defense added to the mix. Pretty impressive to get 7 assists with just 1 turnover. Most of his assists would be in the best plays of the day, no look'ers, alley oops, etc.

This was a good sample:
Rookie Connection | NBA.com

[stevew]

You gotta be pretty excited about the Spanish Olympic team next year. Gasols/Ibaka/Fernandez/Rubio plus some other obvious guys I'm forgetting. The US better bring some size cause the Spanish bigs would shit all over Melo or Bron or Durant if we think we can get by with only Howard or Chandler and one of those guys at the 4.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by stevew

You gotta be pretty excited about the Spanish Olympic team next year. Gasols/Ibaka/Fernandez/Rubio plus some other obvious guys I'm forgetting. The US better bring some size cause the Spanish bigs would shit all over Melo or Bron or Durant if we think we can get by with only Howard or Chandler and one of those guys at the 4.

Yup, you forgot also Navarro that is one of the top scorers in Europe right now after his short stint in the NBA.

I find the Ibaka thing a bit like cheating, even when i love to have him in the team, but i'm against that kind of nationalization in sports, as they get special treatment compared with other "immigrants", it's all about money.

[stevew]

We played Hakeem way back in the day, so the US can't really complain. Yea, Navarro...couldn't remember his name.

[stevew]

Scary stuff for Jeff Green. Heart surgery voids his contract, although it may save his life. Certainly a big blow to the Celtics chances.