2005-06 Soccer Thread - Page 16

daedalus · 05-18-2006, 03:34 PM

To my understanding, he could have waited a breath to see how the play ended to let the offense play their advantage (open goal and all) and still come back and book Lehmann with either cards. It would have been the correct call one way or the other. Red carding Lehmann was one of the few calls he got right.

Besides Eboue's dive, Cole also had a free kick around midfield where Van Bommel didn't actually touch him. Toure, I think, deserved a yellow for one of his challenges around midway through the first. Henry's yellow was completely asstarded. It was COMPLETELY clean, he didn't touch the guy at all. In fact, he ended up being kicked on the follow through.

On the other hand, Marquez should have gotten a yellow when he scythed down Henry. So did Oleguer when he pulled down Ljungberg when he would have been through. And a number of other times when he just pushed people down.

It didn't really feel like he was favouring Barça as much as he just wasn't ready for a game of this scope. How I miss the bald headed dude.

daedalus · 05-18-2006, 03:47 PM

The part that saddened me, as a football fan, was we missed the chance at a great game. We saw glimpses of it toward the beginning of the match. Instead, Arsenal bunkered down as they did in the 2nd Villarreal game. As an aside, I sort of felt the loss coming as soon as we bunkered down. We're just no good at it nor do we have the personnel for it. Villarreal would have been through, given how we played the 2nd game, if their finishing had not failed them.

The part that saddened me, as an Arsenal fan, was that Barça was beatable this game. Ronaldinho was NOT the Ronaldinho that (deservedly) won 2 Player of the Year. Puyol was not the rock he usually is (in the few times I've seen him I've never seen him skinned like Henry did him and he had a slip and slide to let Cesc go by him). I thought Rijkaard missed it and we had a good chance to take them when he started Oleguer instead of Belleti and Van Bommel instead of Iniesta. I think he out-maneuvered Wenger, though, with his use of substitutions (Wenger has always been horrible with that). Iniesta was dangerous when he came on. Larsson, well, changed the match when he came on. Belleti gave them the threat on the right side that they lacked. I agreed with Henry (for a change) - who Smythe kept saying that he had an ongoing "dialogue" with his manager - that Wenger should have replaced Hleb with Reyes from around the hour mark on. Hleb's tank seemed to have been on 'E' well before he came out.

ISiddiqui · 05-18-2006, 10:09 PM

I'm bored, so let's talk about the World Cup. We've talked at length about England's squad (with Walcott, et all), so if anyone cares (and I doubt anyone does

), I'll talk about the US.

Interesting lineup and kind of like the English there are too many good MF and not enough forwards, though not as a result of injury and questionable picks (though leaving on Twellman may be seen by some as questionable).

The key is Donovan. He has played forward with McBride and attacking center MF (his best position, IMO). The problem with him at AMC is who will play the second forward spot? Eddie Johnson is still recovering from injury and hasn't had the same explosiveness since he got hurt, but maybe Arena will get the best out of him as he has in the past. Wolff has done nothing special in qualifying and neither has Ching, though he is tearing it up in MLS, which doesn't necessarily mean anything.

So, if only McBride is ok, a 4-5-1 may make sense, but Arena does perfer a 4-4-2. So I thought about Donovan's role and realized that perhaps a kind of 'tweener' formation could be used, depending on where Donovan is at on the field (he'd be given a free role, of course).

So, I was thinking (Keller is in goal, obviously):

---------McBride
--------------------Donovan
---Beasley---------------------Dempsey
-----------Mastroeni---Reyna
--Lewis---Onyewu---Gibbs---Cherundolo

Convey can replace Beasley at a moment's notice. Bocanegra can spell Gibbs or even Lewis if need be. And if O'Brien is healthy (HA!), he can take over Dempsey's spot.

The alternative is:

--------McBride-----Johnson/Wolff
---------------Donovan
----Beasley----------------Dempsey
----------------Reyna
--Lewis--Onyewu--Gibbs--Cherundolo

If more defense is needed, Reyna takes over for Dempsey on the right wing and Masteroeni plays defensive mid.

The offense will go through Donovan in both formations and Beasley will have to be responsible for providing a spark as well (if he can't, Convey has proven himself able). The defense is led by Onweyu, who is the best center back the US has ever produced (may be damning with faint praise, but Eddie Pope was pretty decent). Masteroni may be needed during the Italy game, and may require Reyna to play on the right (in a strict 4-4-2 diamond), but Dempsey should show in the other matches.

SirFozzie · 05-18-2006, 10:32 PM

I will probably set up a new thread when the WC starts

ISiddiqui · 05-18-2006, 10:35 PM

NO! This thread must at least go to 1000 posts, dammit! Though I'd prefer the goal to take down the NHL thread (which will get 1000 before the Cup is handed out)!

TazFTW · 05-18-2006, 10:44 PM

Any interest in having an FOFC Yahoo Fantasy World Cup private group?

The game is here, http://en.fifaworldcup.fantasysports.yahoo.com/ff

You select 23 players (max. 3 per country) and then you name a starting 11 using either a 442, 352, 343, or 433 each match day.

Scoring is

Quote:

Attacking Stats

Goal(G)	5 points
Penalty Goal(PKG)	5 points
Assist(AST)	3 points
Shot on Goal(SOG)	3 points
Penalty Kick Missed(PKM)	-5 points

Defending Stats

Tackles Committed(TKC)	1 point
Foul Committed(FC)	-0.5 points
Yellow Card(YC)	-3 points
Red Card(RC)	-6 points

Goal Keeper Specific

Save(SAV)	2 points
Penalty Kick Save(PKS)	8 points
Goal Allowed(GA)	-3 points

Special

McDonald's Team Captain

2x points per matchday

I believe they will also let you select a new 23 man roster after the group stage.

Desnudo · 05-19-2006, 12:13 AM

Finally got around to watching the match. I was cheering for Arsenal at the start as my heart is for the English teams, but after Eboue's dive and subsequent goal, I lost my taste for the game. Too bad, it could have been good if Lehmann hadn't grabbed Eto's foot.

Everyone in England got to miss the wonderful defense of Eboue's dive by Marcelo Balboa on ESPN. Later on he gets on Deco for diving. Great role model for the kids.

ISiddiqui · 05-19-2006, 12:21 AM

Well, in defense of Balboa, he said if you are Eboue, you have to fall in that situation (and I think a lot of fans would applaud it for their team). For Deco, he was blaming the refs for not calling dives.

Different situations there. Saying if you are a player, you have to try, but the refs have to be on the lookout.

MIJB#19 · 05-19-2006, 04:04 AM

Let's get the FIFA World Cup conspiracy theories started. Alf pointed out to me yesterday that the official website of the tournament showed Germany-England as a lock for one of the second round matches. Sadly they fixed it now (not until after I saw it), but it sure was hilarious to see the people of the website think Germany will win the group and England will finish second in theirs.

condors · 05-19-2006, 04:53 AM

i think Eddie Pope will be starting if healthy while he may not be the best option but i think the Bruce trusts him. I am not very confindent of the US making it past the first stage though.

daedalus · 05-19-2006, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

So, I was thinking (Keller is in goal, obviously):

---------McBride
--------------------Donovan
---Beasley---------------------Dempsey
-----------Mastroeni---Reyna
--Lewis---Onyewu---Gibbs---Cherundolo

I was flipping past Fox Sports Espanol and they had a reporter asking him about his lineup. The one he drew on his paper was similar to what you have, down to Donovan being the withdrawn striker -- he wrote on his note as "F/M", actually. He had Pope over Gibbs, though. He said he was unsure of the second midfield position opposite Reyna and one of the wing, but he mentioned Mastroeni and O'Brien as candidates for the midfield slot and Dempsey as the possible (likely?) winger.

For some reason, I was under the impression that Lewis was hurt but perhaps I am thinking of someone else. Who else may have been a left-back for the US that is currently on the shelf?

I think it's unfortunately (for the USNT and, in a way, for himself) that Rossi is so set on playing for Italy. He would have made an interesting candidate for a partner for McBride (with Donovan in the hole behind them). I have a tough time seeing him getting in there while playing for United. It's a crowded field anyway and he's playing outside Italy, which seems to be a big boo-boo for them.

Segway . . . what do y'all think of the US' chance of surprising Italy and making it out of group stage? Even before the big controversy, I had sort of an outside hope that they could/would sneak some points against Italy and Czech and Italy would get surprised (a la France). Especially with Totti out and Cassano really not seeming to be in form.

MIJB#19 · 05-19-2006, 06:42 AM

Just my European biased opinion (sic), but I think Italy and the Czech Republic are both strong enough in depth to be seen as two of the top three European teams, and thus potential semifinalists. The more I look at it, I think the USA have been screwed by the FIFA for not getting a higher seeded spot for the group phase. I'm not claiming this based on that wacky FIFA Ranking, but based on the 2002 performance. With Turkey and Senegal not there, it was pretty easy to seed the six remaining quarterfinalists (Bra, Ger, Kor, USA, Esp, Eng), and then add France and Croatia. Mexico, Argentina and Italy did not do enough in 1998 and 2002 to deserve a top seeded position. Granted, you have to be able to survive the group phase to be a deserved finalist, but when you can get the USA, Italy and the Czechs in one group, you're doing something wrong.

I stick with the thought that having the MLS start in the spring wil help against the other teams, especially Italy. Secretly I've already written it down as a 1-0 win for the USA. But then I see the names of Gibbs and O'Brien mentioned in the potential lineup; all I can do is shake my head and fear for a short stay in Germany for Team USA.

MIJB#19 · 05-19-2006, 07:06 AM

For those looking for a spreadsheet to toy with your predictions, I've created one and placed on my website http://football.netherlands.com/index_en.html. I also have a polite request to those who think I'm a Eurosnob, please keep your mouse cursor off my main work and download the Eurosnob version. That one is special made for you.

Butter · 05-19-2006, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daedalus

He had Pope over Gibbs, though

Quote:

Segway . . . what do y'all think of the US' chance of surprising Italy and making it out of group stage? Even before the big controversy, I had sort of an outside hope that they could/would sneak some points against Italy and Czech and Italy would get surprised (a la France). Especially with Totti out and Cassano really not seeming to be in form.

The US will advance from this group. As a US fan, I really can't think any other way. They'll find a way to beat Italy, and that should be enough to see them through.

ice4277 · 05-19-2006, 07:17 AM

I think the U.S. can advance out of the group, but I wouldn't want to put money on it. Italy always looks beatable at times during a major final, and the Czechs can be a streaky squad as well. If the U.S. catches either team at an 'off' moment, we definitely have enough to take one of the qualifying spots.

And look forward to Brazil in the second round! Yay!

Butter · 05-19-2006, 07:24 AM

I really think the USA can win the group, and avoid Brazil in the 2nd round.

moriarty · 05-19-2006, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ice4277

I think the U.S. can advance out of the group, but I wouldn't want to put money on it. Italy always looks beatable at times during a major final, and the Czechs can be a streaky squad as well. If the U.S. catches either team at an 'off' moment, we definitely have enough to take one of the qualifying spots.

And look forward to Brazil in the second round! Yay!

I think the Czechs are the beatable team between them and Italy, but I'm not feeling real confident at the moment. Throw in there that Ghana (despite playing poorly in the African Nations Cup) still has Essien who is better than any US player ... and I'm wondering if we're not looking at two draws and one loss. I'm hoping for the best though.

Oh, and Donovan has to play up front unless EJ makes a miraculous comeback.

Critch · 05-19-2006, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Everyone in England got to miss the wonderful defense of Eboue's dive by Marcelo Balboa on ESPN. Later on he gets on Deco for diving. Great role model for the kids.

So that's who that was. He made Tommy Smyth seem worth listening too. That's a tough thing to do.

AlexB · 05-19-2006, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I really think the USA can win the group, and avoid Brazil in the 2nd round.

I too think the US can avoid Brazil in the 2nd round, maybe for a different reason

Seriously, the group is tough - everybody can take points off everybody else: to a certain extent it's better to have three other good sides in your group than just two other good ones, as the chances are the points total required to advance will be less.

That said, I do think winning the group is maybe an unrealistic expectation, but qualification in 2nd is far from out the question.

ISiddiqui · 05-19-2006, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daedalus

For some reason, I was under the impression that Lewis was hurt but perhaps I am thinking of someone else. Who else may have been a left-back for the US that is currently on the shelf?

You thinking of Hejduk? He tore some ligaments recently, IIRC.

Quote:

Segway . . . what do y'all think of the US' chance of surprising Italy and making it out of group stage? Even before the big controversy, I had sort of an outside hope that they could/would sneak some points against Italy and Czech and Italy would get surprised (a la France). Especially with Totti out and Cassano really not seeming to be in form.

It is going to be tough. There definately is a chance, but it won't be easy and may require some luck. Italy is the interesting case as we have to see how Onyewu handles Toni (though, of course, the best way to stop Toni is to prevent the ball from getting to him in the first place). I really think this groups can go in a myriad of different ways.

Butter · 05-19-2006, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

That said, I do think winning the group is maybe an unrealistic expectation...

But then, that's my specialty. I am fired up for this WC like no other. I just think that one of these times the US is going to break through and make it a LONG way. Why not this year?

condors · 05-19-2006, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

But then, that's my specialty. I am fired up for this WC like no other. I just think that one of these times the US is going to break through and make it a LONG way. Why not this year?

like in 2002

Crapshoot · 05-19-2006, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I really think the USA can win the group, and avoid Brazil in the 2nd round.

That kool-aid tastes good eh ? The US is at best the 3rd best team in the group, and may well be the worst - they don't have anyone of the quality of Essien, Appiah, and Kuffor - though they clearly have more depth than the Ghanian's. It really is a brutal group.

TroyF · 05-19-2006, 09:21 AM

Henry announced he's staying at Arsenal. They needed that one.

Butter · 05-19-2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

The US is at best the 3rd best team in the group...

At best? Who's drinking the Kool-Aid now?

ISiddiqui · 05-19-2006, 09:28 AM

I appreciate the nationalism, Butter, but Crapshoot is correct. The US, talent wise, is at best the 3rd best team in the group. Now maybe the US will come up with a great gameplan, but you can't make a case that Italy or the Czech Republic has less talent than the US squad.

Crapshoot · 05-19-2006, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

At best? Who's drinking the Kool-Aid now?

Yes, at best - the Ghanian's have more top level talent, but not the same depth. Are you seriously suggesting the US has the talent of Italy or the Czechs ?

daedalus · 05-19-2006, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Quote:

Originally Posted by daedalus

He had Pope over Gibbs, though

Excuse me?

MIJB#19 · 05-19-2006, 10:09 AM

You got to see that all over the world, optimism is at an all time high. You need to tone done all expectations and then after that figure out who the two-four surprises of the tournament will be.

Wannabe champs: Brazil, Italy, Argentina, Spain
Wannabe semifinalists: France, Germany, Netherlands, England
Wannabe quarterfinalists: Czech Rep, Korea, USA, Mexico, Portugal, Croatia, Serbia Montenegro
Wannabe second rounders: Tunisia, Poland, Paraguay, Sweden, Ecuador, Costa Rica, Australia, Japan, Ivory Coast, Ghana, Switzerland, Ukraine, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Angola, Togo
Yah, man, it be already kool to be partin' at Germany, man: Trinidad & Tobago

So, the likely performances will be:
World Champ: Brazil
Runners-Up: Argentina
semifinalists: Italy, Spain
quarterfinalists: France, Germany, Netherlands, England
Second rounders: Czech Rep/USA, Korea, Mexico, Portugal, Croatia, Costa Rica, Ukraine/Tunisia, Trinidad & Tobago (surprise!)
Coach to be fired soon: Tunisia/Ukraine, Poland, Paraguay, Sweden, Ecuador, Australia, Japan, Ivory Coast, Ghana, Switzerland, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Angola, Togo, Serbia Montenegro, USA/Czech Rep

ISiddiqui · 05-19-2006, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daedalus

Excuse me?

Pope is fairly old and more like 'veteran leadership' compared to players like Gibbs and Bocanegra. I think Butter was rolling his eyes at Pope starting. Though you never know what Arena will do.

Butter · 05-19-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Pope is fairly old and more like 'veteran leadership' compared to players like Gibbs and Bocanegra. I think Butter was rolling his eyes at Pope starting.

That was it. I think Pope's about done. The longer he's out there, the better a chance that he'll be beaten like a rented mule.

daedalus · 05-19-2006, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Everyone in England got to miss the wonderful defense of Eboue's dive by Marcelo Balboa on ESPN. Later on he gets on Deco for diving. Great role model for the kids.

So that's who that was. He made Tommy Smyth seem worth listening too. That's a tough thing to do.

I had serious "WTF?!?" moments when he said Eboue did what he had to do and Deco should have been carded. One poster on the BigSoccer Arsenal board had an interesting take on his comments. He felt that Balboa was referring to the fact that Eboue, as a defender (ie, not as proficient in attack as a general attacker), tried to do what he felt he had to do for his team (in this case, to get a free kick) -- not justifying the right or wrong of the action -- whereas he was referring to the referee failure to call the play correctly on Deco's dive. I am still . . . iffy on that. But I can sort of feel where he (the poster) is coming from.

MikeVick7 · 05-19-2006, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daedalus

I had serious "WTF?!?" moments when he said Eboue did what he had to do and Deco should have been carded. One poster on the BigSoccer Arsenal board had an interesting take on his comments. He felt that Balboa was referring to the fact that Eboue, as a defender (ie, not as proficient in attack as a general attacker), tried to do what he felt he had to do for his team (in this case, to get a free kick) -- not justifying the right or wrong of the action -- whereas he was referring to the referee failure to call the play correctly on Deco's dive. I am still . . . iffy on that. But I can sort of feel where he (the poster) is coming from.

I took that the same way when I heard it.

daedalus · 05-19-2006, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You thinking of Hejduk? He tore some ligaments recently, IIRC.

That's the one. Good call. Does this put Bocanegra as the backup to Lewis?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

It is going to be tough. There definately is a chance, but it won't be easy and may require some luck. Italy is the interesting case as we have to see how Onyewu handles Toni (though, of course, the best way to stop Toni is to prevent the ball from getting to him in the first place). I really think this groups can go in a myriad of different ways.

No doubt. I would not expect easy as the 3rd seed in such a group and agree that luck is going to be a necessity. But, I mean, stranger things have happened than a solid team -- I think it's fair to consider the US to be solid -- have a good bounce or two and get a favourable result.

ISiddiqui · 05-19-2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daedalus

That's the one. Good call. Does this put Bocanegra as the backup to Lewis?

I assume that it does. Though Bocanegra is far better at a central defender. Albright was Hejduk's replacement and the less time we see of Albright the better, IMO.

Quote:

No doubt. I would not expect easy as the 3rd seed in such a group and agree that luck is going to be a necessity. But, I mean, stranger things have happened than a solid team -- I think it's fair to consider the US to be solid -- have a good bounce or two and get a favourable result.

We have gotten lucky before (most notably in the Columbia match in USA '94). We're going to need to get that again, most definately. I'm not sure 4 points will get us through.. it may, but I'm not going to bet on it.

ice4277 · 05-19-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

We have gotten lucky before (most notably in the Columbia match in USA '94). We're going to need to get that again, most definately. I'm not sure 4 points will get us through.. it may, but I'm not going to bet on it.

I think there is going to be little difference in the point totals between the group participants. Our best hope would seem to be to beat Ghana (not a given by any means) and sneak a win vs. either Italy or the Czechs. More likely though, I see us finishing with about 4 points, like you do. A draw between the Italians and the Czechs seems pretty important for our chances to progess IMO.

moriarty · 05-19-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ice4277

. More likely though, I see us finishing with about 4 points, like you do. A draw between the Italians and the Czechs seems pretty important for our chances to progess IMO.

If we have 4 points, and Italy and Czech draw (and both beat Ghana).

That means one team has 6 points (beat us), the other 5 points (tied us) and the US 4 points (right?). Not sure how the Italy/Czech tie does us any good.

ice4277 · 05-19-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriarty

If we have 4 points, and Italy and Czech draw (and both beat Ghana).

That means one team has 6 points (beat us), the other 5 points (tied us) and the US 4 points (right?). Not sure how the Italy/Czech tie does us any good.

Meh, you're probably right. Yet another reason why I was not a math major in college

ice4277 · 05-19-2006, 02:38 PM

dola

Its useful to remember also that in '94, the US actually finished 3rd in its group, but went through as one of the two(?) best third-placed squads. Its only the top two getting through now.

Desnudo · 05-19-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well, in defense of Balboa, he said if you are Eboue, you have to fall in that situation (and I think a lot of fans would applaud it for their team). For Deco, he was blaming the refs for not calling dives.

Different situations there. Saying if you are a player, you have to try, but the refs have to be on the lookout.

I remember as being more of a "good job, you're down ten men,' speech. I realize the point he was trying to make, but I don't buy it and I find it weak he'd try and make it in the first place. I don't think real fans of soccer would ever applaud that kind of behaviour. It's never acceptable if you believe in sportsmanship at all. I don't think you'd see Henry going down like a lump just because hist team was down a man.

Desnudo · 05-19-2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critch

So that's who that was. He made Tommy Smyth seem worth listening too. That's a tough thing to do.

You're in luck, he's the lead analyst for the WC.

Critch · 05-19-2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

You're in luck, he's the lead analyst for the WC.

Setanta has the tournament with German commentary. I'll stick to that.

Can't speak German, but it'll make more sense than Tommy Smyth's witterings.

AlexB · 05-19-2006, 04:09 PM

Love the fact that Drogba wants to leave Chelsea and England: since he was called on his perpetual cheating, he has been unhappy - aaahhhh, poor diddums.

From SkyText:

'Drogba claims he is unhappy at being labelled a cheat and has hinted he wants a move...

Drogba said "It is not a joke. I want to move on and avoid all the pressures and the scandals.

Those things hurt my feelings. I want a place I can play freely and without drawbacks. You should know what a player endures with so much pressure" '

So basically he wants to be able to fall over, roll around, feign injury and not be called on it. The guy is an arrogant twat, and unfortuantely for him more and more people are realising this.

Mourinho made me laugh in his press conference:

'Didier has two more years on his contract and he is one of the players I consider not neogtiable - he has no possibility to leave.

If he plays with happiness, that is good for Chelsea. If he does not play with happiness... he does not play'

Critch · 05-19-2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

So basically he wants to be able to fall over, roll around, feign injury and not be called on it.

Italy or Spain, then?

AlexB · 05-19-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critch

Italy or Spain, then?

Desnudo · 05-19-2006, 04:22 PM

Maybe they can send him to Corinthians for Tevez.

tanglewood · 05-19-2006, 04:26 PM

Gallas and Drogba now unhappy and wanting to leave. Is the Chelsea team starting to break-up simply due to having too many good players who feel they should start, just as many predicted?

Katon · 05-19-2006, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Love the fact that Drogba wants to leave Chelsea and England: since he was called on his perpetual cheating, he has been unhappy - aaahhhh, poor diddums.

So basically he wants to be able to fall over, roll around, feign injury and not be called on it. The guy is an arrogant twat, and unfortuantely for him more and more people are realising this.

To be fair, he does get a disproportionate amount of stick for it - I could point to a number of other players who've pulled stunts every bit as embarassing as his worst dives and are generally regarded as epitomising the proper spirit of football. He's also been having a worse time because of a linguistic fuckup that had more to do with English being his second language than anything about his general honesty.

The obvious response to that is that he still dives more than most people, and if he doesn't want to get called on it he should just stop cheating. But by all accounts he actually did that over the last month or so of the season. Apparantly (this is going off reports on a Chelsea forum I visit regularly; I don't get live games at college and this isn't the sort of thing that shows up in highlights) he stopped rolling around and started playing proper football in the last month or so of the season.

Of course, just because he's got a point doesn't mean he isn't being a whinging twat. After the support Jose gave him over the whole mistranslation mess, I've not got much sympathy for him wanting to jump ship.

Katon · 05-19-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Gallas and Drogba now unhappy and wanting to leave. Is the Chelsea team starting to break-up simply due to having too many good players who feel they should start, just as many predicted?

No. The Drogba situation has nothing to do with playing time, so you're basically looking at one starter. That's hardly a breakup. We'll miss Gallas a great deal, but a back line of Ferreira/Terry/Carvalho/Del Horno (or Bridge) is still probably the best in the league, and with our offense improving the team should hopefully be just as good next year.

Anyway, perhaps we should wait and see who leaves and who comes into replace them before declaring the team dead in the water?

AlexB · 05-19-2006, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katon

To be fair, he does get a disproportionate amount of stick for it - I could point to a number of other players who've pulled stunts every bit as embarassing as his worst dives and are generally regarded as epitomising the proper spirit of football. He's also been having a worse time because of a linguistic fuckup that had more to do with English being his second language than anything about his general honesty.

The obvious response to that is that he still dives more than most people, and if he doesn't want to get called on it he should just stop cheating. But by all accounts he actually did that over the last month or so of the season. Apparantly (this is going off reports on a Chelsea forum I visit regularly; I don't get live games at college and this isn't the sort of thing that shows up in highlights) he stopped rolling around and started playing proper football in the last month or so of the season.

Of course, just because he's got a point doesn't mean he isn't being a whinging twat. After the support Jose gave him over the whole mistranslation mess, I've not got much sympathy for him wanting to jump ship.

I have to say this is the most objective post from a Chelsea fan I have ever seen - I find no fault in it whatsoever. Other than the fact that the people that dive more than Drogba are Robben, Joe Cole....

05-18-2006, 10:09 PM	#753
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	I'm bored, so let's talk about the World Cup. We've talked at length about England's squad (with Walcott, et all), so if anyone cares (and I doubt anyone does ), I'll talk about the US. Interesting lineup and kind of like the English there are too many good MF and not enough forwards, though not as a result of injury and questionable picks (though leaving on Twellman may be seen by some as questionable). The key is Donovan. He has played forward with McBride and attacking center MF (his best position, IMO). The problem with him at AMC is who will play the second forward spot? Eddie Johnson is still recovering from injury and hasn't had the same explosiveness since he got hurt, but maybe Arena will get the best out of him as he has in the past. Wolff has done nothing special in qualifying and neither has Ching, though he is tearing it up in MLS, which doesn't necessarily mean anything. So, if only McBride is ok, a 4-5-1 may make sense, but Arena does perfer a 4-4-2. So I thought about Donovan's role and realized that perhaps a kind of 'tweener' formation could be used, depending on where Donovan is at on the field (he'd be given a free role, of course). So, I was thinking (Keller is in goal, obviously): ---------McBride --------------------Donovan ---Beasley---------------------Dempsey -----------Mastroeni---Reyna --Lewis---Onyewu---Gibbs---Cherundolo Convey can replace Beasley at a moment's notice. Bocanegra can spell Gibbs or even Lewis if need be. And if O'Brien is healthy (HA!), he can take over Dempsey's spot. The alternative is: --------McBride-----Johnson/Wolff ---------------Donovan ----Beasley----------------Dempsey ----------------Reyna --Lewis--Onyewu--Gibbs--Cherundolo If more defense is needed, Reyna takes over for Dempsey on the right wing and Masteroeni plays defensive mid. The offense will go through Donovan in both formations and Beasley will have to be responsible for providing a spark as well (if he can't, Convey has proven himself able). The defense is led by Onweyu, who is the best center back the US has ever produced (may be damning with faint praise, but Eddie Pope was pretty decent). Masteroni may be needed during the Italy game, and may require Reyna to play on the right (in a strict 4-4-2 diamond), but Dempsey should show in the other matches. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams Last edited by ISiddiqui : 05-18-2006 at 10:10 PM.

05-18-2006, 10:32 PM	#754
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	I will probably set up a new thread when the WC starts __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

05-18-2006, 10:35 PM	#755
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	NO! This thread must at least go to 1000 posts, dammit! Though I'd prefer the goal to take down the NHL thread (which will get 1000 before the Cup is handed out)! __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams Last edited by ISiddiqui : 05-18-2006 at 10:36 PM.

05-19-2006, 12:21 AM	#758
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Well, in defense of Balboa, he said if you are Eboue, you have to fall in that situation (and I think a lot of fans would applaud it for their team). For Deco, he was blaming the refs for not calling dives. Different situations there. Saying if you are a player, you have to try, but the refs have to be on the lookout. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

05-19-2006, 04:04 AM	#759
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	Let's get the FIFA World Cup conspiracy theories started. Alf pointed out to me yesterday that the official website of the tournament showed Germany-England as a lock for one of the second round matches. Sadly they fixed it now (not until after I saw it), but it sure was hilarious to see the people of the website think Germany will win the group and England will finish second in theirs. __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail

05-18-2006, 03:34 PM	#751
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	To my understanding, he could have waited a breath to see how the play ended to let the offense play their advantage (open goal and all) and still come back and book Lehmann with either cards. It would have been the correct call one way or the other. Red carding Lehmann was one of the few calls he got right. Besides Eboue's dive, Cole also had a free kick around midfield where Van Bommel didn't actually touch him. Toure, I think, deserved a yellow for one of his challenges around midway through the first. Henry's yellow was completely asstarded. It was COMPLETELY clean, he didn't touch the guy at all. In fact, he ended up being kicked on the follow through. On the other hand, Marquez should have gotten a yellow when he scythed down Henry. So did Oleguer when he pulled down Ljungberg when he would have been through. And a number of other times when he just pushed people down. It didn't really feel like he was favouring Barça as much as he just wasn't ready for a game of this scope. How I miss the bald headed dude.

05-18-2006, 03:47 PM	#752
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	The part that saddened me, as a football fan, was we missed the chance at a great game. We saw glimpses of it toward the beginning of the match. Instead, Arsenal bunkered down as they did in the 2nd Villarreal game. As an aside, I sort of felt the loss coming as soon as we bunkered down. We're just no good at it nor do we have the personnel for it. Villarreal would have been through, given how we played the 2nd game, if their finishing had not failed them. The part that saddened me, as an Arsenal fan, was that Barça was beatable this game. Ronaldinho was NOT the Ronaldinho that (deservedly) won 2 Player of the Year. Puyol was not the rock he usually is (in the few times I've seen him I've never seen him skinned like Henry did him and he had a slip and slide to let Cesc go by him). I thought Rijkaard missed it and we had a good chance to take them when he started Oleguer instead of Belleti and Van Bommel instead of Iniesta. I think he out-maneuvered Wenger, though, with his use of substitutions (Wenger has always been horrible with that). Iniesta was dangerous when he came on. Larsson, well, changed the match when he came on. Belleti gave them the threat on the right side that they lacked. I agreed with Henry (for a change) - who Smythe kept saying that he had an ongoing "dialogue" with his manager - that Wenger should have replaced Hleb with Reyes from around the hour mark on. Hleb's tank seemed to have been on 'E' well before he came out.

05-19-2006, 12:13 AM	#757
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	Finally got around to watching the match. I was cheering for Arsenal at the start as my heart is for the English teams, but after Eboue's dive and subsequent goal, I lost my taste for the game. Too bad, it could have been good if Lehmann hadn't grabbed Eto's foot. Everyone in England got to miss the wonderful defense of Eboue's dive by Marcelo Balboa on ESPN. Later on he gets on Deco for diving. Great role model for the kids.

05-19-2006, 04:53 AM	#760
condors College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	i think Eddie Pope will be starting if healthy while he may not be the best option but i think the Bruce trusts him. I am not very confindent of the US making it past the first stage though.

05-19-2006, 06:42 AM	#762
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	Just my European biased opinion (sic), but I think Italy and the Czech Republic are both strong enough in depth to be seen as two of the top three European teams, and thus potential semifinalists. The more I look at it, I think the USA have been screwed by the FIFA for not getting a higher seeded spot for the group phase. I'm not claiming this based on that wacky FIFA Ranking, but based on the 2002 performance. With Turkey and Senegal not there, it was pretty easy to seed the six remaining quarterfinalists (Bra, Ger, Kor, USA, Esp, Eng), and then add France and Croatia. Mexico, Argentina and Italy did not do enough in 1998 and 2002 to deserve a top seeded position. Granted, you have to be able to survive the group phase to be a deserved finalist, but when you can get the USA, Italy and the Czechs in one group, you're doing something wrong. I stick with the thought that having the MLS start in the spring wil help against the other teams, especially Italy. Secretly I've already written it down as a 1-0 win for the USA. But then I see the names of Gibbs and O'Brien mentioned in the potential lineup; all I can do is shake my head and fear for a short stay in Germany for Team USA. __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail Last edited by MIJB#19 : 05-19-2006 at 07:06 AM.

05-19-2006, 07:06 AM	#763
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	For those looking for a spreadsheet to toy with your predictions, I've created one and placed on my website http://football.netherlands.com/index_en.html. I also have a polite request to those who think I'm a Eurosnob, please keep your mouse cursor off my main work and download the Eurosnob version. That one is special made for you. __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail

05-19-2006, 07:17 AM	#765
ice4277 Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!	I think the U.S. can advance out of the group, but I wouldn't want to put money on it. Italy always looks beatable at times during a major final, and the Czechs can be a streaky squad as well. If the U.S. catches either team at an 'off' moment, we definitely have enough to take one of the qualifying spots. And look forward to Brazil in the second round! Yay!

05-19-2006, 07:24 AM	#766
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	I really think the USA can win the group, and avoid Brazil in the 2nd round. __________________ My listening habits

05-19-2006, 09:21 AM	#774
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Henry announced he's staying at Arsenal. They needed that one.

05-19-2006, 09:28 AM	#776
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	I appreciate the nationalism, Butter, but Crapshoot is correct. The US, talent wise, is at best the 3rd best team in the group. Now maybe the US will come up with a great gameplan, but you can't make a case that Italy or the Czech Republic has less talent than the US squad. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

05-19-2006, 10:09 AM	#779
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	You got to see that all over the world, optimism is at an all time high. You need to tone done all expectations and then after that figure out who the two-four surprises of the tournament will be. Wannabe champs: Brazil, Italy, Argentina, Spain Wannabe semifinalists: France, Germany, Netherlands, England Wannabe quarterfinalists: Czech Rep, Korea, USA, Mexico, Portugal, Croatia, Serbia Montenegro Wannabe second rounders: Tunisia, Poland, Paraguay, Sweden, Ecuador, Costa Rica, Australia, Japan, Ivory Coast, Ghana, Switzerland, Ukraine, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Angola, Togo Yah, man, it be already kool to be partin' at Germany, man: Trinidad & Tobago So, the likely performances will be: World Champ: Brazil Runners-Up: Argentina semifinalists: Italy, Spain quarterfinalists: France, Germany, Netherlands, England Second rounders: Czech Rep/USA, Korea, Mexico, Portugal, Croatia, Costa Rica, Ukraine/Tunisia, Trinidad & Tobago (surprise!) Coach to be fired soon: Tunisia/Ukraine, Poland, Paraguay, Sweden, Ecuador, Australia, Japan, Ivory Coast, Ghana, Switzerland, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Angola, Togo, Serbia Montenegro, USA/Czech Rep __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail Last edited by MIJB#19 : 05-19-2006 at 10:11 AM.

05-19-2006, 02:38 PM	#789
ice4277 Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!	dola Its useful to remember also that in '94, the US actually finished 3rd in its group, but went through as one of the two(?) best third-placed squads. Its only the top two getting through now.

05-19-2006, 04:09 PM	#793
AlexB Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Newbury, England	Love the fact that Drogba wants to leave Chelsea and England: since he was called on his perpetual cheating, he has been unhappy - aaahhhh, poor diddums. From SkyText: 'Drogba claims he is unhappy at being labelled a cheat and has hinted he wants a move... Drogba said "It is not a joke. I want to move on and avoid all the pressures and the scandals. Those things hurt my feelings. I want a place I can play freely and without drawbacks. You should know what a player endures with so much pressure" ' So basically he wants to be able to fall over, roll around, feign injury and not be called on it. The guy is an arrogant twat, and unfortuantely for him more and more people are realising this. Mourinho made me laugh in his press conference: 'Didier has two more years on his contract and he is one of the players I consider not neogtiable - he has no possibility to leave. If he plays with happiness, that is good for Chelsea. If he does not play with happiness... he does not play' __________________ 'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports! Last edited by AlexB : 05-19-2006 at 04:11 PM.

05-19-2006, 04:22 PM	#796
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	Maybe they can send him to Corinthians for Tevez.

05-19-2006, 04:26 PM	#797
tanglewood College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2004	Gallas and Drogba now unhappy and wanting to leave. Is the Chelsea team starting to break-up simply due to having too many good players who feel they should start, just as many predicted?

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