Alright Boyz, Here We Go! The FM2008/WWSM2008 First Impressions Thread - Page 16

Critch · 12-08-2007, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Anyone have any stories about D2D? Are you required to get your patched from them rather than SI directly?

I bought from D2D and my story is completely disinteresting. I paid for the game with no problems, I downloaded the game with no problems, and now I'm playing the game with no problems. I havent tried to do anything fancy, like re-install on a new machine, but so far I've had no problems.

So two big thumbs up for D2D from me.

Toddzilla · 12-08-2007, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daedalus

feeder club is nice and seems more expanded from what i saw in the '07 demo.

I haven't experienced that yet, but I'll keep trying - seemingly your board will actually *ask* you what kind of feeder club you want: one for merchandising, for first-option on good talent, a place to send your rookies, etc. Also, I think the nation from which the feeder clubs are chosen are influenced by where you send your scouts.

Sure beats loading-reloading 20 times until you get the option you want

ice4277 · 12-08-2007, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I haven't experienced that yet, but I'll keep trying - seemingly your board will actually *ask* you what kind of feeder club you want: one for merchandising, for first-option on good talent, a place to send your rookies, etc. Also, I think the nation from which the feeder clubs are chosen are influenced by where you send your scouts.

Sure beats loading-reloading 20 times until you get the option you want

I requested a parent club in my last season and chose West Ham from the list of options. They offered a number of players on loan that first season, but haven't offered up anything in season two, although I successfully requested a couple players to come.

Sweed · 12-08-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogMan

could you point out your favorite new features?

FM

Keep in mind that 06 was my first version and I skipped 07 (only because I play slow and it took me awhile to figure out the football world) so I might me mentioning some things that were already in 07.

I love the GUI, to me at least, it is soooo easy to get where I want to go. From the original screenies I thought I'd hate the color scheme but that hasn't been the case at all. I have found it very pleasing to the eye. The only thing in it I don't care for is the split news\inbox. I would prefer one box with filters I could control.

Some have criticized the 2d and match engine (long shots, closing down etc), now maybe it's my American ignorance when it comes to football but I haven't seen anything post patch that really jumps out at me as a huge problem. Too me the 2d is so much smoother than 06. I can see situations where through balls can\should be played developing and then see my player try to make the appropriate pass. I play as Cambridge City in the BSS and with 07 have been able to run a short passing, ball control tactic. In 06 for me to be successful it was get the ball and hoof it down the pitch.

Compared to 06 the player interaction is much improved.

Scouting, both assigning and reports, is much better. Getting differing opinions from you coaches and scouts on everyone on your squad and having to decide which scout or coach you trust the most is fun.

Feedback from the board.
Feedback from the fans after every match.
Expectations of the board spelled out, in some detail, at the beginning of the season.

Hell, I singed my best striker and leading scorer to a contract extension at
13,000 pounds per year plus incentives. Now my talented third ST (squad rotation role), making 7,500 per year, thinks he should be getting the same kind of money. If that was in 06 I didn't see it.

I'm loving the game and find it a huge improvement over 06. It's also nice to start a game already having some knowledge about how the football world works. With 06 it was a long slow 3 month process before I felt I had a handle on the game. With 08 I was able to just jump in and play mostly due to the help I received from members of this board, like you FM, two years ago.

dacman · 12-08-2007, 11:29 AM

Sweed, other than differenciated board confidence and different GUI design, the rest was in the 07 version in some form.

As I mentioned before, I have put the 08 version down (well, shipped it off to Frogman to be exact). A couple of things just drove me nuts with the 08 version, but I remain hopeful they'll be remedied in the next patch.

First, either the match engine or the 2D representation of it are very infuriating. Playing a counter-attacking style with pacey forwards and wings simply led to my players getting behind the defense and pounding shot after shot directly to the opposition keeper. I do not exagerate when I say 90% of my shots were straight at the keeper. It was comical how my players would get into a great goal scoring chance with over half the goal wide open, but still manage to shoot directly where the keeper was, even when he was on the complete opposite side of the goal mouth. At least in 07 there was some variation -- shooting over the bar (more rare in 08), shooting it just wide (very rare in 08), shooting towards the open net but the keeper makes a great reflex save (can't remember ever seeing it in 08), shooting it at the keeper but he can't save it (again not in 08), trying to round the keeper (rare in 07, but never in 08), the keeper parries the shot but not away from danger (every once in a while in 08), or passing it back across the middle trying to find another attacking run (again never seen it in 08). Frankly, there are too many chances being created with some tactics and it seems finishing has been nerfed in order to keep scores down when more attacking chances need to be destroyed by mishandling the ball, great defensive play or tackles, or blocked shots. Watching the 08 matches is like a game of ping-pong with the opposition keeper. Not enjoyable.

The second big problem I had was with the new board confidence features. It appears to me the boards weigh each competition equally, or at least terribly over-value 2nd tier cup competitions. I got fired after taking a BSN team to the promotion playoffs after the media thought we were relagation candidates mainly because the board was unhappy that we got bounced out of all 3 cups early. I can understand wanting FA Cup success because getting to round 3 proper or better in that competition can mean a huge payoff, but the FA Trophy or Sentana Shield? Who cares. When it happened a second time with Worchester City, I was done with 08 in its current form.

Flasch186 · 12-08-2007, 01:56 PM

I just scored a fluke goal on an indirect free kick with no one else touching it. I thought that that wouldnt be allowed, am I wrong?

...I hate the fact that I took over a new team and they were knocked out of their cup competition before I even got there yet the board is disappointed in me due to there poor performance there....I wasnt even here then, so cut me some F'n slack!

astrosfan64 · 12-08-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critch

I bought from D2D and my story is completely disinteresting. I paid for the game with no problems, I downloaded the game with no problems, and now I'm playing the game with no problems. I havent tried to do anything fancy, like re-install on a new machine, but so far I've had no problems.

So two big thumbs up for D2D from me.

D2D worked great for me too. I've bought quite a few games from them with no issues.

Toddzilla · 12-08-2007, 03:59 PM

I was finally able to get WWSM to generate a preview email that has all the codes needed purportedly to unlock the game. However, the application doesn't permit copy-and-paste, nor is there are right-click menu. So I took a screenshot ans sent it off to Boonty.

This morning their response was "you need to cut and paste this into an email in order for us to generate your key".

So it's D2D for me, since I'm not waiting until Monday or Tuesday for another round of Boonty tech-support hell.

DaddyTorgo · 12-08-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I was finally able to get WWSM to generate a preview email that has all the codes needed purportedly to unlock the game. However, the application doesn't permit copy-and-paste, nor is there are right-click menu. So I took a screenshot ans sent it off to Boonty.

This morning their response was "you need to cut and paste this into an email in order for us to generate your key".

So it's D2D for me, since I'm not waiting until Monday or Tuesday for another round of Boonty tech-support hell.

that's fucked up. They can go fuck themselves. A screenshot ought be better than "cut n paste"

TroyF · 12-08-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacman

Sweed, other than differenciated board confidence and different GUI design, the rest was in the 07 version in some form.

As I mentioned before, I have put the 08 version down (well, shipped it off to Frogman to be exact). A couple of things just drove me nuts with the 08 version, but I remain hopeful they'll be remedied in the next patch.

First, either the match engine or the 2D representation of it are very infuriating. Playing a counter-attacking style with pacey forwards and wings simply led to my players getting behind the defense and pounding shot after shot directly to the opposition keeper. I do not exagerate when I say 90% of my shots were straight at the keeper. It was comical how my players would get into a great goal scoring chance with over half the goal wide open, but still manage to shoot directly where the keeper was, even when he was on the complete opposite side of the goal mouth. At least in 07 there was some variation -- shooting over the bar (more rare in 08), shooting it just wide (very rare in 08), shooting towards the open net but the keeper makes a great reflex save (can't remember ever seeing it in 08), shooting it at the keeper but he can't save it (again not in 08), trying to round the keeper (rare in 07, but never in 08), the keeper parries the shot but not away from danger (every once in a while in 08), or passing it back across the middle trying to find another attacking run (again never seen it in 08). Frankly, there are too many chances being created with some tactics and it seems finishing has been nerfed in order to keep scores down when more attacking chances need to be destroyed by mishandling the ball, great defensive play or tackles, or blocked shots. Watching the 08 matches is like a game of ping-pong with the opposition keeper. Not enjoyable.

The second big problem I had was with the new board confidence features. It appears to me the boards weigh each competition equally, or at least terribly over-value 2nd tier cup competitions. I got fired after taking a BSN team to the promotion playoffs after the media thought we were relagation candidates mainly because the board was unhappy that we got bounced out of all 3 cups early. I can understand wanting FA Cup success because getting to round 3 proper or better in that competition can mean a huge payoff, but the FA Trophy or Sentana Shield? Who cares. When it happened a second time with Worchester City, I was done with 08 in its current form.

It's funny when two people have the same game and have wildly different views. I have had your second issue and it's infuriating to me. I've been playing as Arsenal and had a year where I won the CL, EPL and FA cup. And the board was only "satisfied" The only reason they could have been that is because of my performence in the LC. That's simply ridiculous. After that year, they should be freakin thrilled with me until I show them I can't coach or have a series of bad losses.

But the first thing with the shot attempts in 2D? I'm just not getting it. When I have a problem, it almost always involves my guys NOT hitting the target. They miss wide, high, left, right, etc. Yeah, sometimes they kick it straight at em, but not as a rule. In the last game I played, West Ham had 2 guys ejected. I put up 38 shots. Only 15 of those shots were on target. (I scored 5) Of the 23 I shot off target, they were all over the place.

I don't doubt you've seen what you did, but I didn't experience that aspect of it either pre or post patch.

Flasch186 · 12-08-2007, 07:05 PM

So stupid that I got fired after raising the team UP in the table since joining them, wasn't their coach when they got knocked out of the cup competitions and have been there about 3 months gametime....Marc, you got some splainin' to do. Lots of wasted gametime for that to happen.

How can I join a team after they fire a coach because the board is disappointed if theyre only going to be pissed at me the minute I walk through the door?

Flasch186 · 12-08-2007, 07:29 PM

DOLA:

Weird. So I pick up another LL team in Italy and the Board says that they recognize that I wasn't the coach during the team's failures in cup competition. I mustve hit the sweet spot on the calendar for the last board not to see the same thing.

Marc Vaughan · 12-08-2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186

So stupid that I got fired after raising the team UP in the table since joining them, wasn't their coach when they got knocked out of the cup competitions and have been there about 3 months gametime....Marc, you got some splainin' to do. Lots of wasted gametime for that to happen.

How can I join a team after they fire a coach because the board is disappointed if theyre only going to be pissed at me the minute I walk through the door?

If you've got a save game before the sacking please forward it to me and we'll look into it asap.

path12 · 12-09-2007, 12:18 AM

A question for Marc when you get a chance. Does the board overview of your performance take into account team injuries? I've got two of my main player out on inj and the board is slightly disappointed with my performance (mid-table instead of top half).

Marc Vaughan · 12-09-2007, 09:12 AM

IRL boards (and to a large extent fans) are notoriously lacking in gentleness in taking into account injuries which might be beyond a managers control.

For instance when Micheal Owen was injured for large parts of Newcastles season last year the board (and fans) still expected great things from the team.

Flasch186 · 12-09-2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

If you've got a save game before the sacking please forward it to me and we'll look into it asap.

Of course I dont

but it was in Italy Sirie C/1

Im at a better team now that appreciates my fantastic services.

Marc Vaughan · 12-09-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Of course I dont

but it was in Italy Sirie C/1

Im at a better team now that appreciates my fantastic services.

Thats a shame and I'm glad your new club appreciated you more

(on a more serious note one of the on-going challenges creating FM is that we don't script any of the game or AI and as such its amazingly fluid in gameplay - this means that you can get some great and 'natural' knock on effects (for instance - a players moaning might cause him to under-perform, leading to the manager in question listing him, causing the fans to question the manager, the manager to be sacked and the player who caused all the problems initially to announce he's now happy

) but it also means where things might seem odd are hard to track down without an instance in question to interrogate in a debugger, incidentally quite often these 'oddities' are actually sensible and the deficiency is that the game doesn't explain its reasoning well enough ... something we're continually trying to improve.)

/End of Drivelly post which went on far longer than I really wanted

Critch · 12-09-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186

So stupid that I got fired after raising the team UP in the table since joining them, wasn't their coach when they got knocked out of the cup competitions and have been there about 3 months gametime....Marc, you got some splainin' to do. Lots of wasted gametime for that to happen.

I haven't seen anything as extreme as this luckily, but my monthly update from the board tells me every month about how happy they are with one of my new signings despite the fact that it was the previous manager who signed him. So I guess it works both ways. You can be blamed for the previous guy's mistakes, but you can get credit too.

The weightings of the individual tournaments needs some work too. I started this game as manager of England to see if I could do better than McClaren (I could), England won the Euro Championships and qualified for the World Cup easily, but every month I'd get a "less than satisfied" message from the FA as I'd only made the QF of the Confederations Cup instead of the semi as the FA had hoped.

And while I'm complaining about international management, I'll add this. When England won the European Championships, the tournament "dream team" starting 11 was 10 English players and a single Italian player. Probably would have been 11 England players, but my 11th guy got injured so I'd split that position between 2 players.

And another thing, right in the middle of the Euro Championships my assistant manager retired with immediate affect, so I had to do the team talks myself. Then 2 years later at the World Cup finals, my new assistant manager retired too. Coaching staff shouldn't retire mid-tournament.

The game is definitely eating up a lot of my time, but it's still a patch or two away from being problem free.

Sweed · 12-09-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Thats a shame and I'm glad your new club appreciated you more

(on a more serious note one of the on-going challenges creating FM is that we don't script any of the game or AI and as such its amazingly fluid in gameplay - this means that you can get some great and 'natural' knock on effects (for instance - a players moaning might cause him to under-perform, leading to the manager in question listing him, causing the fans to question the manager, the manager to be sacked and the player who caused all the problems initially to announce he's now happy

) but it also means where things might seem odd are hard to track down without an instance in question to interrogate in a debugger, incidentally quite often these 'oddities' are actually sensible and the deficiency is that the game doesn't explain its reasoning well enough ... something we're continually trying to improve.)

/End of Drivelly post which went on far longer than I really wanted

Marc, never apologize for your posts being drivel or too long. I enjoy reading them and getting a little more insight into the depth of FM. Reading posts like this, by both users(mostly here at fofc) and SI staff, is what finally got me past the game being "boring soccer" and give it a chance. And as we well know once you enter the world of FM there is no escape

path12 · 12-09-2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critch

I haven't seen anything as extreme as this luckily, but my monthly update from the board tells me every month about how happy they are with one of my new signings despite the fact that it was the previous manager who signed him. So I guess it works both ways. You can be blamed for the previous guy's mistakes, but you can get credit too.

One of the things my fans are disappointed in is the backup goalkeeper that came on loan from my parent team.....not much I can do about that one.

Big Fo · 12-09-2007, 08:18 PM

For whatever reason my team has lost three straight after going unbeaten for our first 26 games in the league, we're still dominating the opposition but just can't get a break I guess. Now there's gonna be a title race after what looked to be smooth sailing a few weeks ago.

I've still never been able to have an undefeated league campaign in any of the CM/FM games. The closest I came was 30 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss in the penultimate game with Feyenoord on either FM05 or FM06, by far the best season I've ever had. Those games were a bit easier than FM07 and FM08 though.

Toddzilla · 12-10-2007, 08:02 AM

Final irony...

Boonty has relented and finally agreed to giving me a refund...

...so I have to send a *letter* to their offices in France in order to be considered.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-10-2007, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Final irony...

Boonty has relented and finally agreed to giving me a refund...

...so I have to send a *letter* to their offices in France in order to be considered.

LOL.......you should print out Marc Vaughn's post about the company being jacked up and attach it to your refund request.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-10-2007, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Fo

For whatever reason my team has lost three straight after going unbeaten for our first 26 games in the league, we're still dominating the opposition but just can't get a break I guess. Now there's gonna be a title race after what looked to be smooth sailing a few weeks ago.

I was promoted to the German 3rd division. I won my first 11 games in the new league, but I finally got a draw and my team's confidence absolutely plummeted. Pretty frustrating as I now have 13 wins, 5 draws and 6 losses. I thought I was going to breeze right through the 3rd division, but now I'm in 6th place. Ah well, I only upped the expectations to top-half finish, so I should still be fine (I hope).

wbatl1 · 12-10-2007, 12:11 PM

Aaaahhhhh! I honestly don't know how realistic this is, but I just lost 4 players (Scholes, Rooney, Nani, and Giggs) in my Man U game to long-term injuries in one game! I had to finish the game (30 min) with 9 men! I don't know how often this actually happens in real life (I would expect very rarely), but it really sucks!

Izulde · 12-10-2007, 03:56 PM

I remember getting nailed hard with striker injuries as I was mounting a promotion challenge.

Pulled it out, though

I still need to advance that game, too.... course I also still have about three posts to write for my CK dynasty

Dunleavy · 12-10-2007, 06:13 PM