NBA Draft Lottery/Draft/Offseason thread.

[Coffee Warlord]

And now I hold out the hopes that Detroit throws a ton of money at Ben Gordon.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

The results dont really lie. There is a reason the European teams can play with the USA since 1992 and we probably would all agree the USA has better athletes as far as basketball is concerned.

1992? Don't you mean 2000?

If you saw someone playing competitively with either the first or the second Dream Teams, let me know where cuz I musta missed it.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

*Tho, realistically, we won because we got really lucky and they bricked a bunch of FTs and we got a miracle pair of threes down the stretch.

To be fair, when you can play a close game against a poorly coached, undisciplined, terrible freethrow shooting team that is loaded with athletes and used to blowing everyone out, you put yourself in a great position to get lucky.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by TroyF

If you don't think athleticism is a critical reason the NBA is the top league, you are crazy.

How many guys with the athleticism of a Rajon Rondo has young Ricky faced? Guess what, every team in this league has freakish athletes. You are talking about a league full of 6'9" and above PF/C who can make PG's lives miserable when they penetrate. Especially guys who take SET SHOTS from beyond 15 feet. (Yeah, I'm talking about Rubio, see how quickly that set shot works in this league. . . I'd have loved to have seen him try it at the college level too)

Lastly, when are people going to understand what went wrong with USA basketball from '92 til this year? Is it really that tough to figure out? We had a bunch of all-stars playing selfishly, coaches who mailed it in (I'm looking at you Larry Brown and George Karl), no familiarity with each other, and everyone tried to play the NBA game on an international level.

A few years ago we decided to get smart. Get a coach who took it seriously, force players to make commitments, got leadership from the best players, put in a system that could excel in international competition,

From that point on, we started blitzing teams again. Not just beating them, but pounding them. Look at the results:

2008 FIBA qualifying:

US played Argentina twice, beating them 91-76 and then 118-81 in the championship game. They didn't lose a game in the tourney and scored 112 points in 9 of their 10 games. (no other team in the tourney scored over 108 points and there were only 7 games where a non USA team scored 100 points)

2008 Olympics:

The US crushed every team they played by over 20 points until the final. Spain put up a fight and the US still won by 11. Rubio hit one shot in 29 minutes in that game by the way.

Again, if you want to pretend athleticism in basketball doesn't matter, be my guest. I can assure you that you are wrong in that assessment.

Nice rant! Unfortunately this rant was all for not because really who said athleticism didnt matter????

[Sublime 2]

If the Celtics are able to get Rasheed and re-sign Marbury, the offseason will have been a huge PLUS. Especially considering the pretty unspectacular offseason they had last year. If they are able to add in another PF/C body behind KG, Perk, and Sheed...even better!

[DeToxRox]

Good to see Joe Dumars is content having a team that plays no defense ever. Apparently Charlie Eyebrows and Ben Gordon are closing in on verbal agreements.

Get Dumars out of there, this is terrible.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

1992? Don't you mean 2000?

If you saw someone playing competitively with either the first or the second Dream Teams, let me know where cuz I musta missed it.

You would be correct I had forgotten about DT2.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I am not sure Memphis had better athletes than Kansas at all. Derrick Rose was obviously the best player on the court, but Kansas might have had the next 6 or 7 after that. A big deal was made out of Dorsey, but I think had he been on Kansas' roster, he would have been behind Cole Aldrich.

Kansas won in 2008 because they had the most talent, as did UNC in 2009.

Kansas had more talent Memphis had more athleticism. Dozier, Dorsey, and Taggart(to a lesser extent) were all 6 9, 6 10 and could jump and run like few other players that size and a huge reason they had such a dominate defense.

And yes Kansas was also very athletic as well. Kansas had better athletes at the non big positions.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Kansas had more talent Memphis had more athleticism. Dozier, Dorsey, and Taggart(to a lesser extent) were all 6 9, 6 10 and could jump and run like few other players that size and a huge reason they had such a dominate defense.

And yes Kansas was also very athletic as well. Kansas had better athletes at the non big positions.

You mention 3 great athletes. Kansas had far, far more. That was my point about MORE, not better.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

If the Celtics are able to get Rasheed and re-sign Marbury, the offseason will have been a huge PLUS. Especially considering the pretty unspectacular offseason they had last year. If they are able to add in another PF/C body behind KG, Perk, and Sheed...even better!

Sheed? Yuck. No thanks.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Good to see Joe Dumars is content having a team that plays no defense ever. Apparently Charlie Eyebrows and Ben Gordon are closing in on verbal agreements.

Get Dumars out of there, this is terrible.

I've been really non-committal to what happens with Gordon in Chicago. I wouldn't mind having his scoring back but I also know he is a horrific defender.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Sheed? Yuck. No thanks.

If they get him for the MLE for two years, then I'm 100% behind it. That interior D would be a nightmare for opposing teams, and his ability to stretch the floor continues to open up the lane for Rondo/Allen/Pierce/TA etc. If we only have one motivated year of Sheed, it's well worth it!

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

If the Celtics are able to get Rasheed and re-sign Marbury, the offseason will have been a huge PLUS. Especially considering the pretty unspectacular offseason they had last year. If they are able to add in another PF/C body behind KG, Perk, and Sheed...even better!

Assuming they're letting Baby go, then I'd rather they just re-sign Powe for that purpose and look for a backup swingman.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Assuming they're letting Baby go, then I'd rather they just re-sign Powe for that purpose and look for a backup swingman.

Even if they re-signed Powe, there's no guarantee he's back and playing before next spring. I'm sure he won't be himself for another 6-12 months after that.

Sheed is easily the best PF/C we can hope for this offseason, and that position is by far the biggest concern going into the season.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Even if they re-signed Powe, there's no guarantee he's back and playing before next spring. I'm sure he won't be himself for another 6-12 months after that.

Sheed is easily the best PF/C we can hope for this offseason, and that position is by far the biggest concern going into the season.

No, I meant for the 4th spot after Sheed.

[DeToxRox]

Pistons strike deal with Gordon - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

Ben Gordon gets 5 years, 55 mil from the Pistons.

Shoot me now.

Stuckey and Gordon = Worst defensive backcourt in the NBA.

At least Rip can leave this mess since it's obvious he'll be dealt.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Pistons strike deal with Gordon - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

Ben Gordon gets 5 years, 55 mil from the Pistons.

Shoot me now.

Stuckey and Gordon = Worst defensive backcourt in the NBA.

At least Rip can leave this mess since it's obvious he'll be dealt.

lol - for real. who's supposed to play defense on that team?

[DeToxRox]

Oh joy, Pistons also agree to terms (according to ESPN) with another defensive juggernaut, Charlie Villanueva.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, 5 years, 35 mil for Charlie Eyebrows.

[RainMaker]

I don't get it. Stuckey, Gordon and Villanueva are horrible defenders. They put up some points but they will be giving up 120 a night.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't get it. Stuckey, Gordon and Villanueva are horrible defenders. They put up some points but they will be giving up 120 a night.

Tayshaun isn't that great a defender either. This is terrible. Tay gets abused by physical SF because he is too slender and just gets pounded. Then we draft a guy in the 1st round (Daye) who's frailer then he is.

Joe Dumars is a god damn joke these days I am afraid.

Thanks for the title, I appreciate it, but 10 years from now I'll be wondering when the next one is coming.

[DeToxRox]

This also means we get to trade our best player (Rip) for a big man. I assume they'll try getting Chandler or Kaman. Whoever it is might be the one guy we get who can play D.

[RainMaker]

I mean Ben had some great moments in Chicago and I enjoyed watching him play, but I'm not sad to see him go for that kind of money. He would regularly get abused on the defensive end. I still think he's a 6th man who should be making around $7-$8 million a year.

[miami_fan]

On one hand I want to commend Joe for NOT waiting until the free agent class of 2010 and actually trying to improve the team for the upcoming season. On the other hand.......some interesting signings there. Add to that the rumors that Doug Collins is the leading candidate for the head coaching job. Hmmm.....

[MrBug708]

I guess Afflalo isn't see any daylight?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I guess Afflalo isn't see any daylight?

He'll play a lot at this point. Someone has to go out there and play something close to defense.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, I say that because Rip is for sure gone now. He or Tayshaun anyway.

[Coffee Warlord]

Yay! No more Gordon!

[Swaggs]

Detroit is becoming UConn North w/ the two new guys plus Rip.

[Neuqua]

Yeah, I am not losing any sleep over losing BG really. I would have been content had he re-signed for $7mil or so but anything over that I felt was just overpaying.

It's time to let Rose handle the ball with the game on the line anyway, no more confusion anymore.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Apparently Charlie Eyebrows

1/3 of the ugliest front court in history with Ed Nelson and Josh Boone.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Dola, I say that because Rip is for sure gone now. He or Tayshaun anyway.

apparently Gordon agreed to come off the bench, acording to articles in Detroit´s papers at least.
If it was just one of the 2 i´d think it were good signings, the contracts aren´t too bad and pretty good for unrestricted FAs, but both seems to stretch it for a team concept...
And now Avery Johnson as Coach ? His head will explode before long (then again he even got the Mavs to a respectable level defensively ...)

EDIT : The Blazers and Raptors apparently are pushing to sign either Turkoglu or Ariza. Turkoglu apparently would be paid similar to Gordon and Ariza should get between 32 and 40 mio (over 5 years i´d guess)
I´d love both in Portland, assuming they still manage to keep Fernandez, somehow get either a quality backup or an upgrade at PG.
And of course McMillan would have to come to grips with the fact that he needs to give his players some responsibility as in the POs you need support for your stars.

[law90026]

Do you really believe Gordon would agree to that, considering he was upset about it in Chicago? It's easy to say the right things when you're in for a big payday .. it's another thing when the season starts.

[Gary Gorski]

The reports are Gordon was told that up front so if that's true then he signed the deal either knowing he's going to play super sub or assuming that they'll get rid of Rip. What doesn't make sense in that scenario though is why fire Curry (other than the obvious) if you were going to get rid of Rip?

Personally I think its a bad signing - not because Gordon isn't good - he's a very good scorer - but because the idea of super sub is great when you have a very average starter you're replacing. Manu can come in and be an all-star 6th man because over time he was replacing the likes of an old Michael Finley and Brent Barry - guys who aren't primary offensive options to start with. Rip and Stuckey certainly don't fall into that category. All I see is either Gordon not getting enough minutes to do his scoring or taking minutes and/or shots away from Rip - either way the plan sucks, much like pretty much all other plans from Dumars recently.

[Gary Gorski]

dola

And don't even get me started on CV - if he couldn't play a major role in Milwaukee then why should that change here? I don't know why we pass on opportunity after opportunity to address our real needs like a physical low post player (Millsap) but apparently we need more scoring guards and stick thin small forwards.

[whomario]

on another note the Grizzlies seem to have a trade Q-Rich for Zach Randolph in place, so they will possibly field a pretty good offensive player and a pretty good defensive Player in the frontcourt.
Too bad at the same time they also will field a terribly bad defender and a really raw offensive player.

Thabeet+Randolph = weird on many levels.

Just imagine what they´ll be thinking playing together :

Zach : Boy, that kid can´t even score from point blank and why is he running up and down so fast ? And why is he jumping around so much on defense , should i try that as well ? But i can´t jump anyway, so that sure isn´t in coach´s mind, is it ? And what is that shot blocking thing everyone is talking about ? Could i do that ?

Thabeet : Coach, why is that guy allways 5 seconds late in our half, is that a new defense we didn´t play in College ? And why is he hitting all those close shots when he is so small and is jumping even less high than me ? And hwy is he shooting every time anyway ? Is that so that i have it easier to get offensive rebounds coach ?


But Memphis isn´t going anywhere next season anyway and Randolph will be a big expiring next year, so i won´t say it´s absolutely terrible just yet ...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by whomario

on another note the Grizzlies seem to have a trade Q-Rich for Zach Randolph in place, so they will possibly field a pretty good offensive player and a pretty good defensive Player in the frontcourt.
Too bad at the same time they also will field a terribly bad defender and a really raw offensive player.

Thabeet+Randolph = weird on many levels.

Just imagine what they´ll be thinking playing together :

Zach : Boy, that kid can´t even score from point blank and why is he running up and down so fast ? And why is he jumping around so much on defense , should i try that as well ? But i can´t jump anyway, so that sure isn´t in coach´s mind, is it ? And what is that shot blocking thing everyone is talking about ? Could i do that ?

Thabeet : Coach, why is that guy allways 5 seconds late in our half, is that a new defense we didn´t play in College ? And why is he hitting all those close shots when he is so small and is jumping even less high than me ? And hwy is he shooting every time anyway ? Is that so that i have it easier to get offensive rebounds coach ?


But Memphis isn´t going anywhere next season anyway and Randolph will be a big expiring next year, so i won´t say it´s absolutely terrible just yet ...

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by whomario

But Memphis isn´t going anywhere next season anyway and Randolph will be a big expiring next year, so i won´t say it´s absolutely terrible just yet ...

Oh it's terrible and Grizzlies fans should be outraged. They had a legit shot to get David Lee who a) can run the floor b) plays his ass off c) rebounds very well and d) takes high percentage shots. Instead they end up with Zach Randolph who does rebound but certainly doesn't fall into a, b or d.

Randolph's teams have never gone anywhere - look at Portland now. David Lee doesn't make them a playoff team but at least they're a young, energetic team with Conley, Mayo, Gay, Lee and Gasol with Thabeet on the bench.

What sucks for Grizzlies fans (the 12 that are left) is that Heisley wanted this done to be cheap. Randolph's got two years left on his deal and they would have had to give Lee 4-5. If you're going to operate a team like that why even have one?

[Coffee Warlord]

So Detroit basically signed a $55 million bench player? Tee hee.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

If you're going to operate a team like that why even have one?

I've never understood this. If you want to turn your millions into more millions, then invest in actual investments.

If you want to turn your millions into being the big cheese who owns a team and wins championships, then do that.

I don't get the guy who decides to buy a team but then worries about spending too much money. What's the fun in that? It's like deciding to spend $200,000 for a sportcar, but making sure to never drive it above 55 mph because you don't want to strain the engine too much.

Either be a playa or don't. What's the fun in owning a sucky team and worrying more about the bottom line than the product on the court/field/rink?

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by whomario

EDIT : The Blazers and Raptors apparently are pushing to sign either Turkoglu or Ariza. Turkoglu apparently would be paid similar to Gordon and Ariza should get between 32 and 40 mio (over 5 years i´d guess)
I´d love both in Portland, assuming they still manage to keep Fernandez, somehow get either a quality backup or an upgrade at PG.
And of course McMillan would have to come to grips with the fact that he needs to give his players some responsibility as in the POs you need support for your stars.

The Raptors can't afford Turkoglu. If they sign him they have no money left to fill out their roster. They were a very thin team last year and I don't think Colangelo will let that happen again. Word is they are looking at Klieza as well as bringing back Carlos Delfino.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I've never understood this. If you want to turn your millions into more millions, then invest in actual investments.

If you want to turn your millions into being the big cheese who owns a team and wins championships, then do that.

I don't get the guy who decides to buy a team but then worries about spending too much money. What's the fun in that? It's like deciding to spend $200,000 for a sportcar, but making sure to never drive it above 55 mph because you don't want to strain the engine too much.

Either be a playa or don't. What's the fun in owning a sucky team and worrying more about the bottom line than the product on the court/field/rink?

i agree. skinflint owners suck

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

The Raptors can't afford Turkoglu. If they sign him they have no money left to fill out their roster. They were a very thin team last year and I don't think Colangelo will let that happen again. Word is they are looking at Klieza as well as bringing back Carlos Delfino.

They better do more than bring in Delfino and whoever this other dude is? They need a good, defensive SF imo.

[Icy]

News on Rubio from the Spanish press (not official until he confirms it).

It seems that he is giving out and he will stay one year in his current team, as the salary for being #5 is not enough to pay his buyout clause, plus he wanted to go to a bigger market team that the wolves.

His team GM said that he won't play there unless he retires his lawsuit against them, and it seems that he is going to do it soon. That way they can start to negotiate to lower the buyout clause if he plays there the incoming season.

At the end i think he has been really bad advised by his agent Fegan. They gambled too high and lost. Instead of talking bad about teams (Memphis, Minnesota, Oklahoma), refusing to workout, not being clear about if he would go to the NBA or stay in Spain, etc, he should have said how much he loved to play in any NBA team, done workouts as required and to end being drafted #2 or #3 as he was predicted, that would have allowed him to pay his buyout clause without problems.

Now he is going back home with a damaged image both in USA and Spain. To play in his current team is not going to be so fun either with all the fans and the GM looking bad at him and probably booing him at home games.

His only chance to scape from that situation is to have an incredible European championship with the Spanish national team (will be played next September) to raise everybody's eyes at him and with an NBA team making a crazy trade offer to Min that they can't refuse. He might have a good chance to show how he can play, as the starting PG Calderon has refused to play in the national team to better recover from past season injuries, so Rubio should have a lot of PT or even start.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Icy

News on Rubio from the Spanish press (not official until he confirms it).

It seems that he is giving out and he will stay one year in his current team, as the salary for being #5 is not enough to pay his buyout clause, plus he wanted to go to a bigger market team that the wolves.

His team GM said that he won't play there unless he retires his lawsuit against them, and it seems that he is going to do it soon. That way they can start to negotiate to lower the buyout clause if he plays there the incoming season.

At the end i think he has been really bad advised by his agent Fegan. They gambled too high and lost. Instead of talking bad about teams (Memphis, Minnesota, Oklahoma), refusing to workout, not being clear about if he would go to the NBA or stay in Spain, etc, he should have said how much he loved to play in any NBA team, done workouts as required and to end being drafted #2 or #3 as he was predicted, that would have allowed him to pay his buyout clause without problems.

Now he is going back home with a damaged image both in USA and Spain. To play in his current team is not going to be so fun either with all the fans and the GM looking bad at him and probably booing him at home games.

His only chance to scape from that situation is to have an incredible European championship with the Spanish national team (will be played next September) to raise everybody's eyes at him and with an NBA team making a crazy trade offer to Min that they can't refuse. He might have a good chance to show how he can play, as the starting PG Calderon has refused to play in the national team to better recover from past season injuries, so Rubio should have a lot of PT or even start.

He's being a little jerk about this. "I don't wanna play for Minnesota. I only want to play for the following teams." -- I might have to put him on my "Eli Manning list."

If he hadn't been so difficult about it from the beginning there's a chance he goes higher and gets enough to pay his buyout.

But yeah, his agent bears some blame too.

[miami_fan]

Ron Artest says he is going to the Lakers.

NBA free agency: Ron Artest says he's leaving Houston Rockets for Los Angeles Lakers - ESPN

[stevew]

I would assume this pushes Odom to someone else? Or does it make ariza leaving a certainty?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

I would assume this pushes Odom to someone else? Or does it make ariza leaving a certainty?

The talk out of the Ariza camp has him half out the door already, and Artest and Ariza pretty much do the same thing. So this affects Ariza much more than Odom, whom I would guess is still going to end up back with the Lakers.

[MrBug708]

Am I the only one who doesnt think Shaq really wants to win one for Lebron but rather, win more then Kobe?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Am I the only one who doesnt think Shaq really wants to win one for Lebron but rather, win more then Kobe?

Well there's also every other Lakers homer who first assumes that every decision Shaq makes is related to what Kobe is doing in some way.