Beijing Olympics 2008

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I think Phelps was amazing, but that's absurd - swimming lends itself to far more medals than other sports. You have the 50, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1500M races, along with one in each style (freestyle, breaststroke, backstroke, butterfly), along with the medleys and relays, etc etc. Running has far less.

If you are going to include every swimming event you also need to include long distance running, walking and maybe triathlon and pentathlon/decathlon. When you put all those together I bet the difference in events is pretty slim.

[larrymcg421]

I wonder what it would take for a swimmer to have an incredible achievement. I mean if someone comes along and smashes Phelps record with like 12 Golds in the 2016 games, will people be saying, "Big deal! There are too many swimming events!"?

[spleen1015]

How many races did Bolt run for his amazing achievement?

How many races did Phelps swim for his amazing achievement?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Someone else has to break it first to make him setting a new record relevant.

But the record he set the other night broke his own record, and people are talking about it.

[Groundhog]

OK, Let's settle this once and for all:

SWIMMING SUCKS

OK, now let's go back to our TVs and start enjoying the proper Olympics.

[mtolson]

The fact that Bolt hasn't run the 100 competitively and now shows up running fast times is not all that surprising. He has been around for a couple years running the 200, which too is a flat out sprint to the finish. His training for the 200 and 400 more than prepared him for the 100. It's not like he was a middle distance guy then all the sudden wins a sprinting event. He has been training as a sprinter since he was young. My guess (and just a guess) is that somewhere along the line he has greatly improved his start and first 20 meter times.

While his accomplishment is great, its not that far out of the park as people may think. To this day, Tyson Gay still has the fastest recored time in the 100 at 9.68, to which he also pulled up at the end of the race. Obadele Thompson also has also run a 9.69.

[mtolson]

Bolt's race was extremely exciting but to those that follow T&F it was a little disappointing in the fact that it had the potential to be a show down of 3 world class sprinters that have ALL run 9.74 or faster but ended up being a 1 man race, which made it look even more dramatic. His Jamican counter-part, Asafa Powell, showed just how easy it was to one day run a 9.74 and the next be in the back of the pack. Tyson gay may say he was 100% but the lack of ability to train for a month prior to the olympics had to take a toll on his abilities. Had Gay not been injured we could easily be taking about him. While Bolt's best event supposedly is the 200, he best time of 19.67 run THIS year still trails Tyson Gays 19.62 run last year.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

why are they more sacred though? aren't they

1) statistically more likely to be doping
2) also utilizing technology - tracks designed to be "faster", as well as scientifically-designed shoes that are both lighter and designed to aid the runners in all kinds of ways with cushioning and stuff like that (that I freely admit I don't totally understand)

??

the answer to both of those questions is: "yes"

The difference is that the advancements in track-and-field in that sense get less airtime than the changes in the swimming.

There really aren't any "sacred" sports anymore where you don't see the impact of technology - maybe something like discus or shot-put is the only type of event.

I think track events are, in some sense, more "sacred" than swimming events. Phelps' performance certainly has been incredible, but that being said, running is somehow more elementary, more basic, more fundamental and more universal in a human sense. Everyone on the planet who has the physical ability to run has done so at some point in their life. This can't be said about swimming. That's what makes Bolt's performance so amazing to me. He is far and away the fastest on the planet doing something all of us who are physically capable have done at least once in our lives. Phelps is great, but I can't say the same thing about him.

[lordscarlet]

I enjoy the swimming events far more than T&F.

[lordscarlet]

dola: I don't get the amazingness of Bolt. He beat a WR by .02 that he had already beaten before. So what?

[MikeVic]

Geez you people, both achievements were awesome and I don't think you can compare them.

The 100M is one of the premier events, so it gets a lot of attention and means a lot to some countries. Donovan Bailey said it best when he said that Bolt will have a holiday and his face on money one day. Swimming might not have the same wow factor, but Phelps had to win many races and perform at his best in each one in order to achieve what he did. Maybe not individually as sexy as the 100M, but eight golds is frickin' crazy. I do agree that swimming needs to lose some races though.

[Fidatelo]

Good weekend for Canada, we went from 0 medals to 8 in a couple of days. We are now tied with Phelps!

[MikeVic]

We have to win eight medals every two days now.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ajaxab

I think track events are, in some sense, more "sacred" than swimming events. Phelps' performance certainly has been incredible, but that being said, running is somehow more elementary, more basic, more fundamental and more universal in a human sense. Everyone on the planet who has the physical ability to run has done so at some point in their life. This can't be said about swimming. That's what makes Bolt's performance so amazing to me. He is far and away the fastest on the planet doing something all of us who are physically capable have done at least once in our lives. Phelps is great, but I can't say the same thing about him.

you can't swim?

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

you can't swim?

I can swim, but I know a lot of people who can't and have no desire to learn.

[lordscarlet]

I know a lot of people that don't run and refuse to do it.

[Pumpy Tudors]

flojo gonna come back to life and put michael phelps and usain bolt to shame. she gonna put on one of them swimsuits, grow her nails to 16 feet long, and run on top of the water so fast, itll shut all yall up

calling it now

[RendeR]

If there were a medal round for unadulterated assinine hyperbole, pumpy would be the Universal record holder and gold medal champion.

[SirFozzie]

Hoo boy. you thought there was bitching about the new gymnastic scoring system? Wait till tonight. It's a fucking doozy.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Hoo boy. you thought there was bitching about the new gymnastic scoring system? Wait till tonight. It's a fucking doozy.

So how does that work, if you had a higher difficulty on a tie?

[Senator]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Liu Xiang achillies prevents him from running the 110m hurdles. Big news for China!

I was actually looking forward to seeing this cat. Damn it.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

So how does that work, if you had a higher difficulty on a tie?

Whoever had the best starting difficulty would win, I believe.

But it went beyond that, to the third tiebreaker

[Jas_lov]

It went to throwing the highest and lowest judge's scores out, averaging the others, averaging deductions, blah blah blah. I read through it and got confused. There's gotta be an easier way.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

It went to throwing the highest and lowest judge's scores out, averaging the others, averaging deductions, blah blah blah. I read through it and got confused. There's gotta be an easier way.

there is:

throw out the score of the athlete who isn't the minimum required age of 16.

[MrDNA]

Seriously, even standing one podium higher she's still only as tall as Natsia. On a side note, her self-satisfied smile makes me cringe.

[larrymcg421]

I still think Nastia still might end up getting the Gold (and another one in the team event) after all is said and done.

[LloydLungs]

Seriously, I'm not one to get worked up over gymnastics, but it's hard not to feel insulted every time that Chinese girl is on the screen. She should really have "China thinks you're stupid" stamped on her forehead.

[Cringer]

Natsia got screwed, that tie breaker system is wacky. They automatically throw out the highest and lowest scores when figure the normal score for someone, and in this tie breaker they then threw out the next lowest as well. It is a dumb ass way to do things IMO.

[Young Drachma]

In debate, they have a tiebreaker to eliminate the highest and lowest scores, then they go with double high low. The tiebreakers in gymnastics just seemed wonky and intended to screw someone over. But then, it's a sport that's just screaming for controversy.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Natsia got screwed, that tie breaker system is wacky. They automatically throw out the highest and lowest scores when figure the normal score for someone, and in this tie breaker they then threw out the next lowest as well. It is a dumb ass way to do things IMO.

Yeah, it seems like the tiebreaker essentially rewarded the zygote for having another low score attributed to her. In judged sports, I think generally high and low scores are tossed within the confines of ONE COMPETITOR'S score, not over the scores of two competing rivals to determine a tiebreak. That's just stupid.

Ah well, this is one of the many reasons people only pay attention to gymnastics once every four years.

[Cringer]

I find it funny how the men's vault was also a tie right after this, and their tie breaker was the guy with the highest score on one jump. Still don't like the tie breaker system, but at least for that event the tie breaker is less dumb.

[lighthousekeeper]

The olympics have been a farce ever since they dropped Tug of War as an official sport.

[Senator]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

The olympics have been a farce ever since they dropped Tug of War as an official sport.

+1

I choose this over 120 hours of beach volleyball.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If you are going to include every swimming event you also need to include long distance running, walking and maybe triathlon and pentathlon/decathlon. When you put all those together I bet the difference in events is pretty slim.

Absurd. The speed/endurance ratio differences are so dramatic between the 100 meters and the marathon that I can't believe you're even serious. Furthermore, you're trying to include events with field components. Swimming is just swimming. Perhaps you should include the diving events along with the swimming ones?

Here's an interesting tidbit:

There are 4 medal events available to track athletes in which the individual athlete will cover 200 meters or less. The 100 meters, 200 meters, 110 meter hurdles, and the 4x100 meter relay.

There are 13 medal events available to swimmers in which the individual athlete will cover 200 meters or less. I'm too lazy to type them all, but there are 13 of them.

Furthermore, do you really not see how the fact that Phelps passed another swimmer who held the men's record for most gold medals in an Olympics and at the same time a swimmer also holds the women's record for most gold medals in an Olympics clearly shows that the playing field for this "record" is tilted in favor of dominant swimmers? It can't get much more obvious.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

The olympics have been a farce ever since they dropped Tug of War as an official sport.

Agree. If it was good enough for Battle of the Network Stars...should be good enough for the Olympics.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Absurd. The speed/endurance ratio differences are so dramatic between the 100 meters and the marathon that I can't believe you're even serious. Furthermore, you're trying to include events with field components. Swimming is just swimming. Perhaps you should include the diving events along with the swimming ones?

Yeah, but the original list included the 400m, 800m, and 1500m swimming events, which was really cheating. People don't swim the 800m and the 200m, for example.

Here's an interesting tidbit:

There are 4 medal events available to track athletes in which the individual athlete will cover 200 meters or less. The 100 meters, 200 meters, 110 meter hurdles, and the 4x100 meter relay.

There are 13 medal events available to swimmers in which the individual athlete will cover 200 meters or less. I'm too lazy to type them all, but there are 13 of them.[/quote]

I would argue that the 100m running event is more analogous to the 50m swimming event. For instance, the 200m swim certainly isn't a sprint like the 200m dash is.

Furthermore, do you really not see how the fact that Phelps passed another swimmer who held the men's record for most gold medals in an Olympics and at the same time a swimmer also holds the women's record for most gold medals in an Olympics clearly shows that the playing field for this "record" is tilted in favor of dominant swimmers? It can't get much more obvious.

Which is why we don't compare Phelps medal haul to a track athlete's medal haul. But what we can do is look at how Phelps has done against every other swimmer in history, and compare that to how a certain track athlete has done against every other track athlete in history.
Phelps now has 14 medals to the 2nd place swimmer's 9.

[Huckleberry]

Maybe you aren't comparing him to others. But have you not noticed the "Greatest Olympian Ever" crap they've been blaring?

And while I agree that 200 meters in swimming is a lot more difficult than 200 meters in running, endurance wise, the point is that there are over 3 times as many events in the same range. The speed/endurance ratio difference in 200 meters compared to 100 meters is roughly the same. Not the same, but roughly.

And if you prefer, while there are 3 ~100 meter events in track, there are 6 swimming events of exactly 100 meters.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

The olympics have been a farce ever since they dropped Tug of War as an official sport.

I like how for two years, only TWO teams competed. And in one of those years, some Mixed Team bizzaro stuff took place. And you have winners like "Milwaukee Athletic Club." And if you click on the Mixed Team mumbo-jumbo, it shows that the U.S. and Cuba won in something as a combined team. Sweet.

[MikeVic]

Can someone tell me what's going on in the men's diving? I was watching this before leaving for work this morning... Interested in how that Canadian guy is doing. He was 2nd when I left.

[Anthony]

why can't they just have one more routine in the event of a tiebreaker? like a sudden death overtime. then they take the avg of your two scores?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Maybe you aren't comparing him to others. But have you not noticed the "Greatest Olympian Ever" crap they've been blaring?

But why isn't he one of the greatest Olympians? In a single Olympics, he's done better than everyone in the history of his event. In multiple Olympics he has absolutely fucking crushed everyone in the history of his event (14 Golds to 9 Golds). All of these people I'm comparing him to had the same advantages with similar swimming distances, but none of them could do it. Only Phelps could.

[MikeVic]

Nevermind, following on Live Result

[FrogMan]

weehee, silver for Despaties!

Great comeback after flopping one in the preliminaries and qualifying 9th.

FM

[MikeVic]

Yay! I think we matched the 2004 total medal count now?

[MikeVic]

You know, if you look at the men/women split per country... France is just crazy. 25 for the men, 3 for the women. Everyone else is pretty close.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

But why isn't he one of the greatest Olympians? In a single Olympics, he's done better than everyone in the history of his event. In multiple Olympics he has absolutely fucking crushed everyone in the history of his event (14 Golds to 9 Golds). All of these people I'm comparing him to had the same advantages with similar swimming distances, but none of them could do it. Only Phelps could.

I said "the 'Greatest Olympian Ever' crap" and you said "one of the greatest Olympians."

Those extra two words make a huge freakin' difference, don't you think?

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

You know, if you look at the men/women split per country... France is just crazy. 25 for the men, 3 for the women. Everyone else is pretty close.

Wow, that's reminiscent of the East German women vs. men splits.

I'm just sayin'.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

I said "the 'Greatest Olympian Ever' crap" and you said "one of the greatest Olympians."

Those extra two words make a huge freakin' difference, don't you think?

sigh...





FM

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Yay! I think we matched the 2004 total medal count now?

Yep, although 1 less gold (replaced by a bronze this year). Impressive rally given where we were at a few days ago. I think they heard us discussing the idea of revoking sex privileges in the village if they didn't perform. It's all about motivation

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

I said "the 'Greatest Olympian Ever' crap" and you said "one of the greatest Olympians."

Those extra two words make a huge freakin' difference, don't you think?

I would say that if someone is clearly "one of the greatest Olympians ever" that I would certainly not consider it crap for someone to call them "the greatest Olympian ever". My point is he certainly belongs in the discussion and seems to be as good a choice as anyone else.