2007-08 NBA Playoffs thread

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by molson

I know you're joking, and this isn't really directed towards you, but I don't get how people always look at FT disparity as some sort of evidence of unfairness. If referees are required to call fouls equally regardless of what's actually going on on the court, why don't we just get all the FTs out of the way before the game starts?

It's not evidence of unfairness. It is evidence that one team is getting called for far more damaging fouls than the other team. The reasons why are to the judgment of the observer, hopefully using other observations.

The driving thing is one good reason for the disparity. That said, the Lakers have to my eyes actually driven more to the basket in this game than in Game One, and the disparity has actually gotten larger.

Also, you would be ignoring the fact that there is a general trend to giving the home team more calls, a fact that has borne itself out throughout this playoffs. To disregard that and assume everything is on the up and up would be silly. It seems pretty clear to the Celtics have benefited here (and the Lakers will likely see similar benefits at home, thus the value of home court advantage).

[Chief Rum]

Oh, and BTW, wow, nice comeback.

[DaddyTorgo]

kudos to the lakers for making it an actual game - celtics really need to close out games better

[SirFozzie]

The Celtics gotta have Killer Instinct in LA, that's two straight series we've almost thrown a big game away

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

yeah...a 29-7 run is not acceptable

I know the Celtics are a good defensive team, but you really should give the Lakers some credit

[st.cronin]

Paul Pierce is on his way to being a Boston-area legend.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by molson

I know you're joking, and this isn't really directed towards you, but I don't get how people always look at FT disparity as some sort of evidence of unfairness. If referees are required to call fouls equally regardless of what's actually going on on the court, why don't we just get all the FTs out of the way before the game starts?

It's not evidence of unfairness, I agree. But just because it isn't, doesn't mean that it was reffed fairly as well either

[Pumpy Tudors]

I don't watch a lot of NBA basketball, but there was one point late in the game where Vujacic was shooting a wide-open 3 right in front of the Boston bench. As soon as Vujacic caught the ball, three Celtics jumped up off the bench and started running toward him, screaming and waving their arms to try to distract him. Is that normal? Seems kinda bush league to me, but I dunno. Whatever the case, I thought it was pretty funny.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I know the Celtics are a good defensive team, but you really should give the Lakers some credit

They got really hot from 3 ball land. No lead is safe if they hit threes like that

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Paul Pierce is on his way to being a Boston-area legend.

Already there. Heck, he would have been there just for surviving multiple stabbings, regardless of what he does on the court.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

or taking a contract out on the officials (been hearing a lot of that from LA fans)

If anyone actually uses that term, I would probably just laugh. Most of their fans have no problem doing it themselves

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I don't watch a lot of NBA basketball, but there was one point late in the game where Vujacic was shooting a wide-open 3 right in front of the Boston bench. As soon as Vujacic caught the ball, three Celtics jumped up off the bench and started running toward him, screaming and waving their arms to try to distract him. Is that normal? Seems kinda bush league to me, but I dunno. Whatever the case, I thought it was pretty funny.

Heh, really? I missed that. Yeah, that's bush league. Don't think it's normal, but maybe every team does it, and I just never noticed.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I don't watch a lot of NBA basketball, but there was one point late in the game where Vujacic was shooting a wide-open 3 right in front of the Boston bench. As soon as Vujacic caught the ball, three Celtics jumped up off the bench and started running toward him, screaming and waving their arms to try to distract him. Is that normal? Seems kinda bush league to me, but I dunno. Whatever the case, I thought it was pretty funny.

I'd say that's somewhat commonplace. You should watch Ben Howland on UCLA's sideline. He's notorius for waving his hands around when someone is on that side of the court

[Noop]

Very one sided game in my opinion. If the Lakers can even the series up at 2-2 I can see them winning this series in 7.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I don't watch a lot of NBA basketball, but there was one point late in the game where Vujacic was shooting a wide-open 3 right in front of the Boston bench. As soon as Vujacic caught the ball, three Celtics jumped up off the bench and started running toward him, screaming and waving their arms to try to distract him. Is that normal? Seems kinda bush league to me, but I dunno. Whatever the case, I thought it was pretty funny.

I saw that too, but I thought they were yelling at the ref for some call they thought was missed. I could be wrong, and it's already deleted from my TIVO.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Most of their fans have no problem doing it themselves

Well, depends which fans you're talking about. The ones in Jack's neighborhood take out contracts. The ones in Pedro and Long Beach do it themselves.

The ones in the OC just cry themselves to sleep.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Heh, really? I missed that. Yeah, that's bush league. Don't think it's normal, but maybe every team does it, and I just never noticed.

Yeah, it was the 2-on-1 where Radmanovic stole the ball and passed crosscourt to Vujacic for the 3. I guess I'm wondering if every team does that, or if maybe there are just a few guys in the league who'd pull that stunt.

[SirFozzie]

I feel good, that only two teams have won all three games at home since the finals went 2-3-2, and the Lakers have to get all three.. do you think they can come to Boston and win both?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by molson

I saw that too, but I thought they were yelling at the ref for some call they thought was missed. I could be wrong, and it's already deleted from my TIVO.

No, they didn't jump up until Vujacic caught the ball and was clearly about to start his shooting motion.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I feel good, that only two teams have won all three games at home since the finals went 2-3-2, and the Lakers have to get all three.. do you think they can come to Boston and win both?

If they are up 3-2, yes. If they are down 3-2, no

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Niiiiiice travel.

I assume this is about the Vlady fastbreak dunk? I see a lot of travels in the NBA go uncalled (and probably saw about 5 off the top off my head tonight), but that was perhaps the most obvious travel I've ever seen go unwhistled. He shuffled his feet after picking up the ball, and then took 3 steps after that just in case anyone missed it the first time.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

If they are up 3-2, yes. If they are down 3-2, no

It'd be a pretty neat trick if the Lakers won two games in Boston if they go up 3-2.

[Jas_lov]

Lakers fans shouldn't be complaining about the refs. They got destroyed by Boston for 3 quarters and deserved to lose. The Lakers made a nice run in the end, but ultimately the Celtics have them in a position where they have to sweep all 3 games at home or they're finished.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I assume this is about the Vlady fastbreak dunk? I see a lot of travels in the NBA go uncalled (and probably saw about 5 off the top off my head tonight), but that was perhaps the most obvious travel I've ever seen go unwhistled. He shuffled his feet after picking up the ball, and then took 3 steps after that just in case anyone missed it the first time.

Wait, when did the NBA start calling traveling again, especially on a breakaway dunk?

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Lakers fans shouldn't be complaining about the refs. They got destroyed by Boston for 3 quarters and deserved to lose.

There are four quarters in game if anything the Lakers should take this game as a positive.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I assume this is about the Vlady fastbreak dunk? I see a lot of travels in the NBA go uncalled (and probably saw about 5 off the top off my head tonight), but that was perhaps the most obvious travel I've ever seen go unwhistled. He shuffled his feet after picking up the ball, and then took 3 steps after that just in case anyone missed it the first time.

It was a makeup call for the play right before where Kobe was grabbed and twisted. I'm at peace with it

[molson]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Wait, when did the NBA start calling traveling again, especially on a breakaway dunk?

Ya, I think it's like a language at this point - after some time, it changes, no matter what the dictionary/rules say. Traveling hasn't been called by the rules as long as I've been watching the NBA (since around 1986). At some point, people will finally give up and accept it.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

It'd be a pretty neat trick if the Lakers won two games in Boston if they go up 3-2.

You know what I mean

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Lakers fans shouldn't be complaining about the refs. They got destroyed by Boston for 3 quarters and deserved to lose. The Lakers made a nice run in the end, but ultimately the Celtics have them in a position where they have to sweep all 3 games at home or they're finished.

Newsflash, a game is four quarters long. You play all four before the game is in the books. And if that game is called straight, maybe the Lakers go back with a split right now. Lakers' fans have every right to complain.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by molson

Ya, I think it's like a language at this point - after some time, it changes, no matter what the dictionary/rules say. Traveling hasn't been called by the rules as long as I've been watching the NBA (since around 1986).

The "Arizona Hop" rule

[st.cronin]

Traveling never gets called when a player is that far ahead of the defense.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by molson

Ya, I think it's like a language at this point - after some time, it changes, no matter what the dictionary/rules say. Traveling hasn't been called by the rules as long as I've been watching the NBA (since around 1986). At some point, people will finally give up and accept it.

That's been my experience with it, too, as I watched the NBA a lot from the early '80s up until John Stockton retired. Yeah, Radmanovic did travel, but nobody's calling that. Hell, once he got clear of the defense, he could've gone the whole way without dribbling and they wouldn't have called it.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Newsflash, a game is four quarters long. You play all four before the game is in the books. And if that game is called straight, maybe the Lakers go back with a split right now. Lakers' fans have every right to complain.

Ummm no they don't. That game was called just fine.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

Ummm no they don't. That game was called just fine.

I have no horse in this race but I think the Celtics got the best of that deal.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Noop

I have no horse in this race but I think the Celtics got the best of that deal.

Easily. No one is blaming the refs for the loss, that is on the Lakers still. But the Lakers weren't the home team and didn't get the benefit of the calls. It's the unfortunate break

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

Ummm no they don't. That game was called just fine.

Yeah, and W is a good president!

[molson]

Any NBA game = losing team's fans (and 50% of neutral fans) think they were screwed by refs

[larrymcg421]

The Celtics play a weak schedule/can't win against the West/can't beat a good team in the playoffs/can't win on the road/get the benefit of referee calls.

You guys are hilarious!

[larrymcg421]

dola

I'd also add that if it's true that home teams get the benefit of calls, then perhaps the Lakers should have won more games in the regular season.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

The Celtics play a weak schedule/can't win against the West/can't beat a good team in the playoffs/can't win on the road/get the benefit of referee calls.

You guys are hilarious!

It's fine to say that now, but there was good evidence for all of those except the second one (they always had a good record against the West). Can't really say people saying that at the time could have been said to be wrong at that point. It's only in hindsight that you can dismiss #3 and #4. And the Celtics did play a weak schedule (that is still true), and they clearly benefited from referee calls tonight. Really, it's unbelievable that that is even in dispute when the FT discrepancy was almost four to one.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

The Celtics play a weak schedule/can't win against the West/can't beat a good team in the playoffs/can't win on the road/get the benefit of referee calls.

You guys are hilarious!

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

dola

I'd also add that if it's true that home teams get the benefit of calls, then perhaps the Lakers should have won more games in the regular season.

Both your comments make little sense.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It's fine to say that now, but there was good evidence for all of those except the second one (they always had a good record against the West). Can't really say people saying that at the time could have been said to be wrong at that point. It's only in hindsight that you can dismiss #3 and #4. And the Celtics did play a weak schedule (that is still true), and they clearly benefited from referee calls tonight. Really, it's unbelievable that that is even in dispute when the FT discrepancy was almost four to one.

Chief, you know that physical teams rarely foul.

[Kodos]

As much as I hate to see a Boston team be successful --- GO FOR THE SWEEP!!

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

they clearly benefited from referee calls tonight. Really, it's unbelievable that that is even in dispute when the FT discrepancy was almost four to one.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It's fine to say that now, but there was good evidence for all of those except the second one (they always had a good record against the West). Can't really say people saying that at the time could have been said to be wrong at that point. It's only in hindsight that you can dismiss #3 and #4. And the Celtics did play a weak schedule (that is still true), and they clearly benefited from referee calls tonight. Really, it's unbelievable that that is even in dispute when the FT discrepancy was almost four to one.

maybe if the lakers drove to the rim instead of settling for jumpers they'd get more FT's

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

maybe if the lakers drove to the rim instead of settling for jumpers they'd get more FT's

Playing the maybe if/what if game will get us no where. Maybe if the refs called the game a bit more balanced, we are tied 1-1

[st.cronin]

KOBE CAN'T WIN WITHOUT SHAQ

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

KOBE CAN'T WIN WITHOUT SHAQ

JORDAN CAN"T WIN WITHOUT PIPPEN

[DaddyTorgo]

so when the C's lose a game in LA (and I have no doubt they will lose at least one) you Lakers fans are going to be okay with us Celtics fans bitching about all the calls the Lakers got, right?

you're not all going to be a bunch of hypocrites, right?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It's fine to say that now, but there was good evidence for all of those except the second one (they always had a good record against the West). Can't really say people saying that at the time could have been said to be wrong at that point. It's only in hindsight that you can dismiss #3 and #4. And the Celtics did play a weak schedule (that is still true), and they clearly benefited from referee calls tonight. Really, it's unbelievable that that is even in dispute when the FT discrepancy was almost four to one.

Whether or not they played a weak schedule is irrelevant. The criticism was that they only had a good record because of that weak schedule, which is a stupid criticism since they played very well when they did face tough teams.

Free throw disparity is a pretty dumb way to criticize refereeing. Do you think it is impossible for a team to commit 30 fouls and the other team to commit only 6? I don't think it is.

Let me ask you, what is a reasonable disparity? If the Lakers got 10 more calls, so it was 30-16? Then maybe the Celtics don't ease up and still win. Or would it have to be 30-30 for the game to be fair?