Obama versus McCain (versus the rest)

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

Pajamas Media » Obama Supporter Assaults Female McCain Volunteer in New York

Looks like a middle aged female McCain supporter was attacked by an Obama supporter. Too bad it happened in New York City, far away from the networks and major media outlets that could report on such a story.

There are nutjobs on both sides... in fact, isn't that part of the problem these days? Too many nutjobs in general?

Yeah, we've some some crazies too, no shocker there.

I love that website by the way, it's very entertaining. Some of the people commenting on articles make Sean Hannity look like a Daily Kos poster. I'll definitely bookmark that one for Election Night and the aftermath.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I actually go one step further in saying the better use should not go to political campaigning but to the many needs in this country and world.

I buy that but until someone is elected im not sure either campaign can see beyond that.

[Young Drachma]

The stakes are too high for people to vote for McCain simply because of Obama fatigue. These guys have been hitting it out of the park for months now more often than not, I think the ad is high risk, high reward but...surely they need to have someone planned to put a coda on this presidential race.

[Young Drachma]

[Flasch186]

But Obama doesnt need high risk/reward right now. Steady and slow wouls suffice if the polls are true.

[Young Drachma]

Polls are not reflective of the generational shift and so, I'm inclined not to believe them. Especially not this year.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Polls are not reflective of the generational shift and so, I'm inclined not to believe them. Especially not this year.

I'm in that camp too. I keep thinking the election will be closer than people think, but some of the things i hear about the groundswell of Obama support with the young voters make me think that there will be a lot of "we didn't expect that" from the experts after it's over.

[Buccaneer]

Should they only poll those of a particular generation or should they stick with a representative sample of all likely voters? Besides, there was one poll that showed McCain doing well with the 18-24 group.

[Schmidty]

A ton of yard signs, window signs and bumper stickers endorsing McCain have been spray-painted, ripped apart, and defaced in other ways around here. Vehicles have been dented and painted too. That just goes to show you how mature and open-minded liberals around here are.

I'm not voting for either candidate, I'm voting for crazy-ass Ron Paul, but I hope Obama fucking loses. He, and his supporters are beyond obnoxious. It's like a communist revolution around (and I assume other places as well).

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

A ton of yard signs, window signs and bumper stickers endorsing McCain have been spray-painted, ripped apart, and defaced in other ways around here. Vehicles have been dented and painted too. That just goes to show you how mature and open-minded liberals around here are.

I'm not voting for either candidate, I'm voting for crazy-ass Ron Paul, but I hope Obama fucking loses. He, and his supporters are beyond obnoxious. It's like a communist revolution around (and I assume other places as well).

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

How about a bit of racism? I had the distinct displeasure yesterday of witnessing a bit of the right-wing anger. A man's truck parked in his driveway, vandalized with the N-word and "NObama" all over it. *sigh*

A bit of vandalizing idiots on both sides.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Just watched the episode. Just classic.

[Big Fo]

Following up from a post a few pages back, Democratic House nominee El Tinklenberg has now raised $450,000 in 24 hours since incumbent Michelle Bachmann's McCarthyist rant on Hardball, exceeding what he had raised in the past three months and making up nearly a third of his total fund-raising to date.

He's down a few points in the polls, I'd love seeing that woman voted out of office.

St. Cloud Times

[molson]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

A bit of vandalizing idiots on both sides.

True, which makes it so irritating when either side tries to paint the opposition with the brush of the extreme. We see more liberals doing that in this thread, just because there's more liberals here, I guess.

[ISiddiqui]

I really don't understand why Powell endorsing Obama was supposed to be a big deal. He's been supposed to have done it for months.

The Chicago Tribune's endorsement of Obama, OTOH, is far more significant.

[Buccaneer]

If the Tribune hadn't, they may have been faced with even more declining subscriptions and revenues.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I really don't understand why Powell endorsing Obama was supposed to be a big deal. He's been supposed to have done it for months.

The Chicago Tribune's endorsement of Obama, OTOH, is far more significant.

The Chicago Tribune's endorsement is significant insofar as it is the first time they've endorsed a Dem (they even endorsed Ike against Adlai). However, it is unlikely that it will translate to many votes. Not many people will know this fact. The few that pass by an article mentioning this will see "Chicago" and assume it was a given.

The Powell endorsement may have been rumored for a while, but rumors certainly don't translate to votes as much as an official endorsement that will be talked about in the press all week long. Given that Virginia and Florida are two big swing states, if this endorsement dips into McCain's advantage among the military voters just a little bit, it could be significant.

[JPhillips]

It's not so much Powell's endorsement as the way he tore down the McCain campaign and the current Republican establishment. The question is whether Powell's critique of what McCain has become will resonate with swing voters.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

The Chicago Tribune's endorsement is significant insofar as it is the first time they've endorsed a Dem (they even endorsed Ike against Adlai). However, it is unlikely that it will translate to many votes. Not many people will know this fact. The few that pass by an article mentioning this will see "Chicago" and assume it was a given.

The Powell endorsement may have been rumored for a while, but rumors certainly don't translate to votes as much as an official endorsement that will be talked about in the press all week long. Given that Virginia and Florida are two big swing states, if this endorsement dips into McCain's advantage among the military voters just a little bit, it could be significant.

bullseye

[DaddyTorgo]

just watched MTP...Powell absolutely eviscerated the Republican party -- pretty shocking for someone who was widely talked about as a potential candidate 2 elections ago, and someone who was a key member of the administration as recently as 3 years ago

[rowech]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

just watched MTP...Powell absolutely eviscerated the Republican party -- pretty shocking for someone who was widely talked about as a potential candidate 2 elections ago, and someone who was a key member of the administration as recently as 3 years ago

As I've said elsewhere in this thread...the Republican party, simply put, isn't the Republican party as it should be.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

someone who was widely talked about as a potential candidate 2 elections ago

Which was something that found bewildering at the time and why this endorsement really doesn't come as any particular surprise.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Which was something that found bewildering at the time and why this endorsement really doesn't come as any particular surprise.

to you. but i think you are vastly more intelligent and well-informed than the people whose eyebrows this endorsement might raise.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

to you. but i think you are vastly more intelligent and well-informed than the people whose eyebrows this endorsement might raise.

Heh, while that sounds nice & I appreciate it and all, I'm not sure how much intelligence would be needed to anticipate this move. A little common sense maybe but that's about it I think.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Heh, while that sounds nice & I appreciate it and all, I'm not sure how much intelligence would be needed to anticipate this move. A little common sense maybe but that's about it I think.

believe me, i don't think the endorsement itself is worth much, but if the whole interview gets playing time on the news, or in obama-commercials, i think there are some pretty good soundbites

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

believe me, i don't think the endorsement itself is worth much, but if the whole interview gets playing time on the news, or in obama-commercials, i think there are some pretty good soundbites

You could be right but at this point it seems to be little more than a small dab of icing on a fairly large cake.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

just watched MTP...Powell absolutely eviscerated the Republican party -- pretty shocking for someone who was widely talked about as a potential candidate 2 elections ago, and someone who was a key member of the administration as recently as 3 years ago

eh, just a disgruntled ex-employee like all the rest.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Heh, while that sounds nice & I appreciate it and all, I'm not sure how much intelligence would be needed to anticipate this move. A little common sense maybe but that's about it I think.

say this to yourself and give the Jon response please lest we all be disappointed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

say this to yourself and give the Jon response please lest we all be disappointed.

Huh?

[Flasch186]

you make a comment about people having 'common sense' and I expected if you'd read that typed out from me you wouldve had some witty sharp tongued comment. I fed it back to you on a platter and want to see you hit it out of the park...I mean it is your sweet spot

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

you make a comment about people having 'common sense' and I expected if you'd read that typed out from me you wouldve had some witty sharp tongued comment. I fed it back to you on a platter and want to see you hit it out of the park...I mean it is your sweet spot

Flasch, you're babbling. Let me see if I can help though, what the hell, the bandwidth cost is minimal.

Anybody paying the slightest bit of attention should have seen this coming, just by applying a little common sense; i.e. in this case take the evidence at hand and see how it might be applied to a given question.

Powell was always a RINO at most (would have been a good philosophical running mate for McCain ironically enough). His endorsement of Obama was predictable enough and by the time we reached this stage the only suspense was whether or not he wanted to have a few more minutes of attention. Obviously he did so he publicly jumped on the bandwagon as it passed by (or before it passed him by).

I don't particularly go for the "disgruntled ex-employee" theory though. He never should have been (as SOS) an employee in the first place - he knew that and most people on the inside seem to have known that (albeit later than they should have figured it out). I don't think he's any less "gruntled" today than he was yesterday, or now versus a year ago, or since he was fired versus before he was fired. In other words, I don't think this has anything to do with his ex-employee status (as disgruntled ex-employee would imply), he was never gruntled in the first place.

[Buccaneer]

When Powell was mentioned was a presidential candidate a few years ago, there were much discussions as to which party. Don't you guys remember that at all?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

When Powell was mentioned was a presidential candidate a few years ago, there were much discussions as to which party. Don't you guys remember that at all?

I do. He picked Republican as his party at that time, but he was far from a classic Republican. This really isn't that big a shock.

[Arles]

Jan 7, 2008:

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell praised Barack Obama on the eve of the New Hampshire primary, crediting the Illinois Senator for breaking barriers while running as "an American man" who can represent the entire nation. In an interview with PBS host Tavis Smiley, Powell said he was "taking joy" in Obama's rise and he said citizens across the country can "enjoy this moment

403 Forbidden

June, 2008:

VANCOUVER -- Colin Powell, the former Republican secretary of state, says he is not ruling out a vote for Barack Obama, the presumed Democratic nominee for president.While Mr. Powell served in the administrations of two Republican presidents, he suggested yesterday his support for presumed Republican nominee John McCain is not a forgone conclusion.

globeandmail.com: National

This about as shocking as Joe Liebermann announcing he's voting for McCain. The only thing real surprising is how Powell (who's been "anti-political" for 8 years) is allowing himself to be used as a political pawn this late in the game. Still, it's his right - you just have to wonder if he decided to vote for Obama before the summer but was convinced to hold his endorsement until the final weeks as an "ace in the hole". Given his comments on the republican party, I think this is probably the case. And while some of his comments have merit, the timing causes me to lose some respect in Powell.

[Swaggs]

I think the significance of Powell's endorsement is that it will probably drive the news cycle for the next 2-3 days (giving McCain that much less time to earn any gamechanging/substantial press). It will probably also give some folks that were up in the air feel like it is okay to trust Obama, since Powell is pretty well-respected.

[SirFozzie]

Next time some one brings up ACORN to me, this is what I'll respond with

GOP voter registration fraud case leads to arrest - Los Angeles Times

SACRAMENTO -- The owner of a firm that the California Republican Party hired to register tens of thousands of voters this year was arrested in Ontario late last night on suspicion of voter registration fraud.

State and local investigators allege that Mark Jacoby fraudulently registered himself to vote at a childhood California address where he no longer lives so he would appear to meet the legal requirement that signature gatherers be eligible to vote in California.

Jacoby's arrest by state investigators and the Ontario Police Department comes after dozens of voters said they were duped into registering as Republicans by his firm, Young Political Majors, or YPM. The voters said YPM tricked them by saying they were signing a petition to toughen penalties against child molesters. The firm was paid $7 to $12 for every Californian it registered as a member of the GOP.

Several agencies had launched investigations into Jacoby's activities, including the Los Angeles County district attorney's office, which issued the warrant for his arrest earlier this month on felony charges of voter registration fraud and perjury.

Efforts to reach Jacoby were unsuccessful.

[Buccaneer]

Prediction: The biggest issue on election day will not be voter fraud but polls needing to close and people not getting to vote for various reasons (long lines, running out of supplies, malfunctions, inadequate id, etc.).

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think the significance of Powell's endorsement is that it will probably drive the news cycle for the next 2-3 days (giving McCain that much less time to earn any gamechanging/substantial press). It will probably also give some folks that were up in the air feel like it is okay to trust Obama, since Powell is pretty well-respected.

Bingo.

And if anyone thinks this wasn't timed, have a look at where Obama was today right near Fort Braggs.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I would think all that money being raised by the political parties could go to better use instead of paying for commercials and buy time that everyone is sick of (not to mention the junk mail), as well as to bribe the population to do their duty. But money talks and all is fair in the war for political supremacy.

Dumb question- would you be in favor of publicly funded campaigns?

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Prediction: The biggest issue on election day will not be voter fraud but polls needing to close and people not getting to vote for various reasons (long lines, running out of supplies, malfunctions, inadequate id, etc.).

I think there will be a fraud angle to this, still. Again, there are voting machine issues as well as your usual smattering of voter disenfranchisement.

SI

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Dumb question- would you be in favor of publicly funded campaigns?

SI

No, not in favor of government subsidization, especially for a fundamental right as free speech. In some states, public funding laws only enforces a two-party system and make it hard for minority or independent parties to gain a foothold. My comment was based on the candidates and their organizations/parties begging for money that, in part, goes for TV commercials (ugh) and junk mail. And to the voters encouraging this process, which just feeds the downward spiral. It wasn't that long ago in which candidates did not start campaigning until the beginning of the election year. Now it's a continuous cycle (for both president and Congress) that the next election/re-election campaign starts when the current one is over. Such a waste of time and money that goes towards selfishness and greed.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Given that Virginia and Florida are two big swing states, if this endorsement dips into McCain's advantage among the military voters just a little bit, it could be significant.

Yeeeah... I think this late in the game, it'll really have little to no effect on election day.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Arles

This about as shocking as Joe Liebermann announcing he's voting for McCain.
The only thing real surprising is how Powell (who's been "anti-political" for years) is allowing himself to be used as a political pawn this late in the game. Still, it's his right - you just have to wonder if he decided to vote for Obama before the summer but was convinced to hold his endorsement until the final weeks as an "ace in the hole". Given his comments on the republican party, I think this is probably the case. And while some of his comments have merit, the timing causes me to lose some respect in Powell.

Arles, this doesn't really make sense, and is a little insulting to Powell. I mean, if he was just being used as an "ace in the hole", wouldn't he have announced this endorsement after the GOP convention when everyone was ethusiastic about Palin and you guys were having alot of fun with how bad
the Obama campaign was being run? That certainly would've blunted some of Palin's momentum and stopped Obama's slide in the polls.

Maybe he did decide a while ago, but was uncertain if he wanted to make it public because he really respected McCain. Maybe he wanted to wait and make sure he could speak eloquently on the matter so people wouldn't think he was doing it just because of race. Or maybe he really did decide recently. Some of his reasons included stuff that happened recently. Sure, he could be lying through his teeth, but I'd think if anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to honesty and integrity, it is Colin Powell.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yeeeah... I think this late in the game, it'll really have little to no effect on election day.

Polls still show the one weakness Obama has among voters (and the only thing McCain leads him on) is foreign policy. I don't see how you could say that one of the most famous military leaders in recent American history endorsing a candidate like that wouldn't have an effect on election day. That truly baffles me. But I've been wrong before.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Polls still show the one weakness Obama has among voters (and the only thing McCain leads him on) is foreign policy. I don't see how you could say that one of the most famous military leaders in recent American history endorsing a candidate like that wouldn't have an effect on election day. That truly baffles me. But I've been wrong before.

You don't think that two weeks before election day the vast majority of military people have made up their minds on this issue? They aren't going to magically change as a result of Powell endorsing Obama. Who exactly is it swaying this late in the game? I doubt the few undecideds were going to be swayed by an endorsement.

Hell, I don't think people are going to believe Obama is better on foreign policy just because Powell says so!

Something like the Tribune has a much greater effect because its far more deeply Republican than Powell was thought to be. Now, one could say that it is because they know Obama is going to win and win big, but that hasn't swayed them before.

[larrymcg421]

And here it comes...

I figured this was gonna happen. The race to discredit Colin Powell has started, and the first to line up is Rush Limbaugh

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonath...d.html?showall

Rush Limbaugh said Colin Powell's decision to get behind Barack Obama appeared to be very much tied to Obama's status as the first African-American with a chance to become president.

"Secretary Powell says his endorsement is not about race," Limbaugh wrote in an e-mail. "OK, fine. I am now researching his past endorsements to see if I can find all the inexperienced, very liberal, white candidates he has endorsed. I'll let you know what I come up with."

As for Powell's statement of concern this morning about the sort of Supreme Court justices a President McCain might appoint, Limbaugh wrote: "I was also unaware of his dislike for John Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Anthony Kennedy and Antonin Scalia. I guess he also regrets Reagan and Bush making him a four-star [general] and secretary of state and appointing his son to head the FCC. Yes, let's hear it for transformational figures."

A couple things I want to note here. Limbaugh is clearly an idiot. Powell is pro-choice. That is well known. Therefore, I don't see why it is surprising that he would not want to see conservative justices appointed.

What does the Reagan stuff have to do with anything? Is Rush suggesting you can't be an admirer of Reagan and dislike the current direction of the GOP? There are several conservative writers that have recently suggested otherwise.

Also, I certainly don't think McCain agrees with this, and he gave what I thought was a dignified response to the announcement. But I fear that Rush's statement here isn't going to be the last we hear of this from the far right wing.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You don't think that two weeks before election day the vast majority of military people have made up their minds on this issue? They aren't going to magically change as a result of Powell endorsing Obama. Who exactly is it swaying this late in the game? I doubt the few undecideds were going to be swayed by an endorsement.

Hell, I don't think people are going to believe Obama is better on foreign policy just because Powell says so!

Something like the Tribune has a much greater effect because its far more deeply Republican than Powell was thought to be. Now, one could say that it is because they know Obama is going to win and win big, but that hasn't swayed them before.

The Tribune endorsement is simply about economics. About 80% of their readers are for Obama (greater Chicago area) and there would be a pretty big outcry if they endorsed McCain. I have a ton of family in the Chicago area and all are for Obama and very edgy about the election right now. There's a ton invested in him in the Chicago area and anything even remotely critical about him is getting lambasted. If Obama was from Pennsylvania instead of Illinois, I doubt the Trib would have endorsed him.

[Neon_Chaos]

Just an foreigner's view of the race...

Can anyone, in good conscience, vote for McCain and not fear the fact that there is a high likelihood that Sarah Palin could be the next President of the United States?

It's funny how McCain has been attacking Obama's inexperience in foreign affairs and military matters when he chose Palin as his VP.

I can't help but feel that the world will be a better place with Obama and the democrats in power.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Arles

The Tribune endorsement is simply about economics. About 80% of their readers are for Obama (greater Chicago area) and there would be a pretty big outcry if they endorsed McCain. I have a ton of family in the Chicago area and all are for Obama and very edgy about the election right now. There's a ton invested in him in the Chicago area and anything even remotely critical about him is getting lambasted. If Obama was from Pennsylvania instead of Illinois, I doubt the Trib would have endorsed him.

Frankly, I think that's BS. It may fly if the paper had a different history, but it has NEVER endorsed Democrat for President prior to this year. Even Adlai Stevenson, who was a native of Illinois, didn't get the nod. The Trib is well known to be a Republican paper, so if they endorsed McCain, no one would even bat an eye.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Just as an aside to my rants on polling weights, I noticed that Zogby polling uses voter weighting in their polls that mirrors party turnout from the previous elections. As of the latest polls, Zogby shows roughly a 3 point Obama lead while the rest of the polls show a 6-8 point lead. Zogby should show a pretty good indicator of whether Democratic turnout increases in this election and what the results will be if they don't turn out in record numbers as Democratic pundits will have you believe.

I do think there are a couple of developments over the weekend that could have some effect on the election from a race standpoint. First, there's a column out of Illinois reporting that Obama is demanding that an African-American be his replacement if he wins.

Who would replace Obama's Senate seat? :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Michael Sneed

Second, Obama was endorsed by Powell. On its face, it's certainly not a surprise as he's always been considered to be similary to Liberman, except in reverse. With that said, some of his comments and his endorsement could lead to a backlash against Obama. There could be a perceived notion that African-Americans are trying to pull the political rug out from under the established powers in the U.S. There are still a lot of people that will vote out of ignorance on both sides of the issue. Obama needs to tread as lightly as he can to avoid a race backlash. The move to make sure an African-American takes his seat would not be a good first step.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Just an foreigner's view of the race...

Can anyone, in good conscience, vote for McCain and not fear the fact that there is a high likelihood that Sarah Palin could be the next President of the United States?

It's funny how McCain has been attacking Obama's inexperience in foreign affairs and military matters when he chose Palin as his VP.

I can't help but feel that the world will be a better place with Obama and the democrats in power.

I think there are two camps on that issue and, frankly, that's why she was brought in.

The first is those more towards the center who like McCain and what a lot of us refer to as "the old John McCain"- all the cliches about him being a maverick, reaching across party lines, and doing things for the good of the country. They are scared to death of a Palin presidency, along the lines of someone asking Joe Lieberman about her choice as VP and him saying something to the tone of "John just better not die".

Then there are those within the more conservative branches of the GOP who would almost welcome Palin. They see McCain as a RINO (Republican in Name Only) who really doesn't represent their views but he's better than the Democrat alternative. Palin is a lot like a female version of Dubya- except instead of faslely claiming to be a uniter across party lines, she claims to be a maverick. Instead, both are just intellectually uncurious power hungry and power expanding idealogues from off the deep end of their party. Those are your core voters in the GOP who would prefer that approach.

As to the last part about the world being a better place with the Dems in power. Well, that's going to illicit all sorts of responses

SI