Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by molson

It makes too much sense for college football and basketball to become separate semi-pro leagues, and then for all other sports to engage in regional collegiate athletics.

+2

[Wolfpack]

It's just about a done deal that the Big East will be dead as a football league as soon as this summer. The football playing members will survive, but the name will be different:
Catholic 7 schools to keep 'Big East' name for new league next season, according to sources - ESPN

The "new" Big East is also picking up Xavier and Butler from the A-10 and probably Creighton from the MVC for a 10-team league starting this summer. Longer range intention is apparently plucking out Dayton and St. Louis to make 12 by 2014-15.

The other domino that may fall is the ACC getting Notre Dame a year ahead of schedule since ND had only committed to the Big East on the assumption that the Catholic 7 were still on board next year. If there's any problems in coming to the ACC in 2013, ND has said they may seek a one-year membership with the new Big East before moving to the ACC the following year. If I'm the ACC, I damn well make sure there's no problems. Last thing you need is ND getting a one-year tryout with the new league, finding out they like it, and then not having to worry about the other schools pressuring them to commit their football program anymore. Not sure if there's anything in the ACC bylaws that stipulate a buyout if reneging on joining like what happened with TCU and the Big East, but ND's probably got better lawyers than Maryland does to get out of anything serious.

Louisville and Rutgers are committed for one more year to the ex-Big East regardless as it is too late to make any changes to football schedules (not to mention if Louisville came before Maryland left, it'd be an unwieldy 15-team ACC).

[Buccaneer]

The one thing I don't remember was why and how WVU was able to leave immediately while everyone else had/has to wait, even ND. What was the deal with WVU?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

The one thing I don't remember was why and how WVU was able to leave immediately while everyone else had/has to wait, even ND. What was the deal with WVU?

WVU paid $20m to get out early after dueling lawsuits.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

It's just about a done deal that the Big East will be dead as a football league as soon as this summer. The football playing members will survive, but the name will be different:
Catholic 7 schools to keep 'Big East' name for new league next season, according to sources - ESPN

The "new" Big East is also picking up Xavier and Butler from the A-10 and probably Creighton from the MVC for a 10-team league starting this summer. Longer range intention is apparently plucking out Dayton and St. Louis to make 12 by 2014-15.

The other domino that may fall is the ACC getting Notre Dame a year ahead of schedule since ND had only committed to the Big East on the assumption that the Catholic 7 were still on board next year. If there's any problems in coming to the ACC in 2013, ND has said they may seek a one-year membership with the new Big East before moving to the ACC the following year. If I'm the ACC, I damn well make sure there's no problems. Last thing you need is ND getting a one-year tryout with the new league, finding out they like it, and then not having to worry about the other schools pressuring them to commit their football program anymore. Not sure if there's anything in the ACC bylaws that stipulate a buyout if reneging on joining like what happened with TCU and the Big East, but ND's probably got better lawyers than Maryland does to get out of anything serious.

Louisville and Rutgers are committed for one more year to the ex-Big East regardless as it is too late to make any changes to football schedules (not to mention if Louisville came before Maryland left, it'd be an unwieldy 15-team ACC).

Smart brand decision for the football schools. Big East is so sullied at this point that a bunch of imposters hanging with that name would've continued to be a joke. Rebrand and reestablish yourself with a new name.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Longer range intention is apparently plucking out Dayton and St. Louis to make 12 by 2014-15.

Yeah, we'll see. We've been fucked before (in the aftermath of the Great Midwest Conf.).

[finketr]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Yeah, we'll see. We've been fucked before (in the aftermath of the Great Midwest Conf.).

I still remember when Dayton, Notre Dame, DePaul, and Xavier (and possibly Marquette) used to play home&home every year when they were all independents.

Grew up in Dayton. Was planning to go to XU until tuition shot up 25% between 1989 and 1990 and made that undoable...well, that and a full scholarship offer to another school.\

[Butter]

It was Marquette. We were terrible in the last half of the 80's and early 90's, except for a single shining run in '89-'90. I think we went something like 4-26 one year, which didn't help the cause.

But even as good as UD's fan support is, it was always going to be a struggle to get in the new Big East because we are in something like the #65 media market, and are a small fish in the big pond of Ohio basketball, perenially behind Ohio State, Xavier, and Cincinnati (not to mention others most years)... and X and UC practically overlap with our media market.

I've already begun considering who the A10 would get as replacements for the very good chance that we are stuck there instead.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

It was Marquette. We were terrible in the last half of the 80's and early 90's, except for a single shining run in '89-'90. I think we went something like 4-26 one year, which didn't help the cause.

But even as good as UD's fan support is, it was always going to be a struggle to get in the new Big East because we are in something like the #65 media market, and are a small fish in the big pond of Ohio basketball, perenially behind Ohio State, Xavier, and Cincinnati (not to mention others most years)... and X and UC practically overlap with our media market.

I've already begun considering who the A10 would get as replacements for the very good chance that we are stuck there instead.

1. St. Louis (Big East allegedly in 2014-15)
2. VCU
3. La Salle
4. Butler (Big East allegedly in 2013-14)
5. Xavier (Big East allegedly in 2013-14)
6. Temple (Former Big East in 2013-14)
7. UMass
8. Richmond
9. George Washington
10. Saint Joseph's
11. St. Bonaventure
12. Charlotte (Conference-USA is 2013-14)
13. Dayton (Big East allegedly in 2014-15)
14. URI
15. Fordham
16. Duquesne

I guess the question would be whether the A10 tried to retain a midwestern footprint (Ohio U, Detroit?), if they'd just raid the CAA (George Mason, Northeastern?) or try to extend further South (Georgia State, Florida Gulf Coast, Jacksonville?)

[Young Drachma]

Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick open to joining Catholic 7 league for one season - ESPN

Notre Dame basically sends sweet songs to the C7 to tell them they'd hang with them for a year en route to the ACC.

[Logan]

AP Source: Big East football keeps $100m in split - Yahoo! Sports

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Logan

AP Source: Big East football keeps $100m in split - Yahoo! Sports

So the Big East is sitting on a pot of money. Is there anything smart they can do with it at this point that could strengthen the conference?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

So the Big East is sitting on a pot of money. Is there anything smart they can do with it at this point that could strengthen the conference?

Bet it on black?

[Young Drachma]

What to name non-departing Big East schools? Revive 'Metro Conference'

One suggestion for the name of the Big East football exiles - reviving the Metro Conference name.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

So the Big East is sitting on a pot of money. Is there anything smart they can do with it at this point that could strengthen the conference?

They'll be investing that money in facility upgrades in hopes of getting into a better conference.

[Abe Sargent]

Yup yup

[Young Drachma]

Most of that money is going to UConn, Cincy and USF.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

One suggestion for the name of the Big East football exiles - reviving the Metro Conference name.

[Young Drachma]

Notre Dame Fighting Irish could join ACC this summer if school can negotiate Big East exit, according to sources - ESPN

ACC would take Notre Dame this summer after all..

[Young Drachma]

Big East eyes 'America 12' as new conference name for football schools, sources say - ESPN

Big East football schools to become the America 12 conference.

[Logan]

I hope Rutgers doesn't spring for a new stencil to spraypaint the football field, much less actually spend money on signage for a year.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Big East eyes 'America 12' as new conference name for football schools, sources say - ESPN

Big East football schools to become the America 12 conference.

Much better than "Not Conference USA...Seriously!"

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Kodos

East and West. West would be the traditional Big Ten teams. But anything would be better than what we currently have as far as names are concerned. It'd basically be the traditional Big 10 in one division, and the best of the Big East/ACC in the new division.

I'd like to see us bring in Kansas too.

So, one division:
Indiana
Michigan
Michigan State
Wisconsin
Ohio State
Illinois
Minnesota
Purdue
Northwestern
Iowa

Other division:
All the rest

So you would put Nebraska in the East?

[spleen1015]

Does anyone have a good resource that shows all of the conference realignment that has happened? I would like to see what happened to the Big east teams that aren't in the new conference. Like where did UConn go?

[Logan]

UConn remains in the Big East, and has no option to move right now. (sorry...the America 12)

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So you would put Nebraska in the East?

I would put Nebraska in the "New" division. They wanted the money, they can deal with the extra travel. East and West was a bad word choice. My divisions would be New and Old.


I just want my team to play the traditional teams, rather than all the newbies that I don't care about.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Does anyone have a good resource that shows all of the conference realignment that has happened? I would like to see what happened to the Big east teams that aren't in the new conference. Like where did UConn go?

UConn is sticking with the America 12.

Conference Realignment | CollegeSportsInfo.com

This guy has been the best at keeping up with the changes and speculating ideas often before they'd happen.

Big East will be Catholic 7 (Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova, Providence, DePaul, Georgetown & Marquette) along with Xavier (A10), Creighton (MVC) Butler (A10) going immediately and probably Dayton (A10) and St. Louis (A10) joining in 2014-15.

America 12 is all of the football schools from the Big East and in theory, Notre Dame though the split means they're probably headed to the ACC early it seems. (Memphis, Temple, East Carolina, SMU, Central Florida, Houston, South Florida, UConn, Cincinnati) Louisville & Rutgers will play for one year before leaving for ACC & B1G respectively. Tulsa is the likeliest expansion candidate right now for this league to give them 12, once Navy joins in 2015.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Logan

I hope Rutgers doesn't spring for a new stencil to spraypaint the football field, much less actually spend money on signage for a year.

Just put the B1G logos, banners, etc. up now and fuck this conference.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

SEC network announcement to come shortly after NCAA tournament is complete......

Commissioner: SEC to announce launch of TV network in mid-April - Yahoo! Sports

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Just put the B1G logos, banners, etc. up now and fuck this conference.

I would think Rutgers should be excited about the 2013 football season. It is really their last chance to win a league (outright) and get that elusive BCS bid, whatever that may be in 2013.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Marmel

I would think Rutgers should be excited about the 2013 football season. It is really their last chance to win a league (outright) and get that elusive BCS bid, whatever that may be in 2013.

Isnt OSU eligible? Im not sure how Rutgers will stand up against that team.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Isnt OSU eligible? Im not sure how Rutgers will stand up against that team.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

SEC network announcement to come shortly after NCAA tournament is complete......

Commissioner: SEC to announce launch of TV network in mid-April - Yahoo! Sports

This actually kinda surprises me in a way.

I've seen the ratings for the games that are already airing. Outside of football, nothing else has a pulse outside of a few markets (Lady Vols b'ball, UK men's hoops, etc).

I'm just not sure where anybody makes their money back on the additional investment honestly. There aren't THAT many vanity advertisers out there, and those that are won't be making a buying decision based on a few thousand extra spots in programs that literally post a 0.0 rating (i.e audience is too small to be reliably measured).

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Youre a sweetie.

My bad. 2013 in the Big East. Thinking they would be aboard the B1G.

[Kodos]

Divisions debate down to Indiana, Purdue - Big Ten Blog - ESPN

The East division looks pretty stacked. Could be tough sledding for my Hoosiers.

Divisions debate down to Indiana, Purdue
March, 19, 2013
By Adam Rittenberg | ESPN.com

The Big Ten's future division alignment is taking shape. Barring a late shift in the discussions between athletic directors and league officials, the only question to sort out is: Will Indiana or Purdue move West?

League sources have told ESPN.com that the Big Ten, as expected, will go with a geographic split for its divisions in 2014. As we first reported last month, time zones are expected to divide the divisions. The only problem: eight Big Ten schools are located in the Eastern time zone, including future members Maryland and Rutgers, while just six are located in the Central time zone.

One team needs to move West, and speculation has centered on three schools: Purdue, Indiana and Michigan State. But Michigan State isn't in play to move West, sources say, and the debate now is whether Indiana or Purdue enters the "West" division.

Although no announcement is imminent and discussions will continue, here's what the divisions are expected to look like (the division names have yet to be decided):

"East" division

Maryland
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Penn State
Rutgers
Purdue or Indiana


"West" division

Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska
Northwestern
Wisconsin
Purdue or Indiana

Before Hoosier fans and Boiler fans panic about their annual rivalry, rest assured that the Bucket game will be preserved with a protected crossover. Barring a change in the discussions, Indiana-Purdue will be the only protected crossover, as the Big Ten wants to create as much flexibility as possible with its schedules.

League sources tell ESPN.com that a 9-game conference schedule likely will go into effect for the 2016 season -- there's still some discussion about a 10-game league slate, but all signs point to nine -- and that the goal is for every pair of teams to play at least once every four years.

The proposed alignment likely will spark concern about whether the "East" division -- featuring Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Michigan State -- has too much firepower. You can make a good case (Brian Bennett did) that moving Michigan State to the West creates better competitive balance, but the sentiment among the power brokers is that the West still will have enough substance with Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa and an improving Northwestern program. Michigan State athletic director Mark Hollis recently talked about the advantages of being linked to the East Coast and reiterated his desire to play Michigan every year.

So it's almost certainly coming down to Purdue versus Indiana. Purdue has the richer football heritage, reaching 12 bowl games since the 1997 season. Indiana appears to be on the rise under coach Kevin Wilson but must overcome a history of losing. Both teams have trophy games against other Big Ten squads -- Purdue and Illinois play for the Purdue Cannon, while Indiana and Michigan State play for the Old Brass Spittoon -- but both series are, in our view, expendable.

My division alignment proposal had Purdue going West, and I'm sticking to it. Purdue is stronger historically and gives the West a program that not long ago was competing for league titles. Although Indiana certainly is headed in the right direction, Purdue is a safer pick to balance out the power in the East.

[Logan]

It'll be tough for Rutgers as well. I don't care though...can't wait for my 2014 season tickets to arrive.

[Daimyo]

Seems a no-brainer for Indiana to go east and Purdue west. Its better geographically and the east really needs a cupcake. It would be pretty insane if they used those divisions for basketball though.

[Matthean]

The East is going to be brutal for football.

[molson]

Eh, I don't know why you guys are worried about divisions, Jim Delany is on the record as saying that the Big 10 schools will drop down to a Division III-style arrangement if Ed O'Bannon wins his lawsuit against the NCAA. I'm sure he's being sincere and everything.

Jim Delany: Big Ten could go to D-III if O'Bannon beats NCAA - College Football - Andy Staples - SI.com

[BishopMVP]

X, Butler and Creighton to make it official this morning - Xavier, Butler, Creighton set to announce Big East move

[finketr]

Catholic-7, but who is really paying attention anyway?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by finketr

Catholic-7, but who is really paying attention anyway?

No, remember? The so-called C7 schools got to keep the Big East name. It's the other guys who have to find a new name in the next couple of months.

[Young Drachma]

I was in Omaha over the weekend and the newspaper had a huge feature on the Big East move. They're pumped about this step up to the big time for them.

[RedKingGold]

As a fan of one of the C7, I wish we picked the new name. The "Big East" moniker has been so maligned over the past decade that it only leaves a negative impression in mind.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

No, remember? The so-called C7 schools got to keep the Big East name. It's the other guys who have to find a new name in the next couple of months.

The "America-12" trial balloon did not go well. Mike Aresco says America 12 name 'unlikely' - ESPN

[Butter]

As a University of Dayton fan, this news is not going over well. The statement at the presser that "we are happy at 10 teams" is... saddening. Plus, looking at the conference that will likely be left if SLU, Richmond, and UMass leave... is depressing. VCU may even look to get out. People are panicking and saying that Dayton should try to get in the Missouri Valley as Creighton's replacement. Dogs and cats living together --- mass hysteria.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

As a fan of one of the C7, I wish we picked the new name. The "Big East" moniker has been so maligned over the past decade that it only leaves a negative impression in mind.

I think they'll restore it, since it's basketball/olympic sports only. Still has some value. It's the football schools where it'd become a joke and they wisely needed a change. Seems like with America 12 failing, they will default back to Metro Conference.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

As a University of Dayton fan, this news is not going over well. The statement at the presser that "we are happy at 10 teams" is... saddening. Plus, looking at the conference that will likely be left if SLU, Richmond, and UMass leave... is depressing. VCU may even look to get out. People are panicking and saying that Dayton should try to get in the Missouri Valley as Creighton's replacement. Dogs and cats living together --- mass hysteria.

Wait... is the thinking that the nBE will take SLU and Richmond, and leave Dayton behind? UMass to the old BE looks less likely - it seems like they're only considering Tulsa right now. (Hopefully they just hold off on them for now, and our football team can pick up some wins and fans in the next couple years, but they don't want us now with our 1 win-season and sub 10k attendance.)

Hearing George Mason and Siena to the A10 might be close... George Mason is a no-brainer imo (and according to some would have already been in if Charlotte's leaving didn't give us an odd number of teams), and Siena isn't a terrible choice, although I might prefer Stony Brook - the SUNY system seems to be turning them into a real flagship - or Davidson, who is a smaller school, but has a real track record of basketball success. I know neither is midwestern at all, but I don't see why other schools in that direction would want to come in without some commitment from Dayton and SLU which I doubt they want to give. (I'm also not really sure there are many good midwestern options - Indiana State wouldn't be bad, but Ohio U probably wouldn't leave the MAC, and who's next? Wichita State would be like 400 miles from another school, I'm not a fan of Belmont.)

[Butter]

Yes, word is that Georgetown is pushing Richmond... which would actually make more sense geographically, despite the fact that UD is better in nearly every measure than Richmond... bigger fan base, bigger TV market, better basketball history, larger school. Basically, the feeling is that since they didn't announce who the next "round" of entrants would be in another year, that there is no internal agreement within the NBE beyond SLU. No news is bad news.

I don't know that I would take George Mason... I would like Davidson quite a bit, though. Siena is also a meh for me. I don't think Wichita State would leave the MVC for the relative uncertainty of the A10.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Yes, word is that Georgetown is pushing Richmond... which would actually make more sense geographically, despite the fact that UD is better in nearly every measure than Richmond... bigger fan base, bigger TV market, better basketball history, larger school.

Just for the record ...

Richmond is TV DMA #57 with 553,390 households
Dayton is TV DMA #63 with 498,270 households