Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

This is not true at all. Villanova considered the move, but the cost of expanding Villanova Stadium as well as tepid fan support quickly killed the idea.

Right, by "allowed by" I meant if their potential plan of playing in the soccer stadium in Chester was met with more enthusiasm by the conference, which it wasn't for obvious reasons.

edit: I shouldn't have said they were desperate to move up. That would have meant doing whatever necessary to get the infrastructure in place, like you're saying. My larger point was that they weren't averse to tying themselves to the football schools and risk being associated with "big time athletics" as was indicated in the earlier post by molson.

[finketr]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Can you imagine the Catholic League, which I'm tentatively called the UCC - Universal Catholic Conference, in the MSG tournament with teams like Gonzaga against Georgetown and such? Man that would be must watch TV of the highest caliber.

That's a bit redundant, don't you think?

[corbes]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I do agrees with this. It would be nice to renew the Big 5 rivalry, it's diminished significantly over the past two decades.

I feel like it would be a hit if we could just make a conference out of the Big 5, plus Drexel I guess, and play all conference games as doubleheaders at the Palestra. There isn't a niche marketing opportunity here?

While I'm in charge of PR let's fire Andy Reid and make Buddy Ryan the interim coach for the remainder of the season.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by finketr

That's a bit redundant, don't you think?

lol

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by corbes

I feel like it would be a hit if we could just make a conference out of the Big 5, plus Drexel I guess, and play all conference games as doubleheaders at the Palestra. There isn't a niche marketing opportunity here?

Logistically it can't work since the schools aren't in the same conference and haven't played with each other for 5 years or more. So they wouldn't get an autobid and also, no one outside of Philly would want to watch.

But hey, maybe someday the A's will come back.

[Young Drachma]

A Smart Breakaway for Big East Basketball Schools - NYTimes.com

[Abe Sargent]

Good article YD

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

A Smart Breakaway for Big East Basketball Schools - NYTimes.com

I'm certainly not smart enough to prove Nate Silver wrong, but it seems like there should be some consideration (either proving or ruling out) given to whether or not losing a number of consistent NCAA qualifiers has been artificially inflating some of these teams' RPIs. I don't claim to understand the metrics that Sagarin uses, but it seems reasonable that being in a conference with Syracuse (8 appearances in past 10 years), Louisville (6 out of 7 appearances since joining the BE), Notre Dame (6 out of 10), West Virginia (7 of 10), Pitt (9 of 10), and UConn (8 of 10), who were all pumping BCS/football revenue into their coaches/facilities, had to impact the overall RPI of the conference more than just adding the non-football "league average" programs would have.

[Young Drachma]

I think that the article makes the case that taking the cream of several basketball only conferences, coupled with the basketball-first schools of the Big East (Specifically Georgetown, Villanova) will create a fringe major league or at least the best mid-major basketball-only league out there, especially if it's coast to coast.

Sure, some of them will have to be at the bottom of the league, but the revenues and exposure would offset that. But a 5-6 bid league would be a heck of an improvement over all of those CAA/A-10/WCC/MVC schools coming from 1-3 bid leagues and give the Big East exiles a chance to maintain a semblance of what they'd grown accustomed to in the Big East with 7-10 bids per year lately.

It might not work, but it's a far better situation than any of them have right now.

[Young Drachma]

Aresco remains 'optimistic' about Big East's future

According to a person familiar with the talks that are being held but who is not authorized to speak, a plan to immediately distribute the exit fee money collected from schools that have left or in the process of leaving -- West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Louisville and Rutgers -- is being seriously discussed. The person spoke to USA TODAY Sports on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.

In such a scenario the money -- estimated to be more than $20 million -- would be distributed among the 10 remaining schools with full voting privileges in the Big East -- St. John's, Villanova, Providence, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Marquette, DePaul, Cincinnati, South Florida and Connecticut. Eventually, the exit fee money will double that total, but much of that is being paid in installments and some of it, in the case of Rutgers, is being disputed.

The exit fee distribution does two things: It allows the seven Catholic schools to take a large financial bonus and still walk away from the league; and it prevents the total amount from being diluted when the Big East expands to a 12-team conference in football on July 1.

[Logan]

I'd love to see them try to do that. The league didn't distribute the WVU, Pitt, and Cuse exit fee money yet...for what reason? Rutgers and Louisville are owed shares of that money for being in the league when all those schools' exits were agreed to, and I believe Pitt/Cuse are owed from WVU as well. It would take some serious balls to distribute all those fees and then immediately dissolve the league without needing to pay their own fees like they should (or not pay the fee but wait the required 27 months to leave).

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'd love to see them try to do that. The league didn't distribute the WVU, Pitt, and Cuse exit fee money yet...for what reason? Rutgers and Louisville are owed shares of that money for being in the league when all those schools' exits were agreed to, and I believe Pitt/Cuse are owed from WVU as well. It would take some serious balls to distribute all those fees and then immediately dissolve the league without needing to pay their own fees like they should (or not pay the fee but wait the required 27 months to leave).

League can't be dissolved. If they do, Big East loses its auto-bid to the BCS (and well, the NCAA tournaments though the remnant league would likely get a waiver) for next year. They're just going to fast track the distribution of funds before those new schools join and still split after a particular period of time for their new league.

I hope they leave behind the (Tainted) name and come up with something new. That brand is too damaged and if they're really starting a national league, they won't need it anyway.

[Logan]

The auto-bid being lost isn't a guarantee according to the BCS guys.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

I hope they leave behind the (Tainted) name and come up with something new. That brand is too damaged and if they're really starting a national league, they won't need it anyway.

The Big Priest?

Overall, I'll believe these schools break away when it happens. I think they're leaving money on the table by breaking away from the football teams, and for every random school that de-emphasizes athletics (Chicago, Sewanee) I have a hard time seeing universities walk away from money en masse.

And, as always, I'm trying to see where the best case scenario for UMass is. Do we get added to the Big East if the basketball schools break away, or does that only happen if UConn gets an invite to the ACC and they need a New England team?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

The Big Priest?

Love it

SI

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

The Big Priest?

Overall, I'll believe these schools break away when it happens. I think they're leaving money on the table by breaking away from the football teams, and for every random school that de-emphasizes athletics (Chicago, Sewanee) I have a hard time seeing universities walk away from money en masse.

And, as always, I'm trying to see where the best case scenario for UMass is. Do we get added to the Big East if the basketball schools break away, or does that only happen if UConn gets an invite to the ACC and they need a New England team?

The money they're leaving on the table isn't as significant as it once was. And once UConn and Cincinnati leaves, there won't really be much of a product worth lowering the value of their own programs being associated with Tulane and a bunch of other C-USA schools.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Logan

The auto-bid being lost isn't a guarantee according to the BCS guys.

Yeah, because those guys are totally trustworthy.

They'd probably just take the Big East bid, re-write the bylaws for next year and make it a Group of Five bid a year early (MAC, Big East replacement league, MWC, Sun Belt, C-USA) since that's all that's going to happen to it anyway.

Big East football still has options amid breakup from hoop schools - CBSSports.com

But even with the split, this is what Big East football will look like next year regardless of what the CYO splinters decide to do. Big East title game at someone's home stadium and so...should be an okay league for a year.

Boise State, Louisville, Cincinnati, Rutgers, Connecticut, South Florida, Central Florida, Houston, SMU, San Diego State, Memphis and Temple.

[Logan]

Where are Cincy and UConn going? They should stay right where they are and sue the basketball schools for the exit fees.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

The money they're leaving on the table isn't as significant as it once was. And once UConn and Cincinnati leaves, there won't really be much of a product worth lowering the value of their own programs being associated with Tulane and a bunch of other C-USA schools.

We'll see. UConn and Cincinnati also don't have other homes right now despite literally begging other conferences, and they're both pretty valuable basketball teams (well, UConn not as much right now). That's the other thing - yeah this Catholic-ish league would be good if they cherry-picked your Xavier's and Butler's, but those 7 schools on their own aren't all that good. No one's tuned in to watch Seton Hall, Providence or Depaul in the last 20 years. St. John's and Villanova have been down recently. Marquette and Georgetown are solid, but I could make an argument that they're the 7th and 8th most prestigious teams in the current Big East, behind 'Cuse/Louisville/UConn/ND/Cincy/Pitt - yeah, that probably undersells Georgetown some, but not all that much. The Catholic 7 are basically the A10 without the bottom-feeder schools dragging them down, and we see how little that's worth to TV execs ($300-400,000 per team.)

[Young Drachma]

Seven schools decide to leave Big East, pursue new basketball framework - ESPN

It's official.

"Earlier today we voted unanimously to pursue an orderly evolution to a foundation of basketball schools that honors the history and tradition on which the Big East was established," the seven presidents said in a joint statement. "Under the current context of conference realignment, we believe pursuing a new basketball framework that builds on this tradition of excellence and competition is the best way forward."

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

We'll see. UConn and Cincinnati also don't have other homes right now despite literally begging other conferences, and they're both pretty valuable basketball teams (well, UConn not as much right now). That's the other thing - yeah this Catholic-ish league would be good if they cherry-picked your Xavier's and Butler's, but those 7 schools on their own aren't all that good. No one's tuned in to watch Seton Hall, Providence or Depaul in the last 20 years. St. John's and Villanova have been down recently. Marquette and Georgetown are solid, but I could make an argument that they're the 7th and 8th most prestigious teams in the current Big East, behind 'Cuse/Louisville/UConn/ND/Cincy/Pitt. The Catholic 7 are basically the A10 without the bottom-feeder schools dragging them down, and we see how little that's worth to TV execs ($300-400,000 per team.)

They're obviously not splitting to start a 7-team league. All indications are that these guys can poach any mid-major team basketball-only schools they'd want to, for the most part. Who doesn't want to be in a league with Georgetown and Villanova?

They'll likely fetch 3 times what the A-10 got for their deal, ESPECIALLY if it's a national footprint league rather than a regional one with limited appeal.

[Izulde]

Be crazy if they also poached Drexel, Canisius and San Francisco (okay those aren't likely to happen). Then they could call it the Izulde Jestor conference because they'll have every school I'm applying to with the exception of Miami, which I haven't fully decided on whether or not to apply.

[Swaggs]

Hearing a couple of things:

--ESPN is trying really, really hard to find UConn a soft landing spot (in the ACC or Big Ten). Apparently, ESPN has received a lot of assistance from the state of Connecticut over the years and now the state is calling in favors.
--Florida State has been working the SEC, Big Ten, and Big 12 over the past few weeks. An "insider" today said that they have gone back to SEC for a "one, last chance" opportunity and that they are prepared to move on.
--Some folks think that the Jim Delany is actively trying to destabilize the ACC in order to "force" Notre Dame's hand. With the Big East now knocked out, if the ACC becomes less attractive (if say, the Big Ten takes two teams, the SEC takes teams, and the Big 12 takes 2-6), Notre Dame's Olympic sports will not have a home unless they want to stick with the Catholic only schools.

[Izulde]

I think Notre Dame joining the C7 conference would be awesome, while still maintaining independence in football.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I think Notre Dame joining the C7 conference would be awesome, while still maintaining independence in football.

Me too!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Hearing a couple of things:

--Some folks think that the Jim Delany is actively trying to destabilize the ACC in order to "force" Notre Dame's hand. With the Big East now knocked out, if the ACC becomes less attractive (if say, the Big Ten takes two teams, the SEC takes teams, and the Big 12 takes 2-6), Notre Dame's Olympic sports will not have a home unless they want to stick with the Catholic only schools.

Hell, I said that a few weeks ago. It seems obvious that's their best way to land ND in short order.

[Buccaneer]

Just for the record, here's the standing of the Independents in 1987. Lots of good teams...

Team W L T W L T
#1 Miami (FL) – – 12 – 0 – 0
#4 Syracuse – – 11 – 0 – 1
#2 Florida State – – 11 – 1 – 0
#15 South Carolina – – 8 – 4 – 0
Pittsburgh – – 8 – 4 – 0
Penn State – – 8 – 4 – 0
#17 Notre Dame – – 8 – 4 – 0
Southern Miss – – 6 – 5 – 0
Rutgers – – 6 – 5 – 0
Southwestern Louisiana – – 6 – 5 – 0
Memphis – – 5 – 5 – 1
Northern Illinois – – 5 – 5 – 1
West Virginia – – 6 – 6 – 0
Tulane – – 6 – 6 – 0
Army – – 5 – 6 – 0
Boston College – – 5 – 6 – 0
East Carolina – – 5 – 6 – 0
Akron – – 4 – 7 – 0
Cincinnati – – 4 – 7 – 0
Louisville – – 3 – 7 – 1
Temple – – 3 – 8 – 0
Tulsa – – 3 – 8 – 0
Navy – – 2 – 9 – 0
Virginia Tech – – 2 – 9 – 0

[Logan]

NCAAF Big questions on exits from Big East - ESPN

[Young Drachma]

Butler Bulldogs president on 'Catholic 7' rumor says school will 'do what is right' - ESPN

[Young Drachma]

Notre Dame weighing its options after Big East fallout - College Football - Pete Thamel - SI.com

"It is an untenable situation and we have to actively consider how we can get to resolution," Swarbrick told SI.com on Monday. "You have two halves of a conference splitting and that creates real uncertainty for Notre Dame given the things that have to be negotiated among those parties."
The biggest issue hovering over the future of both leagues is their lack of a television agreement. The Big East's basketball television deal ends at the end of this season. The new league, which is just days old, has been shopping itself for a deal.
What makes the situation with the broken up Big East so tenuous is that the lack of a television deal means that it is highly unlikely that any network would offer a significant one- or two-year deal that would allow schools like Notre Dame, Rutgers and Louisville to fulfill their contract. The chances of any network offering a reasonable deal for a stopgap league are slim. And with interest high in the Catholic 7's unnamed conference television rights, there's likely little desire for those schools to stay for the next two seasons as well.
"I just think that, not withstanding what the parties' intentions may be, that the challenges of entering into new media agreements may play a big role in what the timing really is," Swarbrick said. "Neither party to this dispute has a media agreement at the end of this basketball season."
Swarbrick said that there is significant pressure considering that Notre Dame's fall sports begin in just seven months. If Notre Dame waits too long to make a move, it could be left out.
"In the worse case scenario, the divorce gets worked out and no one has custody of the kid," he said. "I'm not looking to be independent in 26 sports."
So what's next?
Swarbrick said that the ACC is open to taking Notre Dame in basketball and other sports next season without having to fulfill football-scheduling obligations.
"I really don't know," he said regarding Notre Dame's next move. "I'm not trying to dodge the question. There's a lot of moving parts. There's a time pressure on that side, too. They have to know what their season is going to look like."
One of Swarbrick's biggest frustrations has been being boxed out of the Big East discussions. Notre Dame announced it was leaving the league in September. Under its Mutual Commitment Agreement with the league, Notre Dame does not owe an exit fee.

The plot thickens in a sense. Hadn't consider what the impact of a lack of a tv deal would do to teams supposedly staying around for two years, meaning some kind of quickened divorce.

[Buccaneer]

I was reading this article As Big East crumbles, race begins to be power conference No. 6 - NCAA Football - CBSSports.com News, Scores, Stats, Schedule and BCS Rankings and I am still confused about the playoffs. It says "The five power conferences (SEC, Big 12, Pac-12, ACC, Big Ten) are guaranteed lucrative contract bowls beginning in 2014. That No. 6 conference champion will get the guaranteed playoff bowl berth in most years beginning in 2014 -- legitimizing and financing itself. "

Does that mean that the four winners of the Big 5/6 will be the playoff teams but not the best 4 teams?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I was reading this article As Big East crumbles, race begins to be power conference No. 6 - NCAA Football - CBSSports.com News, Scores, Stats, Schedule and BCS Rankings and I am still confused about the playoffs. It says "The five power conferences (SEC, Big 12, Pac-12, ACC, Big Ten) are guaranteed lucrative contract bowls beginning in 2014. That No. 6 conference champion will get the guaranteed playoff bowl berth in most years beginning in 2014 -- legitimizing and financing itself. "

Does that mean that the four winners of the Big 5/6 will be the playoff teams but not the best 4 teams?

That language in that article was not quite accurate.

All six bowls will rotate as semifinals for the playoff. The postseason will feature three "contract" bowls – meaning games with tie-ins to conference affiliations (Rose, Sugar, Orange) – and three "host" bowls – games without tie-ins. Those games will be played New Year's Eve and New Year's Day; the championship game will be played a week later, on a Monday night.

That guaranteed "playoff berth" they're referring to for the Group of 5 conferences (Big East/MWC/MAC/Sun Belt/C-USA) will be a berth to one of the "host" bowls without tie-ins. That's independent from the playoffs. The playoffs will be 4 teams selected by a committee separate from the contract bowls and host bowls.

So one of those Group of 5 schools could be a playoff team, but no matter what, at least one of their teams will get a spot into a marquee bowl thanks to the auto-bid they have to one of the spots with the rest presumably going to major conference schools. The committee will decide who the "four best teams" in the nation are, based on some criteria.

[Buccaneer]

So what if it's the Rose Bowl's turn in the playoff/semifinal rotation but neither the Pac12 nor the Big10 team is one of the top 4?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So what if it's the Rose Bowl's turn in the playoff/semifinal rotation but neither the Pac12 nor the Big10 team is one of the top 4?

When you're in the semifinal rotation, it'll be like when the Rose Bowl was in the national championship game during the Vince Young year, they'll be assigned their matchup.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

When you're in the semifinal rotation, it'll be like when the Rose Bowl was in the national championship game during the Vince Young year, they'll be assigned their matchup.

And the Pac12/Big10 teams play elsewhere since they are contractually obligated to play in one of the big bowls?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

And the Pac12/Big10 teams play elsewhere since they are contractually obligated to play in one of the big bowls?

Correct, as I understand it. The matchup isn't necessarily replicated, it just means that they'd get some pick. In most years, there's at least a 25% chance that one of the teams from those contract bowls would be in the semi-finals anyway.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Correct, as I understand it. The matchup isn't necessarily replicated, it just means that they'd get some pick. In most years, there's at least a 25% chance that one of the teams from those contract bowls would be in the semi-finals anyway.

I'm sorry, why 25%? There's a chance that all four semifinal teams could be from the same conference, right? I guess what I'm trying to understand is how much power will the conferences have in rigging the playoffs, as in not being left out.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I'm sorry, why 25%? There's a chance that all four semifinal teams could be from the same conference, right? I guess what I'm trying to understand is how much power will the conferences have in rigging the playoffs, as in not being left out.

No details on the committee yet. But Si did a mock committee to give you an idea of how it might go.

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/ncaa/11/29/college-football-playoff-mock-selection-committee/index.html

[Izulde]

Most amusing thing about the C7 fallout? UNLV was contacted by the Big East for exploratory discussions, but as Thamel noted, with Boise State and SDSU likely back to the Mountain West, that won't happen now.

[Young Drachma]

Well all losing Boise and SDSU does is remove their title game possibility, but since it was a hosted home game and both were just for football only, it won't do much. They should've given those guys full membership from the start, but they were trying to salvage what little dignity the league had left back then.

Now? Meh. The obvious hitch is their lack of a TV deal and inability to get one. Except, most of those teams are trapped unless they want to take a step down outside of the two western clubs and I don't know if those Texas teams want to join the MWC.

[General Mike]

How are the unable to get one? If Conference USA can get one with the same teams 2 years ago, why can't the Big East get one?

[Wolfpack]

Boise is all but officially bailing out of the restructured Big East:
Boise State Broncos staying in Mountain West Conference, sources say - ESPN

This will probably cue San Diego State to also stay in the MWC as they can get out of the Big East without paying a fee so long as there are no members west of the Rockies.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by General Mike

How are the unable to get one? If Conference USA can get one with the same teams 2 years ago, why can't the Big East get one?

The Big East could've gotten one two years ago too. But they held out for more cash. Now the entire exercise is imploding akin to the WAC. No one wants to give them a TV deal based on the current composition of the league because no one knows what the final composition will look like.

[JeeberD]

Sounds like the MWC is interested in bringing in SMU, Houston, Tulsa, and UTEP.

ESPN: Mountain West may target UTEP for expansion, sources say - El Paso Times

Dear god how I would love this. It would get us back in a conference with our old WAC rivals (particularly UNM) while maintaining our ties to our new Texas/Oklahoma rivals. This would be the best of both worlds...the reason we left the WAC for CUSA plus our old rivalries back.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Sounds like the MWC is interested in bringing in SMU, Houston, Tulsa, and UTEP.

ESPN: Mountain West may target UTEP for expansion, sources say - El Paso Times

Dear god how I would love this. It would get us back in a conference with our old WAC rivals (particularly UNM) while maintaining our ties to our new Texas/Oklahoma rivals. This would be the best of both worlds...the reason we left the WAC for CUSA plus our old rivalries back.

There's a real possibility with the Big East quickly imploding that we may still see the conferences stay with a more regional perspective (i.e. keep all members within two adjacent time zones. The Big East was making a disaster of it all for a bit there, but we may see a bit more common sense now and keep things a bit more orderly. Only exception would be if any B12 members bolt for the Pac-12 at some point when they push for 16 teams, but that at least makes a bit more sense than some of these moves we've seen.

[molson]

One of the carrots the MWC gave Boise St was that the conference will only get 50% of any Boise St. BCS payout, and the conference would get the rest. That could be a pretty big deal if they can ever get back to a BCS bowl. They previously got about $4 million for BCS bowls, going forward they could get up to $25 million in the new format.

Future big-time bowl game appearances will bring big money to Boise State | More Boise State Football | Idahostatesman.com

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by molson

the conference will only get 50% of any Boise St. BCS payout, and the conference would get the rest.

Sounds like Boise State should have read the fine print on that one.

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, most conferences split the money evenly. So that's a big concession.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Sounds like Boise State should have read the fine print on that one.

[Young Drachma]

Fleeing Big East schools working toward lucrative TV deal for basketball - ESPN

Under the current Big East deal, which expires at the end of this season, the non-football schools receive between $2 million and $3 million from the television contract. There was initial fear the defections of recent football members would leave the non-football schools in a worse position.

It is believed the "Catholic 7" would divide its share of the television rights evenly and split the rest among what ideally will become the other three-to-five schools that it adds to form a 10- to 12-team conference. One source said it is likely the new schools wouldn't share the same amount as the "Catholic 7," which would allow the former Big East basketball schools to earn in the $5 million range. It's thought that free agent schools such as the ones in the Atlantic 10 would be fine with making less than half of that on an annual basis because they currently pull in $400,000 a year. However, under current conference bylaws, there's a required 27-month window in order not to owe exit fees.

In a perfect situation, the "Catholic 7" would be able to leave the Big East at the end of this season and bring in new members, which would allow its television contract to begin next season. Perhaps the promise of new money would allow it to pay fees to get out earlier.