2023 NFL Regular Season Thread

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Achane appears to be out multiple weeks, possibly headed to IR. As is Vikings WR Jefferson.

oof

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I'll say that I have to admit Brady was very talented and a fierce competitor. But I still think he is a douche who cares mainly about #12.

I always loved seeing Tom Brady succeed, because he played at Michigan and has always been really supportive of the program. I liked seeing a former UofM quarterback become the GOAT.

That being said, I agree with Kodos.

[Thomkal]

Cards RB James Conner also goes on IR

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Bobble

I hear a lot of (us) old-timers lament that young QBs these days don't get a chance to sit behind a veteran and learn the trade. Do we think that helped Love at all? I feel like that "waiting and learning" time is, like, 20% effective. As if Love was getting 20% of his experience points sitting behind Aaron. Not worth it.

I am not sure how we would determine if it helped or not because he did not sit behind Rodgers in the way I think we generally define that terminology. I did a bit of digging into Love's career numbers and decided to use Aaron Rodgers as a comparison since he is usually the go to example for learning while sitting behind a vet.

Through his first 15 games played, Rodgers was 4-4 with 8 starts. His stat line was 202 for 321, 2311 yards 14 TDs 6 INTs 91.3 QB rating, 26 sacks 7.2 Y/A, 7.23 AY/A.

Love is 2-4 with 6 starts. Stat line is 140-245, 57.14%, 1689 yds, 11TD, 9 INTs, 78.1 rating, 13 sacks, 6.89 Y/A, 6.14 AY/A.

Rodger's numbers are better but not that much better sans completion percentage. Of course Rodgers's first 15 games played was over his first three plus regular seasons in the league and he did not start a game until the first game of his fourth season in the league. Love's numbers are from his first two plus years in the league with his first start coming nine games into his rookie year. Here are Rodgers's numbers from his first three years in the league going into his first start.

7 games, 35/59 59.3% 329yds 1TD/1 INT 73.3 rating 9 sacks 5.6 Y/A 5.2 AY/A.

Finally, we all remember the game when some decided Love would never be a good NFL quarterback. Rodgers was hurt and Love started against the Chiefs. This was the third time he was on the field in his rookie season. He was not good.

19/34 55.8% 190yds 1 TD/1 INT 69.5 rating 1 sack 5.59 Y/A 4.85 AY/A

I already said Rodgers did not start but he did play the 4th quarter against the 6-10 Baltimore after Farvre got pulled. Rodgers was worse.

8-15 53.3% 65 yards 0 TD/1 INT 36.8 rating 3 sacks 4.33 Y/A 1.33 AY/A

Love may not be a good QB. Sitting behind Rodgers may not have done anything for him. But it is probably not a good time to judge Love just like it would have been ridiculous to judge Rodgers time on the bench after his first three years in the league.

[bhlloy]

Yeah, I mean you aren’t a real old-timer unless you have at least a few Aaron Rodgers hot taeks somewhere out there in the inter webs. Please don’t look up any of mine.

But seriously, it is such a different league these days it feels like a million miles away even going back that far. Brett Favre threw 24 interceptions and completed 61% of his passes his second full year with the Packers. He’d be out of a starting job if he did that today. Peyton’s first season is legendary. It’s just not the same position with how much the passing game is critical and how if you don’t have a clear top guy you have a minuscule shot at winning a Super Bowl.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Bobble

I hear a lot of (us) old-timers lament that young QBs these days don't get a chance to sit behind a veteran and learn the trade. Do we think that helped Love at all? I feel like that "waiting and learning" time is, like, 20% effective. As if Love was getting 20% of his experience points sitting behind Aaron. Not worth it.

There's a really great interview that was done on Chicago sports radio with a former front office guy from the Bears. Was fascinating to hear the behind the scenes stuff.

One thing that he kept talking about is how important building confidence is for a young QB. That in their research, if a QB was thrown into the fire in a bad spot, they would rarely recover. So his preference was to have the QB sit until the situation was right and the QB was comfortable.

If you look at some of the successful young QBs, they were given pretty good positions. Jalen Hurts got to step behind arguably the best offensive line in football. Mahomes got to sit a year behind Alex Smith and step into an offense that was pretty solid. I think maybe it's less about sitting and more about coaching and supporting cast.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There's a really great interview that was done on Chicago sports radio with a former front office guy from the Bears. Was fascinating to hear the behind the scenes stuff.

One thing that he kept talking about is how important building confidence is for a young QB. That in their research, if a QB was thrown into the fire in a bad spot, they would rarely recover. So his preference was to have the QB sit until the situation was right and the QB was comfortable.

If you look at some of the successful young QBs, they were given pretty good positions. Jalen Hurts got to step behind arguably the best offensive line in football. Mahomes got to sit a year behind Alex Smith and step into an offense that was pretty solid. I think maybe it's less about sitting and more about coaching and supporting cast.

You're talking about the Josh Lucas convo on The Score? Heard that and came out with a similar conclusion. Was very interesting to hear that both Mitch and Justin were drafted knowing that they needed to sit at least a year, but neither staff stuck to the script and both players were put out there before they thought they were ready.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There's a really great interview that was done on Chicago sports radio with a former front office guy from the Bears. Was fascinating to hear the behind the scenes stuff.

One thing that he kept talking about is how important building confidence is for a young QB. That in their research, if a QB was thrown into the fire in a bad spot, they would rarely recover. So his preference was to have the QB sit until the situation was right and the QB was comfortable.

If you look at some of the successful young QBs, they were given pretty good positions. Jalen Hurts got to step behind arguably the best offensive line in football. Mahomes got to sit a year behind Alex Smith and step into an offense that was pretty solid. I think maybe it's less about sitting and more about coaching and supporting cast.

Yeah I don't think there's a one shoe fits all method for developing QBs, but if you're going to play them early they either need to be generational talents or have a solid foundation around them.

Playing a guy early can accelerate development for the handful that are ready for it, but it can also be a detrimental for the rest (majority) that just aren't ready.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by rjolley

You're talking about the Josh Lucas convo on The Score? Heard that and came out with a similar conclusion. Was very interesting to hear that both Mitch and Justin were drafted knowing that they needed to sit at least a year, but neither staff stuck to the script and both players were put out there before they thought they were ready.

The interesting part of that interview is how confident Lucas is that Fields can be a good qb given the right situation. He alluded to Fields being overcoached and thinking too much, which was the problem early last year as well. Once he gets comfortable with what he's being taught and just plays, he's played well. The question remains whether or not he can hit the point where he can just play and play well on a consistent basis.

[rjolley]

He's going to have an interesting career. I'm sure there will be fans and detractors as long as he's in the NFL. It doesn't feel like he's a drop into any system QB at this time. Maybe as he gains reps, he'll get there. But if they tailor the gameplan to what he does well and he has players around him, he should be a solid player that can lead a team.

[thesloppy]

"Aaron Rodgers challenges Travis Kelce to vaccine debate"


Sigh. What a butthole.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Yeah I don't think there's a one shoe fits all method for developing QBs, but if you're going to play them early they either need to be generational talents or have a solid foundation around them.

Playing a guy early can accelerate development for the handful that are ready for it, but it can also be a detrimental for the rest (majority) that just aren't ready.

I agree there is not a one size fit all method but more often than not teams put young QBs in position to fail not just short term but long term because they lack a plan. Joe Burrow went #1 to the 2-14 Bengals. He was drafted to be the starter straight out of the box. That year, they also drafted in Tee Higgins and Jonah Williams. They already had Joe Mixon and Tyler Boyd. AJ Green and Giovanni Bernard were on their last legs but still around. The team still stunk and Burrow got injured but there was enough talent around for Burrow to show what he could do. Next year, they brought in Ja'Marr Chase and boom....the Bengals are in the Super Bowl. I assume that more needs to be done to support a quarterback who was not the number one pick, the MVP of the national championship game did not grade out as a Pro Bowl talent.

The crazy thing is teams will know or even say out loud that the player is not ready to start week 1 or may not be ready to play at all that first season but will play him anyway. As part of my Jordan Love deep dive, I looked at his NFL.com draft profile. Nothing about that said Love should have been on the field in a Week 9 game against the defending AFC champions. Same with Justin Fields. That is bad coaching and bad player development IMO.

I leave you with this passage from an article right after Fields was drafted. In hindsight, the quote from Ryan Pace is so dumbfounding and sums up why I get so frustrated by the analysis of young QBs. Remember Fields played in twelve games as a rookie, started ten with the first start coming in Week 3. He then start fifteen games with an empty cupboard roster.

Now that Fields is officially a Bear, Pace wants to make sure they develop him properly. Because of that, the current plan is for Andy Dalton – who signed a one-year contract with the Bears in March – to be their starting quarterback for the 2021 season.

“Andy is our starter,” Pace said. “And we’re going to have a really good plan in place to develop Justin, and do what’s best for our organization to win games.”

Nagy was the Kansas City Chiefs’ offensive coordinator when they drafted Patrick Mahomes and had him learn behind Alex Smith for a year before taking over as their starting quarterback in his second season, and Pace believes the Bears can use that as a blueprint for Fields’ development.

“Getting him is one thing, but for us to surround him and develop him is the other thing. You can draft the players, but you have to develop them the right way,” Pace said. “The process and how we do that is important. We’ve got a good plan in place to surround him with the right resources, to develop him the right way.”

[CrimsonFox]

cool post, miami.
altho i don't blow smoke up fields' ass like he wants us to think. I think he's too immature to be the starter.

[Bobble]

Fields, Love, but especially how well a derided Jared Goff has been performing says to me that it's almost MORE important to sort out your offensive line before you grab that rookie QB. Sam Darnold seeing ghosts. David Carr having all the talent beaten out of him. I'd put as much stock in making sure your QB has enough time in the pocket to process the play as I would put in giving him guys to throw to. Probably more.

So, give me that 1st round tackle and 3rd round WR rather than the other way around. And do both of those before you take that QB.

[albionmoonlight]

Post by @farzinvousoughian

View on Threads

[CrimsonFox]

what the hells a golden knight

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Bobble

Fields, Love, but especially how well a derided Jared Goff has been performing says to me that it's almost MORE important to sort out your offensive line before you grab that rookie QB. Sam Darnold seeing ghosts. David Carr having all the talent beaten out of him. I'd put as much stock in making sure your QB has enough time in the pocket to process the play as I would put in giving him guys to throw to. Probably more.

So, give me that 1st round tackle and 3rd round WR rather than the other way around. And do both of those before you take that QB.

isn't it pretty easy to trade for a WR?
there's so many of them

[Kodos]

Wow.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

isn't it pretty easy to trade for a WR?
there's so many of them

You can get a Chase Claypool pretty cheap these days.

[Ksyrup]

Funnier would be a list of things that will exist by the time the Broncos finally beat the Chiefs.

[Kodos]

I don't want to think about what has happened since Indiana last beat OSU in football (in 1988). The internet immediately comes to mind...

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Bobble

You can get a Chase Claypool pretty cheap these days.

A traffic cone would be cheaper and more effective.

[Ghost Econ]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I don't want to think about what has happened since Indiana last beat OSU in football (in 1988). The internet immediately comes to mind...

16 of the 19 9/11 hijackers weren't old enough to shave the last time Indiana beat OSU in football.

[larrymcg421]

California had been won by the Republicans for 5 consecutive Presidential elections (and a month later would win their 6th) the last time Indiana beat OSU in football.

[albionmoonlight]

Indiana has never beaten Ohio State while The Simpsons has been on the air.

[albionmoonlight]

Oh! That means that Kodos didn't exist the last time Indiana beat Ohio State!

[Ksyrup]

I was looking at #1 songs and the one specifically on October 8 doesn't convey as much of the time period as the ones before and after it, IMO.

October 1 "Don't Worry, Be Happy" Bobby McFerrin
October 8 "Love Bites" Def Leppard
October 15 "Red, Red Wine" UB40

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Indiana has never beaten Ohio State while The Simpsons has been on the air.

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Oh! That means that Kodos didn't exist the last time Indiana beat Ohio State!

Also...



Also, I wasn't an IU fan yet. This also means I wasn't rooting for them the last time Indiana basketball won the national championship.

I'm fairly sure I will not live long enough to see IU beat OSU in football.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

"Aaron Rodgers challenges Travis Kelce to vaccine debate"


Sigh. What a butthole.

"I don’t play for the Johnson & Johnson corporation, I play for the New York Jets."

Sure, I guess. It would be nice though if someone actually pushed back on this a bit. I'm not surprised McAfee didn't, but it doesn't really seem like he's even been questioned on the issue. For someone who spews a lot of rhetoric about big pharma, he doesn't seem to have an issue taking the Johnson's money.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Making a record of my random predictions:

Super Bowl: Bengals over Cowboys

MVP: Joe Burrow

Favorite Long Shot Super Bowl Pick: Ravens (+2000)

Some Teams to Finish Under their Vegas Win Projections: Chiefs (11.5), Bills (10.5), Eagles (11.5)

Atlanta will get a top 2 seed in the NFC.

Follow me for more can't miss sports gambling tips!

[Ksyrup]

Broncos don't play for another 10 days. If Stidham is NOT QB1 against GB, I'll be surprised.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Broncos don't play for another 10 days. If Stidham is NOT QB1 against GB, I'll be surprised.

Agreed. I don’t know how the Penney’s do it but they will need to do something with Wilson. If they bring him back next year the stadium will be empty. The level of hatred for Wilson in Denver is high. I know he has that crazy contract but even if they convert the entire thing to a bonus and just pay him to go away maybe necessary. Stud ham would be better.

[Ksyrup]

A Heavenly Ham would be better.

[Ksyrup]

It's crazy that Denver's run game has actually been pretty good tonight and it STILL can't set up any kind of passing attack.

[stevew]

How the f is that roughing

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by stevew

How the f is that roughing

It was a mercy call for the Donky’s

[stevew]

That Wilson contract has to be one of the worst of all time already. Denver can’t even cut him as 39m is guaranteed for next year. They can’t really trade him either, as 37M for 2025 guarantees on the 5th day of the 2024 offseason. They’d have to convince (looking at the top cap teams) Ten/NE or Wash to take him in a trade and immediately pay to cut him. What’s that likely to cost? I know the Browns traded for and ate a 16Mstiff QB (played on Donks/Texans) for a 2nd rounder. I assume this would cost at least a 2/3 or even a 1.

Possible the Titans or Pats could keep him but his play is so terrible that it seems unlikely he will still be in the league by 2025. Maybe Wilson agrees to push back the guarantee on 2025 until the 5th day of the 2025 league year so he can try to salvage his career in 2024? Just a mess.

[albionmoonlight]

If I'm Wilson, I'm not renegotiating anything. The odds of a 2024 career salvage are not high.

[stevew]

If they can find someone to eat/cut him they’d still have to do something like trade Jeudy, cut/trade Justin Simmons cut/trade Garret Boles just to get back to under the cap I believe.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by stevew

If they can find someone to eat/cut him they’d still have to do something like trade Jeudy, cut/trade Justin Simmons cut/trade Garret Boles just to get back to under the cap I believe.

And they are already out picks/assets having traded for Payton and Wilson.

This might be the worst situation in the league right now.

[flere-imsaho]

Which contract is the biggest albatross for the respective team that holds it now?

Denver with Wilson
Arizona with Murray
Cleveland with Watson

There are some really stupid decisions being made out there.

[albionmoonlight]

Watson single handedly killed any chances for fully guaranteed contracts becoming the norm going forward.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by stevew

If they can find someone to eat/cut him they’d still have to do something like trade Jeudy, cut/trade Justin Simmons cut/trade Garret Boles just to get back to under the cap I believe.

Yeah this contract sets them back probably 5 years not just on dead money but on the “talent” they have to dump to meet the salary cap. Also what high 1st round QB would be interested to go into this situation. Answer 0 that are worth it.
They probably need to build around this washed QB for the next two years. Plus any QB will be running for his life with no WR ( they are likely trading Jeudy and Sutton away) talent and a terrible oline. The D is terrible and any one decent is also likely being traded. I say trade that high draft pick build the trenches and hope that Mina few years you have a solid team and just need to get a QB

[flere-imsaho]

Chicago should totally take Wilson off of Denver's hands for their 1st next year. They'll have tons of cap space to dump him next year and it would be super funny to have the Bears have the top 3 picks in the draft.

[Ryche]

The Broncos will cut Wilson after this season if they end up with one of the top QBs in the draft. Yeah, the cap hit sucks badly but they can spread it out over 2024 and 2025. And if they keep him they have to guarantee even more of that contract.

[stevew]

I think they can run back Murray and if he sucks they can cut him after 2024. His cap hit and dead money hit are the same.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Chicago should totally take Wilson off of Denver's hands for their 1st next year. They'll have tons of cap space to dump him next year and it would be super funny to have the Bears have the top 3 picks in the draft.

which they will of course waste on people that demand the moon and then suck/get injured

[miami_fan]

Bronco fans:

We're sorry Nath-----

I know you guys aren't there yet but maybe the time with come.

Seriously though, the owners need to hold a day or two of those meetings that teams have at the end of every season to decide the course of the organization moving forward. Who needs to be fired now, whose jobs are on the line for the rest of the season, trades etc.

[tzach]

many will be surprised with russell wilson's stats this season. go check it.


how do you play with that OL? he's been sacked 55 times last season and is on pace for 50+ again.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Ryche

The Broncos will cut Wilson after this season if they end up with one of the top QBs in the draft. Yeah, the cap hit sucks badly but they can spread it out over 2024 and 2025. And if they keep him they have to guarantee even more of that contract.

More than sucksmit is 84 million which they can spread over two years. Overcap shows they are already 12.5 million over the cap for 2024 season so they will need to find $55 million. A new shiny QB is not going to do it. They should have been drafting lineman the past 8 years and fix this line.