2012-2013 MLB Offseason Thread: Go forth to the 2013 MLB Thread

[stevew]

I like Joel, but he was not super effective last year vs the previous one. Hurdle would only use him in save situations, which was maddening. It was either Grilli or some collection of baloney relievers when the game's on the line.

[Swaggs]

Agreed. I liked having him on the Pirates (I like "characters" when it comes to baseball) and he was useful, but with the way Hurdle used him and the fact that he was going to make over 10% of the team payroll for 50-60 innings, just not worth it for us.

I think it was a pretty good return value-wise, but Sands doesn't really have a home with the current roster make up. I think Pimentel is a good lottery ticket-type of guy that could turn into something.

Overall, when you consider they added Liriano for a similar salary, I'd rather have him and the marginal prospects that Hanrahan and Holt.

[Atocep]

So the boy is a big Angels fan (unfortunately) and went to a baseball camp this week run by a former Mariners pitcher. He met Mike Sweeney on the first day and yesterday got to work with Dodgers Assistant Hitting Coordinator Todd Takayoshi, who had worked with the Angels the previous 4 years. The look on his face when he found out that Takayoshi had coached Mike Trout was priceless. He was in awe and probably would have done anything asked of him at that point.

[dolf34]

Urbina has been released from prison in Venezuela early and is looking to make a comeback. He still claims he can throw 90mph.....

[lungs]

WTF, the Brewers signing Mike Gonzalez isn't considered news????????

[MrBug708]

Looking more and more like the Dodgers will be trading Ethier to the M's so they can sign Bourn to bat leadoff. Maybe we can land Feliz

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Maybe we can land Feliz

Pedro? Would probably be tough to pull off at this point.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Looking more and more like the Dodgers will be trading Ethier to the M's so they can sign Bourn to bat leadoff. Maybe we can land Feliz

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS

not sure where new ethier rumors came from. dont like to call anything impossible, but LAD & Sea havent talked "in weeks"

[MrBug708]

So Im in a discussion with some other fans on a message board and the discussion came up on whether or not Buster Posey was one of the best players in baseball. As the Dodger fan, I actually came on the side that he was one of the top players. A group of fans (Pacific NW guys) don't think so.

What do I say? Keep in mind that they don't feel an MVP award means anything.

[lighthousekeeper]

The effects of Type A FA compensation on free agency this off-season have been fascinating.

MLB free agency 2013: Draft, compensation rules depressing market for some players - MLB - Sporting News

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So Im in a discussion with some other fans on a message board and the discussion came up on whether or not Buster Posey was one of the best players in baseball. As the Dodger fan, I actually came on the side that he was one of the top players. A group of fans (Pacific NW guys) don't think so.

What do I say? Keep in mind that they don't feel an MVP award means anything.

You say, "clearly you are all morons and it's not worth discussing this any further with you".

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

You say, "clearly you are all morons and it's not worth discussing this any further with you".

i play ootp, and in one of my leagues, a guy is making the argument that Morris was a better player than noal Ryan in the 80s, since he had more IP and Wins.... regardless of any other number. so.....

[Suicane75]

Better than who?

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Better than who?

sorry... missed nolan ryan

[Suicane75]

Heh. No.

[MrBug708]

Justin Upton apparently blocked a trade to the M's. But they are reworking it so he can get some cash out of the deal since his career will be done

[stevew]

Enjoy hitting 14 homers a year.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

Enjoy hitting 14 homers a year.

If that. He's such a streaky guy. I went and looked since I wasn't sure: 15-26-17-31-17 in Arizona, which is quite a bit of a hitter's park.

I was looking at Safeco home run numbers and it's just nutty:
2012 MLB Park Factors - Runs - Major League Baseball - ESPN
58
103
68
89
90
100

Some years, it's around average. Some years, it's downright dreadful: 58% on home runs?!?

SI

[Bigsmooth]

They are bringing in the fences this offseason which should really help righthanded hitters. T hat said, not sure Upton is the right guy to give up all those prospects for. Stanton is more appropriate but that's not gonna happen.

[Logan]

Rafael Soriano signs with the Nats, 2 years $28 million, with a vesting 3rd year option at another $14MM.

[TRO]

If they have money to throw away, I'll sign a contract to be a fan for 2 years for $250,000.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Logan

Rafael Soriano signs with the Nats, 2 years $28 million, with a vesting 3rd year option at another $14MM.

I really hate it when Boras ends up being right.

[sterlingice]

Appeals court reinstates lawsuit over Royals’ hot dog toss - KansasCity.com

Originally Posted by story

"A jury ruled in March 2011 for the Royals, finding that being struck by airborne groceries was an inherent risk that Coomer assumed by buying a ticket."

“The risk of being hit in the face by a hot dog is not a well-known incidental risk of attending a baseball game,” the court ruled. “Consequently, a plaintiff may not be said to have consented to, and voluntarily assumed, the risk by attending the game.”


The appeals court said the trial judge erred when he instructed jurors that if Coomer had accepted the risk, the Royals could not be held liable for his injuries.

The hot dog drama lives on. Hey, juries get a bad rap but they probably had this one right and it was reversed by a judge. How in the world did you get a detached retina from being hit by a hot dog? If you did, you must have been sitting pretty close to the mascot and, for the love of god, why weren't you paying attention.

Then again, if it had been up in the cheap seats, everyone would have been paying attention and screaming for a hot dog. But they rarely go up there.

SI

[stevew]

Soriano got 2years at $7m each and the vesting option will be easy to duck. Mariano barely ever finishes 60games in 2 consecutive years. Then Soriano gets 2m/year from like 2018-2025. Scotty saved his own ass, but I wonder if he will play chicken like this again.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Appeals court reinstates lawsuit over Royals’ hot dog toss - KansasCity.com



The hot dog drama lives on. Hey, juries get a bad rap but they probably had this one right and it was reversed by a judge. How in the world did you get a detached retina from being hit by a hot dog? If you did, you must have been sitting pretty close to the mascot and, for the love of god, why weren't you paying attention.

Then again, if it had been up in the cheap seats, everyone would have been paying attention and screaming for a hot dog. But they rarely go up there.

SI

He should count his lucky stars. In Philly, getting hit in the face by a hot dog has an entirely different meaning. Because it would be a penis.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

Soriano got 2years at $7m each and the vesting option will be easy to duck. Mariano barely ever finishes 60games in 2 consecutive years. Then Soriano gets 2m/year from like 2919-2025. Scotty saved his own ass, but I wonder if he will play chicken like this again.

It's silly because money paid in 2018-2025 is still money owed, tho not quite as much.

SI

[Subby]

Originally Posted by stevew

Soriano got 2years at $7m each and the vesting option will be easy to duck. Mariano barely ever finishes 60games in 2 consecutive years. Then Soriano gets 2m/year from like 2919-2025. Scotty saved his own ass, but I wonder if he will play chicken like this again.

You mean 2 years at 14m each, right?

Vesting option won't happen. Not only is it hard to finish 60 games two seasons in a row, Davey likes to do a Closer A and Closer B thing to keep his guys fresh.

The money means nothing though. Huge signing for the Nats. I thought their bullpen was their Achilles heel last season and this is a nice improvement.

[Logan]

Oh boy. A bored person could probably have a lot of fun with the search function and Subby's "the money means nothing" quote.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Logan

Oh boy. A bored person could probably have a lot of fun with the search function and Subby's "the money means nothing" quote.

In this case it doesn't, right? No luxury tax implications, deep pocketed owner, set at every position.

[molson]

In his new book, Francona says that Red Sox ownership implored him to win in "a more exciting manner" to help TV ratings. That's kind of theme generally, about the focus of ownership. And also that to this day he's not sure if he quit or was fired.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Subby

You mean 2 years at 14m each, right?

Vesting option won't happen. Not only is it hard to finish 60 games two seasons in a row, Davey likes to do a Closer A and Closer B thing to keep his guys fresh.

The money means nothing though. Huge signing for the Nats. I thought their bullpen was their Achilles heel last season and this is a nice improvement.

It's an average of 14, but it's paid out over a long period of time because Boras was delusional to think that anyone would give Soriano 14m/year in 2013 dollars.

Not a bad deal for the Nats, but a questionable one for Boras.

[stevew]

Mike Morse can kiss his free agent contract goodbye.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by stevew

Mike Morse can kiss his free agent contract goodbye.

Morse deal makes no sense for Seattle
January, 16, 2013
JAN 16
10:07 PM ET

The Washington Nationals, Oakland Athletics and Seattle Mariners pulled off a three-team deal Wednesday evening, which featured Michael Morse heading to Seattle, John Jaso going to Oakland, and pitching prospects A.J. Cole, Blake Treinen and a player to be named moving to Washington.

The Nats came out way ahead, the A's made a modest gain, and the M's leave me scratching my head at why they'd ask for change for a five-dollar bill and be happy with three singles.

Morse had a .910 OPS in 2011, but a .791 mark last season.
The Nationals move a player for whom they had no use, and to whom they would have paid $6.75 million just to sit on the bench. The acquisition of Denard Span earlier this winter plus the re-signing of Adam LaRoche put the oft-injured, twice-suspended-for-PEDs Morse on the outside looking in, with one year left until he was due to hit free agency.

For one year of Morse's services, they reacquired right-handeders Cole and Treinen, as well as a player to be named. Cole started the year in the high Class A California League and was so bad that the A's demoted him to the low Class A Midwest League, which he dominated for the second year in a row; he struggled with his arm slot earlier in the year, dropping down and losing some velocity as a result, but was better in the second half.

Treinen has a live arm but has some history of injuries dating back to his days at South Dakota State, and probably projects better in the bullpen given the lack of life on his fastball. He did finish in relief in high-A after scuffling as a starter earlier in 2012, throwing more than enough strikes but giving up too much hard contact. The Nats' farm system was nearly wiped out after a series of trades, a couple of promotions, and a 2012 draft that put most of the team's eggs in one (very good) basket, so this is a nice depth-building move for a player who didn't fit their roster any longer.

(Incidentally, readers asked for my thoughts on their deal with Rafael Soriano; he's a very good short reliever, but $14 million for a reliever who's never been worth more than 2 WAR and probably can't hold up for 70 innings a year is way too steep. I also wouldn't give up the 31st overall pick, as the Nats did, to sign a reliever, especially since their pen was already a strength. But Soriano is pretty low-risk as relievers go, at least in terms of performance on the field.)

The A's gave up some prospect depth, although they are still deep in pitching throughout the organization, especially in the majors, and get a part-time DH who can serve as the backup catcher, with a strong history of getting on base dating back to the minors. Jaso has a career .368 OBP against right-handed pitchers in the big leagues, with only moderate power that isn't going to look any better with 81 home games in Oakland.

The A's primary DH from 2012, Jonny Gomes, is gone, and they didn't have a replacement on the roster capable of getting on base at a decent clip. Jaso has three years remaining of team control and could allow them to avoid wasting a roster spot on a player who can only serve as the second-string catcher, a huge advantage in the era of 12-man pitching staffs. Cole's a pretty high price to pay for Jaso, but he didn't exactly help his value in 2012.

The Mariners, however, come out on the short end of the stick. They give up three years of Jaso for one of Morse, and will pay Morse handsomely even though he missed large chunks of three of the past five seasons due to injury. Morse is a very limited player, best suited to DH duty or first base, with a poor overall approach at the plate -- he's a dead fastball hitter, and has been his whole career outside of the anomalous 2011 season, with consistently mediocre walk rates. He does have above-average raw power, probably more like plus when he's completely healthy, and Seattle has a pretty desperate need for right-handed power, enough that, rather than getting better players, they figured they'd just move the left-center fence in about 15 feet.

Even if you're an optimist on Morse and figured Jaso's playing time would be limited with all the first base/DH types already on the roster, the probable upgrade here for Seattle isn't more than an extra win in 2013 -- and Jaso will make up for that with what he delivers in 2014-15, while likely earning little more over the three years than Morse will earn this year. It's just not a great use of their assets, and doesn't fill a critical need for a club that has lots of fringy DH types on the roster.

[stevew]

I didn't know Morse was a 2 time offender.

[BishopMVP]

Red Sox/Napoli deal finalized (I think) as 1 year/$5mil base, "incentives" that could push it up to $13mil. I assume those are all playing time based, but no official word yet.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Red Sox/Napoli deal finalized (I think) as 1 year/$5mil base, "incentives" that could push it up to $13mil. I assume those are all playing time based, but no official word yet.

Wow, why would Napoli agree to that? He shoulda just walked away and got a real deal somewhere else.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Wow, why would Napoli agree to that? He shoulda just walked away and got a real deal somewhere else.

There must have been something really bad from his physical. They had agreed to $39/3 years before they checked him out. (and part of the delay was based on him getting second and third opinions on the physical - he must have come to the same conclusion that he was damaged goods and didn't have more value elsewhere).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by molson

There must have been something really bad from his physical. They had agreed to $39/3 years before they checked him out. (and part of the delay was based on him getting second and third opinions on the physical - he must have come to the same conclusion that he was damaged goods and didn't have more value elsewhere).

To drop from $39 M guaranteed to $5 M, that must be one hell of a lot of damage. Which makes me wonder the, why the Red Sox stayed with it.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Subby

In this case it doesn't, right? No luxury tax implications, deep pocketed owner, set at every position.

loosing the pick matters though... gotta keep the dynasty stocked.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

To drop from $39 M guaranteed to $5 M, that must be one hell of a lot of damage. Which makes me wonder the, why the Red Sox stayed with it.

Best I can figure, he has a hip condition that could give out completely 2 days from now, 2 years from now or 10 years from now (and probably precludes him from catching at all). Reportedly the Rangers did offer more $$ on a 1 year deal, but he'll get more AB's and a more defined role in Boston.

As far as the RS staying with it, I think a lot of it was all the other options disappearing or having a prospect cost. I don't even think guys like Laroche or Morse were any better, but with them gone it was sign Casey Kotchman, try and trade for Justin Smoak, or just give the starting job to Mauro Gomez.

[stevew]

Francisco Liriano is having issues with his deal, and still hasn't signed due to some medical condition.

I'm liking the Yankees stockpiling picks here. 3 total first rounders this year. Perhaps 3-4 next year if Cano/Granderson/Hughes all bolt with QOs.

[CraigSca]

Earl Weaver died last night

[Suicane75]

He always loved those big cocksuckers who could hit the fucking ball out of the ballpark. RIP Earl.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pretty lengthy (and good) obit on Earl Weaver. May he rest in peace.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1243096

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Earl Weaver died last night

9 years old when divisional play started and a Twins fan (moved to Cubs with advent of DH and of course cheap ass Calvin Griffith) so absolutely hated the Orioles and Weaver.

The kind of hate though that comes from respecting how good a manager he was and how good his teams were. Earl was the type of guy you wish your team had.

RIP Earl.

[Peregrine]

Damn we lose Earl Weaver and Stan Musial in one day - sad day for baseball.

[RedKingGold]

Phillies sign Delmon Young to a one-year, 750k deal.

It's a low risk maneuver that could pay dividends (a la Juan Pierre last year), but also much more likely to kill the clubhouse.

[MrBug708]

Rumor going around that the Dodgers TV deal will be 7 years, 7 billion dollars

[Comey]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Phillies sign Delmon Young to a one-year, 750k deal.

It's a low risk maneuver that could pay dividends (a la Juan Pierre last year), but also much more likely to kill the clubhouse.

Don't care for the deal at all, really.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Rumor going around that the Dodgers TV deal will be 7 years, 7 billion dollars

7 years? You mean, like...17 years, right? 27 years?