Its' Here! NHL 2007-2008 Regular Season Thread

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Chief Rum, as soon as somebody finds some kind of proof of somebody burning his kid's crib I'll gladly eat crow.

Now, comparing him to a rape victim is certainly an interesting way to look at things...but I think I can see where you're coming from.

The Oilers bought him the most expensive tight dress they could find. They wined and dined him at the fanciest restaurant in town. And, they introduced him to all of their friends. He looks like he's having a great time and even tells several people that in fact our observations are, indeed, correct. But, even before the appetizers come he gets up to go to the washroom to freshen up and doesn't come back. Instead a waiter hands a note scribbled on a napkin to whoever is buying that says:

"Thanks for the dress, cya!!"

A year goes by without seeing the dress they spent so much money on when suddenly the owner of that dress files rape charges stating that after supper that night he was raped by the Oilers and their friends. Huh? Nobody remembers seeing the dress after dinner what the hell is going on?

Is this what you meant?

I know...a little over the top...but, c'mon, a rape victim??

You didn't buy him that dress. He was an ass before he came to Edmonton, so caveat emptor. You shoulda known. And he isn't accusing the Oilers of anything. He's accusing their fans, a group you yourself acknowledge is passionate, and whom you know just completely hate him (the height of which is what right when this alleged crime would have occurred, too).

Try to get over the extremity of the analogy I made. I could just as easily say he's a crook in the past who is the victim here, but people blame him for this crime by others, because of his past.

Point is, you have no more evidence than I do (less in fact, I have Pronger's "testimony", you have, "well, where're the news reports?" blind supposition and character assassination), and you're crucifying the guy without a shred of proof. Ever heard of innocent til proven guilty? I know you're not American, but that concept can't be that foreign to you.

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Well, let's go over his brief history as an Oiler. Gets traded to the Oilers and promptly signs a big, fat, long-term contract. Shows up with a big grin on his face and tells everybody how excited he is to be playing in Canada in front of a packed house every night. Leads the Oilers to the Cup Finals with a big grin from ear to ear. The week after the Cup Finals, while the Prongers were laying on some beach, the Oilers are the last ones to know that they aren't coming back. Sites family as his reason for pulling the Oilers' collective pants down and having his way with them...prison-style.

In the end, Pronger did what he thought was best for his family. I respect that. But, the lack of character he demonstrated during his finally days in Edmonton should speak volumes to you about what kind of person he is. So, is lying or exagerrating really that far fetched? Personally, I don't think so.

Dude, honestly, read this last paragraph and what I have written before this. Do you see me propping Pronger up as some paradigm of quality character? I have flat out said I don't like the guy. I know he can be an ass. On the ice and off of it. But, once again, I'm not going to blame the victim, as you are intent on doing.

You ask me to consider Pronger's quality of character? Okay, what about your fellow Oilers fans? The ones you acknowledge have so much passion. The ones you know have come up with so much hatred and vitriol towards this guy (not without provocation, but come on, you know this runs very deep). You apparently may have even had a radio station running a "burn Pronger's furniture" feature. You have here a passionate and angry mob at the height of its hatred for a specific target, and they know where he lives, and like any large group of people, there are a few oddballs.

Now, tell me, given all that, do you really think no one from that background is capable of this? Really, johnny?

You see this cuts both ways. Pronger isn't the only one with a past. So go ahead and assume he's lying. I'll assume (with much more historical evidence) that some twisted fuck arsonist from a large group of passionate individuals might have actually committed a crime wholely within his nature instead of keeping himself under control while the person he hates most tells him "Fuck you!" and hightails it outta town with all his hopes and dreams.

[Draft Dodger]

geez CR...

[Dr. Sak]

Who is this...Chris Pronger?

[TurnerONU22]

Here's the Nash goal from last night:



EDIT: The HD video from NHL.tv has been removed for now, as it seems to have messed up the thread. Here is the URL:

http://www.nhl.tv/team/launch.htm?hl...6&event=PHX709

[Fidatelo]

That goal is fucking sweet!!

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I can just see the image of a saddened Chris Pronger walking aimlessly through the charred wreckage of his beloved furniture, eyes glazed over in disbelief muttering, "How? How could this have happened? Who... Who would have done such a... No," he spots the charred remains of something that looks like a crib.

He wanders closer, stepping over the charred remains of one of his baby's beloved teddy bears and half-melted photo from his wedding. "No..." Yes. There it is, the charred remains of his baby's crib. Pronger falls to his knees, grasping for the burnt and shattered remains of the very bed his babe once slept so peacefully on.

"Noooooooooo!!!!" He belows into the brutally cold, uncaringly clear Edmonton night sky...

Ha. Isn't this the opening sequence of Max Payne?

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Point is, you have no more evidence than I do (less in fact, I have Pronger's "testimony", you have, "well, where're the news reports?" blind supposition and character assassination), and you're crucifying the guy without a shred of proof. Ever heard of innocent til proven guilty? I know you're not American, but that concept can't be that foreign to you.

Hold on here, Pronger is the one pointing the finger and accusing the Oilers' fans of burning his kid's crib...aren't the fans supposed to be "innocent until proven guilty" and not the other way around? All the "evidence" you have is uncorroborated heresay from Pronger himself and the fact that the fans are passionate. Not much of a case if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You ask me to consider Pronger's quality of character? Okay, what about your fellow Oilers fans? The ones you acknowledge have so much passion. The ones you know have come up with so much hatred and vitriol towards this guy (not without provocation, but come on, you know this runs very deep). You apparently may have even had a radio station running a "burn Pronger's furniture" feature. You have here a passionate and angry mob at the height of its hatred for a specific target, and they know where he lives, and like any large group of people, there are a few oddballs.

Now, tell me, given all that, do you really think no one from that background is capable of this? Really, johnny?

I've acknowledged all along that this could very well have happened because everybody knows that there are fanatics of all sorts out there...no city is without them. But, I don't take everything people say for gospel especially from a guy who has gone out of his way to alienate himself from the fans of...I believe he said he gets booed in about 20 arenas. I use the sniff test...if is smells like bullshit...it probaby is bullshit. And, maybe being at the eye of the storm means the smell is much stronger, I don't know.

[Simms]

http://www.canada.com/topics/sports/...6-ce704477d572

Key passages:

Pronger could not be reached for comment, but his agent, Pat Morris, said that in the summer of 2006, they read about an Edmonton radio station buying the furniture, then having people pay to come out to a bonfire and burn it, with the proceeds going to charity.


"If that stuff happened, that's ridiculous," Morris said of the alleged bonfire. "If it didn't happen, the rumours and innuendo, that's what got back to Chris."

While in Edmonton, Pronger rented much of his furniture from Insta-Rent.
All of it was returned in immaculate condition, none of it burned, including the crib, said Ken King, who was then vice-president of the Edmonton furniture rental company.

The most likely scenario is that an Edmonton radio station heard about Pronger's rental furniture being returned, then joked on air about buying the furniture and burning it, Griffiths said.

[johnnyshaka]

Thanks, Simms.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Simms

http://www.canada.com/topics/sports/...6-ce704477d572

Key passages:

While it gives more credence to Pronger not investigating this fully, nothing in the article disproves the possibility that what Pronger said was true.

That said, this only confirms Pronger is very likely continuing to be a complete ass.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That said, this only confirms Pronger is very likely continuing to be a complete ass.

Agreed.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Crosby with the dreaded high ankle sprain. For now out indefinitely, but looking like 4 weeks. He didn't make the trip after the TB game last night to Montreal for tonight's game.

So...now can we get Malkin into the ASG?

[Dr. Sak]

They way he went down and had to get carried off the ice, it looked a lot worse than a high ankle sprain. At least he will be back playing again this year.

[Suburban Rhythm]

DOLA

Yesterday (1/18) was the 50th anniversary of Willie O'Ree becoming the first black player in the NHL.

Article I was reading said: 52 TOTAL black players in NHL history, 14 currently.

I can come up with about about 6 right away...Laraque, Grier, Daley, Emery, Iginla, Mayers. And there are some I don't know if they count as "current" like Anthony Stewart and Shawn Belle, as I don't think they are NHL regulars at this point. And old guys I am pretty certain are no longer current - Kevin Weekes, JL Grand-Piere, Anson Carter (pretty sure he's overseas) - but they may be on a roster somewhere.

ETA - What about Peter Worrell, he anywhere? I know his twin Andreas Lilja is still around.

[johnnyshaka]

Brashear is another.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Brashear is another.

Shoulda had that one!

I am sure there is another obvious one or 2 I am missing

[Pyser]

weekes is still on the devils.

johnny oduya is black, too, on the devs.

[Cringer]

I am kind of pissed. I think about 80% of these posts should have used the spoiler tag. Have some respect for those of us who are waiting until summer before we watch this season of hockey.

Spoiler

Sorry, I am venting my hate of spoiler tags for a second

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Pyser

weekes is still on the devils.

johnny oduya is black, too, on the devs.

Didn't realize Weekes was still around...backup G in NJ is the worst job in sports, isn't it?

Oduya...would not have guessed him. But he is on this list:

http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com...ck-hockey.html

How did I forget Roman Ndur!?!?!?!?!

[Maple Leafs]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=227906&hubname=nhl

Sources: Ferguson's tenure as GM over

TSN.ca Staff
1/22/2008 8:46:26 AM

John Ferguson Jr.'s tenure as general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs looks as though it is coming to an end.

Sources tell TSN the Maple Leafs board of directors met on Monday and decided to make a change. A formal announcement is expected today.

Despite the fact the team has been on a bit of a roll lately with a 3-1 record in its last four games, the rumour mill has continued to churn concerning Ferguson's fate.

It's still possible that Cliff Fletcher - set to return from his vacation in Mexico - could become the team's interim general manager.

The Leafs contacted a number of hockey management types last week to gauge their interest in the job and asked Fletcher if he was interested in taking over for the rest of the 2007-08 campaign.

Fletcher, a Montreal native and Hockey Hall of Famer, was GM of the Leafs from 1991 to 1997.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I saw a report that Crosby could be out up to 8 weeks with the ankle injury.

That's a long time. It will be interesting to see if the Penguins can make the playoffs without him. This could work in the team's favor. If they can pull it together, make the playoffs, and then get Crosby back a week or two before they being, that'd be quite a boost.

[NoSkillz]

Fletcher back as Leafs GM huh? Talk about desperation just to get fans off their backs.

What do Brandon Convery, Kenny Jonsson, Landon Wilson, Eric Fichaud and Jeff Ware have in common?

They were the first round picks Fletcher made during his tenure. Jonsson was the only one who made an impact in the NHL.

Three of the years they didn't even have first round picks due to trading out. Their top picks in those years (1991, 1996 & 1997)? Yanic Perreault (best of the bunch without doubt), Marek Posmyk and Jeff Farkas.

Man...I suppose it can't get much worse than Ferguson but unless Fletcher has updated blackmail material on the current batch of GMs, I don't see him pulling off any robberies like he did in the Gilmour trade from Calgary or the Grant Fuhr trade to Buffalo.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I saw a report that Crosby could be out up to 8 weeks with the ankle injury.

That's a long time. It will be interesting to see if the Penguins can make the playoffs without him. This could work in the team's favor. If they can pull it together, make the playoffs, and then get Crosby back a week or two before they being, that'd be quite a boost.

What the Pens should do is just tank the rest of the season. That way they can get another high draft pick to go along with Crosby, Malkin, and Staal. Plus they need to stockpile these young stars to replace the other ones they won't be able to re-sign in a few years.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

DOLA

Yesterday (1/18) was the 50th anniversary of Willie O'Ree becoming the first black player in the NHL.

Article I was reading said: 52 TOTAL black players in NHL history, 14 currently.

I can come up with about about 6 right away...Laraque, Grier, Daley, Emery, Iginla, Mayers. And there are some I don't know if they count as "current" like Anthony Stewart and Shawn Belle, as I don't think they are NHL regulars at this point. And old guys I am pretty certain are no longer current - Kevin Weekes, JL Grand-Piere, Anson Carter (pretty sure he's overseas) - but they may be on a roster somewhere.

ETA - What about Peter Worrell, he anywhere? I know his twin Andreas Lilja is still around.

Has anyone mentioned Tony McKegney?

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by NoSkillz

Fletcher back as Leafs GM huh? Talk about desperation just to get fans off their backs.

Agreed. The MLSE would've been much better served to have canned Ferguson in the offseason and avoided all of this altogether.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

What the Pens should do is just tank the rest of the season. That way they can get another high draft pick to go along with Crosby, Malkin, and Staal. Plus they need to stockpile these young stars to replace the other ones they won't be able to re-sign in a few years.

Did you miss the earlier part of this decade when they did this?

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Has anyone mentioned Tony McKegney?

He was trying to list the 14 current players. I don't think Tony should be on that list.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

He was trying to list the 14 current players. I don't think Tony should be on that list.

My mistake. Carry on.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Did you miss the earlier part of this decade when they did this?

The Pens will be hard pressed to hold onto Malkin, Crosby, Staal, Whitney, and Fleury after their contracts expire in the next few years. So I guess they need to just keep doing what they do best: play like crap, get a top #5 draft pick, and suck some more after the pick leaves in a few years. Hmmm....sounds a lot like the Florida Marlins.

[Dr. Sak]

Well Crosby and Whitney are locked up for a good part of the foreseeable future. I don't think Staal will demand as much money as people projected after his year last year. He has cooled off.

Malkin will get a good bit, I'd say around 5.5 to 7 per in today's standards and I think the jury is still out on Fleury. Like you said it could be rough, but I think they could do it. Hopefully (for them) when the new arena comes, it will increase their revenue stream and allow them to spend a lot closer to the cap than they are now.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Well Crosby and Whitney are locked up for a good part of the foreseeable future. I don't think Staal will demand as much money as people projected after his year last year. He has cooled off.

Malkin will get a good bit, I'd say around 5.5 to 7 per in today's standards and I think the jury is still out on Fleury. Like you said it could be rough, but I think they could do it. Hopefully (for them) when the new arena comes, it will increase their revenue stream and allow them to spend a lot closer to the cap than they are now.

So the arena deal is for sure then? I have never been to the Igloo, but my dad has and he said it was a dive. Not to mention that a professional team, regardless of the sport, should NEVER rent a stadium in my opinion. That is soooo minor league. The Pens definately need some new digs.

Also, I thought Crosby was only signed for this year and next. Did they add some years or what?

[johnnyshaka]

He's locked up for a few more years, RG.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=213216&hubname

[Dr. Sak]

Yeah they are getting the arena. They are going to be getting revenue from parking and concessions that they weren't getting before and that should really help the team. It should be completed by the 2010 season.

Crosby just signed a 8.5 million per year that runs out in 2013.

[Travis]

Don't forget that then Pens also had Esposito fall to them in this past draft that could make up (assuming they can get him to live up to his potential) for losing one of their current guys.

[duff88]

Originally Posted by Travis

Don't forget that then Pens also had Esposito fall to them in this past draft that could make up (assuming they can get him to live up to his potential) for losing one of their current guys.

Esposito is way overrated; there's a reason why he fell in the draft, hasn't made the WJC championship in three attempts and has yet to live up to his reputation even at the junior level.

Nicklas Bäckström has scored 8 assists in the last two games!

[Dr. Sak]

Pens fans can now stop crying conspiracy...

Evgeni Malkin will replace Sidney Crosby in the All Star game this weekend.

[Dr. Sak]

Dola...

Crosby is out 6 to 8 weeks.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=227909&hubname=

[MikeVic]

So, what will Fletcher do now?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Dola...

Crosby is out 6 to 8 weeks.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=227909&hubname=

I wonder if Crosby is going to be another Mario Lemieux. I always felt that Lemieux was a better player than Gretzky, but he played on some so-so to downright bad teams, and he was hurt a lot the last half of his career. For the sake of hockey in Pittsburgh and for the NHL, I hope Crosby is not injury prone.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Wow...I didn't realize there was a Penguins lovefest going on here and I was missing it.

To comment on everything above -

Staal won't be getting nearly the $ people felt he would. Same for Fleruy. Heading into the season, both could have solidified big paydays, but Fleury has been shaky (and now injured) and Staal nowhere near the player he was last season (where, admittedly, he caught a bunch of people off guard, not so this season).

Crosby is actually signed for $8.7 a year beginning next season. Still on the 3rd year of his entry level deal.


Espo will play on the wing here. He doesn't need to be "the guy" here. Hell, he doesn't even need to ride shotgun here.

Malkin has exploded the past 2 games since Crosby's injury. He was clearly the best player on the ice in Montreal Saturday night. I would be ecstatic to get him at $5.5M! Think closer to $8M. Heatley got $7.7 I think. The fear would be someone offers him a bloated RFA deal. But that can't happen until July 2009. Pens will do everything they can to lock him up in July 2008.

Crosby is hardly injury prone. This is the first extended time he'll miss in his career. And he plays a much more physical game than Lemieux played. Crosby doesn't absorb hits, he initiates them. Think Forsberg.

Whitney has been a disappointment this year. But at $4M, he'll be a bargain at the end of that deal (5 more seasons after this) if he regains his form of last season.

Calling the arena a dive...is an insult to other dives! Where my seats are, I look up, and see exposed wirings, covered with about 2 inches of dust, hanging out of the walls.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by NoSkillz

Fletcher back as Leafs GM huh? Talk about desperation just to get fans off their backs.

What do Brandon Convery, Kenny Jonsson, Landon Wilson, Eric Fichaud and Jeff Ware have in common?

They were the first round picks Fletcher made during his tenure. Jonsson was the only one who made an impact in the NHL.

Not sure what this has to do with anything, since they'll likely have the new GM in place before the draft. Fletcher is here to trade the veterans for youth, something he was very successful at in his first run with the Leafs (although in hindsight he didn't do it enough).

[Maple Leafs]

Thought this was funny:
http://www.hockeydrunk.com/hockey/if...-a-high-school

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by NoSkillz

Fletcher back as Leafs GM huh? Talk about desperation just to get fans off their backs.

What do Brandon Convery, Kenny Jonsson, Landon Wilson, Eric Fichaud and Jeff Ware have in common?

They were the first round picks Fletcher made during his tenure. Jonsson was the only one who made an impact in the NHL.

Three of the years they didn't even have first round picks due to trading out. Their top picks in those years (1991, 1996 & 1997)? Yanic Perreault (best of the bunch without doubt), Marek Posmyk and Jeff Farkas.

Man...I suppose it can't get much worse than Ferguson but unless Fletcher has updated blackmail material on the current batch of GMs, I don't see him pulling off any robberies like he did in the Gilmour trade from Calgary or the Grant Fuhr trade to Buffalo.

Landon Wilson had a great 20 game run for the Pens in 2003. OK, great by Landon Wilson standards. Didn't he have some kind of freak eye injury (stick?puck?) early on?

[duff88]

I feel the need to brag; the Canucks may have the Sedin twins, well the Kostitsyn bros have arrived in Montreal!

Andrei scores against Washington

Andrei scores against Atlanta

Andrei to Sergei against the Rangers

Sergei hits David Krejci

Sergei hits David Krejci again, fights Chuck Kobasew

Last 21 games:
Andrei Kostitsyn - 21GP - 11G - 10A - 21PTS
Sergei Kostitsyn - 18GP - 3G - 7A - 10PTS

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Thought this was funny:
http://www.hockeydrunk.com/hockey/if...-a-high-school

That was hilarious! It was right on with most of the cities.

[Wolfpack]

I give up trying to figure out Carolina anymore. They play superb defense in a pair of back-to-back road games (both 1-0, a win and a loss), come home and get run off the ice by New Jersey, then cough up a three-goal lead on Colorado, lose to a collapsing Toronto, get blown out by Ottawa, then annihilate Edmonton, rally past the Isles at New York on Monday, then turn around and give up three (count 'em, three--two on one power play, even) shorties to the same Islanders last night in Raleigh and lose 6-3. If it weren't for the fact that the Southeast has reverted back to the SouthLeast this year, they'd be struggling to make the playoffs right now. Actually, they still are, since it doesn't look like more than one team from the Southeast is even going to make it anyway. At the break, they're .500 (24-24-4) and that 11-4-3 start is a really distant memory.

[Maple Leafs]

Funny (?) sidebar to the Fletcher hiring. Fans and bloggers have noticed that when Fletcher delivers his prepared remarks, Peddie's lips are moving. Nobody knows if this means that Peddie wrote Fletcher's words for him, or if he just spent so much time approving them that he had them memorized, but we all agree that he is finding new and creative ways to embarass himself.

Check below, at around the 4:45 mark and beyond.

[johnnyshaka]

Wow! That is absolutely ridiculous. Boy, is Fletcher setup to fail or what?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Pens-Flyers tonight...No Sid, No Roberts, No Ben Eager. Anyone on Philly willing to go with Laraque?

Oh...they might play hockey too.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Pens-Flyers tonight...No Sid, No Roberts, No Ben Eager. Anyone on Philly willing to go with Laraque?

Are you making excuses already

The only one I think that would fight Laraque is Cote, and I don't think he is that dumb to get his ass beat.

It will be interesting to see how the Flyers bounce back from that embarrassing 7-3 loss to NJ on Tuesday night.