Official Colts vs Pats GameDay Thread (plus that other game)

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I meant it instead of UF/OSU, not USC/TX.

Well, forget it NOW.

Well, USC/Michigan wasn't nearly as big a blowout as UF/OSU or decided as early, which is where the Indy/Pats game was headed at the time. That's the point I was trying to make. I'll quit with the analogies now.

[wade moore]

Heard on the radio that Peyton's x-rays showed now break..

*shew*...

[molson]

Originally Posted by dubb93

On the flip side, I was of course, at the game. Without a doubt the best Colts home game ever, best Colts game ever, but everything. Can't wait for the super bowl, I just wish the media would cover the Colts-Bears instead of the Pats "blowing it", like the Colts just walked into a situation where the Pats were going to blow it even if the Colts fielded a team full of high schoolers in the second half.

Colts fans are always whining about being disrespected.

[st.cronin]

I'm not sure, but I think the Pats started losing to the Colts when they cut McGinest. I miss that guy.

[kurtism]

Originally Posted by molson

Colts fans are always whining about being disrespected.

Hell, I though Rodney Harrison had the term "disrespect" trademarked...

(Indy desperately needs to get over its inferiority complex, no argument from me. We Colts fans have one hell of a fine football team, and need to focus more on that than on what the media may or may not be saying about it. Enjoy the games, enjoy the fact that you get to watch 2 surefire Hall of Famers every Sunday, and quit worrying about what some Boston homer with an ESPN column has to say!)

[molson]

Originally Posted by kurtism

(Indy desperately needs to get over its inferiority complex, no argument from me. We Colts fans have one hell of a fine football team, and need to focus more on that than on what the media may or may not be saying about it. Enjoy the games, enjoy the fact that you get to watch 2 surefire Hall of Famers every Sunday, and quit worrying about what some Boston homer with an ESPN column has to say!)

Absolutely, and with today's over-expanded leagues you really have to enjoy this, you never know if/when it'll happen again (I never thought '86 would be the last Celtics championship in 20 years).

No one (or hardly anyone) is saying the Colts didn't deserve to win, they clearly did. Even Bill Simmons, while pissed at the Pats mistakes, was very complimentary of the Colts and Manning in particular.

Is this thread the record for longest surviving game thread (in terms of lasting two days after the game itself?) I'll say this for Manning, he's a compelling character, the perfect "event" QB.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

That pass interference call (Bishop's edit - I'm assuming you're talking about the RtP call) was BS, but unfortunately was a consistent call with what we've seen this year. So while I didn't like it (solely as a football fan), it wasn't because they've let those kinds of plays go all year and shouldn't have called this one. Not to mention, Tom Brady is on record as saying this year that the refs need to do MORE to protect QBs, which is patently absurd. But apparently in his mind, that type of call should have been made anyway.

I completely agree with how the NFL is consistently going overboard with protecting QB's this year, and said as much in my first post. But unless you watched a different feed than I did, or went back on Tivo, I'm not sure how you can say it was consistent. CBS only showed one half-assed replay of it where it was hard to determine if the Patriots player (Banta-Cain?) even made contact with the head. From that quick view, it looked like much less contact to the head than an earlier play, by Colvin I believe, that probably should have been called and wasn't.

I also completely agree that the refs/NFL should protect Tom Brady more while protecting our opponent's QB's less.

Originally Posted by dubb93

Nevermind the fact that the Pats dynasty was actually over before this game was played, and the Colts have beaten the Pats twice in a row prior to this game, both times in Foxboro.

It's nice to know that we're getting the credit for being a dynasty now that it's ostensibly over (we'll see if TroyF agrees with that ) but I fail to see how going 12-4, winning our division and coming one play away from our 4th Super Bowl in 6 years means that dynasty is over. Especially if you consider that most of our starters (Harrison {injured the past 2 years anyway}, Dillon {already have Maroney as his replacement}, and the ILB's {hopefully we can manage to sign Adalius Thomas or Lance Briggs} and Matt Light being the exceptions) are still in their prime, we only have 2 FA's of note (Samuel/Daniel Graham), an extra 1st round pick (+ more if we franchise Samuel/Graham and they leave) and a very good cap situation going forward. Contrast that to your own team, which has Ryan Lilja, Freeney, Cato June, Rob Morris, Jason David and Nick Harper, maybe Dominic Rhodes as FA's after the season and is already close to, if not over the projected cap for next year.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I completely agree with how the NFL is consistently going overboard with protecting QB's this year, and said as much in my first post. But unless you watched a different feed than I did, or went back on Tivo, I'm not sure how you can say it was consistent. CBS only showed one half-assed replay of it where it was hard to determine if the Patriots player (Banta-Cain?) even made contact with the head. From that quick view, it looked like much less contact to the head than an earlier play, by Colvin I believe, that probably should have been called and wasn't.

As a Colts fan, and more specifically a Manning fan, I have to agree with Kornheiser on PTI.. to paraphrase: I'm not sure that Manning even knows he was touched.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by wade moore

As a Colts fan, and more specifically a Manning fan, I have to agree with Kornheiser on PTI.. to paraphrase: I'm not sure that Manning even knows he was touched.

My favorite (after the fact since we won) was when I think Wilfork was called for RtP because he was pushed/fell to the ground and the QB (Pennington maybe) tripped over a prone, face-down Wilfork.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

My favorite (after the fact since we won) was when I think Wilfork was called for RtP because he was pushed/fell to the ground and the QB (Pennington maybe) tripped over a prone, face-down Wilfork.

Nice.

Yeah.. the over-protecting of the QB is one of the worst things to happen to the NFL in recent years. I understand why they are doing it, but as I've heard multiple linemen say - when you can essentially only touch the QB's stomache, it really limits you as a player.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Nice.

Yeah.. the over-protecting of the QB is one of the worst things to happen to the NFL in recent years. I understand why they are doing it, but as I've heard multiple linemen say - when you can essentially only touch the QB's stomache, it really limits you as a player.

We also had a play against Jacksonville where someone (Jarvis Green?) had Maurice Jones-Drew wrapped up, then let him go because he didn't want to get called for unneccessary roughness, officials hadn't blown the whistle and MJ-D ran 80 yards for a TD.

That's why I love the SEC. The one conference that stood out to me this year as not calling bogus/borderline unnecessary roughness/late hit/Roughing the Passer calls.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

We also had a play against Jacksonville where someone (Jarvis Green?) had Maurice Jones-Drew wrapped up, then let him go because he didn't want to get called for unneccessary roughness, officials hadn't blown the whistle and MJ-D ran 80 yards for a TD.

That's why I love the SEC. The one conference that stood out to me this year as not calling bogus/borderline unnecessary roughness/late hit/Roughing the Passer calls.

Well, the Titans play is really the true bar for this - I don't know that you can compare someone doing this with a RB as I don't see any rampant problems with over-protecting RB's.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Well, the Titans play is really the true bar for this - I don't know that you can compare someone doing this with a RB as I don't see any rampant problems with over-protecting RB's.

I didn't see the Titans game.

A better example of the in the grasp/scared to take down a QB example might be Kiwanuka of the Giants. I'm sure every team in the league has a story or two, and I think the rules committee should look at this closely in the offseason. Maybe they even have to add in a second level of Personal Foul/Pass Interference, where it's only 5 yards and no automatic 1st down. Although I'm sure everyone (including me) will complain about calls regardless.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I didn't see the Titans game.

A better example of the in the grasp/scared to take down a QB example might be Kiwanuka of the Giants. I'm sure every team in the league has a story or two, and I think the rules committee should look at this closely in the offseason. Maybe they even have to add in a second level of Personal Foul/Pass Interference, where it's only 5 yards and no automatic 1st down. Although I'm sure everyone (including me) will complain about calls regardless.

Yeah, I think the Kiwanuka play is what I'm talking about? It was someone on Vince Young where they had him wrapped up, let go, and he gets the game winning TD.

Something like that.

Anyway, we're agreeing .

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Yeah, I think the Kiwanuka play is what I'm talking about? It was someone on Vince Young where they had him wrapped up, let go, and he gets the game winning TD.

Something like that.

Oh my bad, I thought you were referring to the Pats-Titans Week 17 Personal Foul-fest. We're definitely thinking of the same play here.

Anyway, we're agreeing .

Between this and our love of the A-10 we're practically soul mates.

[miami_fan]

Bring back the in the grasp rule with an emphasis on blowing the whistle too early as opposed to too late. The QBs will be well protected while the defensive players have to balance the ever-moving line between hitting the QB too soft and hitting the QB too hard.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Between this and our love of the A-10 we're practically soul mates.

If you just liked CAA Basketball instead of (I'm guessing) A-10 Basketball .

[stevew]

Here we go...finally the Brady acknowledging Manning pic. I'm sorry I doubted Brady, the boy is all class.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by stevew

Here we go...finally the Brady acknowledging Manning pic. I'm sorry I doubted Brady, the boy is all class.

Anyone else see Saturday and have the little "My Buddy" commercial in their head?

[Kodos]

"Who's the choker now, CHUMP?!"

[stevew]

The hand pushing on Brady's back is kind of funny.

"Cmon Tom, you gotta go say Good Game"
"I don't wanna!"

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by wade moore

If you just liked CAA Basketball instead of (I'm guessing) A-10 Basketball .

At least y'all get more than one bid to the tournament these days. (And the football is technically CAA now. Linda Bruno is the worst commissioner in history. Bud Selig's got nothing on her.)

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

At least y'all get more than one bid to the tournament these days. (And the football is technically CAA now. Linda Bruno is the worst commissioner in history. Bud Selig's got nothing on her.)

True on all accounts.

[INDalltheway]

Who is going to be the thread killer???

[Noble_Platypus]

My vote is Tom Brady, with an INT late.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Linda Bruno is the worst commissioner in history.

Quoted for truth.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Quoted for truth.

Thankfully I don't have to deal with her anymore and Tom Yeager I think is a very good Commisioner.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Quoted for truth.

To continue the weirdest Page 15 threadjack in history, how's your team looking this year? The game @Dayton is probably the toughest left on our schedule (@SJU and @Charlotte up there too) and there's some wishful thinking on UMass fans part that we can lose only 1-2 games the rest of the way and potentially get an at-large berth even without any good OOC wins other than @Louisville.

If we don't do it this year, next year could be ugly, despite our great backcourt and wing players, because we'll have all freshmen and Luke Bonner in the middle.

[Desnudo]

After nearly a week I'm over it. Congrats to the Colts, I thought it was a fantastic game. No controversy, just a great game.

I was happy that the Pats made it that far. If you ignore all the hype about the game and look at who they lined up with, I'm more than happy they made it that far.

Their weaknesses were exposed in the end and it happens. Now we have a real rivalry for as long as Manning and Brady are QBs. I look forward to it.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I think we were doomed when for stretches of the second half, the Pats fielded a defensive lineup featuring LB Eric Alexander, DL Mike Wright, LB Tully Banta-Cain, NB Ray Mickens, S Artrell Hawkins and S Rashad Baker. Huh? I'm starting to think we should be surprised we were 4 yards away from winning that game.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

To continue the weirdest Page 15 threadjack in history, how's your team looking this year? The game @Dayton is probably the toughest left on our schedule (@SJU and @Charlotte up there too) and there's some wishful thinking on UMass fans part that we can lose only 1-2 games the rest of the way and potentially get an at-large berth even without any good OOC wins other than @Louisville.

If we don't do it this year, next year could be ugly, despite our great backcourt and wing players, because we'll have all freshmen and Luke Bonner in the middle.

They're horrible. UD just lost to Duquesne on the road (RPI of somewhere around 250). They pretty much torpedoed any hopes they had of postseason action right there. We have some players, but the hardcore fan base has about had it with our coach, Brian Gregory. None of the players ever seem to improve, and we always play down to the level of lesser competition, but never seem to be able to play up to a tough opponent (witness, blowouts at the hands of Pitt and UNC that were not close after the first 5 minutes).

We have forward Chris Wright, a top 100 player, coming in next year, along with a Wisconsin transfer and 2 other fairly decent recruits. Needless to say, I think next year is the make or break for Gregory... he will finally have some talent at the point, at the wings, and down low. Will he be able to make it work?

[Greyroofoo]

PING Edgerrin James:

How's Arizona these days?

[Logan]

[Edge]It's warm and I have a pile of money. I'm doing just fine.[/Edge]




People seriously overvalue the "play for a winner" aspect of the NFL.

[Galaril]

So, to pull this back to he original. I hate to mention , knowing what might occur. But the NFL has announced they screwed up the Ellis Hobbs interference call which gave the colts 1 and goal at the 1 when the score was Pats 2113 in the end of the 3rd quarter. That was a game changing drive and that play was a 3rd down. So that is a 5 point swing.Wow.....
And I am not a PATS FAN SO NO BIAS HERE.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Galaril

So, to pull this back to he original. I hate to mention , knowing what might occur. But the NFL has announced they screwed up the Ellis Hobbs interference call which gave the colts 1 and goal at the 1 when the score was Pats 2113 in the end of the 3rd quarter. That was a game changing drive and that play was a 3rd down. So that is a 5 point swing.Wow.....
And I am not a PATS FAN SO NO BIAS HERE.

Is that the faceguarding one where he didn't turn around? I thought that was a penalty.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Galaril

So, to pull this back to he original. I hate to mention , knowing what might occur. But the NFL has announced they screwed up the Ellis Hobbs interference call which gave the colts 1 and goal at the 1 when the score was Pats 2113 in the end of the 3rd quarter. That was a game changing drive and that play was a 3rd down. So that is a 5 point swing.Wow.....
And I am not a PATS FAN SO NO BIAS HERE.

Link?

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Galaril

So, to pull this back to he original. I hate to mention , knowing what might occur. But the NFL has announced they screwed up the Ellis Hobbs interference call which gave the colts 1 and goal at the 1 when the score was Pats 2113 in the end of the 3rd quarter. That was a game changing drive and that play was a 3rd down. So that is a 5 point swing.Wow.....
And I am not a PATS FAN SO NO BIAS HERE.

As I said, right after the game, it hurt and was a horrible call, but when you're up 21-3 before halftime, and you lose, it's your own fault.

[Galaril]

Ok so after seeing this I realize it was hearsay from a Jaguar blogger that talked to an referee league offical about the call. So it is an unbiased account at all. Leave it to the local homer media here to dig this obscure "evidence" up to explain why they lost as opposed to admitting the better to team won.
http://www.jaguars.com/news/Article.aspx?id=5812

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Ok so after seeing this I realize it was hearsay from a Jaguar blogger that talked to an referee league offical about the call. So it is an unbiased account at all. Leave it to the local homer media here to dig this obscure "evidence" up to explain why they lost as opposed to admitting the better to team won.
http://www.jaguars.com/news/Article.aspx?id=5812

.. that's why I was asking...

I'm not argueing whether it was or was not the right call, but it is VERY VERY VERY rare for the NFL Front Office to admit a mistake was maken in the reffing of a game.

[jeff061]

And I am not a PATS FAN SO NO BIAS HERE.

Really??? Even if they did admit it was a mistake, the Pats still had a chance to win it and didn't make the plays. So kudos to the Colts.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Really??? Even if they did admit it was a mistake, the Pats still had a chance to win it and didn't make the plays. So kudos to the Colts.

Yeah, Titans fan here And I agree the Pats had a 21-3 lead they should never of let the colts get a sniff of them and had plenty of chances.

[INDalltheway]

I just want to point out the Jags and Colts are in the same division.

[Daimyo]

Its interesting to hear Pats fans complain about the defense when they actually gave up fewer points this season than any Pats team of the Belichick era. DVOA (footballoutsiders.com) puts them several notches below 2003 and 2004, but still good enough for 5th in the league this year.

I can't wait until the teams meet next season... now that the Colts have taken the last three games, its actually an interesting rivalry.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Is that the faceguarding one where he didn't turn around? I thought that was a penalty.

I was home the last 3 days with a nasty little bug, and had fun watching some of NFL Network's "Best Super Bowl Teams" shows and some of the old Super Bowls and had the following revelations:

1) How on earth did QBs survive in those days? Can't believe some of the things defenders used to get away with, and I understand the protection of them much better now.

2) There was an identical play in one of the 80s Super Bowls called the same way: pass interference, face-guarding. I about died.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

Its interesting to hear Pats fans complain about the defense when they actually gave up fewer points this season than any Pats team of the Belichick era. DVOA (footballoutsiders.com) puts them several notches below 2003 and 2004, but still good enough for 5th in the league this year.

We're not complaining about the defense. Instead, we're shocked that as patchwork as it was given injuries in the secondary (again) that it was that good (again).

[McSweeny]

i do know that faceguarding hasn't been in the NFL rule book for years now. It used to be, but they got rid of it awhile back.

[SirFozzie]

Interesting, here's a post where he names the name of the NFL official who said it was a bad call.

http://www.jaguars.com/news/article.aspx?id=5812

I talked to Dean Blandino in the league office and he confirmed what you’re saying. Blandino, by the way, was in the replay booth at the Patriots-Colts game. Ellis Hobbs should not have been flagged for pass-interference. He didn’t make contact with the receiver and in no way did Hobbs impede Reggie Wayne’s ability to catch the pass. Blandino confirmed that the incorrect call was made.

and he quotes the section of the rules in the column the next day.

A.R. 8.38: “Second-and-10 on A30. Defensive player B1, beyond the line, has his back to the ball during a forward pass. He makes no attempt to catch it but waves his arms in close proximity to an eligible opponent on the A45, but there is no contact with receiver. Ruling: No foul. Legal action by defender.”

So while the NFL has not officially announced that it was a bad call, it's obvious that folks at the head office agree that it was a BS call.

Still, that was one call. Again, if you're up 21-3 in the first half, and you're in a position where one call hurts you so much.. you didn't do your job.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Still, that was one call. Again, if you're up 21-3 in the first half, and you're in a position where one call hurts you so much.. you didn't do your job.

Yup. One 3rd-and-4 completion that Brady and Brown have hit over and over in their short careers together (and similar to at least one they had hit earlier in the game) and it's a moot point...

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Interesting, here's a post where he names the name of the NFL official who said it was a bad call.

http://www.jaguars.com/news/article.aspx?id=5812

I talked to Dean Blandino in the league office and he confirmed what you’re saying. Blandino, by the way, was in the replay booth at the Patriots-Colts game. Ellis Hobbs should not have been flagged for pass-interference. He didn’t make contact with the receiver and in no way did Hobbs impede Reggie Wayne’s ability to catch the pass. Blandino confirmed that the incorrect call was made.

and he quotes the section of the rules in the column the next day.

A.R. 8.38: “Second-and-10 on A30. Defensive player B1, beyond the line, has his back to the ball during a forward pass. He makes no attempt to catch it but waves his arms in close proximity to an eligible opponent on the A45, but there is no contact with receiver. Ruling: No foul. Legal action by defender.”

So while the NFL has not officially announced that it was a bad call, it's obvious that folks at the head office agree that it was a BS call.

Still, that was one call. Again, if you're up 21-3 in the first half, and you're in a position where one call hurts you so much.. you didn't do your job.

That was an official in the replay booth, that's very different than an Official in the NFL office - he's no different than the refs on the field.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

However, I dug this up from a Q&A with the then and current officiating head of the NFL, Mike Perreira. This is an excerpt from: http://www.nfl.com/fans/rulesschool120501.html

"3) What is the official rule against "face-guarding" when a defender is trying to break up a pass? Is there a certain amount of space he must be within of the receiver for this penalty to be called?

There is no such thing as face-guarding in the National Football League. It is legal to face-guard a receiver. In order to have pass interference you must have contact. Any act without contact is not considered a foul."