2005-06 Soccer Thread

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

For those watching, straight red in your books, or what ? From the description, it seems clear enough, but another forum is insisting it was an awful call.

Lehman was beaten, and he was in no mans land. The only option that he had was to take out the player and hope to stop the penalty kick. Certainly if it hadn't resulted in a goal at the end they would be screaming for a foul, advantage or not.

So to me, the ref was justified, but the fact that a goal came off the boards makes it controviersial.

[PilotMan]

That was horrible.

[cthomer5000]

Ugh, great acting by Eboue there... wasn't even touched, and it results in a fucking goal.

[PilotMan]

What a move and a fantastic opportunity for Barca. That was close.

[cthomer5000]

Oh man... Etoo rockets one off the post for Barcelona... i thought for sure it was in.

[Crapshoot]

Well.. this should make for a great second half.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Oh man... Etoo rockets one off the post for Barcelona... i thought for sure it was in.

You and me both, I thought that was in.

[Crapshoot]

saw that - wow. great save by Aluminia.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Celeval

Absolutely deserved a red card if there was a call; the question would be whether to make it a no-call and give Barca the goal instead. Probably the right call - Lehmann knew was he was doing there, and that was definately the intent. Arsenal still full clean sheets, though; it was going to be their defense to rely on in this match, so let Pires come out, hope for Henry to do something magical or a 0-0 penalty set.

Disallowing the goal was absolute bollocks: there was no defender in sight, the ball was clearly running to Giuly and he had an open net. Not to play the advantage was the dumbest decision in a major final I can remember for a long time.

Let the game go on, Barca 1-0 up, 11 v. 11, the showpiece game can continue as a showpiece (I know this latter fact should have no bearing on the ref). As it goes, Barca lost the advantage of the goal - there is an advantage rule that refs too often don;t let play out: this would have taken half a second to assess?

Hell, even allow the goal then send Lehmann off if the ref was that pissed about it, but whatever you do don't allow the goal.

And then he falls for Eboue's dive for the FK that led to the goal. Not a great night so far for the official. Eboue shouldn't be on the pitch tbh - yellow card was correct and should have been booked for diving.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Lehman was beaten, and he was in no mans land. The only option that he had was to take out the player and hope to stop the penalty kick. Certainly if it hadn't resulted in a goal at the end they would be screaming for a foul, advantage or not.

So to me, the ref was justified, but the fact that a goal came off the boards makes it controviersial.

PM, you're a good guy, but wrong on this one: the advantage rule is there to allow the game to go on without giving a free kick so an attacking team is not unfairly penalised, which obviously happened there.

If the ref felt it so was bad, he could have let play carry for the second it took for the ball to run to Giuly, and then gone back to send Lehmann off (although unless it's dangerous play, usually refs only go back to book people rather than send them off) - I bet the referee is beating himself up in the dressing room right now for his decision.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Oh man... Etoo rockets one off the post for Barcelona... i thought for sure it was in.

Didn;t realise until the replay Almunia saved it - what a save, after a fantastic turn by Eto'o

[MikeVick7]

It sounds like UEFA should have been more concerned with the referee in this game instead of being concerned with the linesman who was photographed wearing the Barca shirt.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

PM, you're a good guy, but wrong on this one: the advantage rule is there to allow the game to go on without giving a free kick so an attacking team is not unfairly penalised, which obviously happened there.

If the ref felt it so was bad, he could have let play carry for the second it took for the ball to run to Giuly, and then gone back to send Lehmann off (although unless it's dangerous play, usually refs only go back to book people rather than send them off) - I bet the referee is beating himself up in the dressing room right now for his decision.

I don't think that you can say that he was passing the ball for sure. Especially when that was the direction that he made the move to. If the other Barca player doesn't follow the play and he doesn't blow the whistle how does it look?

It was a fast, fast call, no doubt about it. I really don't think that the ref envisioned the ball going in the net if he lets it go. It is a split second decision, it isn't like he can go back if they don't score and give the card and the FK.

You just hate to see a call like this, as well as the miss on the Eboue dive, in a world class game like this.

[AlexB]

Arsenal have to hope they get a lot of luck, and with Henry & Ljungberg's pace hope they get a couple of good counter attacking opportunities.

But Barca are either going to have to waste their opportunities or Almunia is going to have to have a blinder - Barca will have chances.

See you all in 45

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I don't think that you can say that he was passing the ball for sure. Especially when that was the direction that he made the move to. If the other Barca player doesn't follow the play and he doesn't blow the whistle how does it look?

It was a fast, fast call, no doubt about it. I really don't think that the ref envisioned the ball going in the net if he lets it go. It is a split second decision, it isn't like he can go back if they don't score and give the card and the FK.

You just hate to see a call like this, as well as the miss on the Eboue dive, in a world class game like this.

I don't think he was passing to Giuly - the ball just happened to run to him: that doesn't matter. But all it takes is for one breath, one blink to see where the ball is going to run. Would have made all the difference.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

I don't think he was passing to Giuly - the ball just happened to run to him: that doesn't matter. But all it takes is for one breath, one blink to see where the ball is going to run. Would have made all the difference.

I think that we can agree that in the end it was unfortunate. Thank God the ref never blows it for me in FM.

[cthomer5000]

Whoa... horrible tackle by Henry... rightly carded.

edit: actually not nearly so bad on replay.

[PilotMan]

I thought that was a horrid card on Henry. A total BS call. It was a clean, hard, well timed tackle.

Barca are getting their looks, but Rolo is not getting free space or good time on the ball.

[Marc Vaughan]

I'll second PilotMan imho it wa a fair challenge - full blooded, yes but he got the ball cleanly and didn't follow through on the player in any manner (the player did crumple with him somewhat, but it wasn't 'dirty' on Henry's part and he didn't appear to show studs or similar).

[cthomer5000]

The ref is really having an awful game. Just mssed a yellow on Barcelona. He's screwing both sides it seems.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I'll second PilotMan imho it wa a fair challenge - full blooded, yes but he got the ball cleanly and didn't follow through on the player in any manner (the player did crumple with him somewhat, but it wasn't 'dirty' on Henry's part and he didn't appear to show studs or similar).

I agree after seeing the replay. My first post was when seeing it live, it looked to me like he had certainly caught his leg. The replay showed it was clean.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I'll second PilotMan imho it wa a fair challenge - full blooded, yes but he got the ball cleanly and didn't follow through on the player in any manner (the player did crumple with him somewhat, but it wasn't 'dirty' on Henry's part and he didn't appear to show studs or similar).

If anything, Van Bommel nearly stamped on Henry at the end.

And he's off - to be replaced by Larrsson. 4 strikers eh - caution to the wind for Barcelona ?

[Scholes]

Barcelona could use Messi right about now, or the whole game for that matter.

[PilotMan]

Now we have a game!

[cthomer5000]

Woooot!

[PilotMan]

Henry looks so gassed, now with the game tied the man advantage, coupled with the fact that Arsenal have run Henry into the ground with no support the advantage has to be with Barca.

[cthomer5000]

Barcelona seems energized now. If they keep their foot on the gas, they might be able to take this in regular time.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Barcelona seems energized now. If they keep their foot on the gas, they might be able to take this in regular time.

you called it!

[cthomer5000]

Through the 5 hole... wow!

[Neuqua]

Well that was a quick change in events...

[Crapshoot]

Man, this kinda sucks. I'm not an Arsenal fan, but I wanted Henry to win one - this is 1999 all over again.

[PilotMan]

After the second goal Arsenal looked tired, and unable to mount anything at all to finish the game. They looked resigned to their fate for the last 10 minutes.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Man, this kinda sucks. I'm not an Arsenal fan, but I wanted Henry to win one - this is 1999 all over again.

Maybe he can win it next season when he's playing for Barcelona?

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Critch

Maybe he can win it next season when he's playing for Barcelona?

. True - I think he's gone and was, before this game.

[AlexB]

For the sake of balance, flicking between the two channels showing the game, both Henry & Ljungberg didn't have a problem with the red card, but I imagine Henry will be getting a fine for his comments about the rest of the ref's performance. From his reaction, I don;t think Ljungberg had considered the possibility of Giuly's goal being allowed.

FWIW I still think it was one of a number of horrible decisions, but at the same time I think Barca were the stronger side on paper, and would win more than Arsenal all things being equal 11v.11

The commmentators here are going on about Eto'o being offside for the equaliser, but for me it was too close to call, plus there is a good chance the linesman wouldn't have known Larsson touched the ball at all.

Fair play, no-one can say Barca are undeserving, unlike the CHelsea game there is no doubt about their players actions (apart from maybe van Bommel), it's just a shame IMHO that the match was destroyed from the game it looked like it was going to be so early: two sides attacking each other with flair, pace and skill. Could have been a classic.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

. True - I think he's gone and was, before this game.

Don't know if you heard his interview after the game, but he called out Ronaldinho & Eto'o, and called Barca players kickers, divers and cheats. Not sure how that might affect any potential move

[Kokoshin]

Well, deserved victory for the team who played the best football in Europe this season.

IMO awful call for referee in Lehmann's play. Goal should have been awarded and Lehmann red-carded anyway. Disallowing the play awarding just a free-kick (and I agree it was out of the box) was one of the weirdest things I've ever seen in a football game.

Kudos for all Barça fans, especially for a couple of friends of mine who should be drinking all the Seine at Paris

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Don't know if you heard his interview after the game, but he called out Ronaldinho & Eto'o, and called Barca players kickers, divers and cheats. Not sure how that might affect any potential move

Yes. I'm curious to see what reaction that's going to draw from the press, after seeing the way Jose got skewered for saying fairly similar things (and with slightly more of a basis for his complaints, for my money).

[Northwood_DK]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Don't know if you heard his interview after the game, but he called out Ronaldinho & Eto'o, and called Barca players kickers, divers and cheats.

Calling the other team divers is a bit out of line considering they got their own goal from a free-kick given for an Eboue dive.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Northwood_DK

Calling the other team divers is a bit out of line considering they got their own goal from a free-kick given for an Eboue dive.

Agreed. Award-winning dive by Eboue.

[ISiddiqui]

Damn... I had it DVR'ed, but when I went to watch it, for some reason ESPN2 was all garbled (it's play for like 20 seconds and then 10 seconds of stop, garbling, and then start again).. but it didn't affect the commericals, just the game feed.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Northwood_DK

Calling the other team divers is a bit out of line considering they got their own goal from a free-kick given for an Eboue dive.

Calling the other team kickers is a bit out of line considering the "tackle" Eboue performed on Van Bronkhorst for his booking, it should have been a straight red.

And have Arsenal ever lost a game fair and square? Every defeat seems to be followed by bleating from Wenger.

[Butter]

Lost in the Barcelona win is that Ronaldinho played like absolute crap. If they had ended up losing, they surely could have blamed him in large part. But as it is, I think it was a fair result. Barcelona should have had the early goal, and I think they would've shut Arsenal down had they been able to get that early advantage.

Lehmann's red was perfectly fine, but it did seem the ref was very reluctant to card Barcelona, and more than willing to pull out the card for any Arsenal fouls.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Lost in the Barcelona win is that Ronaldinho played like absolute crap. If they had ended up losing, they surely could have blamed him in large part. But as it is, I think it was a fair result. Barcelona should have had the early goal, and I think they would've shut Arsenal down had they been able to get that early advantage.

Lehmann's red was perfectly fine, but it did seem the ref was very reluctant to card Barcelona, and more than willing to pull out the card for any Arsenal fouls.

I agree Ronaldinho played like crap. For world footballer of the year, sure looked like he was choking hard. You can say Arsenal shut him down, but his free kicks were weak and his corners were absolutely dreadful.

Henry as well had at least two shots that are normally automatic for him, but tough to fault him considering the effort he put in being the only man up front for most of the match.

Just jumping on the bandwagon, but horrible call by the ref IMO not to play the advantage there on the red card. I don't know how the official rule book reads, but it's the freakin' finals for god's sake. You can say what you want about how it shouldn't affect the calls, but if there's a chance to allow a goal and NOT send someone off in the final you do it ... just like you don't go throwing a bunch of cards out if you don't have to. It's not like Lehman almost broke the guys leg or something - there were much harder tackles throughout the game. I know he was the last man, but just allow the play-on and the goal.

I thought Ljungberg put in a particularly gutsy performance for Arsenal, and while Larsson had probably 5 touches total two were excellent flicks/passes that really set up both goals.

[AlexB]

Referee has come out and admitted he made a mistake - he agrees should have played advantage, allowed the goal & booked Lehmann.

That said, as I said yesterday, I think Barca were deserved winners given the tournament as a whole, and would have held on / progressed to win by more.

Wenger is well known for his 'I did not see it' comments - strange how he saw everything this time I disagree with Critch that Eboue should have been red carded for the initial challenge, but he should have been at some time (would have been booked for the dive that led to the goal FK) and brought down Deco, Ronaldinho & Eto'o around the edge of the book - could easily have been booked about four times!

Just a shame that a game that should have shown two footballing sides duking it out was turned into attack v. defence by a sub-par referee.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Just a shame that a game that should have shown two footballing sides duking it out was turned into attack v. defence by a sub-par referee.

And for the second time in the tournament, too.

Oh, and in other news, UEFA have decided that since Thierry Henry is not Jose Mourinho he doesn't get punished for his complaints:

Originally Posted by Sky Sports News

However, his stinging words will not get him into any trouble, according to UEFA director of communications William Gaillard, who will take the situation into account when reviewing the incident.

"Well it's emotions I think, we take it as emotions," Gaillard told Sky Sports News.

"You know I don't recall any game where the winning team came in front of the camera and said the ref was terrible.

"Henry is a great player. I'm sure he wanted to win for his club and I think he was very disappointed. I'm sure he will ponder on the match

"I understand that certain decisions are difficult to take."

Considered just on its own merits, that's a very reasonable and thoughtful response. Considered in the context of how Galliard responds to Jose complaining, it's a ridiculous double standard.


I don't mean to be looking at the final entirely in terms of Chelsea. It's just that, well, the parallels to the Chelsea-Barca match are uncanny and frankly everything else I have to say has been said by someone who saw more of the game than I did (Art History final ).

[AlexB]

It is a ridiculous reason not to punish Henry IMHO - if it's OK because it's emotions, why did Neil Warnock get a six month touchline ban today for flicking Vs at Nigel Worthington when Worthington refused to shake his hand? Surely that was just emotions?

Does that also mean that a player who tells the ref during the game 'You're a f*****g cheating c**t' shouldn't be sent off as he is just emotional? A player gets brought down with a late tackle and turns round and punches the person committing the foul - OK because it was emotions?

Gaillard is a twat - simple as. Everything the man says is verbal diarrea.

[tanglewood]

With regards to Henry's reaction after the match, F365 had a very good entery in their lookalike section this morning:

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Referee has come out and admitted he made a mistake - he agrees should have played advantage, allowed the goal & booked Lehmann.

If he allowed the goal and played advantage, would he have still been required to show the red, or could he realistically have given him a yellow since even though he was the last man, the goal counted anyways? That would have been the call I preferred.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Critch

And have Arsenal ever lost a game fair and square? Every defeat seems to be followed by bleating from Wenger.

Actually, there have been plenty of losses where Wenger has not bitched. Hell, this season ALONE we've logged a shit load of losses. They're just not as much fun to talk about, though, huh?