The OFFICIAL 2008-09 NHL Thread

[Travis]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I have a few comments on all of this, amongst other things.

1. Avery is a moron, always was and always will be. I also believe that he has mental problems, not just because of this incident but because of other things he has done in the past.
2. Yet another reason the Red Wings are the best run sports franchise in all of sports (yes, including the Patriots). The Wings drafted and later dumped Avery. Another good move, as all he is bringing to the NHL, the Dallas Stars, and himself is embarrassment.
3. I noticed in an earlier post discussion of the old NHL. I also miss those days. I remember Davydov and Borsato. What about the great Thomas Steen? He played with a lot of passion in a town that never appreciated him or his team. I have had numerous discussions with my friends about the current state of the NHL. If it was up to me, the NHL would drop around 10-12 teams, put Toronto and Detroit back in the same division, and restore teams like Dallas and Carolina to their former cities. This would help alleviate all of the average players that now play in the NHL, and allow the great players more room to skate and make plays. There are just too many Georges Laraques in the game now, it is ugly some nights.
4. Gary Bettman is an idiot. He has nearly single-handedly destroyed the NHL with all of his ridiculous expansion nonsense (Florida?)(Columbus?). The NHL needs to fire his dumb ass and hire someone who actually cares about the game.
5. Despite all of the above problems with the NHL and hockey in general, it is the greatest sport in the world. Long live the NHL!!

To be kind of nitpicky, while Laraque may not be a even a very good hockey player he is probably the best fighter in the league as well as a great ambassador for the sport. The charity work he continues to do in Edmonton is an example a lot of other players can learn from and very rarely will you hear about him taking runs or cheap shots at players (it does happen, but generally speaking, he's as gentlemanly an enforcer as there is). If nothing else he was forced out of Edmonton because he was seen to be too respectful on the ice and the brass (and a lot of the fans) never realized how good of a deterrent he was even though he wouldn't get his hands as dirty as a lot of people wanted him to do.

I too would like to see the league cut down the number of teams to improve the general quality of play and this would likely mean the end of Laraque's career but there are many players out there who don't bring to the ice what he does, never mind what he does for the sport away from the rink. It's just a shame that this guy rarely seems to get his due for making the most of what he has and doing a lot of good for a lot of others in appreciation for the career he's been afforded.

[RomaGoth]

His name just happened to come to mind first. I don't necessarily think he is a bad hockey player. I would take him over Avery any day. My point was that there are just too many "wannabes" in the NHL now because of all the teams in the league.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Yet another reason the Red Wings are the best run sports franchise in all of sports (yes, including the Patriots). The Wings drafted and later dumped Avery. Another good move, as all he is bringing to the NHL, the Dallas Stars, and himself is embarrassment.

The Wings didn't draft him, but they did give him his best shot at making the NHL. They signed him to a free agent tryout agreement and he made the team that way. Getting rid of him was wise.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I noticed in an earlier post discussion of the old NHL. I also miss those days. I remember Davydov and Borsato. What about the great Thomas Steen? He played with a lot of passion in a town that never appreciated him or his team.

What crack are you smoking that makes you think Winnipeg fans didn't appreciate Thomas Steen? Or our team, for that matter? Give me a break.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I know if I did that I'd be reprimanded but more likely fired...why should Avery be treated any differently?

Ever watched a boxing press conference?

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Ever watched a boxing press conference?

LOL...and boxing is the model for which any and all organizations should look to for guidance.

So, did you enjoy watching any hockey last night when every intermission was filled with Avery-related backlash whether it be his apology, reaction from teammates/coaches/management, or analysis from every so-called expert?? I know I didn't. I also didn't enjoy having to hear about Avery this and Avery that during the Oilers/Stars telecast last night when he wasn't even playing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

LOL...and boxing is the model for which any and all organizations should look to for guidance.

As opposed to the vast success the NHL is experiencing drawing viewers or interest?

So, did you enjoy watching any hockey last night when every intermission was filled with Avery-related backlash whether it be his apology, reaction from teammates/coaches/management, or analysis from every so-called expert?? I know I didn't. I also didn't enjoy having to hear about Avery this and Avery that during the Oilers/Stars telecast last night when he wasn't even playing.

Worse yet, I didn't even bother looking for any hockey on TV ... just like the vast majority of the country. I had no interest in hearing a guy get ripped for cracking what I consider to be a very mild joke at worst.

[Draft Dodger]

Sean Avery should be suspended for wearing these sunglasses:

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

As opposed to the vast success the NHL is experiencing drawing viewers or interest?

Worse yet, I didn't even bother looking for any hockey on TV ... just like the vast majority of the country. I had no interest in hearing a guy get ripped for cracking what I consider to be a very mild joke at worst.

I'm fine with the majority of the US not caring about hockey but what bugs me is that you think that having Avery in the league increases the US' interest in the NHL. If that's true, that's a pretty sad statement about the US...but I highly doubt it's true.

So the NHL, his teammates, his coaches, the Stars' front office, players around the league, NHL pundits, news broadcasters around the world, newspapers around the world, websites around the world all need to chill out and smack a bitch, right? Afterall, it was just a joke, and a very mild one, at that.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Travis

To be kind of nitpicky, while Laraque may not be a even a very good hockey player he is probably the best fighter in the league as well as a great ambassador for the sport. The charity work he continues to do in Edmonton is an example a lot of other players can learn from and very rarely will you hear about him taking runs or cheap shots at players (it does happen, but generally speaking, he's as gentlemanly an enforcer as there is). If nothing else he was forced out of Edmonton because he was seen to be too respectful on the ice and the brass (and a lot of the fans) never realized how good of a deterrent he was even though he wouldn't get his hands as dirty as a lot of people wanted him to do.

I too would like to see the league cut down the number of teams to improve the general quality of play and this would likely mean the end of Laraque's career but there are many players out there who don't bring to the ice what he does, never mind what he does for the sport away from the rink. It's just a shame that this guy rarely seems to get his due for making the most of what he has and doing a lot of good for a lot of others in appreciation for the career he's been afforded.

PING Dr Sak to bring up his slide tackle on Biron

But agree, he did tons while here for a short time in Pittsburgh. His problem was he became ineffective at his job because he is so gentlemanly.

One of his fights with Riley Cote, Laraque knocked Cote down to his knees with the 2nd or 3rd punch. Cote begged the refs let it continue...and Laraque helped him back up before punching him again.

Back to Avery, I think one of the big issues is, for whatever reason, the NHL has been mostly devoid of assholes. Sure guys like Hull and Roenick liked to yap, but they kept it pretty much in line. The NFL culture of you can shoot people in the offseason, get traded to a new team, get a 2nd chance, fight your bodyguard, get drunk, suspended again, and get a 3rd chance is expected now. Those guys don't exist in the NHL...other than Avery.

That said, he's a side-show. If you are watching the NHL because you find him "entertaining", then you don't care that it's hockey (or football, baseball, NASCAR, whatever), just that some jackass makes you laugh.

[bhlloy]

FWIW, I don't think reducing the number of teams would lead to the end of Laraque's career. I still think you would have the traditional lines (1st and 2nd scoring, 3rd shut down, 4th energy/grinder) and teams would need to protect their stars just as much. I think you'd see more one dimensional offensive guys lose their jobs than you would guys like Laraque. Look at how many enforcers teams carried in the early 80's when there was way less talent dilution.

Oh, and it's particularly funny you chose Laraque as the example, seeing as he's probably the best in the league at his particular role (and is one of the better skilled fighters as well) Now Mitch Fritz or Eric Godard, maybe we can agree on

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I'm fine with the majority of the US not caring about hockey but what bugs me is that you think that having Avery in the league increases the US' interest in the NHL. If that's true, that's a pretty sad statement about the US...but I highly doubt it's true.

I think he has a better chance of being found interesting as a character than the majority of clones in the league, yeah. Let's be realistic here
1) He speaks English
2) He has a personality (good, bad, indifferent, at least there is one)

And that's more than can be said for a sizable percentage of the league.

So the NHL, his teammates, his coaches, the Stars' front office, players around the league, NHL pundits, news broadcasters around the world, newspapers around the world, websites around the world all need to chill out and smack a bitch, right? Afterall, it was just a joke, and a very mild one, at that.

With absolute sincerity honesty, I'm flabbergasted by this even causing a batted eyelash. And has really caused me to question whether there's some sand caught in a number of unexpectedly sensitive places. To me this seems like far more of a mountain/molehill than even the NFL has managed to come up with in recent years, which isn't always an easy standard to top.

Was it silly? Yep.
Was it less than a laugh riot? Yep. Not a horrible fail but nothing that should have him considering a career in stand-up either.
Was it worth even ten seconds of concern? Not on my planet.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Was it worth even ten seconds of concern? Not on my planet.

I think at this point it's been well established that you live on a much different planet than the majority of FOFC'ers.

[Maple Leafs]

Bring back the Norris!

God, I miss hockey in the early 90s. I miss scoring chances and end-to-end rushes and fights and actual rivalries and guys playing with honor and real arenas and fans that made noise and home-and-home series and not being told to buy a new jersey every month and playoffs that meant playing every second night whether you were tired or not.

If anyone needs my I'll be on my porch yelling at teenagers.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I think he has a better chance of being found interesting as a character than the majority of clones in the league, yeah. Let's be realistic here
1) He speaks English
2) He has a personality (good, bad, indifferent, at least there is one)

If you're more interested in the interview after the game with "a personality" instead of the product on the ice, field, floor, etc...then, I'm sorry, you'll never be satisfied. These are top level athletes getting paid to do what they do best...play a sport...and that's the way it should be. If you want standup comedy...go to a club...if you want drama...get really drunk and go to a club.

What you're looking for has already failed several times...anybody remember the XFL?? Not even the US will support a league that relies on blatantly tasteless "entertainment" and that was football...well, it was supposed to be football. Why would hockey try to go that route when it isn't even considered a major sport in the US?

If Americans don't like hockey...that's OK...the NHL will survive one way or another...it's done pretty well during it's first 90+ years.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Bring back the Norris!

God, I miss hockey in the early 90s. I miss scoring chances and end-to-end rushes and fights and actual rivalries and guys playing with honor and real arenas and fans that made noise and home-and-home series and not being told to buy a new jersey every month and playoffs that meant playing every second night whether you were tired or not.

If anyone needs my I'll be on my porch yelling at teenagers.

Except for the whole the Red Wings kind of sucking during that era, I concur.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Except for the whole the Red Wings kind of sucking during that era, I concur.

That's funny, HB, because I can't honestly remember the Wings sucking.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

That's funny, HB, because I can't honestly remember the Wings sucking.

I don't remember them ever being good

[Fidatelo]

The entire Norris division was pretty weak back in the 80's for the most part.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

If you're more interested in the interview after the game with "a personality" instead of the product on the ice, field, floor, etc...then, I'm sorry, you'll never be satisfied. These are top level athletes getting paid to do what they do best...play a sport...and that's the way it should be. If you want standup comedy...go to a club...if you want drama...get really drunk and go to a club.

What you're looking for has already failed several times...anybody remember the XFL?? Not even the US will support a league that relies on blatantly tasteless "entertainment" and that was football...well, it was supposed to be football. Why would hockey try to go that route when it isn't even considered a major sport in the US?

If Americans don't like hockey...that's OK...the NHL will survive one way or another...it's done pretty well during it's first 90+ years.

Well Said. +1.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

That's funny, HB, because I can't honestly remember the Wings sucking.

The early 90s was the Tim Cheveldae Era. It wasn't all that grand.

89-90: The Wings were abysmal. They were last in the Norris and missed the playoffs.

90-91: The Wings were 3rd in the Norris and lost in the first round to St. Louis.

91-92: The first year the Wings really began to become a force. It was Lidstrom's rookie year, Fedorov's second year, but Cheveldae was still in net. They They won the Norris, beat the Northstars in a 7 game series and then promptly got swept by the Blackhawks in the second round.

92-93: More of the same, but this time around the Wings lost in the first round, in game 7, in overtime to Nikolai Borschevsky.

That season marked the end of the Norris Division.

93-94: Despite the lack of a Norris Division, this was still in "early 90s", since it was before the Devils won the Cup and the whole trap thing. The Wings had 100 pts. They were first in the Central Division and then promptly lost in the first round to an expansion team (San Jose) with the winning goal coming on a bad giveaway by Osgood to Jamie Baker. (This was my darkest moment as a fan.)

So, maybe the Wings didn't quite "suck" during the early 90s (they did the first season), but there were many playoff disasters.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

The entire Norris division was pretty weak back in the 80's for the most part.

What do you know about all of that? All you were doing back then was hating on Thomas Steen and the team he played for. Ingrate.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

The early 90s was the Tim Cheveldae Era. It wasn't all that grand.

89-90: The Wings were abysmal. They were last in the Norris and missed the playoffs.

90-91: The Wings were 3rd in the Norris and lost in the first round to St. Louis.

91-92: The first year the Wings really began to become a force. It was Lidstrom's rookie year, Fedorov's second year, but Cheveldae was still in net. They They won the Norris, beat the Northstars in a 7 game series and then promptly got swept by the Blackhawks in the second round.

92-93: More of the same, but this time around the Wings lost in the first round, in game 7, in overtime to Nikolai Borschevsky.

That season marked the end of the Norris Division.

93-94: Despite the lack of a Norris Division, this was still in "early 90s", since it was before the Devils won the Cup and the whole trap thing. The Wings had 100 pts. They were first in the Central Division and then promptly lost in the first round to an expansion team (San Jose) with the winning goal coming on a bad giveaway by Osgood to Jamie Baker. (This was my darkest moment as a fan.)

So, maybe the Wings didn't quite "suck" during the early 90s (they did the first season), but there were many playoff disasters.

You see, this is why other teams' fans hate the Red Wings.

[MikeVic]

Tim Cheveldae heh.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

PING Dr Sak to bring up his slide tackle on Biron

You mean this...



Overall I like Laraque, just not in that case. He didn't take cheap shots while fighting and like you said with Cote, he gave the other guy every chance to have an even fight. He also does a lot of work outside of hockey for the community.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

If you're more interested in the interview after the game with "a personality" instead of the product on the ice, field, floor, etc...then, I'm sorry, you'll never be satisfied.

Sigh. Who said anything about "more" interested? I'm simply suggesting that a little personality can be a part of the overall package and is a net positive. And interesting personalities are something that's in short supply in the NHL.

These are top level athletes getting paid to do what they do best...play a sport...

Wrong. They're getting paid to put butts in seats and generate enough revenue through other means to support their salaries and the continued interest & investment of the owners. Part of doing that is by {gasp} providing entertainment. And personalities entertain and more importantly they sell. Nobody is suggesting that every player needs to wear floppy shoes and turn cartwheels (especially if that isn't them) but when you happen across a player who actually has some personality it's idiotic to stifle it and even more idiotic to do so when you're struggling to maintain any relevance. And even moreso when it's someone on a team that's dead last in it's conference and among the worst draws on the road.

If Americans don't like hockey...that's OK...the NHL will survive one way or another...it's done pretty well during it's first 90+ years.

Not in any recognizable form as a major professional sport it wouldn't. But maybe it could be a semi-pro league like the CFL.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You see, this is why other teams' fans hate the Red Wings.

I think this pretty sums up the proper response:

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Tim Cheveldae heh.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not in any recognizable form as a major professional sport it wouldn't. But maybe it could be a semi-pro league like the CFL.

What makes the CFL 'semi-pro' exactly? The fact that Americans don't care?

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

What do you know about all of that? All you were doing back then was hating on Thomas Steen and the team he played for. Ingrate.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

What makes the CFL 'semi-pro' exactly? The fact that Americans don't care?

If you have to ask ... then you're not going to like the realistic answer.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If you have to ask ... then you're not going to like the realistic answer.

Of course I won't, but lets hear it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Of course I won't, but lets hear it.

The CFL is just a bunch of the NCCA's and NFL's sloppy seconds.

SUSPEND ME I DONT CARE

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

What crack are you smoking that makes you think Winnipeg fans didn't appreciate Thomas Steen? Or our team, for that matter? Give me a break.

I blame Gary Bettman for everything wrong with the NHL, but would the Jets have moved if Winnipeg supported its team? Just asking....?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Tim Cheveldae heh.

Yeah he was something all right. I also remember Norm Maracle......Glen Hanlon......Greg Stefan......Bob Essensa........

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm simply suggesting that a little personality can be a part of the overall package and is a net positive.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

...but when you happen across a player who actually has some personality it's idiotic to stifle it and even more idiotic to do so when you're struggling to maintain any relevance. And even moreso when it's someone on a team that's dead last in it's conference and among the worst draws on the road.

So guys like Avery are a "net positive" yet the Stars are in last place AND one of the worst draws on the road...I'm confused. You've just said that fans aren't willing to pay to watch Sean "Look At Me, Look What I'm Doing" Avery so why in the world would the league need more guys like him??

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Wrong. They're getting paid to put butts in seats and generate enough revenue through other means to support their salaries and the continued interest & investment of the owners. Part of doing that is by {gasp} providing entertainment. And personalities entertain and more importantly they sell.

So, why are guys like Avery going undrafted by NHL teams if they are so vital to the success of their teams? Do you really think the average fan sits at home says to himself,

"Hmmm, the Stars and Sean Avery are coming to town this week but so are the Red Wings, Penguins, and the Capitals and I've only got time and money to go to one of the games. Boy, the Red Wings and all their Swedes aren't any fun to watch...Crosby and Malkin are boring...Ovetchkin and Semin, zzzzzzz...AVERY IS AWESOME...I'm definitely going to see him...is that Madamo or Modimo or Modano guy still there??"

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not in any recognizable form as a major professional sport it wouldn't.

Could care less if you or anybody else considers it a major professional sport or not, it's the best hockey league in the world whether you like it or not.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But maybe it could be a semi-pro league like the CFL.

Where do the best football players in the world play? The NFL. Where do the best hockey players in the world play? The NHL.

So how is the NHL like the CFL again?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

So how is the NHL like the CFL again?

At the moment it isn't. Take the US teams (and more importantly) and money out of the picture ... and it gets to compete for utter irrelevancy with pro lacrosse and water polo.

edit to add: Sorry but if reality is really that disturbing to you, don't live in the 51st state.

[MikeVic]

This thread has made me angry over the past page.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

This thread has made me angry over the past page.

So Tim Cheveldae's name does that to you too, eh?

I hear you, my brother.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

At the moment it isn't. Take the US teams (and more importantly) and money out of the picture ... and it gets to compete for utter irrelevancy with pro lacrosse and water polo.

edit to add: Sorry but if reality is really that disturbing to you, don't live in the 51st state.

Heh. Life is just peachy up here...it's December and I haven't had to shovel snow once...how could life be any better?

The NHL survived before they had 20+ teams in the US and they would be just fine with half that many teams south of the border. Believe it or not, there are solid hockey markets in the States that do support their Avery-less teams.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

The NHL survived before they had 20+ teams in the US and they would be just fine with half that many teams south of the border.

The league might in some form or fashion ... but ask the players how they'd like the reduced salary.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The league might in some form or fashion ... but ask the players how they'd like the reduced salary.

LOL!! Any idea how many leagues there are around the world where guys make just enough to pay the bills...and sometimes less?? Nobody likes to take a pay cut, true, but there are even more guys out there that would quit their 9-5 gig to make less money to play hockey, baseball, football, etc...not so many that would go the other way, though, I'm afraid.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Nobody likes to take a pay cut, true, but there are even more guys out there that would quit their 9-5 gig to make less money to play hockey, baseball, football, etc

Wait a minute. What happened to your whole "best players in the world" argument from earlier? What would ham & eggers even have to do with the situation ... unless you're facing becoming a semi-pro league.

Population leads to money ... money leads to attracting & retaining top talent, which is more difficult/expensive in a landscape where there are more options than ever.

The NHL -- both the American owners & the Canadian owners -- needs the revenue (both realized & potential) that comes from being heavily vested in the U.S. There's clearly more fan support in most of Canada than in the U.S. but the vast population differences in available markets means a great deal in big picture. It would be shortsighted for either to hypothetically break away from the other because of that.

My point is, and has been throughout the thread, that it seems incredibly shortsighted for the league to suspend Avery for his comments when he's done more to generate media interest (and consequently an opportunity for interest among the general public) in a few days than 10 *Patrick Marleau's have done or will do in a lifetime.

A league full of Avery's likely wouldn't work on a national scale & I'm not suggesting they would. The Malkin's/Crosby's/Ovechkin's provide the skill with flash to be the primary focal points. But those guys are considerably more marketable with a few Avery's in the mix for flavor. Heroes need villains to play off, how many people in recent memory have been better suited for the role than Avery?

Look (and hopefully learn) from the example that NASCAR provides. A primarily regional sport that grew beyond anyone's wildest imagination in large part due to the personalities that emerged. And it seems no coincidence that they've hit a plateau as they (in part) legislated most of those personalities out of the business. Avery at least provides the potential for a watershed moment along the lines of the Allison/Yarborough infield fight at Daytona in '79. That was not the most dramatic moment in the sport nor the most exciting by a long shot ... but it was one of the most interesting & became one of the defining moments. There hasn't been a defining moment in hockey for the majority of the available North American audience since Al Michaels talked about miracles and even that has virtually no connection to the NHL.

*I picked Marleau's name at random as part of the guys currently tied for 10th in league scoring. Nothing more or less than that should be implied by use of him as an example.

[Fidatelo]

I think what I'm learning here is that douchebags enjoy watching other douchebags, and don't understand why people that aren't douchebags would not have the same reaction.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

At the moment it isn't. Take the US teams (and more importantly) and money out of the picture ... and it gets to compete for utter irrelevancy with pro lacrosse and water polo.

edit to add: Sorry but if reality is really that disturbing to you, don't live in the 51st state.

So let me get this straight.

a) you're saying Avery is good for the sport and will attract the sort of fans the NHL should be trying to attract.

b) you're comparing teams in a league with a $50+ million salary cap to a league where it's an exception for a player to make a million per year.

c) you believe that Avery has done more for the sport than a top 10 scorer in the league. Funny that you should pick Marleau, by far the most vanilla of the 3 tied for that spot (randomly of course) when the other two (Iginla and Kane) are both guys who attract fans for the sport for very good reasons and are the type of players the league should be pushing, not Avery.

I'm happy with the NHL's decision to take Avery to task for this. They've been too lenient with him in the past and this incident brought everything to a head. Those are not the sort of comments the league wants representing them and there's people out there who will see that story and respect the league for that just as there are people out there who'll see the story and figure that the league is over reacting. The NHL is trying to build a product and image and they apparently don't want something like this to be a part of it. Had he said it on the ice to Phaneuf and drawn a penalty I'd have thought he was a gutless punk (as he would have turtled of course) but that would have been part of the game (trash talk will always be in there, some better than others, some over the line as Avery has been in the past). Seeking out a camera to spout off derogatory comments about people not even in the sport for the sake of getting his face on TV is a totally different story and one I'm glad the NHL is discouraging.

The NHL has marketing issues, no doubt, one of them is not that they refuse to promote or encourage Avery. They've got the best players in the world and a product that is as exciting if not more so than other major North American sports. The biggest issue is undertanding of the game in markets where generally the weather makes it not a natural choice to play growing up. Whether it's better to attempt to grow the sport in those markets or to potentially look at expanding to other places (across the ocean) where interest is higher and potentially creating almost an AL/NL sort of situation would be a hell of a debate. Using Avery as a spokesman, well, I have a hard time imagining that you're going to get a lot of support from the league, knowledgeable fans or the players on that one. So if your only support on that tact is from "new" fans who tune in due to his recent interview, that's a pretty damn small minority and a group that isn't nearly big enough to make the sort of economic change you're implying.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I blame Gary Bettman for everything wrong with the NHL, but would the Jets have moved if Winnipeg supported its team? Just asking....?

Winnipeg supported it's team to the best of it's ability. This isn't a city of 4 million people, nor do most of the people who live here earn large salaries. It's a blue collar town that loves NHL hockey, but got priced out. Add in the fact that Bettman was more than happy to pave the way out of town, and history shows what happens.

You can argue that we are too small to have an NHL team in the current economic client, and I will likely agree. But to say we didn't support the team, and further to say we didn't appreciate Thomas Steen (wtf?) is just wrong.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Travis

a) you're saying Avery is good for the sport and will attract the sort of fans the NHL should be trying to attract.

Live & breathing should be about the only criteria at this point.

b) you're comparing teams in a league with a $50+ million salary cap to a league where it's an exception for a player to make a million per year.

Umm ... you lost me somewhere. Which comparison of what to whom are you referring to? (Seriously, I'm jumping around between about three things atm, it's not hard for my train of thought to get derailed this afternoon)

you believe that Avery has done more for the sport than a top 10 scorer in the league. Funny that you should pick Marleau, by far the most vanilla of the 3 tied for that spot (randomly of course) when the other two (Iginla and Kane) are both guys who attract fans for the sport for very good reasons and are the type of players the league should be pushing, not Avery.

I picked Marleau over Iginla simply because I didn't want to use him since Avery already did. Feel free to substitute Kane though, who is equally anonymous as Marleau AFAIC.

The NHL is trying to build a product and image and they apparently don't want something like this to be a part of it.

I agree with you there ... I just think it's an idiotic decision on there part.

The NHL has marketing issues, no doubt, one of them is not that they refuse to promote or encourage Avery. They've got the best players in the world and a product that is as exciting if not more so than other major North American sports.

see my NASCAR/Daytona reference earlier. "Exciting" and "interesting" aren't always the same thing. Taken in a vacuum I can find a situation in an AFL2 game "exciting" but it's almost completely unmemorable & only "interesting" in the vaguest sense.

So if your only support on that tact is from "new" fans who tune in due to his recent interview, that's a pretty damn small minority and a group that isn't nearly big enough to make the sort of economic change you're implying.

You say this as though the NHL is really in a position to be picky. At this point for them there's virtually only two kinds of publicity: good and better.
And any is better than none.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Live & breathing should be about the only criteria at this point.

Umm ... you lost me somewhere. Which comparison of what to whom are you referring to? (Seriously, I'm jumping around between about three things atm, it's not hard for my train of thought to get derailed this afternoon)

I picked Marleau over Iginla simply because I didn't want to use him since Avery already did. Feel free to substitute Kane though, who is equally anonymous as Marleau AFAIC.

I agree with you there ... I just think it's an idiotic decision on there part.

see my NASCAR/Daytona reference earlier. "Exciting" and "interesting" aren't always the same thing. Taken in a vacuum I can find a situation in an AFL2 game "exciting" but it's almost completely unmemorable & only "interesting" in the vaguest sense.

You say this as though the NHL is really in a position to be picky. At this point for them there's virtually only two kinds of publicity: good and better.
And any is better than none.

The comparison I was referencing was to the CFL. Even if the NHL contracts out of the markets that aren't working in the US it's not as if they're leaving the US entirely and going back to a 6-10 team league. If they were to contract 4-6 teams even, player salaries would likely not go down at all, there'd just be loss overall jobs for the fringe players to hang on to. The drop in revenue wouldn't be all that huge as you're leaving the poorer markets and the product on the ice would likely increase in overall quality. The battle the NHL has to pick is whether to try and increase awareness of the sport and get new fans or target existing markets overseas.

As for publicity, in my mind, this was good publicity for the league. Avery acted like an ass, the NHL stepped in and gave him hell for it. I'd much rather that publicity than Avery acting like an ass and getting away with it. I also hope that it means less moments like this in the future, not just from Avery, but from younger players seeing that acting like that is certainly not condusive to a career in the NHL.

And you saying Kane is anonymous would be like me saying that Calvin Johnson is as well. If you pay attention to the sport for more than a few days you're going to hear about them and once you see them play you're really not going to care all that much about whether you ever see them in an interview because it's a hell of a lot more fun to watch them play their respective sports.

As Spector put it in his blog:

Avery isn't like outspoken Jeremy Roenick or former player (and now one of Avery's bosses) Brett Hull, whose colorful comments often were directed at the problems with the NHL product. While those two clearly enjoyed the limelight they were also great players and teammates, whose performances highlighted the NHL at its best.

The same cannot be said for Avery, a decent player who is only out to sell himself, not his team, not his teammates and not the league. As has become very apparent in the aftermath of his remarks toward Cuthbert, his Stars teammates have grown tired of his antics...just as the Kings and Rangers did before them.

This isn't the first time Avery's comments has gotten himself into trouble. The NHL has cut him plenty of slack over the years but he finally took it one step too far and forced the league to act. He has no one to blame but himself.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Travis

And you saying Kane is anonymous would be like me saying that Calvin Johnson is as well.

I'd say the more apt comparison would be Kane vs *Greg Jennings/ Lee Evans/ Vincent Jackson or maybe even Andre Johnson. All good enough at what they do, better than the league average, but nothing particularly about them that makes then memorable one versus the other, or even versus Houshmanzadeh.


(again just pulling names from the stat list)

[MikeVic]

I don't see how you lump those WRs together. Andre Johnson is one of the elite in my eyes.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I don't see how you lump those WRs together. Andre Johnson is one of the elite in my eyes.

In fairness, I did say "maybe" on Andre. But I also wouldn't expect him to be one of the first ten WR's that someone named either (in spite of leading the league in both yards and catches this season).