Werewolf XLVI - Sun And Shadow (Game Thread) - Game Over! Cultists win!

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Alan, I think it is pretty clear that I am the Wizard.

I was trying to fish for more information from them and get them to continue working for us, but I correctly identified one of the Sun Members last night.

I'm assuming someone you identified as a sun member then couldn't be a shadow member. Would knowing who this is help us narrow down our suspects any further? I think this might be good to know right now.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Dola, I still think my action on you should prove that you aren't the last Shadow though Barkeep.. As my action would have blocked you from trying to convert Swaggs, thus you must have used a mundane action or failed on any magical action attempt.

Yeah it's why I want to believe you since your action does tend to clear me

SnDvls: Fair enough. Wasn't sure quite what to call it, which is why I clarified and stated exactly what I did so there could be no confusion.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

sorry but I have to dispute this even if you don't agree.

I used a potion of alertness to see you cast a spell and Mr. W who was also in our room leave our room for a time being. How would I have know you were in the same room as me with out the potion?

I said earlier in the day exactly what I had done and where though. I think the part about Mr.W is what gives your story more credence. I am a bit upset he chose to not answer the doubts about what he was up to in there when he was here earlier.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by BrianD

So what was all the talk about knowing what his mundane power was? That was the only part of your statement that I objected to. You knew that his mundane power was that he had no mundane role?

Brian, without quoting the exact message that I received, it made two points:
1.) hoopsguy's role
2.) it also specifically told me that he did not have a mundane role

The assumption is that, if a player had both a magical role AND a mundane role, both would be revealed with the SoI.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

sorry but I have to dispute this even if you don't agree.

I used a potion of alertness to see you cast a spell and Mr. W who was also in our room leave our room for a time being. How would I have know you were in the same room as me with out the potion?

I used a potion of alertness on Night 1 (which is how I identified KWhit), but I'm not the alchemist. Using a potion doesn't mean you made it.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm assuming someone you identified as a sun member then couldn't be a shadow member. Would knowing who this is help us narrow down our suspects any further? I think this might be good to know right now.

I don't believe revealing him would help us narrow down the list any further today.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

sorry but I have to dispute this even if you don't agree.

I used a potion of alertness to see you cast a spell and Mr. W who was also in our room leave our room for a time being. How would I have know you were in the same room as me with out the potion?

The below post is what I am referring to. At 6:54am EST this morning I stated what I had done, pretty early in the day. Thats what I mean by you telling me what i had already said I had done doesn't help your story as much. The part about Mr.W is what I want to know more about. I personally didn't get any information about who was in the room with me last night. Should I ask for that info from Peregrine perhaps?

Originally Posted by Alan T

I didn't learn anything new last night, I still have no items, knowledge of items or anything of the sort. My magical role ability was successful last night I was told, but I guess I don't learn the effects it might have had or what the end result was. I was told that nothing else happened last night. I chose to sleep in the Chamber of Rest, but my PM didnt say anything about it being overbooked or such, so I assume I slept there as planned.

[ntndeacon]

I have at least given a hint of what my role is in my posts today. If need be I can reveal who I am.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Alan T

The below post is what I am referring to. At 6:54am EST this morning I stated what I had done, pretty early in the day. Thats what I mean by you telling me what i had already said I had done doesn't help your story as much. The part about Mr.W is what I want to know more about. I personally didn't get any information about who was in the room with me last night. Should I ask for that info from Peregrine perhaps?

I would it couldn't hurt. but we both were up last night you casting a spell and me making another potion.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Brian, without quoting the exact message that I received, it made two points:
1.) hoopsguy's role
2.) it also specifically told me that he did not have a mundane role

The assumption is that, if a player had both a magical role AND a mundane role, both would be revealed with the SoI.

No arguments there. Here is why I was confused: I used a scroll of identity last night and I identified a Sun member. I know what magical role he is pretending to have, and I know his mundane role as a Sun Scout. I don't know if his mundane role comes with any mundane powers, but I assume it does. Since I don't know about those mundane powers, I assume the scroll doesn't give that info. You claiming to know what Hoops mundane powers were seemed very odd to me. Saying now that he doesn't have a mundane role doesn't really speak to his mundane powers.

Before anyone asks, the Sun member is already cleared so I won't out him. It doesn't seem to help the Cult victory conditions to name him.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I used a potion of alertness on Night 1 (which is how I identified KWhit), but I'm not the alchemist. Using a potion doesn't mean you made it.

it's not the using of a potion that was the important part of my sentence.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I have at least given a hint of what my role is in my posts today. If need be I can reveal who I am.

I have a guess at what your role might be based on what you said before, but its a flat out guess at this point. I'm still torn to how helpful it is for alot of people to reveal their roles if not needed for the same arguements as earlier in the game. You definitly are one of the people I'm seeking more collaberation on right now though...

It would be very easy for PlayerY to say PlayerX isn't a shadow because I know this to try to gain them trust knowing full well that PlayerY is the last shadow.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I think I need to be very clear about this: the green people should not be considered cleared. Having a role is no impediment to being a shadow, otherwise why are there matching roles and players? Peregrine works hard to provide his bad guys cover, having been a bad guy in a previous Peregrine game, and I think this game is no different.

Considering I put a known shadow to sleep last night and obviously couldn't be converted the previous 2 nights I think that should pretty much clear me for now.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I have a guess at what your role might be based on what you said before, but its a flat out guess at this point. I'm still torn to how helpful it is for alot of people to reveal their roles if not needed for the same arguements as earlier in the game. You definitly are one of the people I'm seeking more collaberation on right now though...

It would be very easy for PlayerY to say PlayerX isn't a shadow because I know this to try to gain them trust knowing full well that PlayerY is the last shadow.

And I do realize my listing how I saw what I saw, in itself not enough to clear me. I did want to let the group know of my willingness to reveal it.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

it's not the using of a potion that was the important part of my sentence.

You lost me here. You were refuting Alan's claim that your role as alchemist was unconfirmed by stating that you saw stuff going on while you were awake. You said that you were awake because you used the potion of alertness. How does this confirm your role as alchemist?

[path12]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I wouldn't say this is a power/role or even mundane as it's something we all can do.

Yes, but if you are searching you cannot do your magical role that night per the rules.

[path12]

Originally Posted by path12

Yes, but if you are searching you cannot do your magical role that night per the rules.

D'oh. Stupid. One night per game you can do a mundane plus a magical role.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by BrianD

You lost me here. You were refuting Alan's claim that your role as alchemist was unconfirmed by stating that you saw stuff going on while you were awake. You said that you were awake because you used the potion of alertness. How does this confirm your role as alchemist?

are you or someone else claiming it? would be pretty stupid of someone to claim a role they don't have in hopes the person who really does have it would not speak up.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

4) Joe - claims Researcher (possibly validated based on finding an item?)

Question on this. Couldn't he have found an item in the initial night 0 search? I'm not sure that finding an item is necessarily enough to put him as cleared.

Besides, I don't think it unlikely that a shadow would claim his "role" early in order to try and avoid suspicion.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by path12

Question on this. Couldn't he have found an item in the initial night 0 search? I'm not sure that finding an item is necessarily enough to put him as cleared.

Besides, I don't think it unlikely that a shadow would claim his "role" early in order to try and avoid suspicion.

I "found" an item on Night 0, so I think it is certainly possible. I believe Peregrine indicated that we all performed a search on Night 0.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by path12

Besides, I don't think it unlikely that a shadow would claim his "role" early in order to try and avoid suspicion.

Only reason I claimed right now is that it appears there will only be 1 Shadow left. given that I can only protect for 2 nights, makes more sense for everyone to hole up in a room. 2 or more Shadows, chances are I would expend my use before we caught both.

Not saying you are claiming I'm a Shadow... just stating my reasoning for revealing now.

[SnDvls]

I also found an item on night 0

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

are you or someone else claiming it? would be pretty stupid of someone to claim a role they don't have in hopes the person who really does have it would not speak up.

No, I am not claiming it. I do know that the Sun members got one of the 18 roles and I am guessing that the Shadow were given one of the 18 roles too. Like Alan said, showing evidence of using a magic power should clear people, but using a potion doesn't count. In truth, I'm not sure how you would prove use of your role since I doubt anyone can see you make a potion.

[Joe]

I have not found any items myself, but the possessors of items.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

Question on this. Couldn't he have found an item in the initial night 0 search? I'm not sure that finding an item is necessarily enough to put him as cleared.

Besides, I don't think it unlikely that a shadow would claim his "role" early in order to try and avoid suspicion.

I think Joe's claim was more validated due to knowing who had the mask of whispers. Maybe he shouldn't be as trusted as we feel, but Swaggs also previously stated Joe was higher up in trust too. I'll have to go back and re-read what he posted this morning, but it seemed pretty clear what role he was claiming and it was something that someone else was able to possibly verify.

[BrianD]

I also found an item on Night 0.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Joe

I did not sleep in a common room. Maybe I shouldnt reveal this.. oh well. I slept in hiding place, part of my mundane role. I also know who has the scroll of identity. Or, who had it, if it was used last night. I do not know if it was used or not.

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I slept in the storage room last night and used the scroll of identify as my night action.

I learned the role of one player and whether or not he has a mundane power.

Originally Posted by Joe

swaggs was indeed who o saw had the scroll

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Were you able to see who I used it on?

If so, we could form a semi-COT for the day, as I would be able to know that you were obviously not doing anything "Shadowish," and you obviously know that I was not.

Originally Posted by Joe

No, I was only able to see that it was in your possession, not that it was even used.

This is also more on Joe from the previous day. So both days he seems to have had hits on what he searched for with some sign of validation. I feel ok with joe being in the upper group of trust right now.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I think Joe's claim was more validated due to knowing who had the mask of whispers. Maybe he shouldn't be as trusted as we feel, but Swaggs also previously stated Joe was higher up in trust too. I'll have to go back and re-read what he posted this morning, but it seemed pretty clear what role he was claiming and it was something that someone else was able to possibly verify.

Now that you mention that it rings a bell. I just remember finding it kind of odd that there were two or three people seemingly ready to reveal day 1, but I guess I'll have to go back and read through that again if I get a chance to see.

The most important thing on our agenda should be doing everything possible to ensure a block tonight. If we do that we have an excellent chance to win this tomorrow.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Joe

anyone want to share what they found out last night? I have located the holder of the Mask of Whispers. I believe this person to be good, so I won't say who it is. But if there has been any useful communication maybe it can surface.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Swaggs:
Sun Amulet - that would suggest that you could Identify someone without using a Potion of Identify. Yet Joe seemed to imply (or may have come out and said) that you did have this item. So, when you viewed me did you do it with your role or an item? It is a fairly important note in terms of whether or not you know my role and can vouch for it later if/when I reveal it.

Also, it is pretty clear what role Joe has and if he was correct about you having a potion and can clearly identify the holder of the Mask of Whispers then I would not remotely consider him for a shadow vote today. The person with the Mask communicated with me yesterday, so I can validate a statement on the holder of this item if Joe wants to reveal this information.

Originally Posted by Joe

I would reveal who has the mask of whispers so that they may absolutely clear me, though it may be stolen. I mean, I will if necessary. But with the new info

VOTE TYRITH AND PUNISHMENT

And here is the stuff from today that Joe had with collaboration from hoops. Later they had other posts and seem to both agree on whom the type of person with the mask currently is even though they hadn't both confirmed names.

I don't think having this knowledge helps clear Hoops any, but it feels pretty solid that Joe is who he says he is.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I think Joe's claim was more validated due to knowing who had the mask of whispers. Maybe he shouldn't be as trusted as we feel, but Swaggs also previously stated Joe was higher up in trust too. I'll have to go back and re-read what he posted this morning, but it seemed pretty clear what role he was claiming and it was something that someone else was able to possibly verify.

Joe also knew what item I had.

In my mind, he is as close to non-Shadow as you can get, without having a seer-type check him.

[Swaggs]

Looks like you beat me to it, Alan.

[Swaggs]

I think it is very important that, if DT can legitimately "clear" Chief Rum, he does so today, before we send in our night actions.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think it is very important that, if DT can legitimately "clear" Chief Rum, he does so today, before we send in our night actions.

I'd also still like to hear what Mr. W was doing last night.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think it is very important that, if DT can legitimately "clear" Chief Rum, he does so today, before we send in our night actions.

Do you have any knowledge/suspicion that DT might be able to clear him?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think it is very important that, if DT can legitimately "clear" Chief Rum, he does so today, before we send in our night actions.

I am definitly not making up my mind on night actions until we find out info from Tyrith post-cleansing as well as what else we can find out today. As it is, we currently have more suspects and not-fully cleared people to assure that we can block the shadow tonight.

I'll be sleeping in the Ritual room tonight, but havent figured out who good targets yet are. As it stands Mr.W tops my list. He's been a shadow as far as his participation today at least!

[Lathum]

VOTE NIGHTFALL

If we can get nightfall now it will give us more time to discuss strategy/ question tyrith

[DaddyTorgo]

Been swamped with stuff at work.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

VOTE NIGHTFALL

If we can get nightfall now it will give us more time to discuss strategy/ question tyrith

I agree

Vote Nightfall

[Alan T]

oh.. woops

Vote punishment

vote nightfall

<.<

[Lathum]

I am thinking Mr. Wed may be the sorcerer trying to run interference for the lone shadow.

I plan on using my final hex on him, if it doesn't work then we can assume he is the sorcerer

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Do you have any knowledge/suspicion that DT might be able to clear him?

He wanted me to change my vote for Chief Rum after I made it yesterday. I don't see a real good reason for someone to tie themsef to another player on Day 2, particularly very early in the day, unless they have a pretty good reason.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I am thinking Mr. Wed may be the sorcerer trying to run interference for the lone shadow.

I plan on using my final hex on him, if it doesn't work then we can assume he is the sorcerer

Ok, if you do choose him, make sure I know. He was who I was thinking about as well. I won't go after him if you do.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

He wanted me to change my vote for Chief Rum after I made it yesterday. I don't see a real good reason for someone to tie themsef to another player on Day 2, particularly very early in the day, unless they have a pretty good reason.

Well he also said the same thing about me yesterday and when I called him out on it wondering how he knew I was good based on me not even doing anything the night before, he said it was just a hunch/guess.

[DaddyTorgo]

okay...missed a bunch of lunchtime posts. I can conclusively say that on N1 I did indeed use my power to learn something about CR's power. I don't want to say much more than that at this point, as it potentially could give Shadow information. But I must have read something (honestly don't remember what at this point) that made me think that CR had used his power, and thus was still good.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well he also said the same thing about me yesterday and when I called him out on it wondering how he knew I was good based on me not even doing anything the night before, he said it was just a hunch/guess.

i am still behind on all the afternoon posts that i missed over the last hour.

but my feelings on CR and you are different. you were more a hunch. more of a "here's two villagers trying to tear each other apart" type of dynamic that we usually see from two passionate villagers in a game.

okay i'm starving. anymore from me will hafta wait till after i run out to eat something.

[Swaggs]

Lathum, it says in the roles description that the Sorceror is immune to any kind of magic sleep. Not sure what to do with this info, as it could prove that he is the sorceror (if he does not sleep), but it may not be the best use of your powers.

[Alan T]

7) Kwhit - Cleansed
14) ImTheCrew - Cleansed

4) Joe - claims Researcher (possibly validated based on finding an item?)
8) Lathum - Claims Warlock (proven by sleeping Hoops night 1 and Tyrith last night)
10) Schmidty - Claims Augur (proven with the info on Kwhit)
17) Alan T - Claims Theurgist (proven by action on Barkeep)

6) Barkeep49 - Blocked by Alan last night, couldn't have attempted conversion on swaggs
12) hoopsguy - Vouched as having role by Swaggs. Slept night 1 so couldn't convert Kwhit
16) Path12 - Vouched for by ntndeacon as having some role?

2) BrianD - First to out Kwhit
13) DaddyTorgo - Outed Tyrith

1) Mustang - Claims Spiritmaster (unproven)
5) Swaggs - claims to have Sun Amulet = Wizard? (unproven)
18) SnDvls - Claims Alchemist (unproven)

3) ntndeacon -
9) Chief Rum -
11) Mr. Wednesday -
15) Tyrith - EVIL!

On this list, the people I am concerned about:

Mr.W - No one knows anything about him other than Sndvls says he saw him leave last night.
Chief Rum - DaddyTorgo needs to help us with more validation for him
Ntndeacon - Hinted at a role I don't want to block if he is telling the truth..
Mustang - plans on using a potion on Schmidty which if he is evil could cause us bad problems
Sndvls - No real way to validate his claim
Hoopsguy - If Tyrith did the night 1 convert, Hoops isn't cleared

[Alan T]

Ok, DT seems to better validate Chief Rum, but he sure is being vague about it thats not helping! I'll assume Chief can go on the validated list based on DT vouching for him,

[Alan T]

Ntndeacon, who did you use your magical role on night 1? Last night I assume was Path?

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE NIGHTFALL

i'm going to eat and ponder something in light of what has been brought to light in the past hour.