Obama versus McCain (versus the rest)

[Jas_lov]

How can you not hear the boos? Right when she's walking out onto the ice they're plain as day to hear.

[ISiddiqui]

No, no... they were saying MOOOOOOOSE (hunter)

[Alan T]

I don't know.. I didn't hear any boos when she was announced.. or if there were any, it was hard to pick them up. The only thing i heard was when the crowd yelled for the former Flyers fan that accompanied her out there.

Seems to be a big deal made over nothing here.

[Flasch186]

ROFLMAO

[larrymcg421]

I think the big deal is that she was at a hockey game instead of doing any of the Sunday news shows. Bill Kristol called her out on that on Chris Wallace's show, but I guess he's just part of that "gotcha" media.

She's really turned out to be a complete joke and Bobby Jindal is going to wipe the floor with her in 2012.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I think the big deal is that she was at a hockey game instead of doing any of the Sunday news shows. Bill Kristol called her out on that on Chris Wallace's show, but I guess he's just part of that "gotcha" media.

I guess that makes sense. I don't really think that is a big deal either, because she probably doesn't belong on any of those Sunday news shows either. I think a hockey game seems like a perfect place for her. Take from that what you will

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

That's it. Nail in coffin as to deciding that the people running the McCain campaign may be the worst managers in recent memory. First they let Palin comment on the NK issue and it is in contrast with McCain's but even more important as a managerial plan, they let Palin drop the puck at a Flyers game in Philly! Of course she got booed (and cheered) but they point is on video you definitely hear the boos more so anyone who watches sees that and hears a chorus of boos. You just cant let this stuff happen. You have to control the image and work in a planned environment (as much as is possible). This management team is an utter disaster and I wonder if McCain has anything at all to do with it or if the handlers are the 'experts' and are allowed to do what they do....obviously not well.

I'd drop her puck.....did I say that out loud?

[JPhillips]

It's not a big deal, but these are the fans that booed Santa Claus. If they wanted a hockey event visual go to the Lightning or Panthers. If it had to be in PN, the Penguins would have been a better choice.

[larrymcg421]

This ad is very amusing. It's from GOP Senator Gordon Smith:



He's apparently been running ads like this all year. Not sure it will work, though. The Dems tried this tactic in 2002 and failed miserably.

[SirFozzie]

Interesting article on RCP, an op-ed detailing why the "Bradley Effect" (people who tell pollsters that they will vote for a minority candidate, or are undecided to appear politically correct, but will not vote for a minority), isn't in play in this election:

RealClearPolitics - Articles - The Bradley Effect – Selective Memory

[Young Drachma]

Crossing Over - WSJ.com

A story in the Wall Street Journal about working class woman crossing over for Obama.

Some of the quotes are emblematic of the whole "those folks make me nervous, but I'm losing too much money to go in a different direction" that the political dialogue have seemed to move towards.

Kenlyn Watson, the white owner of a beauty salon here called the Mane Attraction, was certain four weeks ago that she would vote for Sen. McCain. Among other things, she was suspicious that a President Obama "would try to right the injustices of 200 years against the black man in four years." Now, the 50-year-old says she is "on the fence" and seriously considering voting for Sen. Obama.

[Subby]

Spot the FOFCER! I think I spotted Vegas Vic and JiMGa

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

true or not you have to be able to market it to the masses and right now it aint going to fly and theyre running out of time.

McCain has plenty of time left. As McCain will unveil in a new stump speech today, he's got the Democrats right where he wants them.

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - New McCain stump: ‘We’ve got them just where we want them’ « - Blogs from CNN.com

[JPhillips]

Marvin Lewis also announced that the Bengals have the NFL, "right where we want them."

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

McCain has plenty of time left. As McCain will unveil in a new stump speech today, he's got the Democrats right where he wants them.

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - New McCain stump: ‘We’ve got them just where we want them’ « - Blogs from CNN.com

haha -- actually, he said, "My friends, we’ve got them just where we want them."

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

haha -- actually, he said, "My friends, we’ve got them just where we want them."

If McCain means that he wants Obama in the White House, maybe McCain truly is a maverick!

[Arles]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Marvin Lewis also announced that the Bengals have the NFL, "right where we want them."

Golden. The final three weeks will actually be fairly entertaining. I have every SNL on Tivo in anticipation.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

haha -- actually, he said, "My friends, we’ve got them just where we want them."

It's really not nice to mock senility.

[larrymcg421]

Heh. I watched a forum that had two Georgia debates and the party lines got blurred. In the Georgia 8th, Dem Jim Marshall was being attacked for voting for the bailout. In the Georgia Senate debate, Democrat Jim Martin and Libertarian Allen Buckley were attacking Republican Saxby Chambliss for his vote for the bailout.

For the record, I think the incumbent lost both debates. The funniest moment was when Saxby Chambliss defended his vote on the bailout by comparing it to 9/11. I think even Rudy Giuliani is like, "Really?" on that one.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

For the record, I think the incumbent lost both debates.

And, as you know, it's unlikely it will matter in the outcome of either race.

[miked]

I've started to see a lot more Saxby commercials here, which is pretty funny. Two months ago, you wouldn't have known he was running for re-election as Jim Martin commercials were the only one. Now that his polling has dropped, he suddenly feels the need to "state his case" or whatever.

I still think Saxby will convince the good ole boys they need to come out and vote, and he'll end up winning. Such a shame.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And, as you know, it's unlikely it will matter in the outcome of either race.

Probably not. I doubt many people actually saw it, aside from supporters whose votes are determined. But I think Chambliss and especially Marshall are in real trouble this year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Probably not. I doubt many people actually saw it, aside from supporters whose votes are determined. But I think Chambliss and especially Marshall are in real trouble this year.

I don't know if I even think Marshall is in any jeopardy, much less Chambliss.
The benefits of incumbency are extremely difficult to overcome, even more so when the challenges are uninspiring.

[lungs]

More McCain supporters helpin' the cause:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4516866.shtml

[Jas_lov]

Well, that's one way to win with honor. It seems like many McCain supporters are getting really desperate and some are even jumping ship. According to the McCain campaign, even Bill Kristol is now in the tank for Obama-

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/13/...-bill-kristol/

[larrymcg421]

Forget about Bill Ayers. I want to know about Obama's links to this family...

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

McCain has plenty of time left. As McCain will unveil in a new stump speech today, he's got the Democrats right where he wants them.

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - New McCain stump: ‘We’ve got them just where we want them’ « - Blogs from CNN.com

What do you expect him to say? We're finished?

[Fighter of Foo]

Saw this over on Sullivan's blog...

"To recap: anti-war protesters had an anti-war sign, Obama supporters booed McCain, and a heckler called McCain a liar. Yeah, that's pretty much the same as calling Obama a terrorist, a socialist, an Arab, and comparing him to a stuffed monkey."

[Arles]

How quickly we forget:

Originally Posted by 2001

Protesters came from an enormously diverse range of backgrounds and political points of view, from disgruntled backers of “defeated” presidential candidate Al Gore and opponents of the death penalty, to anarchists and socialists.

Protesters chanted slogans and sang songs during the quiet patches and then hurled abuse at the presidential and vice-presidential limousines as they rolled past. Some waved US flags with the word “Sold” printed across it, with the stars replaced with corporate logos; others hoisted placards proclaiming “George Bush, racist murderer”. When it started to hail, demonstrators started singing “Hail to the thief”.

At Dupont Circle, a crowd of more than 1000 gathered to protest Bush's opposition to women's right to choose. When council workers removed an effigy of Bush hanging from a tree.

Green Left - Cover Story: J20: 'Hail to the thief'



Or how about these "non-angry" protests against Bush in the last year plus:


March 2007 in Alameda CA


San Francisco CA March 2007


August 12, 2007 in San Fran

And the best:


Burning Bush in Effigy on Election night, November 2, 2004, San Francisco

[Arles]

The point here is each side uses anger and fear to get votes. When it benefited the left, no one minded election season acts of burning Bush in effigy or hanging him. There would probably be a ton of anger towards McCain and Palin now from the left if anyone felt they had a chance (just look at all the "rape" comments and such against Palin early on). But, no one is angry enough to yell at McCain now because he's a senile old man with no chance.

Both sides have an angry fringe that can be mobilized at a moment's notice. In the event that butterfly ballots are distributed throughout the US and population is confused enough to vote McCain in, I'm sure we'd see a ton of anger from the left like in 2001 and 2004.

[ISiddiqui]

Let's not forget attempts to call Bush a fascist and a Nazi (and I'm sure we've all seen that).

[Big Fo]

I love how the guy with a poster saying "Kill Bush" felt the need to sensor the f-bomb. Once your poster advocates murder you might as well go all in.

[larrymcg421]

My real problem is the way McCain has handled it. He still seems to want to fan the flames. Then he gets the anger built up and can score points for telling a couple of crazies to shut up. I mean, he even equivocated about whether the Virginia GOP Chairman's Obama-Osama comments were appropriate. Whatever.

[Big Fo]

New Rasmussen polls in battleground states:

Florida

Obama 51 (-1)
McCain 46 (+1)


MISSOURI

Obama 50 (Even)
McCain 47 (Even)

N. Carolina

Obama 48 (-1)
McCain 48 (+3)


Ohio

Obama 49 (+2)
McCain 47 (-1)


Virginia

Obama 50 (Even)
McCain 47 (-1)



Despite McCain making slight gains in NC it's still looking pretty good for Obama supporters, Rasmussen has leaned Republican compared to other polls and McCain probably has to sweep all five of these states to have a chance at winning.

[larrymcg421]

Heh. So earlier I showed McCain's ties to Ayers through the Annenbergs. Now it looks like he's buddy buddy with ACORN. I can't wait to find out his ties to Tony Rezko and Jeremiah Wright.

[JPhillips]

Please see 1990s, Clinton.

I won't argue who has the most/worst nuts, but anthring happening now goes back to Clinton and beyond.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

What interests me about it is that I have always seen the left (or those that attend rallies for leftist candidates) to be fucking crazy. I've never really felt that way about politically active conservatives, though I guess that's changing. Is it because there's the smell of a loss in the air? Is it pent up frustration at Bush being such a target for so many years?

It could also be the fact you live in Cambridge

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

What interests me about it is that I have always seen the left (or those that attend rallies for leftist candidates) to be fucking crazy. I've never really felt that way about politically active conservatives, though I guess that's changing. Is it because there's the smell of a loss in the air? Is it pent up frustration at Bush being such a target for so many years?

I think there is a bit of both, but mostly because they see where the polls are going and are getting pissed off that Obama looks like he's going to win and get vast Dem majorities in the House and Senate... and there may be a fear that it could be a realigning election (though we won't know that for sure for 12-20 years).

[Tigercat]

Conservatives are fearful because the conservatives with voices have made it that way.

Liberal is a bad word. The further left you go the closer you get to communism. (Whereas the further right you are just called a libertarian and the like. Never anarchist or fascist, unless you are a wacko protester of course.) The right polarized their side of the debate into clear good and evil moreso than the left.

Is it any wonder that some of followers on the right are scared? Evil is about to win.

[ISiddiqui]

Wait... so the left has never called anyone on the right "fascist"? The last 8 years begs to differ with that POV.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Wait... so the left has never called anyone on the right "fascist"? The last 8 years begs to differ with that POV.

Would you not agree that its much more accepted to call a far left person a socialist or communist than call a far right person a fascist? That conservative can rarely be said with negative connotation but liberal is meant as a bad word?

I hear and read right leaning mainstream(as in not blogs and the like) media call people/policies in the left communists and socialists all the time, I rarely, if ever hear the other side called facists or anarchists in similar situations. (Now in protests, in political discussions, on blogs, and on very rare occasions in regular media? Sure.)

Obama goes on the news today and calls McCain a conservative. The majority of Americans thinks, what? So what? If he is he is? McCain calls Obama a Liberal and he is perceived by nearly everyone as having thrown out a clear insult.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I'm sure that being exposed to the left of the left on a regular basis leaves me with a bad impression of the left in general, which might not be fair. But still, impressions die hard.

The right was pretty hard on Clinton. I think the left is a little worse though, as most leaning left tend to be more emotional with their political views.

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Would you not agree that its much more accepted to call a far left person a socialist or communist than call a far right person a fascist? That conservative can rarely be said with negative connotation but liberal is meant as a bad word?

If the left would just embrace the liberal term like the right has conservative, I doubt there would be much of an issue. Yet, for some reason, those on the left don't like being called liberal. That has made the term "more negative" than conservative.

I hear and read right leaning mainstream(as in not blogs and the like) media call people/policies in the left communists and socialists all the time, I rarely, if ever hear the other side called facists or anarchists in similar situations. (Now in protests, in political discussions, on blogs, and on very rare occasions in regular media? Sure.)

There is a lot of socialistic ideas in the democratic party. But, that's not the same as fascism - there are many solid western countries who have embraced socialism - not too many who have embraced fascism. A better parallel to the socialism claim would be the "unbridled capitalism" that one can't go a day without hearing from those leaning left when talking about republicans.

Obama goes on the news today and calls McCain a conservative. The majority of Americans thinks, what? So what? If he is he is? McCain calls Obama a Liberal and he is perceived by nearly everyone as having thrown out a clear insult.

That's because, for whatever reason, the democratic party is afraid to admit they have liberal ideas. When right started calling the left "liberal", the left could have said "so what?" and disarmed it. Instead, they ran from it like the plague making most non-political voters think there's something wrong with the term.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Arles

When it benefited the left, no one minded election season acts of burning Bush in effigy or hanging him.

I look forward to your substantiation of this claim.

Using the same logic, "no one" minded when people ridiculed John Kerry's military service.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Arles

The right was pretty hard on Clinton. I think the left is a little worse though, as most leaning left tend to be more emotional with their political views.

I don't think this generalization is true. Watch any rally with Palin. The die-hard social conservatives in the GOP are plenty emotional. And as 2000 and 2004 proved, there are plenty of them out there.

You're trying to perpetuate this incorrect meme of left-of-center Americans as childlike, emotional and out of touch with reality, and right-of-center Americans as rational, calm, self-starters. It's a Rovian caricature not based in fact.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I don't think this generalization is true. Watch any rally with Palin. The die-hard social conservatives in the GOP are plenty emotional. And as 2000 and 2004 proved, there are plenty of them out there.

You're trying to perpetuate this incorrect meme of left-of-center Americans as childlike, emotional and out of touch with reality, and right-of-center Americans as rational, calm, self-starters. It's a Rovian caricature not based in fact.

ohhhh...SNAP

[Kodos]

Not to mention, it's emotional, nutty conservatives who shoot/bomb/burn abortion clinics/the doctors who work in them. Or call people Arabs who clearly are not. Or yell "kill him" at rallies. Or say we should nuke the Middle East into glass.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Would you not agree that its much more accepted to call a far left person a socialist or communist than call a far right person a fascist?

No, I wouldn't agree. The amount of times I've heard Bush is a fascist over the last 8 years completely disabuses me of that notion.

That conservative can rarely be said with negative connotation but liberal is meant as a bad word?

I hear and read right leaning mainstream(as in not blogs and the like) media call people/policies in the left communists and socialists all the time, I rarely, if ever hear the other side called facists or anarchists in similar situations. (Now in protests, in political discussions, on blogs, and on very rare occasions in regular media? Sure.)

Obama goes on the news today and calls McCain a conservative. The majority of Americans thinks, what? So what? If he is he is? McCain calls Obama a Liberal and he is perceived by nearly everyone as having thrown out a clear insult.

As Arles pointed out, if the left adopted the term and told the right to shut up, it wouldn't have been a negative. The left seems to reject being called "liberal" and seems to prefer "progressive".

In the regular media I hear the right call the left socialist, but also the left call the right authoritarian (or authoritarian policies). What's worse?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

No, I wouldn't agree. The amount of times I've heard Bush is a fascist over the last 8 years completely disabuses me of that notion.

I try to call him a fascist AT LEAST once a day. And we're related.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Arles

Burning Bush in Effigy on Election night, November 2, 2004, San Francisco

Maybe they were just misinterpreting the story about Moses and the burning bush in their play about Passover

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

No, no... they were saying MOOOOOOOSE (hunter)

"I was saying Boo-urns"

SI