Obama versus McCain (versus the rest)

[Flasch186]

Well I do agree with McCain on the suspension of forced stock sales for retirees.

McCain proposes suspending mandatory stock sales - Yahoo! News

[King of New York]

Originally Posted by Axxon

I'm going to take this moment to say that while I often don't agree with his position I don't think there's one guy I respect and enjoy reading more than George Will. I'll guarantee every time he's going to make me think. I'm going to miss him when he retires.

I feel exactly the same way. Daniel Larison and Ross Douthat are almost as good, but they do not write quite as well.

[Young Drachma]

Barack Obama Supporter Buttons : Barack Obama 2008

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by stevew

What happens if Obama can not produce a birth certificate and/or if he really was born overseas?

His buddies at ACORN could probably crank one out, if needed.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Well I do agree with McCain on the suspension of forced stock sales for retirees.

McCain proposes suspending mandatory stock sales - Yahoo! News

I knew it, McCain is a Manchurian candidate for the AARP.

[larrymcg421]

Looks like the Georgia Senate race really is competitive:

SurveyUSA: Chambliss 46-44
Research 2000: Chambliss 45-44
Strategic Vision (R): Chambliss 47-44
Rasmussen: Chambliss 50-44
InAdv/PollPosition: Tie 45-45

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

How does this play with the rules on neutrality/equal time? I remember there being a case where Cali channels showing Arnold movies "unfairly" gave him more time than his opponents. Is there anything along those lines in presidential elections?

Reader's Digest version of an answer: It exists, but as long as the same opportunity is afforded each candidate then it's all good.

Nothing says they have to run equal schedules, just that they're entitled to the same opportunity to buy the same thing at the same prices (which are required to be the lowest rate given to any advertiser during the past several months aka "political rate" or "lowest unit rate").

[JonInMiddleGA]

TROY, N.Y. — Who is running for president? In an upstate New York county, hundreds of voters have been sent absentee ballots in which they could vote for "Barack Osama."

The absentee ballots sent to voters in Rensselaer County identified the two presidential candidates as "Barack Osama" and "John McCain." In the United States, the best-known person named Osama is Osama bin Laden, leader of the al-Qaida terrorist group.

Commissioners for the Rensselaer County Board of Elections say they regret the error but do not acknowledge in a statement exactly what the error is.

The botched ballots were first reported by the Times-Union of Albany.

[larrymcg421]

Two things

1) If it's intentional, then that's pretty fucking stupid. McCain isn't going to win New York because of an incorrect name on a couple hundred absentee ballots.

2) If it's not intentional, then who the fuck is doing QA for this county? Creed?

[SirFozzie]

well, money could rule this race, and the level of fundraising difference at all levels between the Democrats and the Republicans could really hurt (Note: I thought Obama's 50 state campaign was not a good idea, but with the economy making it a 50 state issue, it turned out to be the right (if lucky) play.

We’re starting to see the first tangible impact of the financial deficit that House Republicans are facing.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/scorec...k_ad_buys.html

The National Republican Congressional Committee, after reserving advertising time in 26 Congressional districts, has begun to cancel or dramatically scale back some of its ad reservations across the country. Many of the hardest-hit candidates are among the GOP’s leading challengers.

[DaddyTorgo]

hey - have we seen the Troopergate report yet? Thought that was being released today...

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

TROY, N.Y. — Who is running for president? In an upstate New York county, hundreds of voters have been sent absentee ballots in which they could vote for "Barack Osama."

That's hillarious. It will be even more hillarious when republican poll-watchers contest any Obama absentee votes on the basis of "Barack Osama" not being a declared candidate for president.

[Flasch186]

Alaska lawmakers review Palin trooper report - CNN.com

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (CNN) -- Alaska lawmakers huddled behind closed doors Friday to review a report on Gov. Sarah Palin's firing of her public safety commissioner, who says he was sacked for resisting pressure to fire the governor's ex-brother-in-law.
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is under investigation for the firing of her public safety commissioner.

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is under investigation for the firing of her public safety commissioner.

The bipartisan Legislative Council went into executive session to discuss the report from former Anchorage prosecutor Stephen Branchflower before its scheduled release. But state Senate President Lyda Green told reporters outside the meeting room, "It's going to be hours."

Only a portion of the report is scheduled to be made public after the executive session, said state Sen. Kim Elton, the Legislative Council's chairman. A second part of the report contains "confidential" information and will be kept under wraps, said Elton, a Democrat who has been under fire from Palin's supporters.

State Rep. Peggy Wilson, a Republican member of the council, said the total report ran about 1,000 pages.

"This is a pretty serious thing, and I don't feel comfortable even talking about it until I've got it all read," she said.

Palin, now the Republican vice presidential nominee, told reporters at a campaign stop in Ohio on Thursday that she has "absolutely nothing to hide" in the investigation.

"It's a governor's right and responsibility to make sure that they have the right people in the right place at the right time to best serve the people who hired them, and for me, the people of Alaska, so my Cabinet's got to be the right Cabinet for the people of Alaska," she said.
Don't Miss

* Palin's husband testifies he never pressured official
* Lawmakers defend Palin inquiry
* Read Todd Palin's testimony in probe (PDF)

Ahead of Friday's hearing, Palin supporters wearing clown costumes and carrying balloons denounced the hearing as a "kangaroo court" and a "three-ring circus" led by supporters of Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential candidate.

The McCain-Palin campaign has leveled similar allegations routinely, including in a 21-page "analysis" of the case it distributed Thursday night.

The former public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan, has said he was fired in July after refusing pressure to sack Palin's ex-brother-in-law, State Trooper Mike Wooten. Wooten was involved in an acrimonious divorce and custody battle with Palin's sister, and Palin and her husband describe him as "rogue trooper" who had threatened the family.

Palin originally agreed to cooperate with the Legislative Council inquiry, and disclosed in August that her advisers had contacted Department of Public Safety officials nearly two dozen times regarding her ex-brother-in-law.

But once she became Sen. John McCain's running mate, her advisers began painting the investigation as a weapon of Democratic partisans. They began to straight-arm the inquiry, calling it illegitimate, and attacked Democratic state Sen. Hollis French, the lawmaker managing the investigation, for a September 2 interview in which he warned the inquiry could yield an "October surprise" for the GOP ticket.

"The Palins are right to be concerned about the fairness of the Legislative Council investigation," the campaign analysis states. "The governor has consistently demonstrated, in statements and through documents she has made available, that she reassigned Mr. Monegan because of legitimate policy differences and disputes over the budget."

Palin's office in September released documents it said supported its position. The documents were part of a filing to the state Personnel Board, which Palin's office has asked to conduct a separate investigation. The governor and her allies say the board is the proper legal forum for any complaint, and Palin's lawyer says she and her husband will cooperate with that inquiry.

[Flasch186]

Can't wait to get the results and put this baby to bed. It's a shame that when it's all said and done Palin has left open a window where her opponents could arue that her lack of cooperation has led to a report that is incomplete while still opening the door to saying that the results are biased due to French's partisan stance. It is unfortunate to no end that we will get this out and truly not have results that either side can say is the "truth" which is what I had hoped for the whole time.

[larrymcg421]

Heh. Here's an Oct. 8th press release from the McCain campaign, listing people that have endorsed John McCain. One of the entries is particularly interesting:

Lenore Annenberg, Chief of Protocol -- Radnor, Penn.

Woops!

[sterlingice]

(I... don't get it)

SI

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

(I... don't get it)

SI

Barack Obama and William Ayers participated in the Annenberg Challenge, which was run by William Annenberg and his wife Leonore.

[Big Fo]

Today the McCain camp came out with a passionate defense of their more hateful and bigoted supporters.

From NBC's Mark Murray

Earlier today, Obama remarked on recent outbursts of "Traitor!" "Terrorist!" and "Kill him!" at McCain campaign events. "It's easy to rile up a crowd," Obama said. "Nothing's easier than riling up a crowd by stoking anger and division. But that's not what we need right now in the United States."

In response, McCain senior adviser Nicolle Wallace released this statement, NBC's Kelly O'Donnell reports. "Barack Obama's assault on our supporters is insulting and unsurprising. These are the same people obama called 'bitter' and attacked for 'clinging to guns' and faith. He fails to understand that people are angry at corrupt practices in Washington and Wall Street and he fails to understand that America's working families are not 'clinging' to anything other than the sincere hope that Washington will be reformed from top to bottom."

"Attacking our supporters is a new low for the campaign that's run more millions of dollars of negative ads than any other in history."

*** UPDATE *** McCain campaign spokesman Brian Rogers adds in another statement: “Barack Obama’s attacks on Americans who support John McCain reveal far more about him than they do about John McCain. It is clear that Barack Obama just doesn’t understand regular people and the issues they care about. He dismisses hardworking middle class Americans as clinging to guns and religion, while at the same time attacking average Americans at McCain rallies who are angry at Washington, Wall Street and the status quo."

[DaddyTorgo]

LOL @ Big Fo's post. Wow...that's just...wow. They expect people to buy that?

[Flasch186]

the vitriolic comments at McCain's camp (or Obama's should they occur or if they are) would paint any campaign into a tough corner in this environment the country finds itself in. For the most part the economic thinking has made it so that any negativity is seen in a light of being flimsy and perhaps childish. At this juncture in a campaign, with a gap in the polls as evidenced, a campaign may need to go negative to get back in it. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your side), strategically, the McCain campaign, in this instance, finds itself with an arrow in its quiver that isn't getting the response it is supposed to get. Interesting.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Today the McCain camp came out with a passionate defense of their more hateful and bigoted supporters.

Wow, that's not even good bullshit. Republicans are better at winning elections than Democrats because they usually have a really good sense of how far to push, and in which direction. But that spin doesn't even make sense.

[Vegas Vic]

Obama the Messiah?

[Flasch186]

and?

[Flasch186]

BTW, who knew that the woman (a McCain supporter) would say the "...he's an Arab." comment (which is untrue) and make something that McCain shouldnt have had to defend, something he had to defend in front of all of his supporters. Not something the handlers wouldve wanted I am sure.

[Buccaneer]

I think of many other things to put one's faith into besides the federal government.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Today the McCain camp came out with a passionate defense of their more hateful and bigoted supporters.

(article snip)

Quoting myself here but I would like to show that McCain has denounced some of the more extreme statements his supporters have been making about Obama.

The anger is getting raw at Republican rallies and John McCain is acting to tamp it down. McCain was booed by his own supporters Friday when, in an abrupt switch from raising questions about Barack Obama's character, he described the Democrat as a "decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared of as president of the United States."

...

"If you want a fight, we will fight," McCain said. "But we will be respectful. I admire Sen. Obama and his accomplishments." When people booed, he cut them off.

"I don't mean that has to reduce your ferocity," he said. "I just mean to say you have to be respectful."

From McCain booed after trying to calm anti-Obama crowd

Here's a video of him (that Flasch might be referring to a few posts up) correcting a supporter who states that Obama is an Arab, followed by McCain saying Obama is a decent family man and some applause from the crowd.

youtube link

[Flasch186]

BREAKING NEWS

Palin abused power but broke no laws.

She violated an AK statute, violated trust.

Although Monegan wasn't solely fired due to his not firing of Wooten, it was a 'contributing factor'.

She was also within her rights as a Governor to hire or fire an individual.


CONSIDERING THIS

Had she cooperated and everyone else cooperated, this would be case closed. By her not cooperating and encouraging others to snub subpoenas this, I am sure, will carry on, which is a shame.


Alaska panel finds Palin abused power in firing - Yahoo! News

Alaska panel finds Palin abused power in firing

By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer 23 minutes ago

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - A legislative committee investigating Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has found she unlawfully abused her authority in firing the state's public safety commissioner. The investigative report concludes that a family grudge wasn't the sole reason for firing Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan but says it likely was a contributing factor.

The Republican vice presidential nominee has been accused of firing a commissioner to settle a family dispute. Palin supporters have called the investigation politically motivated.

Monegan says he was dismissed as retribution for resisting pressure to fire a state trooper involved in a bitter divorce with the governor's sister. Palin says Monegan was fired as part of a legitimate budget dispute.

from FoxNews

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10...-commissioner/

ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- A state legislative panel has concluded that Sarah Palin abused her power in the firing of the state's public safety commissioner.

The investigative report concludes that a family grudge wasn't the sole reason for firing Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan but says it likely was a contributing factor.

The findings were released after lawmakers emerged Friday from a private session in Anchorage where they spent more than six hours discussing a politically charged ethics report into the firing by Gov. Palin.

The legislative panel began its public session by discussing whether to release the report's findings. The investigation was examining whether Palin, the Republican vice presidential nominee, fired a state commissioner to settle a family dispute. The report also is expected to touch on whether Palin's husband meddled in state affairs and whether her administration inappropriately accessed employee medical records.

Critics claim Palin fired Monegan after months of pressure on him to fire Mike Wooten, a state trooper involved in a nasty divorce and custody dispute with the governor's sister.

"I think there are some problems in this report," Republican state Sen. Gary Stevens. "I would encourage people to be very cautious, to look at this with a jaundiced eye."

Have to laugh at that last line.

[JPhillips]

It's all so confusing. Just yesterday a report came out that said Palin didn't do anything wrong. Who should I believe?

[Flasch186]

Well, at least she hasn't shot someone so it's a step in the right direction.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

At this juncture in a campaign, with a gap in the polls as evidenced, a campaign may need to go negative to get back in it.

It's the only hope, but alas McCain appears to have already given up & resigned himself to the loss. And that's why those who even bother to show up for the rallies are starting to turn on him. The difference now is that hoping against hope that he was more than expected has pretty much faded.

Unless he grows a pair in the next few days & decides he actually wants to make an effort to win, it's over put a fork in him. Losing by landslide proportions might even be a strong possible if he doesn't step it up several notches. Unmotivated voters could very well stay home in big numbers if the Chan Gailey of GOP candidates doesn't get it together.

On a sidenote, somebody remind me what happens to the Nov. election if McCain were to, say, keel over dead between now & then? I'm thinking he remains on the ballots at this point but to be honest I'm not sure off hand. Is there some policy that covers all 50 states under federal law or would individual state laws dictate how that would be dealt with?

[Flasch186]

What Jackasses, McCain's camp is citing the report as evidence that she acted within her rights but then slam the report as a "partisan" investigation. Talk about having your cake. If you want to use the report as evidence to uphold your claim than you should also put some weight in the report itself, not minimize it and then use it to bolster your claim. who the fuck is running this shit show?

[Tigercat]

It would be up to the parties, they have their own procedures. If its after the election the VP takes over.

[stevew]

Yeah. The patient has already expired. They are just waiting for a doctor to come in and call the time of death

[NoMyths]

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yeah. The patient has already expired. They are just waiting for a doctor to come in and call the time of death

701pm, Nov 4, 2008

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

It would be up to the parties, they have their own procedures. If its after the election the VP takes over.

Well that's what I thought about if it happened, say, right after the convention.
But with early voting already underway in some (all?) states, I wasn't completely sure.

My guess would have been that notices would be posted at polling places to the effect that votes for the the McCain/Palin ticket indicated on the ballot would be counted as a "Replacement/Palin" or "Palin/Replacement" vote.

[lighthousekeeper]

nm

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

BREAKING NEWS

Palin abused power but broke no laws.

BREAKING NEWS

Bush abused powder but broke no laws...

[mtolson]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

WOW !!!!! This kind of supports the recently raised race issues. I am very proud of how McCain handled the situation. That was very honorable. He's in a no win situation with some of his supporters.

[Fidatelo]

I do feel bad for McCain when I watch that clip. He handled that well. And that woman should be put to pasture.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by mtolson

WOW !!!!! This kind of supports the recently raised race issues. I am very proud of how McCain handled the situation. That was very honorable. He's in a no win situation with some of his supporters.

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I do feel bad for McCain when I watch that clip. He handled that well. And that woman should be put to pasture.

I am first saddened that a great American hero like John McCain, and I do mean that in all seriousness had to get dragged through the mud like this and be assoicated with these spiteful and ignorant people. Now, of course he has no one but himself (and the fuck assholes like Palin, Rick Davis, Schmidt he employed. I see him as a misunderstood charcter in all this not all that dissimilar from the Star Wars Anakin Skywalker when he was used by the Emperor and tricked into becoming the evil Darth Vader.

But, more importantly McCain reminded me not since Obama was nominated that how proud I am of this fine country and to be an American. So, though I am a huge Obama supporter I say thanks and job well done today by John McCain. He showed us all in these very difficult times what it is to be an american and what it means to stand up to oppression, ignorance and racism. I am sure once the election is over if Obama wins he will mention this very same thing in his vctory speech when he speaks of McCain.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

BREAKING NEWS

Palin abused power but broke no laws.

She violated an AK statute, violated trust.

Although Monegan wasn't solely fired due to his not firing of Wooten, it was a 'contributing factor'.

She was also within her rights as a Governor to hire or fire an individual

I think it's a fair conclusion by the investigator. He essentially said she had the right (and even some reasons) to remove Monegan, but that she did not stop her husband's actions to contact subordinates and he put pressure on Monegan to fire Wooten. The biggest complaint in the report was that she didn't stop him initially when she knew he was doing this.

She should take a bit of a hit for not preventing her husband from contacting these people using her resources, but it's also important to note that she didn't directly contact Monegan on the issue and had other cause to remove him.

In the end, I can't see much coming from this given everything else that has happened - but I think it is a fair report.

[Mac Howard]

I've just seen the latest video from McCain and he may yet get some traction with it. He's going after Barney Frank and Chris Dodd as the architects of the current crisis. There's a lot of anger over this and a demand that blame be placed on whoever's responsible and this could play well. Currently Obama has benefited considerably from the crisis because it's happened on Bush's watch (though as far as I can see Bush hasn't a great deal of responsibility) but if McCain can present Democrats and their wish to promote mortgages to the lower end of town as the initial cause of the trouble he may yet pull some of his deficit back or at least eliminate some of the advantage Obama is gaining.
.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Tongue in cheek here... I can see this commercial upcoming.

John McCain likes and respects Barack Obama. John McCain says that Barack Obama is a terrorist sympathizer. John McCain likes and respects a man he believes to be a terrorist sympathizer. Can we really trust John McCain?

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Arles

I think it's a fair conclusion by the investigator. He essentially said she had the right (and even some reasons) to remove Monegan, but that she did not stop her husband's actions to contact subordinates and he put pressure on Monegan to fire Wooten. The biggest complaint in the report was that she didn't stop him initially when she knew he was doing this.

She should take a bit of a hit for not preventing her husband from contacting these people using her resources, but it's also important to note that she didn't directly contact Monegan on the issue and had other cause to remove him.

In the end, I can't see much coming from this given everything else that has happened - but I think it is a fair report.

except for the headlines and people who will interpret the 'Abuse of Power' in big bold print to be bad, bad, bad but maybe that's the hit youre talking aboot.

[Jon]

I'm not sure what difference the report is going to make. But, the report did not say that Palin did not break any laws. It said she didn't violate any laws by firing the guy. It did conclude, however, that she violated the Alaska ethics law by abusing her power and placing pressure on subordinates to fire the trooper.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

I've just seen the latest video from McCain and he may yet get some traction with it. He's going after Barney Frank and Chris Dodd as the architects of the current crisis. There's a lot of anger over this and a demand that blame be placed on whoever's responsible and this could play well. Currently Obama has benefited considerably from the crisis because it's happened on Bush's watch (though as far as I can see Bush hasn't a great deal of responsibility) but if McCain can present Democrats and their wish to promote mortgages to the lower end of town as the initial cause of the trouble he may yet pull some of his deficit back or at least eliminate some of the advantage Obama is gaining.
.

I'm not sure that this is going to work at this point, because there is a perception that McCain is just grabbing at straws. Besides the fact that it's not really accurate, I think any traction he might gain would be ended by the anger people will have when they realize that McCain hasn't proposed anything that benefits the middle class and what he has proposed is really more corporate welfare (the part of buying the mortgages at face value) and in violation of the bailout that just passed.

[SteveMax58]

I think the biggest issue for McCain, preventing a substantial comeback at this point, is that he supported the bailout. He lost his ability to make the case that the American people will need to fix the economic problems(as we always have), prosecute those who abused the system, pass legislation to ensure we do not allow this level of abuse again, and that Obama and the Dems want to continue the bad policies and fundamentally flawed ideology that brought us here(i.e. home ownership, health care, new cars, etc. are all "entitlements" that everybody should have, regardless of whether your contribution to society warrants it).

I think he's painted himself in the same corner that Hillary did...there are just not enough differentiators on the issues that are most relevant to people (at the moment). So it comes down to the ability to articulate and demonstrate composure...2 things Obama does much better than McCain.

[Noop]

[Big Fo]

Joe Six-Pack!