The OFFICIAL 2008-09 NHL Offseason Thread

[Draft Dodger]

and a lot of Oiler fans seem ecstatic about the deal.

one blog:
"Horcoff is an in-his-prime, legitimate number one centre, and he contributes nothing but positives in every aspect of the game."

legitimate #1? maybe I'm not watching the right guy.

I'm not saying he's bad, but his 2nd best season in the NHL is 51 points, and he's been doing this for 7 years. I guess this is more a complaint about the cap, because I like Horcoff. That just seems like an awful lot of money.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I like Horcoff too. He works hard. He's a good team player and has some talent. But he doesn't really seem like a true #1 center, though I think a very good and capable #2 center.

That does seem like a lot of money...

[Fidatelo]

Horcoff should be a second line center. That said, the contract doesn't seem that outrageous given what's been going on all month.

[johnnyshaka]

While I agree Horcoff is a 2nd line center, I also think the deal is a fair price especially considering what he'd likely get on the open market at the end of this season...provided he picks up where he left off.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

While I agree Horcoff is a 2nd line center, I also think the deal is a fair price especially considering what he'd likely get on the open market at the end of this season...provided he picks up where he left off.

I was just hoping he'd hit the open market. So long as he's with the Oilers and making this kind of coin with MacT at coach pretty much means he's got that #1 spot to himself. I'd like to think we might have somebody on the team who'll surpass him within a season or two for that role or could have shopped for a 2-3 year answer after this season after his current contract (and Roli's) came off the books. I hope to be proven wrong, but if this move contributes to Gagner being held back for the duration of Horcoff's deal that'd be even worse than the money that was thrown Horcoff's way.

But hey, I also thought we should ink Stoll to a one year deal to see if he could bounce back and regain his form on the cheap rather than trading him at a sell low point, so I'm obviously miles away from Lowe's thought process at this point.

[johnnyshaka]

I see where you're coming from, Travis, but if you let Horcoff go at the end of the season who do you replace him with? There isn't going to be much available to replace Horc's 20-25 minutes a night and if you do find somebody comparable you aren't going to get him for less than $7-8 million a season and he likely won't be a guy you can stick on the ice in virtually every situation (ie. PP, shorthanded, big faceoff late in the game, or against the top line).

[Travis]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I see where you're coming from, Travis, but if you let Horcoff go at the end of the season who do you replace him with? There isn't going to be much available to replace Horc's 20-25 minutes a night and if you do find somebody comparable you aren't going to get him for less than $7-8 million a season and he likely won't be a guy you can stick on the ice in virtually every situation (ie. PP, shorthanded, big faceoff late in the game, or against the top line).

A lot comes down to how guys play this year, but when it came to PK/faceoffs, I'd have still rather had Stoll out there than Horcoff. Even removing him from the picture (obviously), you've got Cogliano, Brodziak, Moreau and Pisani who can all play big PK minutes and well. I'd also like to see them use Hemsky more on the PK, whether or not that happens, who knows. I've personally been impressed with how Pouliot plays at both ends of the ice and do not subscribe to the notion of trying to turn him into a power forward (as it seems the organization's biggest knock on him is that he's not physical enough). He's shown solid defensive skills and is one of the few forwards on the team who'll actually cut to the middle in the offensive zone and challenge a defender one on one.

PP wise, we've got a pretty good collection of talent to throw on the ice that should only grow and mature this season. Horcoff's best attribute on the PP is on the dot and then to stand in front of the net.

And really, it's not a huge knock on Horcoff, I think he'd be a very solid #2 center, but given the guys coming through and the fact this contract keeps him here until he's what, 36, just makes me wonder why he got Smyth's contract when we wouldn't give it to him.

I guess I'd just rather take the gamble on the young guys if we couldn't nab a true #1 in free agency or trade next year than to potentially create a roadblock for that young talent for an extra 6 seasons.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Travis

But hey, I also thought we should ink Stoll to a one year deal to see if he could bounce back and regain his form on the cheap rather than trading him at a sell low point, so I'm obviously miles away from Lowe's thought process at this point.

Something tells me that Stoll (and Torres for that matter) were turning into distractions in the dressing room. I don't have any info to back that up, just a vibe I get from those two. It also wouldn't surprise me to hear that Stoll politely asked Lowe to be traded...again, just speculation on my part.

Again, I see your point on selling low on Stoll, but with the way the kids stepped up last season I just don't see where Stoll would've fit into the lineup...especially last year's iteration of Jarret Stoll...the crappy one. We've got lots of guys who can kill penalties and we've also got, knock on wood, a healthy Souray on the point, not to mention Gilbert and Visnovsky who I'm guessing will see a lot of powerplay time. I still think that deal made us better and I don't think we would've gotten much more had we waited.

Besides, I won't miss seeing him break two sticks a game!!!

[johnnyshaka]

I think our top two lines are pretty much plug 'n' play. Especially once the kids get a little more seasoning, I don't think we'll have distinct first and second lines but instead have two good lines that could cause problems for any team.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Something tells me that Stoll (and Torres for that matter) were turning into distractions in the dressing room. I don't have any info to back that up, just a vibe I get from those two. It also wouldn't surprise me to hear that Stoll politely asked Lowe to be traded...again, just speculation on my part.

Again, I see your point on selling low on Stoll, but with the way the kids stepped up last season I just don't see where Stoll would've fit into the lineup...especially last year's iteration of Jarret Stoll...the crappy one. We've got lots of guys who can kill penalties and we've also got, knock on wood, a healthy Souray on the point, not to mention Gilbert and Visnovsky who I'm guessing will see a lot of powerplay time. I still think that deal made us better and I don't think we would've gotten much more had we waited.

Besides, I won't miss seeing him break two sticks a game!!!

Oh, fair enough points on all accounts, I guess my biggest issues so far this offseason is that Lowe is giving up on cheap options (and I knew with Torres it was a matter of time and fully support him being dealt, in Stoll's case I just think that we'd have gotten him signed to a cheap one year deal because of last year and with him still being a RFA after this season could have gotten a better return for him if he showed any semblance of returning to past form, but fully agreed, if there were locker room issues, good on Lowe for getting that taken care of).

In the end, even with Stoll removed from the picture entirely, I just see the Horcoff deal as working against the system of the new NHL. Signing a guy who is a #2 center in his prime to a deal that locks him up until he's 36 will make him near impossible to move and may limit guys with much brighter futures. One can only hope that MacT (or whoever eventually takes over for him) will be fair when it comes to who has earned that #1 role, but given track record, well that faith is pretty thin at best for me.

[johnnyshaka]

I'd be curious to see the details of the contract...is it something like Vinny's where the last year or two are essentially league minimum?? If so, moving him, or whatever, at the end of his deal might not be as tough as it sounds. Although I'm not up to snuff on how contracts are factored into salary cap rules and all that jazz.

I know we'll have to agree to disagree on this and that's fine but I do like the way our team is shaping up this season provided Garon proves to be as good as we think he can be...if not, we could be in a world of hurt especially if we get hit with the injury bug yet again.

Now, with that out of the way...are you sure you don't want to play baseball?? We're going to be in tough over the next week or two for our final couple of games and we need some warm bodies!!!!!

[Travis]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I'd be curious to see the details of the contract...is it something like Vinny's where the last year or two are essentially league minimum?? If so, moving him, or whatever, at the end of his deal might not be as tough as it sounds. Although I'm not up to snuff on how contracts are factored into salary cap rules and all that jazz.

I know we'll have to agree to disagree on this and that's fine but I do like the way our team is shaping up this season provided Garon proves to be as good as we think he can be...if not, we could be in a world of hurt especially if we get hit with the injury bug yet again.

Now, with that out of the way...are you sure you don't want to play baseball?? We're going to be in tough over the next week or two for our final couple of games and we need some warm bodies!!!!!

Not sure of accuracy, but according to nhlnumbers.com, they've got Horcoff making 7, 6.5, 6.5 and 6 for the first 4 years of the extension, so that'd leave 7 million over the final two years (if their information is correct). I'm not sure how it works cap wise for trading, but I'd assume that the receiving team would have to be on the hook for the actual contract portion while their cap would be hit by the average. I think the advantage to front loaded contracts is more if a guy is released/bought out, but I'm not even close to sure on how that works.

As for ball, well, I'd still like to, but I'd definitely need some practice first. I'm hoping to give it a good run next season assuming I don't have any more set backs with my knee and if I can still make contact with a fastball because I never could hit a curve.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Travis

I think the advantage to front loaded contracts is more if a guy is released/bought out, but I'm not even close to sure on how that works.

The advantage for trading comes with teams like Atlanta that are cash poor and need to hit the cap floor. They can add 6-7 million towards the cap by only paying 3-4 million in actual cash. So while a team that is up against the cap wants to ditch guys that are under performing their cap number, a team such as Atlanta will be glad to take them off their hands.

[Dr. Sak]

The schedule is out.

Flyers open at home against the Rangers and finish in NY against....the Rangers. Looks like we can start the Rags season out shitty and end it shitty...just like their team

[RomaGoth]

The Wings begin the season at Atlanta *meh*.....but follow that up with a home & home with Toronto . I love the rivalry games (Chicago and Toronto come to mind).

[MikeVic]

I can't find the Jets' schedule?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

The Wings begin the season at Atlanta *meh*.....but follow that up with a home & home with Toronto . I love the rivalry games (Chicago and Toronto come to mind).

Are you talking pre-season or regular season?

According to the schedule I saw, the Wings start the regular season at home against Toronto.

It's Game 1 of the Jeff Finger Era.

When it gets closer to game time, I will be sure to post an explanation of what all the pre-game ceremony stuff is about for all our reisdent Leafs fans. They may be confused.

[samifan24]

Has anyone ever met an actual Atlanta Thrashers fan? Like, in real life? A living, breathing Thrashers fan. Do they exist?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Are you talking pre-season or regular season?

According to the schedule I saw, the Wings start the regular season at home against Toronto.

Yeah, I didn't look at it correctly. The Atlanta game is part of the preseason schedule.

It's Game 1 of the Jeff Finger Era.

When it gets closer to game time, I will be sure to post an explanation of what all the pre-game ceremony stuff is about for all our reisdent Leafs fans. They may be confused.

I actually laughed out loud at this and got some odd looks from co-workers. As it stands, The Toronto "wooden skates" Maple Leafs have 13 Stanley Cups, while the Detroit Red Wings have 11 Stanley Cups. I am wagering that a decade from now, the Maple Leafs will still have 13 Cups. Unfortunately for them and their fans, that will put them in third place behind Montreal and Detroit, respectively.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by samifan24

Has anyone ever met an actual Atlanta Thrashers fan? Like, in real life? A living, breathing Thrashers fan. Do they exist?

I didn't even know they had a team before now. I always thought they were called the Atlanta Braves/Hawks/Falcons or some such thing.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I actually laughed out loud at this and got some odd looks from co-workers. As it stands, The Toronto "wooden skates" Maple Leafs have 13 Stanley Cups, while the Detroit Red Wings have 11 Stanley Cups. I am wagering that a decade from now, the Maple Leafs will still have 13 Cups. Unfortunately for them and their fans, that will put them in third place behind Montreal and Detroit, respectively.

Yeah, I can view Toronto's Cups like all those NFL Championships the Lions won back in the day.

[johnnyshaka]

Woohoo...Marty Reasoner signed with Atlanta!!

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Woohoo...Marty Reasoner signed with Atlanta!!

The Hawks/Falcons/Braves needed someone to replace Dominique Wilkins. This is a good move for them.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Woohoo...Marty Reasoner signed with Atlanta!!

HOLY CRAP MARTY REASONER OMG!!!!!!111!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!! CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!

[DeToxRox]

I feel for Atlanta. If they finish with the worst record in the NHL they still will not get that #1 pick. Sorry to bring the conspiracy, but come one, does anyone really see Tavares in Atlanta?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I feel for Atlanta. If they finish with the worst record in the NHL they still will not get that #1 pick. Sorry to bring the conspiracy, but come one, does anyone really see Tavares in Atlanta?

Who is Tavares?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Who is Tavares?

The Next, Next One. Been lighting up the O for years, was drafted #1 there as a 14 year old. He's a power forward type with sick hands. Consensus #1 pick already for next season.

[Dr. Sak]

Tavares petition to join this past year's draft. His birthday was only a few days past the deadline, but the NHL denied the request.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

The Next, Next One. Been lighting up the O for years, was drafted #1 there as a 14 year old. He's a power forward type with sick hands. Consensus #1 pick already for next season.

Per THN, some scouts are saying they'd take Victor Hedman 1st next year. I think he's like 6'5" 220lbs already, at 17, and playing like 30 mins a night.

Originally Posted by bsak16

Tavares petition to join this past year's draft. His birthday was only a few days past the deadline, but the NHL denied the request.

Didn't they try to claim that due to the number of leap years since his birth, he actually is 18? Or was that when Florida (I think) took Ovechkin in the 8th round in 2003?

[Coder]

Meh.. what a poor week I picked to go to Atlanta... at least for sports.. Falcons have a bye-week and the Thrashers only face the Sabres at home. Buffalo, a team which I despite their success the past few years, never have had any feelings but "Meh" for..

My first trip to the US in 11 years and I don't get to watch any fun stuff

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Coder

My first trip to the US in 11 years and I don't get to watch any fun stuff

From the Falcons bye week comment, I'm guessing you're in the ATL the week that includes Sun Oct 19th. While the pro scene is pretty slow, depending upon the exact date of your trip & your transportation situation, etc. you might consider trying to find tickets to the best attended event in the area that weekend: Vanderbilt at Georgia on Sat 10/18, time TBA.

Another option, depending on the length of your visit, would be the NASCAR event at Atlanta Motor Speedway on Sun 10/26 (truck series race is the afternoon of the previous day), or Virginia at Georgia Tech on Sat 10/25.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by samifan24

Has anyone ever met an actual Atlanta Thrashers fan? Like, in real life? A living, breathing Thrashers fan. Do they exist?

There really are some, I've sat with/near them at a few games. They're a diehard bunch of season ticket holders/booster club members, mostly older.

Alas, even they've about given up hope after so much Waddell futility.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

From the Falcons bye week comment, I'm guessing you're in the ATL the week that includes Sun Oct 19th. While the pro scene is pretty slow, depending upon the exact date of your trip & your transportation situation, etc. you might consider trying to find tickets to the best attended event in the area that weekend: Vanderbilt at Georgia on Sat 10/18, time TBA.

Another option, depending on the length of your visit, would be the NASCAR event at Atlanta Motor Speedway on Sun 10/26 (truck series race is the afternoon of the previous day), or Virginia at Georgia Tech on Sat 10/25.

Thanks for the tips Jon, but I probably won't have time to get to Athens, and while I'd love to see the Tech game, I'll be on my flight home by then .

I'll still try to get tickets to the Sabres game on Saturday October 18, since the only major sport I haven't seen live in the US is NHL-hockey. Saw a Knights-game once, but no NHL-hockey. Heck, Atlanta didn't have an NHL-team last time I was there.

I'll be arriving Friday the 17th and leaving on Saturday the 25th of October. Short trip, and I'll be spending a few days in Atlanta and a few days "further south" .

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Coder

Saw a Knights-game once, but no NHL-hockey.

FWIW, the Knights games were a LOT more fun than I've ever had at an NHL game.

[bbor]

All you Sabres fans can relax now.Miller signed a 5 year extension...havent heard the $$ involved yet though.

[Pyser]

pens extended their coach. too bad for all the players who hate him

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Pyser

pens extended their coach. too bad for all the players who hate him

I read a quote on another message board that said something to the effect of..."I bet a retarded monkey could've gotten the same results with players like Malkin, Crosby, Hossa, and MAF."

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I read a quote on another message board that said something to the effect of..."I bet a retarded monkey could've gotten the same results with players like Malkin, Crosby, Hossa, and MAF."

Didn't the Pens just give that monkey an extension?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by bbor

All you Sabres fans can relax now.Miller signed a 5 year extension...havent heard the $$ involved yet though.

a littler over $6 mil per season. I think the total was $31.25 mil over 5.

We got the most important one extended, now to get Pominville an extension...

[Dr. Sak]

That was important for the Sabers, mainly to keep him away from the Wings.

[Coder]

Interesting turn of events in the Radulov case. IIHF has decided to suspend Radulov pending an investigation, but he's not the only one. Jason Krog, Nikita Filatov, Fedor Fedorov, Viktor Tikhonov all signed with NHL-teams despite having contracts with Russian teams. They're also being suspended.

Now, these suspensions are "only" for international play, which probably doesn't matter very much to would be NHLers, but European leagues take a break a week every now and then for international tournaments throughout the year (European Hockey Tour), so the only actually affected would be Radulov, since he's going to the other way.

The information is interesting, because all of the media concentration is on Radulov breaking his contract with the Predators, but these other guys are doing the exact same thing only they're breaking contracts with Russian teams, but no one is screaming "outrage" about that. Sure, they're lesser players, but the fact remains, no one is "innocent" here. Not the NHL, nor the KHL.

Article at TSN

As far as I'm concerned, there's only one solution.. allow players to be "purchased" out of their contracts. The NHL refuses to let their teams pay cash to a European club as long as their is no transfer agreement in place, but if this thing is going to keep on happening, either you don't care about contracts at all (welcome to chaos, teams won't know who's going to be playing from year to year), or compensation has to be given in an appropriate manner.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Chubby

a littler over $6 mil per season. I think the total was $31.25 mil over 5.

We got the most important one extended, now to get Pominville an extension...

Maybe it's my black & gold homer glasses, but Fleury's deal looks even better now.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Maybe it's my black & gold homer glasses, but Fleury's deal looks even better now.

You are a homer.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Chubby

a littler over $6 mil per season. I think the total was $31.25 mil over 5.

We got the most important one extended, now to get Pominville an extension...

Only 5 years? I wonder if they are watching the young Swed in Enroth that is coming over this year. Pominville is key. The good news is he'll only be a RFA and can opt for arbitration.

[bbor]

Pominville won't be a RFA till after next season...No?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by bbor

Pominville won't be a RFA till after next season...No?

Correct. This coming season is the last year of his current contract.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Maybe it's my black & gold homer glasses, but Fleury's deal looks even better now.

Miller >>>>> Fleury

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Only 5 years? I wonder if they are watching the young Swed in Enroth that is coming over this year. Pominville is key. The good news is he'll only be a RFA and can opt for arbitration.

Nah, I think it's more of the Sabres being the Sabres. They don't give out long contracts, 5 years is the longest one I can think of. Sure I'd love to see him sign a 7-10 year deal but he'll be 33 at the end of this contract (I think) at which point they can sign him to one more contract if they want to.

Shit, they only gava Paille a 2 year deal which is stupid short. I'm sure Pominville will end up with a 2-3 year deal when he should have a longer one.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Miller >>>>> Fleury

When exactly did Miller go on a run like Fleury just had? Not solely the playoffs, but when he returned from injury in March.

And if you are going to point to the defense in front of him, keep in it is the same defense they began the year with (minus Mark Eaton, plus Hal Gill) that everyone questioned.

[Suburban Rhythm]

ping bsa....er Dr. Sak (doctor of what exactly?)

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08201/898137-194.stm

FSN, Steigerwald sign new deal
Network keeps Penguins play-by-play announcer

The article is pretty funny, saying he was kept because of the rating increase in the past 2 seasons with him doing pbp. He at least is quoted saying give credit to Crosby and Malkin.