Werewolf LXXII: Chess (Checkmate!)

[The Jackal]

I purely meant about being the other white knight. I'm not a wolf, but no, no one can confirm that yet.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by KWhit

For the record, I think it's a really bad idea to have another Knight come forward at this point.

I fully agree and I find it suspicious that Chief Rum would write a tome trying to explain why our Seers should announce themselves.

[KWhit]

I'm struggling with the thoughts that the wolves were assigned randomly. I just don't know if that makes sense.

I wonder at the balance of the game if a Queen were a wolf, for instance. Or even a Knight or pawns with their ability to have their vote count for 4.

And I do think it's possible (or likely) that there is symmetry in who the wolves are between the white and black teams, meaning that there would be a white rook wolf to balance Hoops (black rook).

So if you are a villager white rook, keep a close eye on your partner. At some point it may be worth revealing the two white rooks to test this theory.

[st.cronin]

Would it make any sense for one of the black knights to come forward with their information, to help guide our vote today? If only one of them steps forward, the three rooks would have an excellent shot at protecting him.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I purely meant about being the other white knight. I'm not a wolf, but no, no one can confirm that yet.

I was saying that you may not even be the white knight. If you're a wolf and if the other white knight were a wolf, you could still have made your reveal knowing it wouldn't be disputed.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Would it make any sense for one of the black knights to come forward with their information, to help guide our vote today? If only one of them steps forward, the three rooks would have an excellent shot at protecting him.

I think it's too early for that yet. It's likely they haven't even made a successful scan yet.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I was saying that you may not even be the white knight. If you're a wolf and if the other white knight were a wolf, you could still have made your reveal knowing it wouldn't be disputed.

Good point, I didn't think about that. But I have no one left to PM with now.

[The Jackal]

I'm about to head to work. No idea what my schedule will be like, but I'll try and come around as often as possible.

[Lathum]

Vote StCronin

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Vote StCronin

Drive by.

Although I can guess why he's voting for him.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I was saying that you may not even be the white knight. If you're a wolf and if the other white knight were a wolf, you could still have made your reveal knowing it wouldn't be disputed.

Barkeep was the other white knight. If Jackal is a black knight the other black knight would know who he is and counter his reveal, even if the other white knight is a wolf. I don't really think there's much need to doubt that Jackal is who he says he is.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Drive by.

Although I can guess why he's voting for him.

I can't. I don't think I should be above suspicion, but it would be nice to be able to respond.

[Narcizo]

In terms of colour. Whether he's a wolf or not is still up in the air.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I'm struggling with the thoughts that the wolves were assigned randomly. I just don't know if that makes sense.

Except that's what Pass told me. Now there might be a case where Pass randomly selected a wolf and then picked his counterpart on the other side as a wolf. I think that would fit in with his response to me. But there was definitely a random element in it.

Honestly I think you're better off PMing yourself and seeing what he says, or asking him to post here.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Barkeep was the other white knight. If Jackal is a black knight the other black knight would know who he is and counter his reveal, even if the other white knight is a wolf. I don't really think there's much need to doubt that Jackal is who he says he is.

No. My point is that it's possible Jackal is a wolf and is some other piece like a bishop or something, but a different wolf is the other white knight and shared that info with Jackal. Jackal may have chosen to use the other wolf's identity because he knew that claiming to be a knight would likely save him.

I'm not saying it's likely, but The Jackal suggesting that just because someone doesn't come forward to dispute what he says means that he's definitely telling the truth. It doesn't.

[Qwikshot]

(puff puff) Just checking, my dear Watson...let's assume that the addition of wolves to the game does add a certain dynamic...but chess is a game of balance is it not. We know each piece possesses a power, a role. So adding in wolves, would they not, for the balance of power, be mirror images? (puff) So the question is, would there be a twist, or not? If a black rook is evil, then surely the other rook knows of this trough dialogue, should any chatter have targeted specific person or persons, the good rook should know this...

I'm sure that if a wolf is able to talk with other wolves, then knowing hoops was a wolf rook, the black queen, king and other rook are compromised...

Now I'm not sure if a rook has to be adjacent to whom he/she protects, but I would assume that would be the case. Then the rook and queen are in a bad way because the wolves know who they are.

Still I must assume that a wolf still is bound by the laws of the chessboard, and thus cannot kill a piece without it being adjacent to them, or perhaps even, killed by the boundaries of their chess piece's move?

So if the white knight was killed, the closest in proximity if bound by chess pieces would the a white rook or a white queen as pawns cannot go backwards and other pieces need to move several times to get to such location (i.e. the knight, the king, or a black piece).

Just my thoughts...

(puff puff)

[st.cronin]

There is nothing in the rules about wolves or rooks needing to be near or adjacent to their targets.

[jeheinz72]

Looks like I didn't miss much overnight.

CR's theory looks good. I can't decide it I believe it though or if it looks "too" good in a contrived way.

I'd like to know why Lathum voted Cronin and why Cronin voted Neon, for varying reasons.

[claphamsa]

jackyl who did you scan?

[st.cronin]

Heinz, I voted Neon because hoops mentioned a couple of times that he trusted him. This could be because Neon is the other black rook, or it could be because Neon is a wolf, or it could be a false clue. Its a pretty weak argument, so I could probably be talked out of it.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'm sure the wolves are hoping you lynch me, because I'm a safe guard each night for the rooks without any other pieces being revealed. I'll take suggestions on who to scan tonight if you like; there are a fair number of pieces around me.

Given his voting record yesterday I'd like you to scan Heinz. My only problem is that if you're a wolf then it's a pretty pointless exercise.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by KWhit

No. My point is that it's possible Jackal is a wolf and is some other piece like a bishop or something, but a different wolf is the other white knight and shared that info with Jackal. Jackal may have chosen to use the other wolf's identity because he knew that claiming to be a knight would likely save him.

I'm not saying it's likely, but The Jackal suggesting that just because someone doesn't come forward to dispute what he says means that he's definitely telling the truth. It doesn't.

Ah! Gotcha. Good point.

A bishop needs to scan Jackal then. Although there's no guarantee that he isn't another white piece if he's a wolf.

[Narcizo]

No, hold on. If he's not a knight then surely his partner would have blown the whistle on him by now. Unless his partner is a wolf.

[st.cronin]

KWhit had 2 votes for a long time yesterday - from me and ntndeacon. Jackal and hoopsguy were more or less tied for several pages. Heinz cast the third vote on KWhit, and his vote seemed to trigger a lot of movement for some reason.

There are a number of players who strike me as possible wolves based on how yesterday played out - at least heinz, Lathum, and Jackal, probably a couple of others if I think about it. It should be noted that RendeR has been much quieter than normal. Also, Narcizo has me worried.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Heinz, I voted Neon because hoops mentioned a couple of times that he trusted him. This could be because Neon is the other black rook, or it could be because Neon is a wolf, or it could be a false clue. Its a pretty weak argument, so I could probably be talked out of it.

I'm fairly sure he's not the other black rook if you re-read his reveal.

That would leave him being a wolf, and would hoops be so blatant about it?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I'm fairly sure he's not the other black rook if you re-read his reveal.

That would leave him being a wolf, and would hoops be so blatant about it?

He wasn't that blatant, but either way: maybe, especially if you think about hoops trying to move the vote YESTERDAY, rather than being overly worried about clues.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

KWhit had 2 votes for a long time yesterday - from me and ntndeacon. Jackal and hoopsguy were more or less tied for several pages. Heinz cast the third vote on KWhit, and his vote seemed to trigger a lot of movement for some reason.

There are a number of players who strike me as possible wolves based on how yesterday played out - at least heinz, Lathum, and Jackal, probably a couple of others if I think about it. It should be noted that RendeR has been much quieter than normal. Also, Narcizo has me worried.

I agree that my voting yesterday should give people reason to doubt me. I considered voting hoops when it seemed he was the main candidate to the No Lynch but I thought he was too valuable a villager to lynch on day one (and I like him being around posting) so I held off and then there was a lot of movement onto Jackal and the no lynch option seemed to disappear so I didn't see a need to move onto him.

I maintain that KWhit's voting pattern and general play yesterday was suspicious though, as was the pile onto Jackal once Hoops revealed. If Hoops hadn't turned out to be a wolf I'd be voting KWhit in an instant today.

[st.cronin]

Narc, obviously I agree with you about KWhit.

[Lathum]

Cronin was in way to big of a hurry to put people in a COT yesterday, struck me as very wolfish.

[st.cronin]

Ok, then why did you vote for me YESTERDAY? That was also a hit and run vote.

[claphamsa]

dp we have ay voting records yet? Im actually busy at work

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Ok, then why did you vote for me YESTERDAY? That was also a hit and run vote.

I was high

[Lathum]

dola- on vicoden, I don't take recreational drugs.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Narc, obviously I agree with you about KWhit.

You jumped all over my votes yesterday and in so doing misrepresented what I said more than once. Your continued accusations drove a lot of votes my way I think. I think maybe I could have explained myself better initially, but the reasons why I voted for who I did are EXACTLY THE SAME reasons why most people were voting for either Hoops or Jackal.

It struck me that you were focusing your wrath on me when it wasn't warranted.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by KWhit

You jumped all over my votes yesterday and in so doing misrepresented what I said more than once. Your continued accusations drove a lot of votes my way I think. I think maybe I could have explained myself better initially, but the reasons why I voted for who I did are EXACTLY THE SAME reasons why most people were voting for either Hoops or Jackal.

It struck me that you were focusing your wrath on me when it wasn't warranted.

This is correct, I was wrong yesterday. Still, we did get a wolf out of all that.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

This is correct, I was wrong yesterday. Still, we did get a wolf out of all that.

Uhhh... This sounds like you're taking some credit for that.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

jackyl who did you scan?

Hoops, and I got no return.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Uhhh... This sounds like you're taking some credit for that.

I just mean I don't regret playing the way I did.

[Sonic Youth]

What's the latest vote count?

[st.cronin]

I think there are just two votes, one on Neon and one on me.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Uhhh... This sounds like you're taking some credit for that.

To be fair I think you can agree that bagging Hoops was an accidental by-product of you trying to save yourself.

On the other hand I have to agree that I've noticed before that cronin is often quick in dishing out trust when he's a wolf.

[st.cronin]

actually 3 votes so far:

Neon Chaos - 1 - st.cronin (619)
The Jackal - 1 - Chief Rum (638)
st.cronin - 1 - Lathum (659)

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

On the other hand I have to agree that I've noticed before that cronin is often quick in dishing out trust when he's a wolf.

You can go back and re-read hoops posts yourself, but he referenced SY, mccollins, and Neon Chaos a couple of different times. Its possible that he knew was going to get lynched and was leaving false clues, but I think its MORE likely that he was trying to drive the vote. If you assume that he was trying to drive the vote, then you have to have a higher level of trust for Sonic and mccollins, and lower level of trust for Neon. When in doubt, keep it simple.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

KWhit had 2 votes for a long time yesterday - from me and ntndeacon. Jackal and hoopsguy were more or less tied for several pages. Heinz cast the third vote on KWhit, and his vote seemed to trigger a lot of movement for some reason.

.

This actually isn't true, really.

I initially cast a 3rd vote on KWhit (413) but then once I saw Jackal's strange plea of "I wish people thought I made a good villager" I switched to him (6 posts apart and no one else voted KWhit in between)

My actual vote for KWhit was at 492, making it a 5-5 tie with he and Jackal with No Lynch at 4. I did this because...
A) I abhor No Lynch
B) I didn't want to take a risk that Jackal is indeed a villager-knight
C) I wasn't going to cast a throwaway vote and
D) Something seemed "up" with KWhit yesterday be it his miscommunications or whatever ended up in lynching hoops instead of him that caused it.

FTR, he's the lone person besides me in my COT now.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Hoops, and I got no return.

this is the kind of thing that always set off my wolf radar.

If it looks like there is even a remote possibility why not have a conditional order out in?

[KWhit]

What do you guys think about the theory that one of the white rooks is a wolf (to balance the black rook wolf - hoops)?

I'd like to hear some thoughts on that. Because we could possibly gain a lot from having them reveal.

We would be able to look closely at their voting history. And the other white knight, Jackal, would know who to scan tonight if they let him know what side of the board they were on. That way, he could target a scan on the one that he is closest to. I worry that this kind of coordination is the only way we're going to get much out of our knight scans because it's going to be unlikely for the person chosen for the scan to be in range of the knight doing the scanning.

What do you guys think?

[Neon_Chaos]

st.cro, if I were a wolf in cahoots with hoops, i wouldn't have removed my vote for No Lynch and put in on hoops.

Neon unvotes No Lynch, votes hoops (289) 5-4-3-2-1-1-1-1 (Pushes hoops into the lead, No Lynch down to third)

It forced hoops to move his vote to the Jackal.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

This actually isn't true, really.

I initially cast a 3rd vote on KWhit (413) but then once I saw Jackal's strange plea of "I wish people thought I made a good villager" I switched to him (6 posts apart and no one else voted KWhit in between)

My actual vote for KWhit was at 492, making it a 5-5 tie with he and Jackal with No Lynch at 4. I did this because...
A) I abhor No Lynch
B) I didn't want to take a risk that Jackal is indeed a villager-knight
C) I wasn't going to cast a throwaway vote and
D) Something seemed "up" with KWhit yesterday be it his miscommunications or whatever ended up in lynching hoops instead of him that caused it.

FTR, he's the lone person besides me in my COT now.

Be careful. st.cronin will probably want to lynch you for saying that.

[st.cronin]

I think its just a guess. I'm not crazy about trying to guess which pieces might be wolves.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Lathum

this is the kind of thing that always set off my wolf radar.

If it looks like there is even a remote possibility why not have a conditional order out in?

I didn't think to put in a conditional order. FWIW I don't think BK did either, and he was also planning on scanning hoops. I'll make sure to have a conditional with further scans just in case.