2007 MLB Playoffs Thread

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by molson

Still waiting for Victor Martinez to finish rounding the bases.......If that was Manny the announcers would still be talking it about it.

Oh, sorry, that was Victor being Victor. Just ignore it.

[dime]

Originally Posted by molson

And I don't particularly think that Rockies and Indians fans are obnoxious - I just the things they say and express are no different than what Red Sox fans say, and only the latter gets a label. (Usually from depressed fans of small-market teams).

okay we'll agree to continue living in different realities, I guess.

the snide remark at the end was delicious irony, though. in one breath you claim red sox fans are just like any other fan, and in the next breath you make an obnoxious, insecure remark about "depressed fans of small-market teams". at least yankee fans are secure enough to not be so defensive about what they were and what they stood for. I guess sox fans are still noveau riche.

on a serious note, this isn't really personal for me, I don't know any of the posters here on a personal level. I've just always been irritated by the sense of entitlement that some sports fans seem to really exude and revel in. it seems so out of place - the players and coaches might deserve that attitude, but all you do is watch them on tv like everyone else. for the last few years, red sox/patriots fans have really been setting a new high/low with this behavior.

[molson]

Originally Posted by dime

okay we'll agree to continue living in different realities, I guess.

the snide remark at the end was delicious irony, though. in one breath you claim red sox fans are just like any other fan, and in the next breath you make an obnoxious, insecure remark about "depressed fans of small-market teams". at least yankee fans are secure enough to not be so defensive about what they were and what they stood for. I guess sox fans are still noveau riche.

on a serious note, this isn't really personal for me, I don't know any of the posters here on a personal level. I've just always been irritated by the sense of entitlement that some sports fans seem to really exude and revel in. it seems so out of place - the players and coaches might deserve that attitude, but all you do is watch them on tv like everyone else. for the last few years, red sox/patriots fans have really been setting a new high/low with this behavior.

Typically the fans that go overboard on hatred of successful teams resent the success of those teams, because their own team lack similar success. In baseball, unfortunately, economics can play a huge role in the difference between the two.

I have nothing against small markets. I live Idaho in god's sake. I'm not in denial of the fact that the Red Sox success is directly related to the fact there's way, way people in the Boston metro area than say, Cleveland. (Which is the ONLY reason for the perceived "East Coast Bias" - networks are going to play to the larger fan base.) But that's where I grew up, so sue me. I don't think I'm entitled to anything. I'm loving the ride. Where I see a sense of entitlement is some fans of small market teams, who feel like they're entitled to more, and are bitter about it.

The sense of entitlement is an utter myth. My boss at work was giving me shit a few weeks ago about how every Boston.com writer picked the Red Sox to beat Anaheim in the ALDS - he said that it was obvious that New Englanders don't think there's a world outside their backyards. I responded that I was a stranger to Boise, where it's Boise State Football 24/7 - as if no other college football program exists. At tonight's game, they showed the clip from the Cleveland writer who proclaimed The Indians the superior team to the Red Sox. It's exactly the same thing.

[molson]

I think I'd rather see Lester in game 7 than Dice-K - or at at least keep Dice-K on a very short leash - maybe use 'em 3 innings a piece.

[samifan24]

As an Indians fan, this is embarrassing. I wouldn't wish something this demoralizing on anyone's favorite team.

[molson]

Originally Posted by samifan24

As an Indians fan, this is embarrassing. I wouldn't wish something this demoralizing on anyone's favorite team.

I think it's better for them than a 1-run loss in a game like this.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

I think I'd rather see Lester in game 7 than Dice-K - or at at least keep Dice-K on a very short leash - maybe use 'em 3 innings a piece.

I think you have to keep Dice on a short leash. It's game 7...if he hits one of his rocky-innings and lets two guys on and then gives up a hit...he gets yanked.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I think you have to keep Dice on a short leash. It's game 7...if he hits one of his rocky-innings and lets two guys on and then gives up a hit...he gets yanked.

Agreed. I like Dice-K and think he had some fairly lofty expectations placed on him since his price tag was so high. That being said the Red Sox and "experts" had warned it will take this guy some time to acclimate to evrything possibly not 1 season but even 2-2/1/2. The guy is only 27 and the Sox got him itied up for at lest 6 years so no worry IMHO. Now with tonights game depleting the Indians bullpen and the Sox able to use the likes of Gagne and Kyle Snider to finish the game out we are in good shape. I say try to get for 4 quality innings out of Matsuzaka and then go to Lester, Wakefield, and Beckett for in see if you get 2 innings out of Lester than skip Wakefield and go to Beckett for a inning and close out with Okajima and Papelbon. This is all assuming they can get a few runs off of Mr Westbrook.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Agreed. I like Dice-K and think he had some fairly lofty expectations placed on him since his price tag was so high. That being said the Red Sox and "experts" had warned it will take this guy some time to acclimate to evrything possibly not 1 season but even 2-2/1/2. The guy is only 27 and the Sox got him itied up for at lest 6 years so no worry IMHO. Now with tonights game depleting the Indians bullpen and the Sox able to use the likes of Gagne and Kyle Snider to finish the game out we are in good shape. I say try to get for 4 quality innings out of Matsuzaka and then go to Lester, Wakefield, and Beckett for in see if you get 2 innings out of Lester than skip Wakefield and go to Beckett for a inning and close out with Okajima and Papelbon. This is all assuming they can get a few runs off of Mr Westbrook.

I agree, and I also have been telling everyone who will listen all year that dice will need AT LEAST a year to acclimate to the American game.

Funny story...he lives maybe...two miles away here in my town.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I agree, and I also have been telling everyone who will listen all year that dice will need AT LEAST a year to acclimate to the American game.

Funny story...he lives maybe...two miles away here in my town.

You must live in the really nice part of town not that Wellseley has a bad part

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Galaril

You must live in the really nice part of town not that Wellseley has a bad part

mmhmm...oh that's right...you know wellesley somewhat.

dice-k lives right over...basically...right across the street from Babson College...right on the Wellesley Country Club's golf course

[DaddyTorgo]

FOX just showed the HR's by Manny in Game 4 and the Victor Martinez one tonight, and Martinez actually took longer to get around the bases

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

mmhmm...oh that's right...you know wellesley somewhat.

dice-k lives right over...basically...right across the street from Babson College...right on the Wellesley Country Club's golf course

Nice diggs that area.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Nice diggs that area.

come on by...i'll point out which house we ASSUME it is (we're not certain, but we know which road its on and there's only 2 houses it could be)

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

FOX just showed the HR's by Manny in Game 4 and the Victor Martinez one tonight, and Martinez actually took longer to get around the bases

That was great. Can't believe this announcing team actually did something helpful for the fans viewing. Also showed that he took longer to get jogging...

And I loved the miked-up Sox player playing the "J.D. Drew, most beloved Red Sox player ever" card for the fickle fans

[JeeberD]

Cross posting from the HGH thread...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playof...=ESPNHeadlines

Paul Byrd, who pitched the Cleveland Indians to the brink of the World Series with a victory in Game 4 of the ALCS on Tuesday, bought nearly $25,000 worth of human growth hormone and syringes, according to a published report.



The San Francisco Chronicle reported Sunday that Byrd's purchase was from the Florida anti-aging clinic that was the focus of law enforcement for illegally distributing performance-enhancing drugs, according to business records.


The paper reported that the purchases were made via credit card from the Palm Beach Rejuvenation Center between August 2002 and January 2005. In that time frame, Byrd pitched for the Kansas City Royals, the Atlanta Braves and the Los Angeles Angels.

Byrd, who is 2-0 this postseason with a 3.60 ERA as a starter for Cleveland, did not comment after The Chronicle attempted to reach him through his agent via phone and e-mail.

Indians general manager Mark Shapiro released a statement Sunday saying the team is supporting their pitcher, who earned the victory in Cleveland's ALDS-clinching win over the Yankees on Oct. 8.

"We aware of the story regarding Paul. I have spoken with Paul about the situation, however, at this time I don't feel I have enough information to make any further comments on the matter. He has been an important member of this organization -- on and off the field -- over the last two years and we support him in this process," Shapiro said.

The paper said Byrd spent $24,850 to buy more than 1,000 vials of growth hormone as well as hundreds of syringes. The records reviewed by The Chronicle included such items as purchase and shipping orders, Byrd's birth date and his Social Security number. The source that provided the records said the orders placed were consistent with personal use of HGH.


In a recent interview with ESPN.com Page 2 writer Sam Alipour, Byrd talked about how important the role of religion was in his life. Byrd has written a manuscript called " The Free Byrd Project" that details his spiritual journey through the major leagues and the pitfalls that pious jocks must leap in navigating a ballplayer's lifestyle.


"Religion can go over into every area, like whether I should cheat out on the field," Byrd told Alipour. "I write about the desire to just make money at any cost. I share about my temptation to spit on the ball, put KY jelly on it or scuff it, to win more games and make more money. That's a big temptation for me, being a guy who throws 82, who relies on movement.

"You have a pull, because you have a certain window up here that stares you in the face. Are you willing to take steroids? Because that's available. People viewed that as me being weak. Like, 'This guy doesn't want to win.' "

"I don't call people out like Canseco," Byrd said. "I share my struggles. I think the last thing the Christian community needs is another person who says they have it all together, a 12-step process for being perfect. That doesn't exist. I can help people by being honest."

During his 13-year career in which he has played for seven different teams, Byrd is 97-81 with a 4.35 ERA. This season, he started 31 games and had a 15-8 record with a 4.59 ERA.

[Logan]

Family, God, and HGH.

[sterlingice]

Well, as much as I didn't really like Byrd since he was an ass to his fans in KC. He did get the HGH perscribed as he has hormone deficiency so that' just some sloppy reporting from ESPN which has now appended its front page to say "the Indians now must deal with fallout from Paul Byrd's past HGH use, which the pitcher reportedly said was prescribed by a doctor". I mean, the guy wrote about it in a book that's coming out- I don't think this is a big secret.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7358706


SI

[JeeberD]

Different league and all, but didn't Wade Wilson, a freakin' coach, get suspended for using HGH for a legitimate health concern?

[molson]

Excuses - the Indians should forfeit game 4!

[Young Drachma]

Ugh. Baseball can't stay out of its own way.

[sterlingice]

How is this baseball's fault?

SI

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

How is this baseball's fault?

SI

Paul Byrd's a baseball player, isn't he?

[sterlingice]

Uh, yeah, so a guy has an upcoming book that the San Francisco Chronicle and their "crack team" gets ahold of and makes a big deal about him legally getting HGH with his own credit card and he doesn't deny it? How is this a story, even?

I took steroids when I was younger because I had (still have) allergies as they're what you take for allergies. If I had been a baseball player, is this suddenly a story?

SI

[Young Drachma]

If baseball had proactive about this from the start and just established a cohesive policy that says "shit happened in the past that wasn't okay. In fact, it was wrong. We are approaching a vigorous policy that will essentially allow people like this to come out and tell us what happened, so we're aware of it. The MLBPA are on board and during this amnesty period there will be no penalties. At the completion of this investigation by Sen. George Mitchell we will vigorously ban anyone found used illegal substances listed on our schedule of "bad stuff".

Baseball would also announce it's shortening the regular season to 146 games, expand by two teams in 2010 and create 4 divisions of eight teams in each league, formally merging the leagues and bringing the sport into the 21st century. The playoffs will include 8 teams in the newly merged MLB.

The bottom line is, take the story away from goofballs like those reporters in San Francisco who seem to love getting as much attention as they can from "unveiling" their "breaking" stories at the worst possible times for baseball. All MLB can hope now, is that the Indians lose, so they don't have to hear about this through what will otherwise be an interesting storyline -- but poorly watched -- World Series if they're in it with the Rockies.

So it's baseball's fault, because in an era where a football player can be suspended for steroids (for just four games, no less) and be honored later that year and the story barely registers more than a few murmurs and even then, only among the sports faithful....it's clearly a double standard being applied to the national pasttime and under the guise of "purity of sport" when really it's just a witchhunt and baseball ought to know rampant it is and if people don't want to come clear, it should kick them out of the game for good.

And if MLB really did know this dude had a prescription for a health problem, they should've pre-empted this story before ESPN could shove it down our throats.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I took steroids when I was younger because I had (still have) allergies as they're what you take for allergies. If I had been a baseball player, is this suddenly a story?

SI

Depends on what kind of steroid you took. HGH is illegal without a prescription. But these days, just the word of "steroids" or "HGH" is immediate judgment of impropriety in the sport, because like you said, a few intrepid "reporters" feel the need to use their new-found fame and credibility to continue focusing solely on baseball players and making it seems as if the game is full of cheaters.

Because they like the attention they're getting and of course, our friends in the media are all about the lede and it's no accident that corrections are hidden from plain view and that sensationalism passes for news these days.

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I took steroids when I was younger because I had (still have) allergies as they're what you take for allergies. If I had been a baseball player, is this suddenly a story?

SI

If you were getting them illegally from an online pharmacy and they were giving you a performance advantage in your career? You bet.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Different league and all, but didn't Wade Wilson, a freakin' coach, get suspended for using HGH for a legitimate health concern?

I don't know Wade Wilson or Paul Byrd's medical history, but I seem to recall that Wade Wilson claimed it was to treat the effects of diabetes. HGH is not part of the standard of care for diabetes at this time or in the past.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by molson

If you were getting them illegally from an online pharmacy and they were giving you a performance advantage in your career? You bet.

Which would be all well and good if that were the case. But it's not here at all!

He had them perscribed by three different doctors- not one, not two, but three. HGH does have legal uses. Geez- what's so hard to understand about this?

SI

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Which would be all well and good if that were the case. But it's not here at all!

He had them perscribed by three different doctors- not one, not two, but three. HGH does have legal uses. Geez- what's so hard to understand about this?

SI

Particularly since the story notes that he's been working with MLB and the Indians for some time with the issue (pituitary gland tumor?).

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I don't know Wade Wilson or Paul Byrd's medical history, but I seem to recall that Wade Wilson claimed it was to treat the effects of diabetes. HGH is not part of the standard of care for diabetes at this time or in the past.

Pffft...what do YOU know?

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Which would be all well and good if that were the case. But it's not here at all!

He had them perscribed by three different doctors- not one, not two, but three. HGH does have legal uses. Geez- what's so hard to understand about this?

SI

I don't doubt that he has some valid prescription. But $25,000 from an online pharmacy that's currently under investigation? I don't buy it.

All those wrestlers that dropped dead had "valid" prescriptions too.

If these prescriptions were all 100% legit, I'm sure it will be cleared up. (But it won't be).

Players have two excuses they run with when it comes to cheating. 1. I didn't know what my trainer was telling me to use. and 2. I have a prescription from a doctor, no one will notice I'm purchasing 100X that if I do it through shady online pharmacies.

[molson]

And for the record I could care less what Byrd's doing. I assume every baseball player cheats, so I'm past the point where I'm offended.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't doubt that he has some valid prescription. But $25,000 from an online pharmacy that's currently under investigation? I don't buy it.

All those wrestlers that dropped dead had "valid" prescriptions too.

If these prescriptions were all 100% legit, I'm sure it will be cleared up. (But it won't be).

Players have two excuses they run with when it comes to cheating. 1. I didn't know what my trainer was telling me to use. and 2. I have a prescription from a doctor, no one will notice I'm purchasing 100X that if I do it through shady online pharmacies.

Don't forget outright denial in some cases and when it involves a positive test of some sort you must question the testing methods.

[Crapshoot]

I don't really care, to be honest. HGH doesn't make the man.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Which would be all well and good if that were the case. But it's not here at all!

He had them perscribed by three different doctors- not one, not two, but three. HGH does have legal uses. Geez- what's so hard to understand about this?

SI

One of those "doctors" was reportedly a dentist and another was through the online pharmacy that is under investigation.

[sterlingice]

Does anyone else have crappy sound quality on their FOX feed or is this just the KC feed?

SI

[sterlingice]

Nice pitch

SI

[saldana]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Does anyone else have crappy sound quality on their FOX feed or is this just the KC feed?

SI

mine is perfectly fine

[saldana]

that may have been the worst hop i have ever seen

[sterlingice]

Must be the KC station, either that or the Lawrence feed

Great job, Jhonny. First your mom misspells your name and now you ole a ball in game 7 of the ALCS. Your life is an abject failure

SI

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Does anyone else have crappy sound quality on their FOX feed or is this just the KC feed?

SI

Yeah - I keep hearing Joe Buck and Tim McCarver.

[Lathum]

I'm amazed the indians don't have someone at least warming up

[QuikSand]

Sorry I didn't have time to post it here (it came together at about 5 minutes to game time) but there was a "free money" opportunity on the World Sports Exchange (betting site) centering on tonight's game. It came and went pretty quickly, but at one point, it was possible to get in on both these bets:

BOS to win tonight's game at -170
CLE to win the AL pennant (long term market) at $37 per share to pay 100

So, if you offset these two bets, you could have basically guaranteed a modest win of about 8-10% of the amount of capital you have available to put in. I'll come out ahead by either $175 (BOS) or $215 (CLE) myself, with basically every penny I had in my account tied up in this now.

[sterlingice]

So, drinks are on you tonight?

SI

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Sorry I didn't have time to post it here (it came together at about 5 minutes to game time) but there was a "free money" opportunity on the World Sports Exchange (betting site) centering on tonight's game. It came and went pretty quickly, but at one point, it was possible to get in on both these bets:

BOS to win tonight's game at -170
CLE to win the AL pennant (long term market) at $37 per share to pay 100

So, if you offset these two bets, you could have basically guaranteed a modest win of about 8-10% of the amount of capital you have available to put in. I'll come out ahead by either $175 (BOS) or $215 (CLE) myself, with basically every penny I had in my account tied up in this now.

what if they tie?

[sterlingice]

Then everything's a push. Duh

SI

[Lathum]

lol at manny

[sterlingice]

I figured it was a home run as he just stood there and watched it

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

manny gets a lot of crap, but he's actually turned into a fairly decent player of the wall. Don't forget what was it...last year he lead the league in outfield assists?