NFL Draft thread 2012

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I mean, hell, the Ravens got #35 and #98 for #29 alone! Then Denver turns around and deals #31 AND #126 for #36 and #101.

If the net out of that trade and the earlier trade was moving from #25 to #36 and picking up #101 and #126, then maybe I get it. Maybe. But throwing in the Pats 4th rounder in the TB trade was flat-out stupid. Seems to me moving from #25 to #36 is worth more than just a high 4th rounder - especially considering the trade 2 spots in front of them. Cripes.

Denver basically traded 25 for 36 and 101. Not great, but not terrible - esp if the guy they targeted wasn't at risk (I'm guessing it's the MSU DT). The Ravens got a good deal from a value standpoint when they traded 29 (640) for 35 and 98 (658). But, trading 25 (720) for 36 and 101 (640) isn't *that* much worse. Plus, the Vikes basically got 3 picks for free earlier and badly wanted the safety. With people rarely having the perfect picks, it's hard to hit it on the nose. If people aren't desperate and you want to trade down, it's hard to get full value.

We'll see who Denver picks at 36, but if it seems like the same guy they would have taken at 25 (Worthy or an OL) then I don't see how people can be mad.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

ooh. just did watched aj jenkins highlight vid. sexy.

I want to see a highlight reel where somebody doesn't look good.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I really hope that the Colts pass of Fleener and take Upshaw if he is there.

Disagree with this. Upshaw seems like a tweener player and from I've heard he's poor in coverage and probably a bad fit as a 3-4 OLB. I would be very unhappy if he were the pick.

I'm hoping the Colts build up the offense around Luck tonight by taking Cordy Glenn, Coby Fleener, or Stephen Hill but I'd also be okay if they took somebody like Jerel Worthy, Devon Still, or Kendall Reyes if Grigson feels one of them is the BPA and will be a very good 3-4 DE in this league. Andre Branch as a 3-4 OLB might also make a bit of sense.

[Logan]

Apparently the Rams were planning on taking AJ Jenkins with their 33rd overall, as they had him and Blackmon rated similarly.

Rams miss out on Jenkins

[Thomkal]

As a Cards fan, I'm not unhappy that the Rams missed out on the better WR talent. I thought the Rams trading down to one spot below divisional rival Arizona and the Bengals to what two spots below Pittsburgh was kinda dumb given both teams interest in the same position the trading teams needed.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by Matthean

I want to see a highlight reel where somebody doesn't look good.

percy harvin 2.0 -book it!

(to be fair my job record as head of youtube scouting is a bit dodgy)

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Logan

Apparently the Rams were planning on taking AJ Jenkins with their 33rd overall, as they had him and Blackmon rated similarly.

Rams miss out on Jenkins

They were planning on picking Blackmon at 6 too, so they must feel a bit frustrated.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Logan

Apparently the Rams were planning on taking AJ Jenkins with their 33rd overall, as they had him and Blackmon rated similarly.

Rams miss out on Jenkins

Not sure about all this love for Jenkins. I watched a lot of Illinois games and Benn was a much better receiver (when the two played together). Jenkins could never get open in traffic, seemed always to have some kind of injury and took a lot of plays off. IMO, the only reason he's this high is because of his 40 time (4.39). If he ran a 4.5, I bet he would have slipped to the late 2nd as I can't imagine his tape is very compelling. Illinois was fighting for their bowl life down the stretch and in 3 of their last 4 games against solid Ds - he had 6-43, 4-33 and 4-30. He only showed up for the Michigan loss (8-103, no TDs though) - but they might have been the worst defense in the Big 10 and a lot of his yards were in slop time.

I always worry about guys who pad against crap Ds (598 yds, 6 TDs against Ark St, NW and Indiana), but are inconsistent against the rest of opponents (only ~600 yards and 1 TD the rest of the 9 games with an ave of 65 yards).

Maybe I'll be wrong, but I don't know how you take him before Stephen Hill or why the Rams would be heartbroken by losing him. Being in St. Louis, they had to watch atleast a couple Illini games

[Chief Rum]

I agree, Arles. Rams might be fortunate to have missed on Jenkins. Not that he won't be productive at the NFL level, but certainly not at a first round grade level.

[JediKooter]

I didn't catch the draft, but, did the Chargers draft Norv Turner's replacement?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

That is where my concerns with Weeden come in. He can throw a great fade pattern, but many of his deep balls were badly under thrown where a receiver had to stop and wait for the ball and on crossing routes it seemed like receivers had to reach behind to catch them. This is based on the three or four Oklahoma State games I saw.

I really think his success had more to do with having guys who could go get the ball.

Good analysis.

He is very inaccurate on throws accross the middle. He is probably the best 15 yard out thrower in the draft however. It is kind of odd how a QB that can make the hardest throw in the game can struggle with such easy throws. I would speculate he is going to have a large interception rate because of his poor accuracy on crossing routes.

[Logan]

I know next to nothing about Jenkins, but I had seen a lot of speculation online that the Niners would have been able to get him with their 2nd rounder, which is why I posted the link.

It reminded me a lot of last year when people were surprised the Niners took Aldon Smith at #7, later finding out he would have went 9th or something if they hadn't gotten him there.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Good analysis.

He is very inaccurate on throws accross the middle. He is probably the best 15 yard out thrower in the draft however. It is kind of odd how a QB that can make the hardest throw in the game can struggle with such an easy throw.

Like I said in an earlier post, I don't think it's an accuracy issue. I think he's a beat slow in processing what's going on around him. Those outs and fades that he looks so crisp on are most likely always the first read he makes in a given play and there's less information to process. It's a simple 'yes/no' on whether the corner/safety are going to be in a position to make a play (a single variable). Once he starts going through progressions to go deep or over the middle, he's having to read multiple defenders. It slows his decision making.

I really think he's going to be Derek Anderson II.

I also have a concern that he really hasn't been hit in the last ten years. He took very little in the way of actual punishment at Oklahoma State. I think he's a guy whose going to tend to be injury prone.

[jbergey22]

I think you have a good read on the Weeden situation. The Iowa State game is likely one of the games you saw. Just completely out of it mentally and locking on to receivers and just basically looking confused with everything Iowa State did.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

percy harvin 2.0 -book it!

(to be fair my job record as head of youtube scouting is a bit dodgy)

Im not seeing this comparison unless they both have headache issues.

Jenkins is undersized while Harvin is a beast as a WR. I think Jenkins can be a decent slot type WR but doesnt have close to Harvins ability of running after the catch.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I didn't catch the draft, but, did the Chargers draft Norv Turner's replacement?

they traded him to cleveland for mike holmgrem. he's going to revolutionize the offense with bill walsh's 1978 stanford playbook.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Harvin is a beast as a WR

no

Location: Minnesota

a ha

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

no

a ha

Well Harvin and AP are really the only two Vikings I have a lot of love for at the moment so while bias its not overly homerism bias.

I think youd have to watch more Percy to get a full understanding of what I mean when I say hes a beast. He doesnt have great hands and is average at best as a route runner but with the ball in his hands he is amazing. He has the speed to outrun the defense and hes one of the very few guys his size that has the power to just bull over safetys if he needs a few extra yards. I mean he played a lot of running back for a pretty good college football team at Florida.

I just dont see this from Jenkins, sorry.

I think Jenkins will be more of a WR and not the playmaker Percy is.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Racer

Disagree with this. Upshaw seems like a tweener player and from I've heard he's poor in coverage and probably a bad fit as a 3-4 OLB. I would be very unhappy if he were the pick.

I'm hoping the Colts build up the offense around Luck tonight by taking Cordy Glenn, Coby Fleener, or Stephen Hill but I'd also be okay if they took somebody like Jerel Worthy, Devon Still, or Kendall Reyes if Grigson feels one of them is the BPA and will be a very good 3-4 DE in this league. Andre Branch as a 3-4 OLB might also make a bit of sense.

I guess I am just tired of the high powered offense and a shitty defense. I would rather they build the defense first this time around.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I guess I am just tired of the high powered offense and a shitty defense. I would rather they build the defense first this time around.

Good in theory but you need to get your new franchise QB some toys to play with.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

they traded him to cleveland for mike holmgrem. he's going to revolutionize the offense with bill walsh's 1978 stanford playbook.

What did the Chargers do to deserve this?

I think a piece of Bill Walsh's hair on the Chargers' sideline would do a better a job.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Im not seeing this comparison unless they both have headache issues.

Jenkins is undersized while Harvin is a beast as a WR. I think Jenkins can be a decent slot type WR but doesnt have close to Harvins ability of running after the catch.

Having seen a lot of Jenkins, I think his best case is more of a Steve Johnson than Harvin. But, I'm not sure he'll have the work ethic or consistency to be a top player. I see him having a "Bernard Berrian" career with some nice moments but a ton of frustrating ones as well (to bring it back to Minnesota).

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Arles

Having seen a lot of Jenkins, I think his best case is more of a Steve Johnson than Harvin. But, I'm not sure he'll have the work ethic or consistency to be a top player. I see him having a "Bernard Berrian" career with some nice moments but a ton of frustrating ones as well (to bring it back to Minnesota).

Yeah, that works.

The being undersized in the NFL is a scary quality unless you have some extremely rare quality to go with it(excellent hands, great run after the catch, extreme intelligence, hall of fame qb, work ethic as you mention, and of couse world class speed). Not sure if any of them qualities fall into place for Jenkins.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I think Jenkins will be more of a WR and not the playmaker Percy is.

well, it's obvious you lack the tuned eye of an official youtube scouting expert™ let's revisit some of my previous bold predictions-

'chad henne will be better than matt ryan'
there's still time!

'dexter jackson* will be better than desean jackson'
*in canada

'jarrett brown is a sleeper!'
i have it on the record that he does in fact sleep

that said, i like the kid's feet. reminds me of harvin. you can revisit the thread in a couple years and see how right i surely am.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

well, it's obvious you lack the tuned eye of an official youtube scouting expert™ let's revisit some of my previous bold predictions-

'chad henne will be better than matt ryan'
there's still time!

'dexter jackson* will be better than desean jackson'
*in canada

'jarrett brown is a sleeper!'
i have it on the record that he does in fact sleep

that said, i like the kid's feet. reminds me of harvin. you can revisit the thread in a couple years and see how right i surely am.

Haha,

I think we may have a misunderstanding. I didnt call your post to attention because I thought it was crazy in the sense that I think Jenkins is going to not be a good player. He may actually be a more productive player than Percy Harvin. I just didnt find the comparisons very good as I dont really think anyone in the league compares to Percy. He is basically an undersized running back playing the WR position.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

no, i get it. i'm saying explosive slot guy with return ability. actual numbers and such.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

no, i get it. i'm saying explosive slot guy with return ability. actual numbers and such.

Fair enough.

[Logan]

So, about that whole "don't tip picks" thing... | April

[Carman Bulldog]

If you believed that the Browns needed to get a QB with one of their remaining picks at 22 or 37, then I think taking Weeden at 22 was the right move instead of waiting for him and risking it.

Sitting at pick 22 and looking at the O-Linemen and seeing Reiff, Decastro, Zeitler, Martin, Glenn, Adams, Konz, and Massie still on the board or at WR and seeing Jenkins, Hill, Randle, Jeffery and Quick, they probably figured that it was a lot better to get Weeden and the bottom end of on of that group than get the top end of one of those guys and possibly risk losing Weeden, leaving them to take Osweiler(?) or missing out on a QB entirely in this spot.

Now, if you want to argue that they should have stuck with McCoy and gone some combination of WR/OL with both picks and then grab Osweiler/Foles/Cousins in the third of even a Russell Wilson/Ryan Lindley in the fourth, I could definitely get on board with that.

[Carman Bulldog]

Two players that I'm interested to see where they go in Round Two are Janoris Jankins and Mike Adams.

The Rams could easily take a chance on Jankins with their pick at 39, as I don't see one of the teams on the board in front of them taking him but I could see a team moving up and grabbing him. The Rams could even have a shot at Adams in the 45th spot. If the Rams can come out of this with Randle/Hill at 33, Jankins at 39 and Adams at 45, coupled with Brockers, you would have a very good draft that should take out some of the sting for their fans for missing out on Blackmon/Floyd/Claiborne.

I know the Patriots are limited in what they can do without any picks beyond their two in the second round, but they would be another team that would interest me if they landed Jankins, although I think they would need to move up again to do it and they don't have any currency this year to play with. But I definitely think that it's worth moving a 3rd round pick next year coupled with one of their seconds (it would likely have to be the 48th) to move up near the top of the round and grab Jenkins.

Last player that I'm really interested in is Russell Wilson. Put me in the camp that believes that he can succeed at the Pro level if given an opportunity. He's likely a day three pick, but I would love to see a quarterback needy team take a shot on him.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Back the Lions.

I am fine with their. He does look like a Jeff Backus clone, which has its good points and bad. The fact that he's a tough farm boy is good. I want tough, mean farm boys on the offensive line.

There were no good corners left and OL was an area of need. The other two OT options that were mentioned most – Mike Adams and John Martin – sounded awful. I read some draft guide that referred to them as soft, lazy, slow and disinterested in football. A horrible combination of traits for a tackle.

I really wanted them to take David DeCastro, who the Steelers drafted like two seconds after the Lions. They couldn't get the podium fast enough. I know guard isn’t a premium position, but he was supposed to be the best guard in the draft since Chad Hutchinson. How can you pass that up? Even if it is just a guard and not a tackle, that is huge. I wonder if this will be Jeff Backus and Chad Hutchinson 2.0?

I also liked that Cordy Glenn OT/OG. He'll be gone soon.

It will be interesting to see what the Lions do in the second round. They are still in desperate need of secondary help.

That's all I got.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Logan

So, about that whole "don't tip picks" thing... | April

The author mentions that is it totally absurd that someone would avoid twitter the whole night. I don't see what it is so absurd. I saw every pick announced last night and I didn't read twitter at all.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

The author mentions that is it totally absurd that someone would avoid twitter the whole night. I don't see what it is so absurd. I saw every pick announced last night and I didn't read twitter at all.

Me too.

I watched it with my brother. He was on his laptop and was looking at some sites - not Twitter - and I think there was only one pick that I knew was tipped off. I forget which one, but it was Mort on ESPN who blurted it out and Berman kept trying to qualify it.

Maybe I don't feel the need to constantly be watching Twietter, because I don't follow Twitter.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah - if you can't turn off your twitter-addiction then you should expect every "live" event to be spoiled for you. Not the NFL's fault.

Whiny crybaby author.

[Matthean]

Anything live like Twitter or a chant channel is going to be bad for keeping up at the pace of what is on TV. ESPN's chat channel was easily two minutes ahead of what was on TV.

[bhlloy]

So just watch TV then. Why would anyone partaking in live or social media expect things not to be tipped ahead of time and complain about it ruining a TV show they are watching? God forbid you just watch one of the two channels dedicated to this event without religiously following twitter at the same time.

It's just a writer trying to fill column space and trying to look like he's up with the times. Complete non story.

[mckerney]

[Coffee Warlord]

The 2012 Draft: Picture Analysis - Draft Countdown Forums

[BillJasper]

So has Holmgren actually accomplished anything in Cleveland? They seem worse now than when he took over and seem to be 'starting over' yet again.

[B & B]

HB is spot on.


Lions might have their hands tied in this round as we almost HAVE to take a CB.

We will be getting one of the following and I have them in this order of preference.


CB Josh Robinson (starter)
CB Trumaine Johnson (will compete at nickel and have a chance)
CB Brandon Boykin (excellent ST player to boot)

Another slight tier drop off to the last one on the board.


CB Alfonzo Dennard


Im not listing JJ for reasons that he wont be there/ we cant take him.

[Ksyrup]

C'mon, Delmon Young can mentor Jenkins.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by B & B

HB is spot on.


Lions might have their hands tied in this round as we almost HAVE to take a CB.

We will be getting one of the following and I have them in this order of preference.


CB Josh Robinson (starter)
CB Trumaine Johnson (will compete at nickel and have a chance)
CB Brandon Boykin (excellent ST player to boot)

Another slight tier drop off to the last one on the board.


CB Alfonzo Dennard


Im not listing JJ for reasons that he wont be there/ we cant take him.

I like that list for the second round. I will keep my fingers crossed that one of the first three makes it to the Lions. Though, I hopefully I didnt wastefully expend all of my draft juju on hoping DeCastro would fall to the Lions.

Did Alfonzo Dennard just get arrested for assaulting someone last week? A cop or something? Maybe he could hangout with Delman.

Janoris could kick back with Fairley, LeShoure and Charles Rogers.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by mckerney

You'd have to write alot smaller to do the Dolphins version of this.

[jbergey22]

Just some awful names on that list. When you are pissed off at a move your favorite team may make just think of that Browns QB list and be happy that you dont cheer for them

[stevew]

Yeah, the dolphin list would be enough to make an entire roll of paper towels

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yeah, the dolphin list would be enough to make an entire roll of paper towels

Just for grins, the Dolphin list since Marino's retirement:

Jay Fiedler, 61 GS, 37-24 (1-2 playoffs)
Chad Henne, 31 GS, 13-18
Chad Pennington, 21 GS, 12-9 (0-1 playoffs)
Gus Frerotte, 15 GS, 9-6
Matt Moore, 12 GS, 6-6
Joey Harrington, 11 GS, 5-6
A.J. Feeley, 8 GS, 3-5
Cleo Lemon, 8 GS, 1-7
Ray Lucas, 6 GS, 2-4
Brian Griese, 5 GS, 3-2
Trent Green, 5 GS, 0-5
Daunte Culpepper, 4 GS, 1-3
John Beck, 4 GS, 0-4
Damon Huard 2 GS, 1-1
Sage Rosenfels, 2 GS, 0-2
Tyler Thigpen, 1 GS, 0-1

Overall: 93-103 (1-3 playoffs)

Fiedler had a nice little career there.

[Matthean]

The Lions laugh at your attempts at listing a team's bad QBs. At least at the bottom of it there can be special mention of Stafford. Let's not forget Scott Mitchell is considered one of the team's best modern era QBs.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Just for grins, the Dolphin list since Marino's retirement:

Jay Fiedler, 61 GS, 37-24 (1-2 playoffs)
Chad Henne, 31 GS, 13-18
Chad Pennington, 21 GS, 12-9 (0-1 playoffs)
Gus Frerotte, 15 GS, 9-6
Matt Moore, 12 GS, 6-6
Joey Harrington, 11 GS, 5-6
A.J. Feeley, 8 GS, 3-5
Cleo Lemon, 8 GS, 1-7
Ray Lucas, 6 GS, 2-4
Brian Griese, 5 GS, 3-2
Trent Green, 5 GS, 0-5
Daunte Culpepper, 4 GS, 1-3
John Beck, 4 GS, 0-4
Damon Huard 2 GS, 1-1
Sage Rosenfels, 2 GS, 0-2
Tyler Thigpen, 1 GS, 0-1

Overall: 93-103 (1-3 playoffs)

Fiedler had a nice little career there.

As a Dolphins fan the irony of reminiscing fondly about Jay Fiedler is not lost on me. However, always thought he got a bum deal: his only crime was not being Marino

[larrymcg421]

Fiedler was pretty bad. He held some very talented teams back. According to Football Outsiders, he had one good year where he finished 8th in DYAR. His other three years were 19th, 20th, and 19th. He threw 67 TD and 63 INT in his Dolphins career.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Matthean

The Lions laugh at your attempts at listing a team's bad QBs. At least at the bottom of it there can be special mention of Stafford. Let's not forget Scott Mitchell is considered one of the team's best modern era QBs.

QB's who started a Lions game between Layne and Stafford.

1958-59- Tobin Rote
1959-64- Earl Morrell
1960-61- Jim Ninowski
1962-67- Milt Plum
1965- Georgie Izo
1966-67: Karl Sweetan
1968-75: Bill Munson
1968-78: Greg Landry
1975-77: Joe Reed
1977-84: Gary Danielson
1979-81: Jeff Komio
1981-89: Eric Hipple
1984: John Witkowski
1985-86: Joe Ferguson
1986-88: Chuck Long
1987: Todd Hons
1988: Rusty Hilger
1989-90: Bob Gagliano
1989-93: Rodney Peete
1990-93: Andre Ware
1991-93: Erik Kramer
1994: Dave Kreig
1994-98: Scott Mitchell
1996: Don Majkowski
1998-2001: Charlie Batch
1998: Frank Reich
1999: Gus Frerotte
2000: Stoney Case
2001: Ty Detmer
2001-02: Mike McMahon
2002-05: Joey Harrington
2005: Jeff Garcia
2006-08: Jon Kitna
2008: Dan Orlovsky
2008-09: Daunte Culpepper

35 QB's in 50 years.

And of course, Stanton and Hill have started at least once since Stafford was drafted.