Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Heck no, they won't cut the Rose Bowl out. But they've got the bargaining chip they need now with the deal that SEC/B12 has created. No one had taken that step before to show the bowls that they were willing to create a new system that cut them out. Now that they've done that, it's a whole different situation. The bowls are going to have to make major concessions to remain a part of this system. And they'll do so because the alternative is a frightening situation for those host cities and their committees.

Right, but the relationship between the Rose Bowl and the Pac 12 and Big Ten is so unique, it may not allow those conferences as much leverage to threaten to shop the game around to the highest bidder.

I'm sure the three parties will end up together, but it will be interesting to see if there is a quick and easy negotiation that takes a lot of money away from the Rose Bowl or if there will be a token shopping process where the conference have to pretend that they are willing to leave in order to get top dollar.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

As all this spins about, as a BYU fan...I sit here and wonder what the hell the school is doing. I don't see independence as a survivable option. If we don't get into a conference soon, we are dead.

From what I can tell, the BYU AD would love to be in the Big 12 and the Big 12 would love to have them (at least prior to ACC teams potentially being available), but the church and school are opposed to making concessions based on sports.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Right, but the relationship between the Rose Bowl and the Pac 12 and Big Ten is so unique, it may not allow those conferences as much leverage to threaten to shop the game around to the highest bidder.

I'm sure the three parties will end up together, but it will be interesting to see if there is a quick and easy negotiation that takes a lot of money away from the Rose Bowl or if there will be a token shopping process where the conference have to pretend that they are willing to leave in order to get top dollar.

Delany really needs to make some steps in the right direction that keep in line with what's happening. It seems like he's been a step behind through this playoff discussion. I think Scott is the better of the two commissioners and the Rose Bowl is obviously smack-dab in the middle of his territory. Scott needs to be the one to make it happen. If they don't, they risk falling behind financially if the other conference continue to pressure their bowls to make concessions. But I don't think it will reach that point. They'll get something done.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Heck no, they won't cut the Rose Bowl out. But they've got the bargaining chip they need now with the deal that SEC/B12 has created. No one had taken that step before to show the bowls that they were willing to create a new system that cut them out. Now that they've done that, it's a whole different situation. The bowls are going to have to make major concessions to remain a part of this system. And they'll do so because the alternative is a frightening situation for those host cities and their committees.

But reading between the lines isn't this SEC/Big 12 bowl just going to end up being the Cotton Bowl at Jerryworld? Or am I missing something?

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

From what I can tell, the BYU AD would love to be in the Big 12 and the Big 12 would love to have them (at least prior to ACC teams potentially being available), but the church and school are opposed to making concessions based on sports.

Correct, Sunday play is the major issue with the Big 12 on the sports, but I wouldn't mind being football only in the Big 12 but they do not want that.

It's going to be interesting how this shakes out.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by panerd

But reading between the lines isn't this SEC/Big 12 bowl just going to end up being the Cotton Bowl at Jerryworld? Or am I missing something?

It may be called the Cotton Bowl, but it is a new business model. It isn't going to be a bowl committee that manages it or assumes expenses/profits. it will be owned by the two conferences, with all the risk/reward assumed by them. You won't hear anymore about ticket guarantees or programs losing money. I suspect, as MBBF noted, that this will be the new model for bowls.

[Noop]

Florida State's potential move to the Big 12

On campus among those of us who are big Football fans this has been a huge debate. Given that I go to an ACC school they have been bashing Florida State, but I think deep down inside the ACC knows or should have known that this would happen after that poor contract with ESPN.

I hope the Big 12 brings Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and NC State or Virginia Tech. Would help with the travel and add plenty new markets for the Big 12.

[duckman]

Rumors are swirling that the Big XII is actually looking to go to 14 or 16 before the 2013-2014 season.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by duckman

Rumors are swirling that the Big XII is actually looking to go to 14 or 16 before the 2013-2014 season.

That's pretty much a given. Most would be shocked to not see that happen with both the SEC and B12 after the ACC contract debacle and the football agreement between the two conferences. The SEC will likely grab NC State and a school from the state of Virginia with the B12 picking up the rest to fill out to 16. That just makes sense at this point. It also provides the SEC and B12 with a lot of nice rivalry games to fill out the non-conference slate. The B12 obviously has decided after the MU and A&M move to go the way of 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'. It's a wise move and should bode well for them.

[General Mike]

[Swaggs]

The daily expansion item: FSU to the Big 12 – “It is Inevitable” | College Football News, Opinion and Analysis | Chuck Oliver.Net

This report is supposedly noteworthy because it was approved by the folks at FSU (apparently this writer, who I have never heard of before, values his connections within the AD and got approval). That would be in pretty stark contrast to the backtracking that school officials did last week when this type of stuff was floating around.

[Noop]

Ingram Smith is the host of a Seminole podcast over at Tomahawk Nation and according to the owner of the site Ingram's source is rock solid.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This sounds about right. This is the B12 that Mizzou fans grew to know and dislike. I have NO idea who the one pushing hard to prevent it might be.

Sources: Big 12 expansion breakdown: 4 schools OK with it, 4 on fence, 1 pushing hard to make it happen, 1 pushing hard to prevent it.

Dave Sittler Twitter

[sterlingice]

I'm guessing KU would be in the "Ok with it" category or possibly fence as we've seen that the only home we have outside the Big XII is an outside shot at the Pac-Whatever or if the ACC stays together and wants hoops

SI

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This sounds about right. This is the B12 that Mizzou fans grew to know and dislike. I have NO idea who the one pushing hard to prevent it might be.



Dave Sittler Twitter

From what the WVU people have been hearing Texas and OU are both ok with going to 12 if it's the right 2 that they're adding. I think it's probably safe to say that FSU and Clemson would be the right 2. For things to be that split I would guess that what he's reporting is how teams view going to 14 because Texas and OU have reportedly been against adding any teams that don't bring significant value. That's a big reason the Louisville to the Big 12 talk died down as the TV networks told the Big 12 neither Cincy or Louisville would add much in terms of dollars to the TV contract.

Supposedly the SEC has also advised the Big 12 to get to 12 teams, but to take a very long look at any 2 they'd consider to get to 14.

[cartman]

Talk in Austin has been back around Notre Dame coming on board, especially if the final playoff structure that is agreed upon requires at least a division championship to be eligible. The Irish TV deal expires in 2015, but there likely won't be time to wait for that to come before making the expansion moves.

[Swaggs]

Read an interesting piece about why ESPN is in no hurry to keep FSU from leaving the ACC. With Miami already in the ACC (and of course Florida in the SEC), allowing FSU to join the Big 12 gets all of those eyeballs in Florida watching non-SEC and non-ACC games in a (primarily) different timezone and vice versa.

Much like A&M leaving the Big 12 does not really dampen viewership in the Big 12 (while growing that of the SEC), FSU leaving wouldn't cut out the state of Florida and only increases interest elsewhere.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

SEC makes adjustments with officiating, considers mid-season review of bad calls on SEC Digital Network........

SEC football officiating makes adjustments for Texas A&M and Missouri arrivals | al.com

[dawgfan]

For those that like to follow the financial angle - interesting article in USA Today citing research by a college sports rights-valuation firm that predicts that the Pac-12 will still be pulling in more money per school than any other conference by the time the Pac-12 Network is full steam, even after the SEC renegotiates their current deals:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...als/55095542/1

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

Sporting News is reporting that SEC is in process of creating its own TV network, expected to start in 2014. Also reporting that new TV deal should be done relatively soon.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-foo...-cable-channel

[RedKingGold]

darren rovell‏@darrenrovell
SportsBusiness Journal: CBS doesn't want to pay more for new SEC, arguing Missouri & Texas A&M don't add significant value.

.

[Ksyrup]

Enjoying #SECNetworkTVShows

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

.

I thought the networks had their hands in the whole realignment business anyway -- wouldn't a deal have already been worked out?

[Toddzilla]

Heard from a friend that VT is in full-on panic mode. The recent men's basketball disaster notwithstanding, the writing is on the wall that now - more than ever - the ACC is going to tack heavily towards basketball, leaving VT, FSU, and Miami basically powerless.

As far as the Big 12 is concerned, that's a non-starter in Blacksburg. It's SEC all the way with the only other hope being some amalgam of the ACC, Big East, and Notre Dame to maintain whatever shred of relevancy towards college football is left.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I thought the networks had their hands in the whole realignment business anyway -- wouldn't a deal have already been worked out?

No. CBS is trying to play hardball with their argument, but it's a losing argument. There will be a substantial increase in payout, no matter whether CBS buckles or if an arbitrator decides it.

[Swaggs]

CBS might have a decent case because they don't really televise all that many games (comparatively) and they likely aren't going to show any additional games (and realistically, how many of the marquee ones are going to show the new teams?).

I would think that the significant bump up for the SEC would come from ESPN with the increased inventory of games

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

No. CBS is trying to play hardball with their argument, but it's a losing argument. There will be a substantial increase in payout, no matter whether CBS buckles or if an arbitrator decides it.

Keep telling yourself that.

Here's a link to the full article: SEC looking at cable channel as media rights talks with CBS, ESPN near - NCAA Football - Sporting News

This part stands out:

Sources think the conference will reach an agreement with CBS first. Those sources familiar with the discussions predict that CBS will wind up paying a prorated increase or slightly more to the SEC.

The network has balked at paying any type of significant increase, sources say, arguing that the addition of Missouri and Texas A&M does not change its deal.

CBS’s deal with the SEC, negotiated in 2008, pays an average of $55 million a year to the SEC over 15 years. A prorated increase would take the value of that deal up to $65 million a year. The SEC could generate additional revenue by adding more years on the end of the contract.

CBS still will carry the same number of football games each season as part of its package, and network executives are arguing that schools such as Alabama, Florida and LSU—not Missouri and Texas A&M—drive the value of the conference. Without additional inventory, CBS’s stance has been that it shouldn’t pay more solely because the conference added two new schools.

[Ksyrup]

What's CBS going to do? UF/UGA at 3:30 and aTm/UK at 8pm head-to-head with the ABC/ESPN/ESPN2/FOX games? I'm not sure I'd pay all that much for the opportunity, either.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

CBS might have a decent case because they don't really televise all that many games (comparatively) and they likely aren't going to show any additional games (and realistically, how many of the marquee ones are going to show the new teams?).

I would think that the significant bump up for the SEC would come from ESPN with the increased inventory of games

This is a fair point assuming no addition of games on Saturday on their network. I had heard they were considering adding a third game before the 3:30 game on CBS. If that doesn't happen, you're absolutely correct.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by cartman

I take that to mean that the move at first would be basically a wash financially, but the renegotiated deal would get them an extra $12 million/year. Since the SEC distributes all revenue equally, than means that the renegotiation would have to increase by $12 million times the number of teams. Since the current deal with ESPN is for 15 years/$2.2 billion, I don't see the renegotiation adding another $1.6 billion over 10 years for adding two (or even 4) more teams. The CBS deal was also for 15 years, but only $800 million, as CBS doesn't have as many outlets, so bought fewer game rights. I don't see that one increasing a whole lot more either for the addition of 2 or 4 teams.

Hmmm........................

[Marmel]

I heard an interview with the Syracuse AD today and in it he mentions something curious. Now, he may be spinning this to make the ACC look better, but here is the gist of it:

He discusses "multimedia rights" as being kept by the schools in the ACC deal while other conference deals the schools lose those rights which bumps the value to around 24-25 mil.

If this is true, I wonder (1) why this has not been reported elsewhere and (2) if true, would FSU, etc still want to jump to the Big12?

Anybody know anything about this?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting article discussing value of schools related to the realignment moves........

What's Your College Football Program Worth? Introducing Realignment Value Rankings - SBNation.com

[Toddzilla]

Because perception is reality and the actual value of multimedia rights ain't jack shit when you're recruiting a kid to come to a school that's part of an irrelevant conference.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Marmel

I heard an interview with the Syracuse AD today and in it he mentions something curious. Now, he may be spinning this to make the ACC look better, but here is the gist of it:

He discusses "multimedia rights" as being kept by the schools in the ACC deal while other conference deals the schools lose those rights which bumps the value to around 24-25 mil.

If this is true, I wonder (1) why this has not been reported elsewhere and (2) if true, would FSU, etc still want to jump to the Big12?

Anybody know anything about this?

Gross is an idiot who thinks its a good idea to play premier opponents 300 miles away from campus. ESPN owns the rights to whatever they want from the ACC.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Gross is an idiot who thinks its a good idea to play premier opponents 300 miles away from campus. ESPN owns the rights to whatever they want from the ACC.

I should have specified I was looking for unbiased opinions.

[timmynausea]

Several interesting tweets from Greg Swaim today:

I'm told that #ND will jump in #Big12 very soon with Olympic sports, and then football joins after TV contract expires. #BlowsMyMind

The #ND deal apparently was a catalyst for getting #FSU aboard all along. This thing is happening fast now for the #Big12...

The time frame for #ND phasing in football could allow them to phase out contracts with #Purdue, #MSU, #GoBlue, #USC, #Stanford or #Navy.

@TruckinTWrites I believe strongly that #Clemson is in for 2013 with #FSU.

#CardNation sources telling me they have an invite also, but can't get any #Big12 sources to confirm. They won't deny either though.

[Swaggs]

Sounds too good to be true. I can see ND joining for Olympic sports, but not football. I guess they could continue getting East Coast exposure with Navy and West Coast exposure with USC, but it would be next to impossible to imagine them playing 8 conference games, those two, plus even one more traditional rival (Stanford, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, etc.).

If, by some long shot, they do join. I really hope they don't try to leverage the Big 12 into bringing B.C. along (I've heard they will want a Northeast presence to partner with). I would literally rather be in a conference with any other ACC team (plus most of the current/future Big East teams) than B.C.

[tarcone]

I guess it makes sense for ND to join the Big 12. Wider exposure to their national fan base. Partnership with the SEC. But it would sure make me mad.
And if ND doesnt join the B1G, I think the B1G stays at 12. Looking over that table posted earlier, I dont see a team that the B1G would go after. Maryland? Rutgers? I dont see it. I dont know how the B1G gets to 16.

[bronconick]

I have serious doubts about Notre Dame joining a conference in this decade. However, I think you'll hear more about this sort of thing, because any Irish AD that wants to join a conference is going to have to do some serious selling to boosters, alumni and fans. It's also why you hear less about joining the Big Ten. There's a block of them that would rather drop football then join the Big Ten.

[digamma]

The play-off thing is going to be a huge determining factor. If it is based on conference champions, Notre Dame joins a conference. They don't have the leverage they had in the mid-90s.

[Ksyrup]

Yep. What's been floated is the 3 highest-ranked conference champs and the highest-ranked non-champ. Think ND is ever getting into a playoff in that scenario?

[Ksyrup]

TomahawkNation.com ‏@TomahawkNation
At the 80% football/20% hoops number from TDP/Swofford, #FSU / #Clemson made up a quarter of the ACC's value in 2011

[Ksyrup]

TomahawkNation.com ‏@TomahawkNation
Put it another way, FSU/Clem (25%) were about as valuable as BC/Duke/MD/Wake/UNC (27%)

[Swaggs]

It really is too bad that Maryland and UNC do no take football more seriously. Maryland, in particular, has great academics, a great media market, and access to a tremendous amount of talent.

[britrock88]

UNC tried...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Dodds, errrrr, Chip Brown reporting that B12 has interest from four schools.

Sources: ACC schools starting to put out feelers to Big 12

Someone should let B12 commish Chuck Neinas in on the secret. He insisted yesterday that the B12 had no interest in expanding to 12 or 14 teams. This is what happens when you use this guy as the commish in your conference.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Dodds, errrrr, Chip Brown reporting that B12 has interest from four schools.

Sources: ACC schools starting to put out feelers to Big 12

Someone should let B12 commish Chuck Neinas in on the secret. He insisted yesterday that the B12 had no interest in expanding to 12 or 14 teams. This is what happens when you use this guy as the commish in your conference.

Yet when it was the SEC saying the same thing about Mizzou and aTm, you were all about "of course the conference is saying that, so there are no implications of tampering". Also, your Chip Brown inferiority complex is quite amusing.

[Logan]

Round and round we go.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by bronconick

It's also why you hear less about joining the Big Ten. There's a block of them that would rather drop football then join the Big Ten.

Just curious. Reasons for the anti-Big Ten sentiments?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by cartman

Yet when it was the SEC saying the same thing about Mizzou and aTm, you were all about "of course the conference is saying that, so there are no implications of tampering". Also, your Chip Brown inferiority complex is quite amusing.

No kidding. Why would a guy on his way out set up his conference for a tampering lawsuit, or even bad PR?

They are playing this the way ever conference has, and should, play it. Deny until the school has made a decision to drive off the cliff, then pretend as if the communications have formally begun at the moment the school publicly outs itself as interested in joining X conference.