The Obama Presidency - 2008 & 2012 - Page 137

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I wouldve expected your first comment about the oversight would have been positive in that the rules were so tight that they were careful not give out or subsidize people too loosely. Instead you left that out. It is true that the plan isnt working out like I had hoped and still hope but you simply left out...for your fiscal vein that you admit is so conservative, that the administration's oversight is too careful, too conservative. strange you didnt opine on that.

It wasn't too careful. They just plain screwed it up.

Flasch186 · 12-08-2009, 07:53 AM

right you didnt have any leanings in your intro to the link to the article. you didnt lay the blame squarely on one thing and conveniently left out all of the other things involved. You didnt spin like a dreidel...like you always do. your reflux is amazing and then when it hits the plate you paint it up. amazing.

DaddyTorgo · 12-08-2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186

right you didnt have any leanings in your intro to the link to the article. you didnt lay the blame squarely on one thing and conveniently left out all of the other things involved. You didnt spin like a dreidel...like you always do. your reflux is amazing and then when it hits the plate you paint it up. amazing.

Exactly. The only reason I went in and pulled out all the info MBBF was because in your link into the article and your lil sentence about it you left out all the other causes and tried to lay the blame squarely on one thing. And lord knows, the program has been such a fucking failure (and I do agree with you there, you're right), a colossal fucking failure, that there is plenty of blame to go around - plenty of blame for the lenders too.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Exactly. The only reason I went in and pulled out all the info MBBF was because in your link into the article and your lil sentence about it you left out all the other causes and tried to lay the blame squarely on one thing. And lord knows, the program has been such a fucking failure (and I do agree with you there, you're right), a colossal fucking failure, that there is plenty of blame to go around - plenty of blame for the lenders too.

I posted all the data in the form of a link. I'm not sure how much more forthright I can be. If I put all information in the post, there's no need to post the article. But whatever. As you have said, you agree that it's been a failure. Good to see we can agree on that.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 08:19 AM

Another indicator of how the job loss effects other parts of the economy. Social Security has entered its 6th month of defecits.

Social Security's Grim Milestone: Half a Year in the Red | e21 - An initiative for 21st Century Economic Policies

DaddyTorgo · 12-08-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I posted all the data in the form of a link. I'm not sure how much more forthright I can be. If I put all information in the post, there's no need to post the article. But whatever. As you have said, you agree that it's been a failure. Good to see we can agree on that.

Would have been less biased if you'd posted the link and said something like "looks like a lot of different reasons why the HAMP program failed" or something, instead of trying to lay it all at the feet of government oversight.

Flasch186 · 12-08-2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I posted all the data in the form of a link. I'm not sure how much more forthright I can be. If I put all information in the post, there's no need to post the article. But whatever. As you have said, you agree that it's been a failure. Good to see we can agree on that.

its the leadin combined, stop parsing.

Flasch186 · 12-08-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Would have been less biased if you'd posted the link and said something like "looks like a lot of different reasons why the HAMP program failed" or something, instead of trying to lay it all at the feet of government oversight.

YES!

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Would have been less biased if you'd posted the link and said something like "looks like a lot of different reasons why the HAMP program failed" or something, instead of trying to lay it all at the feet of government oversight.

I don't consider the various rejections of overfinanced or irresponsible mortgages holders as reasons the program failed. They were properly rejected. I consider the fail to be on two levels.

1. Any average idiot could have told this administration that there would be a high level of mortgages that could not be salvaged and did so when this legislation was passed, yet they chose not to listen.

2. They rejected a LOT of people who could have been helped.

Flasch186 · 12-08-2009, 08:43 AM

...and will ignore the commentary about my obvious spin in the originating post so I can continue to do the same bullshit over and over again thus minimizing the validity or seriousness in which the information or stance I take on topics is looked at.

JPhillips · 12-08-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

I merely cited the situations the government could control, which was the formula as you mentioned. I said nothing about the other situations,

does not equal

Quote:

Good discussion about the reasons why the foreclosure program has failed. It appears the Obama administration oversight is the main reason for the failure.

DaddyTorgo · 12-08-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I don't consider the various rejections of overfinanced or irresponsible mortgages holders as reasons the program failed. They were properly rejected. I consider the fail to be on two levels.

1. Any average idiot could have told this administration that there would be a high level of mortgages that could not be salvaged and did so when this legislation was passed, yet they chose not to listen.

2. They rejected a LOT of people who could have been helped.

point of fact - it wasn't the government who rejected them, it was the lenders

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

does not equal

We disagree 100%. The only part the government could control was the people who should have been taken care of under this bill. The main failure was the screw up of the administration to appropriately award help. As DT stated, the other problems fall on the mortgage holder and have nothing to do with what was done incorrectly. Those aren't a failure of the law. The failure was the parts that the government could have fixed, but failed to do so.

flere-imsaho · 12-08-2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I merely cited the situations the government could control, which was the formula as you mentioned. I said nothing about the other situations, but feel free to lump it all in if it makes your argument.

You mean like this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It appears the Obama administration oversight is the main reason for the failure.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

point of fact - it wasn't the government who rejected them, it was the lenders

And the lenders were working within the rules created by the administration/Congress in the bill. They didn't make up their own rules.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

You mean like this?

Main.....primary.....whatever you want to call it. It's a nice spin to try to say it's the mortgage holders fault for failing to pay or qualify, but as the article and the committee correctly cited, the failure was in the adminstration. They could have helped a lot of people but failed to do so. They screwed up the process to award help.

DaddyTorgo · 12-08-2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Main.....primary.....whatever you want to call it. It's a nice spin to try to say it's the mortgage holders fault for failing to pay or qualify, but as the article and the committee correctly cited, the failure was in the adminstration. They could have helped a lot of people but failed to do so. They screwed up the process to award help.

i've agreed with you that they screwed up their "formula" or whatever that was on the website that they apparently had people checking, and screwed it up by failing to communicate with the banks what that formula was and figure out to whom (or at what risk level) the banks were willing to lend.

it's definately the fault of the mortgage holders though for failing to pay or failing to include all the required documents, or not signing all the right documents. And if that's 49/85 of the people who weren't approved there isn't any way that you can sit there and say that the primary/majority fault lies with the government. It's simply not statistically true. There's no way those people would have been successful no matter what the process was. You can't argue with the numbers.

that being said, i'm certainly not letting the government off blame-free, and i don't want to come off like i am. they could have done a much better job in making sure the 36/85 that were rejected for other reasons were approved. but....just FYI...36 is less than 49. 36/85 is not MAJORITY. You'd need 43 to be majority. 49/85 on the other hand, is majority.

it's definately the government's fault for not sitting all the lenders down in one room and saying "okay what level of risk could you live with?" and getting some sort of pre-approval of that.

it's probably also the government's fault that it wasn't pushed out to enough people also, and didn't become more widespread.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

it's definately the fault of the mortgage holders though for failing to pay or failing to include all the required documents, or not signing all the right documents. And if that's 49/85 of the people who weren't approved there isn't any way that you can sit there and say that the primary/majority fault lies with the government. It's simply not statistically true. There's no way those people would have been successful no matter what the process was. You can't argue with the numbers.

I'm not arguing with the numbers. The '49' that you cite is NOT a failure. The policy worked in those cases. The failure is where the bill did not worked as advertised and the primary failure by a long shot was the screw-up that lead to many people being rejected when they should have been accepted.

Flasch186 · 12-08-2009, 09:29 AM

the failure is your leadin.

DaddyTorgo · 12-08-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm not arguing with the numbers. The '49' that you cite is NOT a failure. The policy worked in those cases. The failure is where the bill did not worked as advertised and the primary failure by a long shot was the screw-up that lead to many people being rejected when they should have been accepted.

well then take the 49 out of it and say.

"Out of every 51 cases, 15 were a success and 36 were a failure."

Problem is that even in those 36 cases it seems by the description that there are some where it was missing signatures or incomplete documentation, or whatever. We'd really have to see the raw data to judge with any effectiveness.

That being said, I would agree with you that in those 36 cases the government has a (varying) degree of culpability for the failures (depending on the individual reasons) - not necessarily based on OVERSIGHT, but based on the fact that they fucked up by not sitting all the lenders down beforehand and saying "okay what level of risk are you going to take on with these negotiations" and getting everyone to agree to that via some horse-trading.

Of course if they'd done that they'd probably be catching flack for whatever they traded away to get the program done I'm sure...right?

I would have certainly liked for the program to have helped more people though. It's pretty embarassing at this point how few people it has helped given how much fanfare it was launched with (again though I think they also didn't really market it correctly to the general public - definately not enough applications to it).

JPhillips · 12-08-2009, 12:58 PM

Massachusetts AG released their report on the ACORN video. On illegal activity:

Quote:

While some of the advice and counsel given by ACORN employees and volunteers was clearly inappropriate and unprofessional, we did not find a pattern of intentional, illegal conduct by ACORN staff; in fact, there is no evidence that action, illegal or otherwise, was taken by any ACORN employee on behalf of the videographers.

And then this new piece of information,

Quote:

The videos that have been released appear to have been edited, in some cases substantially, including the insertion of a substitute voiceover for significant portions of Mr. O'Keefe's and Ms. Giles's comments, which makes it difficult to determine the questions to which ACORN employees are responding. A comparison of the publicly available transcripts to the released videos confirms that large portions of the original video have been omitted from the released versions.

DaddyTorgo · 12-08-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And then this new piece of information,

Oooooh! See now that's really fucking interesting.

Course the damage is done - I'm sure they won't be getting their funding back.

albionmoonlight · 12-08-2009, 01:02 PM

You are starting to get more and more of the left wing mad at Obama for not being Che Guevara.

I agree with these Andrew Sullivan readers who think that those leftists are out of their minds: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...-left-ctd.html

gstelmack · 12-08-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Oooooh! See now that's really fucking interesting.

We've hit the point with technology where photo and/or video evidence needs to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt, a point we hit with written evidence a long time ago. Whether it's cutting out large portions that show WHY someone (like a cop) reacted the way they did thanks to all the baiting before hand, or adding bits for effect like the photos from the Israeli strikes on Lebanon that added lots of smoke, to changing the content entirely like these voiceovers, digital editing allows for some pretty good forgeries that the public will willingly believe and the news media seems to have no problem plastering all over the place without verification.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Oooooh! See now that's really fucking interesting.

Course the damage is done - I'm sure they won't be getting their funding back.

Let's not get crazy here. While there might not be a pattern that the AG could establish, there have been incidents previous to these videos that called into question some of ACORN's tactics. If this was the first issue, their funding would have never been pulled by Congress. They were targeted because of previous incidents. This is not even close to the innocent lamb being led to the slaughter that you'd like to portray.

DaddyTorgo · 12-08-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Let's not get crazy here. While there might not be a pattern that the AG could establish, there have been incidents previous to these videos that called into question some of ACORN's tactics. If this was the first issue, their funding would have never been pulled by Congress. They were targeted because of previous incidents. This is not even close to the innocent lamb being led to the slaughter that you'd like to portray.

spin-spin-spin!!!

don't you ever fall over from spinning so fast?

flere-imsaho · 12-08-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Let's not get crazy here.

Agreed 100%. After all, out of the hundreds of ACORN offices nationwide, these documentarians only managed to find three where the staff misbehaved in a manner they could use for their video, and it turns out they actually had to doctor said video to make it suitably controversial.

That's what you meant, right?

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

spin-spin-spin!!!

don't you ever fall over from spinning so fast?

Who's spinning? ACORN has been in hot water several times before. Just because you agreed with what they were trying to do in previous incidents doesn't make it right.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Agreed 100%. After all, out of the hundreds of ACORN offices nationwide, these documentarians only managed to find three where the staff misbehaved in a manner they could use for their video, and it turns out they actually had to doctor said video to make it suitably controversial.

That's what you meant, right?

I personally don't agree with the tactics used, but ACORN has a questionable history even before these videos. This is far from the first time they've been brought under scrutiny.

I know you're intelligent enough to know what I actually meant, so I won't take that any further.

Flasch186 · 12-08-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Let's not get crazy here. While there might not be a pattern that the AG could establish, there have been incidents previous to these videos that called into question some of ACORN's tactics. If this was the first issue, their funding would have never been pulled by Congress. They were targeted because of previous incidents. This is not even close to the innocent lamb being led to the slaughter that you'd like to portray.

BS

they lost the funding due to the public uproar and outcry drummed up by the video and its hitting on mainstream news repeatedly. Thus your congressman had to act to put out the fire and show that no matter the D or R they would act to reign in fraud. I hope that theyre just as fast in giving back the funding now that this has come out.

Youre a spin doctor of the highest account. These last few pages for you have been golden in your drive to keep your credibility as low as possible.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186

BS

they lost the funding due to the public uproar and outcry drummed up by the video and its hitting on mainstream news repeatedly. Thus your congressman had to act to put out the fire and show that no matter the D or R they would act to reign in fraud. I hope that theyre just as fast in giving back the funding now that this has come out.

We disagree there. I hope they're smart enough to never give it back to ACORN or any other organization that abuses their position and funding.

Flasch186 · 12-08-2009, 02:11 PM

um, they didnt abuse it....except you'll disagree, and never ever admit to ever being wrong about anything. Im not sure why you discuss or debate.

the only abuse that occurred was using an AVID machine by those with an agenda...apparently.

sabotai · 12-08-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Massachusetts AG released their report on the ACORN video. On illegal activity:

And then this new piece of information,

Sounds like the guy is a graduate of the "Michael Moore School of Documentary Film Production".

Flasch186 · 12-08-2009, 02:17 PM

Except the damage done to the company was pretty devastating. Im not sure Moore has had such an effect but Im not sure and could be wrong...

CamEdwards · 12-08-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Massachusetts AG released their report on the ACORN video. On illegal activity:

And then this new piece of information,

Just a minor correction... this report was an internal report done by ACORN, headed up by former Massachusetts Attorney General Scott Harshbarger, not current Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley.

JPhillips · 12-08-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

Just a minor correction... this report was an internal report done by ACORN, headed up by former Massachusetts Attorney General Scott Harshbarger, not current Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley.

Thanks for the correction.

I still don't feel too sorry for ACORN(although I have sympathy for those they were trying to help), but I'd sure like to see a public correction of what happened. I'd also love it if the douchebags who did this got hammered as hard as they were praised by some on the right.

Flasch186 · 12-08-2009, 03:34 PM

that's extremely important....seriously. I dont think that that is a minor correction.

DaddyTorgo · 12-08-2009, 03:36 PM

good point by Cam - i'd forgotten about that

JPhillips · 12-08-2009, 03:45 PM

Jesus H. Christ Senators are stupid.

Quote:

The United States would begin financing its military engagements in Iraq and Afghanistan with war bonds under new legislation introduced Tuesday.

Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) unveiled the "United States War Bonds Act of 2009" early this afternoon, which would authorize the Treasury Department to begin selling bonds to fund the wars.

Does that mean we can just forget about the entire deficit if we call war bonds?

DaddyTorgo · 12-08-2009, 03:46 PM

i'm not buying any

RainMaker · 12-08-2009, 03:58 PM

ACORN deserved to lose it's funding. I'm sure the videos were doctored in some ways to spin the truth, but there are a lot of other incidents. I know it may be small in the grand scheme of things, but there should be a zero tolerance policy when it comes to our tax dollars funding organizations like this.

I still find the fervor over ACORN funny though. They are really a small piece of the pie. If you want to tackle contractor abuse, why not look into the military ones? They are paid much more and have commited murder as well as protected and allowed rapists to roam free. That tops some dopes telling a prostitute how to make hide money.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you're going to go after abuse of tax dollars by contracted groups/companies, there are much bigger fish to fry.

sabotai · 12-08-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Jesus H. Christ Senators are stupid.

Does that mean we can just forget about the entire deficit if we call war bonds?

At least it's a chance to see if those who are adamantly supportive of the wars will put their money where their mouth is.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

ACORN deserved to lose it's funding. I'm sure the videos were doctored in some ways to spin the truth, but there are a lot of other incidents. I know it may be small in the grand scheme of things, but there should be a zero tolerance policy when it comes to our tax dollars funding organizations like this.

I still find the fervor over ACORN funny though. They are really a small piece of the pie. If you want to tackle contractor abuse, why not look into the military ones? They are paid much more and have commited murder as well as protected and allowed rapists to roam free. That tops some dopes telling a prostitute how to make hide money.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you're going to go after abuse of tax dollars by contracted groups/companies, there are much bigger fish to fry.

Has someone said that they shouldn't go after those contractors? I've posted multiple links to Blackwater investigations. You're acting like someone is opposed to exposing corruption? Which posters specifically have said that only the ACORN corruption should be outed rather than all corruption?

molson · 12-08-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabotai

At least it's a chance to see if those who are adamantly supportive of the wars will put their money where their mouth is.

Nah, it's the same as the liberal agenda - everyone wants someone else to spend the money, anybody but them.

RainMaker · 12-08-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Has someone said that they shouldn't go after those contractors? I've posted multiple links to Blackwater investigations. You're acting like someone is opposed to exposing corruption? Which posters specifically have said that only the ACORN corruption should be outed rather than all corruption?

I'm opposed to spending all the focus on the guy stealing a pack of gum from the store while a group of guys rob the warehouse with a truck.

I know the ACORN is the conservative rallying cry these days. Just find it hypocritical they spend countless hours on a tiny organization while being too pussy to mention how many billions have been stolen or wasted by contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan. That some people giving advice on tax evasion are worse than murderers and rapists.

RainMaker · 12-08-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabotai

At least it's a chance to see if those who are adamantly supportive of the wars will put their money where their mouth is.

They aren't willing to put their bodies on the frontlines so I doubt they'll put their money their either.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I know the ACORN is the conservative rallying cry these days.

Remind me.......what was the vote total in Congress to remove funding for ACORN? I'm guessing it was along partisan lines judging from your comment, but wanted to make sure.

RainMaker · 12-08-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Remind me.......what was the vote total in Congress to remove funding for ACORN? I'm guessing it was along partisan lines judging from your comment, but wanted to make sure.

Go to any conservative site and run a search on ACORN and then one on Blackwater. Tell me what you find.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 12-08-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Go to any conservative site and run a search on ACORN and then one on Blackwater. Tell me what you find.

Go to any liberal site and run a search on Blackwater and then one on ACORN. Tell me what you find.

What's your point? Are we only considering corruption now based on who exposes it? Your dodge of my question is very telling.

molson · 12-08-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

What's your point? Are we only considering corruption now based on who exposes it? Your dodge of my question is very telling.

No, corruption is judged on who commits it.

View Poll Results: How is Obama doing? (poll started 6/6)
Great - above my expectations	18	6.87%
Good - met most of my expectations	66	25.19%
Average - so so, disappointed a little	64	24.43%
Bad - sold us out	101	38.55%
Trout - don't know yet	13	4.96%
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll

12-08-2009, 07:53 AM	#6802
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	right you didnt have any leanings in your intro to the link to the article. you didnt lay the blame squarely on one thing and conveniently left out all of the other things involved. You didnt spin like a dreidel...like you always do. your reflux is amazing and then when it hits the plate you paint it up. amazing. __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL Last edited by Flasch186 : 12-08-2009 at 07:56 AM.

12-08-2009, 08:43 AM	#6810
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	...and will ignore the commentary about my obvious spin in the originating post so I can continue to do the same bullshit over and over again thus minimizing the validity or seriousness in which the information or stance I take on topics is looked at. __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL

12-08-2009, 09:29 AM	#6819
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	the failure is your leadin. __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL Last edited by Flasch186 : 12-08-2009 at 09:29 AM.

12-08-2009, 02:11 PM	#6832
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	um, they didnt abuse it....except you'll disagree, and never ever admit to ever being wrong about anything. Im not sure why you discuss or debate. the only abuse that occurred was using an AVID machine by those with an agenda...apparently. __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL Last edited by Flasch186 : 12-08-2009 at 02:13 PM.

12-08-2009, 08:19 AM	#6805
Mizzou B-ball fan General Manager Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kansas City, MO	Another indicator of how the job loss effects other parts of the economy. Social Security has entered its 6th month of defecits. Social Security's Grim Milestone: Half a Year in the Red \| e21 - An initiative for 21st Century Economic Policies

12-08-2009, 01:02 PM	#6823
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	You are starting to get more and more of the left wing mad at Obama for not being Che Guevara. I agree with these Andrew Sullivan readers who think that those leftists are out of their minds: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...-left-ctd.html

12-08-2009, 02:17 PM	#6834
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	Except the damage done to the company was pretty devastating. Im not sure Moore has had such an effect but Im not sure and could be wrong... __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL

12-08-2009, 03:34 PM	#6837
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	that's extremely important....seriously. I dont think that that is a minor correction. __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL Last edited by Flasch186 : 12-08-2009 at 03:35 PM.

12-08-2009, 03:36 PM	#6838
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	good point by Cam - i'd forgotten about that __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

12-08-2009, 03:46 PM	#6840
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	i'm not buying any __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

12-08-2009, 03:58 PM	#6841
RainMaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	ACORN deserved to lose it's funding. I'm sure the videos were doctored in some ways to spin the truth, but there are a lot of other incidents. I know it may be small in the grand scheme of things, but there should be a zero tolerance policy when it comes to our tax dollars funding organizations like this. I still find the fervor over ACORN funny though. They are really a small piece of the pie. If you want to tackle contractor abuse, why not look into the military ones? They are paid much more and have commited murder as well as protected and allowed rapists to roam free. That tops some dopes telling a prostitute how to make hide money. I guess what I'm saying is that if you're going to go after abuse of tax dollars by contracted groups/companies, there are much bigger fish to fry.

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