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View Poll Results: How is Obama doing? (poll started 6/6) | |||
Great - above my expectations | 18 | 6.87% | |
Good - met most of my expectations | 66 | 25.19% | |
Average - so so, disappointed a little | 64 | 24.43% | |
Bad - sold us out | 101 | 38.55% | |
Trout - don't know yet | 13 | 4.96% | |
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll |
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12-08-2009, 07:51 AM | #6801 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
It wasn't too careful. They just plain screwed it up. |
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12-08-2009, 07:53 AM | #6802 |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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right you didnt have any leanings in your intro to the link to the article. you didnt lay the blame squarely on one thing and conveniently left out all of the other things involved. You didnt spin like a dreidel...like you always do. your reflux is amazing and then when it hits the plate you paint it up. amazing.
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL Last edited by Flasch186 : 12-08-2009 at 07:56 AM. |
12-08-2009, 08:05 AM | #6803 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Exactly. The only reason I went in and pulled out all the info MBBF was because in your link into the article and your lil sentence about it you left out all the other causes and tried to lay the blame squarely on one thing. And lord knows, the program has been such a fucking failure (and I do agree with you there, you're right), a colossal fucking failure, that there is plenty of blame to go around - plenty of blame for the lenders too.
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Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature. |
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12-08-2009, 08:16 AM | #6804 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
I posted all the data in the form of a link. I'm not sure how much more forthright I can be. If I put all information in the post, there's no need to post the article. But whatever. As you have said, you agree that it's been a failure. Good to see we can agree on that. |
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12-08-2009, 08:19 AM | #6805 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Another indicator of how the job loss effects other parts of the economy. Social Security has entered its 6th month of defecits.
Social Security's Grim Milestone: Half a Year in the Red | e21 - An initiative for 21st Century Economic Policies |
12-08-2009, 08:31 AM | #6806 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Would have been less biased if you'd posted the link and said something like "looks like a lot of different reasons why the HAMP program failed" or something, instead of trying to lay it all at the feet of government oversight.
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Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature. |
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12-08-2009, 08:34 AM | #6807 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Quote:
its the leadin combined, stop parsing.
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
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12-08-2009, 08:35 AM | #6808 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Quote:
YES!
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
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12-08-2009, 08:40 AM | #6809 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
I don't consider the various rejections of overfinanced or irresponsible mortgages holders as reasons the program failed. They were properly rejected. I consider the fail to be on two levels. 1. Any average idiot could have told this administration that there would be a high level of mortgages that could not be salvaged and did so when this legislation was passed, yet they chose not to listen. 2. They rejected a LOT of people who could have been helped. |
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12-08-2009, 08:43 AM | #6810 |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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...and will ignore the commentary about my obvious spin in the originating post so I can continue to do the same bullshit over and over again thus minimizing the validity or seriousness in which the information or stance I take on topics is looked at.
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
12-08-2009, 08:57 AM | #6811 | ||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
does not equal Quote:
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12-08-2009, 09:06 AM | #6812 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
point of fact - it wasn't the government who rejected them, it was the lenders
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Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature. |
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12-08-2009, 09:09 AM | #6813 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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We disagree 100%. The only part the government could control was the people who should have been taken care of under this bill. The main failure was the screw up of the administration to appropriately award help. As DT stated, the other problems fall on the mortgage holder and have nothing to do with what was done incorrectly. Those aren't a failure of the law. The failure was the parts that the government could have fixed, but failed to do so. |
12-08-2009, 09:09 AM | #6814 | ||
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
You mean like this? Quote:
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12-08-2009, 09:11 AM | #6815 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
And the lenders were working within the rules created by the administration/Congress in the bill. They didn't make up their own rules. Last edited by Mizzou B-ball fan : 12-08-2009 at 09:11 AM. |
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12-08-2009, 09:13 AM | #6816 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Main.....primary.....whatever you want to call it. It's a nice spin to try to say it's the mortgage holders fault for failing to pay or qualify, but as the article and the committee correctly cited, the failure was in the adminstration. They could have helped a lot of people but failed to do so. They screwed up the process to award help. |
12-08-2009, 09:22 AM | #6817 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2002
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Quote:
i've agreed with you that they screwed up their "formula" or whatever that was on the website that they apparently had people checking, and screwed it up by failing to communicate with the banks what that formula was and figure out to whom (or at what risk level) the banks were willing to lend. it's definately the fault of the mortgage holders though for failing to pay or failing to include all the required documents, or not signing all the right documents. And if that's 49/85 of the people who weren't approved there isn't any way that you can sit there and say that the primary/majority fault lies with the government. It's simply not statistically true. There's no way those people would have been successful no matter what the process was. You can't argue with the numbers. that being said, i'm certainly not letting the government off blame-free, and i don't want to come off like i am. they could have done a much better job in making sure the 36/85 that were rejected for other reasons were approved. but....just FYI...36 is less than 49. 36/85 is not MAJORITY. You'd need 43 to be majority. 49/85 on the other hand, is majority. it's definately the government's fault for not sitting all the lenders down in one room and saying "okay what level of risk could you live with?" and getting some sort of pre-approval of that. it's probably also the government's fault that it wasn't pushed out to enough people also, and didn't become more widespread.
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Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature. Last edited by DaddyTorgo : 12-08-2009 at 09:23 AM. |
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12-08-2009, 09:25 AM | #6818 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
I'm not arguing with the numbers. The '49' that you cite is NOT a failure. The policy worked in those cases. The failure is where the bill did not worked as advertised and the primary failure by a long shot was the screw-up that lead to many people being rejected when they should have been accepted. |
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12-08-2009, 09:29 AM | #6819 |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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the failure is your leadin.
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL Last edited by Flasch186 : 12-08-2009 at 09:29 AM. |
12-08-2009, 09:34 AM | #6820 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
well then take the 49 out of it and say. "Out of every 51 cases, 15 were a success and 36 were a failure." Problem is that even in those 36 cases it seems by the description that there are some where it was missing signatures or incomplete documentation, or whatever. We'd really have to see the raw data to judge with any effectiveness. That being said, I would agree with you that in those 36 cases the government has a (varying) degree of culpability for the failures (depending on the individual reasons) - not necessarily based on OVERSIGHT, but based on the fact that they fucked up by not sitting all the lenders down beforehand and saying "okay what level of risk are you going to take on with these negotiations" and getting everyone to agree to that via some horse-trading. Of course if they'd done that they'd probably be catching flack for whatever they traded away to get the program done I'm sure...right? I would have certainly liked for the program to have helped more people though. It's pretty embarassing at this point how few people it has helped given how much fanfare it was launched with (again though I think they also didn't really market it correctly to the general public - definately not enough applications to it).
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Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature. |
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12-08-2009, 12:58 PM | #6821 | ||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Massachusetts AG released their report on the ACORN video. On illegal activity:
Quote:
And then this new piece of information, Quote:
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12-08-2009, 12:59 PM | #6822 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Oooooh! See now that's really fucking interesting. Course the damage is done - I'm sure they won't be getting their funding back.
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Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature. |
12-08-2009, 01:02 PM | #6823 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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You are starting to get more and more of the left wing mad at Obama for not being Che Guevara.
I agree with these Andrew Sullivan readers who think that those leftists are out of their minds: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...-left-ctd.html |
12-08-2009, 01:35 PM | #6824 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cary, NC
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We've hit the point with technology where photo and/or video evidence needs to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt, a point we hit with written evidence a long time ago. Whether it's cutting out large portions that show WHY someone (like a cop) reacted the way they did thanks to all the baiting before hand, or adding bits for effect like the photos from the Israeli strikes on Lebanon that added lots of smoke, to changing the content entirely like these voiceovers, digital editing allows for some pretty good forgeries that the public will willingly believe and the news media seems to have no problem plastering all over the place without verification.
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12-08-2009, 01:43 PM | #6825 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Let's not get crazy here. While there might not be a pattern that the AG could establish, there have been incidents previous to these videos that called into question some of ACORN's tactics. If this was the first issue, their funding would have never been pulled by Congress. They were targeted because of previous incidents. This is not even close to the innocent lamb being led to the slaughter that you'd like to portray. Last edited by Mizzou B-ball fan : 12-08-2009 at 01:44 PM. |
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12-08-2009, 01:46 PM | #6826 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Quote:
spin-spin-spin!!! don't you ever fall over from spinning so fast?
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12-08-2009, 01:48 PM | #6827 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Agreed 100%. After all, out of the hundreds of ACORN offices nationwide, these documentarians only managed to find three where the staff misbehaved in a manner they could use for their video, and it turns out they actually had to doctor said video to make it suitably controversial. That's what you meant, right? |
12-08-2009, 01:49 PM | #6828 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Quote:
Who's spinning? ACORN has been in hot water several times before. Just because you agreed with what they were trying to do in previous incidents doesn't make it right. Last edited by Mizzou B-ball fan : 12-08-2009 at 01:52 PM. |
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12-08-2009, 01:52 PM | #6829 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
I personally don't agree with the tactics used, but ACORN has a questionable history even before these videos. This is far from the first time they've been brought under scrutiny. I know you're intelligent enough to know what I actually meant, so I won't take that any further. |
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12-08-2009, 02:04 PM | #6830 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Quote:
BS they lost the funding due to the public uproar and outcry drummed up by the video and its hitting on mainstream news repeatedly. Thus your congressman had to act to put out the fire and show that no matter the D or R they would act to reign in fraud. I hope that theyre just as fast in giving back the funding now that this has come out. Youre a spin doctor of the highest account. These last few pages for you have been golden in your drive to keep your credibility as low as possible.
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL Last edited by Flasch186 : 12-08-2009 at 02:06 PM. |
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12-08-2009, 02:07 PM | #6831 | |
General Manager
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Quote:
We disagree there. I hope they're smart enough to never give it back to ACORN or any other organization that abuses their position and funding. |
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12-08-2009, 02:11 PM | #6832 |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
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um, they didnt abuse it....except you'll disagree, and never ever admit to ever being wrong about anything. Im not sure why you discuss or debate.
the only abuse that occurred was using an AVID machine by those with an agenda...apparently.
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL Last edited by Flasch186 : 12-08-2009 at 02:13 PM. |
12-08-2009, 02:16 PM | #6833 |
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12-08-2009, 02:17 PM | #6834 |
Coordinator
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Except the damage done to the company was pretty devastating. Im not sure Moore has had such an effect but Im not sure and could be wrong...
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
12-08-2009, 03:29 PM | #6835 | |
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Quote:
Just a minor correction... this report was an internal report done by ACORN, headed up by former Massachusetts Attorney General Scott Harshbarger, not current Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley.
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I don't want the world. I just want your half. Last edited by CamEdwards : 12-08-2009 at 03:30 PM. |
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12-08-2009, 03:34 PM | #6836 | |
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Quote:
Thanks for the correction. I still don't feel too sorry for ACORN(although I have sympathy for those they were trying to help), but I'd sure like to see a public correction of what happened. I'd also love it if the douchebags who did this got hammered as hard as they were praised by some on the right.
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12-08-2009, 03:34 PM | #6837 |
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that's extremely important....seriously. I dont think that that is a minor correction.
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL Last edited by Flasch186 : 12-08-2009 at 03:35 PM. |
12-08-2009, 03:36 PM | #6838 |
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good point by Cam - i'd forgotten about that
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12-08-2009, 03:45 PM | #6839 | |
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Jesus H. Christ Senators are stupid.
Quote:
Does that mean we can just forget about the entire deficit if we call war bonds?
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12-08-2009, 03:46 PM | #6840 |
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i'm not buying any
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12-08-2009, 03:58 PM | #6841 |
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ACORN deserved to lose it's funding. I'm sure the videos were doctored in some ways to spin the truth, but there are a lot of other incidents. I know it may be small in the grand scheme of things, but there should be a zero tolerance policy when it comes to our tax dollars funding organizations like this.
I still find the fervor over ACORN funny though. They are really a small piece of the pie. If you want to tackle contractor abuse, why not look into the military ones? They are paid much more and have commited murder as well as protected and allowed rapists to roam free. That tops some dopes telling a prostitute how to make hide money. I guess what I'm saying is that if you're going to go after abuse of tax dollars by contracted groups/companies, there are much bigger fish to fry. |
12-08-2009, 04:09 PM | #6842 |
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12-08-2009, 04:12 PM | #6843 | |
General Manager
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Quote:
Has someone said that they shouldn't go after those contractors? I've posted multiple links to Blackwater investigations. You're acting like someone is opposed to exposing corruption? Which posters specifically have said that only the ACORN corruption should be outed rather than all corruption? |
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12-08-2009, 04:12 PM | #6844 |
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12-08-2009, 04:34 PM | #6845 | |
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Quote:
I know the ACORN is the conservative rallying cry these days. Just find it hypocritical they spend countless hours on a tiny organization while being too pussy to mention how many billions have been stolen or wasted by contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan. That some people giving advice on tax evasion are worse than murderers and rapists. |
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12-08-2009, 04:35 PM | #6846 |
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12-08-2009, 04:40 PM | #6847 |
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12-08-2009, 04:42 PM | #6848 |
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Go to any conservative site and run a search on ACORN and then one on Blackwater. Tell me what you find.
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12-08-2009, 04:48 PM | #6849 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Quote:
Go to any liberal site and run a search on Blackwater and then one on ACORN. Tell me what you find. What's your point? Are we only considering corruption now based on who exposes it? Your dodge of my question is very telling. |
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12-08-2009, 04:49 PM | #6850 |
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