2012-13 NBA Regular Season Thread, Feel the Heat

[murrayyyyy]

I'm iffy on Bosh being an all-star. Also when did the shooting guard position die? Only 3 on both rosters combined.

[nol]

I don't think the shooting guard position has really died. It's more that Jordan and Kobe are relative outliers and have kind of propped up the position for the last 20+ years. Here's a list of all the SGs besides those two who have been First Team All-NBA since 1984-85 (Jordan's rookie year): Drexler, Sprewell (on 17.5 points/36 minutes and 43% shooting!), Iverson, T-Mac, and Wade. Outside of those, Mitch Richmond, Ray Allen, and maybe Vince Carter for a couple of years are the next-best ones I can think of.

I think the quality of shooting guards in the league today isn't much better or worse than it has been for a while. I think that as the league has changed, teams have realized that if you don't have a stud SG, you're better off playing someone who can space the floor and play defense than running an isolation-heavy offense just so someone like Ricky Davis or Larry Hughes can score their 20+ PPG. Here's an article I read last week that goes a bit deeper into some of the reasons for this: Where have all the gunners gone? - TrueHoop Blog - ESPN

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by nol

I think the quality of shooting guards in the league today isn't much better or worse than it has been for a while. I think that as the league has changed, teams have realized that if you don't have a stud SG, you're better off playing someone who can space the floor and play defense than running an isolation-heavy offense just so someone like Ricky Davis or Larry Hughes can score their 20+ PPG. Here's an article I read last week that goes a bit deeper into some of the reasons for this: Where have all the gunners gone? - TrueHoop Blog - ESPN

It's a shame Toronto didn't read that article before extending DeRozan.

[korme]

Originally Posted by nol

I don't think the shooting guard position has really died. It's more that Jordan and Kobe are relative outliers and have kind of propped up the position for the last 20+ years. Here's a list of all the SGs besides those two who have been First Team All-NBA since 1984-85 (Jordan's rookie year): Drexler, Sprewell (on 17.5 points/36 minutes and 43% shooting!), Iverson, T-Mac, and Wade. Outside of those, Mitch Richmond, Ray Allen, and maybe Vince Carter for a couple of years are the next-best ones I can think of.

I think the quality of shooting guards in the league today isn't much better or worse than it has been for a while. I think that as the league has changed, teams have realized that if you don't have a stud SG, you're better off playing someone who can space the floor and play defense than running an isolation-heavy offense just so someone like Ricky Davis or Larry Hughes can score their 20+ PPG. Here's an article I read last week that goes a bit deeper into some of the reasons for this: Where have all the gunners gone? - TrueHoop Blog - ESPN

Reg Miller was pretty good. Dumars, Petrovic. But yeah, you're right. I guess our minds get skewed because 2 of the arguably 5 greatest players were both SG and in recent memory, so we automatically associate 2guards with greatness

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by korme

Reg Miller was pretty good. Dumars, Petrovic. But yeah, you're right. I guess our minds get skewed because 2 of the arguably 5 greatest players were both SG and in recent memory, so we automatically associate 2guards with greatness

It's that or the 1 has become more than a pass first guy. I think the problem is that the NBA got rid of the center position from NBA All-star voting which basically makes everyone think that centers don't exist anymore. Then you look at the all-star rosters and there are more centers than shooting guards.

And not to start "that" debate but LeBron is 600 assists behind Jordan in career numbers. Is it possible LeBron ends up breaking 10k in assists for his career? (5034 now at 28 years old)

[nol]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

And not to start "that" debate but LeBron is 600 assists behind Jordan in career numbers. Is it possible LeBron ends up breaking 10k in assists for his career? (5034 now at 28 years old)

That's an interesting question, because you'd have to think that at 10 years in, LeBron is at about his halfway point in games played. With that being said, it's pretty much a question of whether you think he'll stay on the same pace for the next 10 years. If you asked me back when he was in Cleveland, I'd have said yes because their entire offense was reliant on LeBron facilitating out of isolation sets.

Now that he's bought into being more efficient by operating closer to the basket, his assists per game will probably drop a little bit from his previous standard, just by virtue of playing more of a PF role in the offense. I think we'll keep seeing improvement in the post each year from LeBron because he realizes that he'll need to increasingly rely on that if he wants to have the same impact once he begins to lose athleticism.

The other wild card, of course, is injuries. However, LeBron seems to be enough of a physical freak that you can't attribute the fact that he's been able to avoid major injuries to simply luck. I forget which game it was this year, but a pretty big guy fell on LeBron's ankle and seemingly rolled it pretty badly, but Bron was able to shake it off rather quickly. So, I wouldn't necessarily bet on him getting 10,000 assists, but it probably depends on how long he actually ends up playing.

[Groundhog]

Kyrie Irving is just amazing to watch. Another game winner tonight, and 12 points in the 4th quarter on some just straightout amazing moves. Tristan Thompson has started to look worthy of his draft position too these past six or so weeks.

The injection of talent we got from the Griz is going to hurt our draft position, but I don't care really, just happy to see some entertaining basketball.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

That's an interesting question, because you'd have to think that at 10 years in, LeBron is at about his halfway point in games played. With that being said, it's pretty much a question of whether you think he'll stay on the same pace for the next 10 years. If you asked me back when he was in Cleveland, I'd have said yes because their entire offense was reliant on LeBron facilitating out of isolation sets.

Now that he's bought into being more efficient by operating closer to the basket, his assists per game will probably drop a little bit from his previous standard, just by virtue of playing more of a PF role in the offense. I think we'll keep seeing improvement in the post each year from LeBron because he realizes that he'll need to increasingly rely on that if he wants to have the same impact once he begins to lose athleticism.

The other wild card, of course, is injuries. However, LeBron seems to be enough of a physical freak that you can't attribute the fact that he's been able to avoid major injuries to simply luck. I forget which game it was this year, but a pretty big guy fell on LeBron's ankle and seemingly rolled it pretty badly, but Bron was able to shake it off rather quickly. So, I wouldn't necessarily bet on him getting 10,000 assists, but it probably depends on how long he actually ends up playing.

Will he play that long? I see him retiring at 35. If he can put up the same numbers over the next 10 years he will be over 40k in points and 10k in assists. There are only 7 active players ahead of him in career points at 28. Even more amazing to me is only 10 more ahead of him in career assists on the active list(Baron Davis, Chauncy Billups and Mike Bibby are still listed as active ahead of him). So in reality 7 active ahead of him there also.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Kyrie Irving is just amazing to watch. Another game winner tonight, and 12 points in the 4th quarter on some just straightout amazing moves. Tristan Thompson has started to look worthy of his draft position too these past six or so weeks.

The injection of talent we got from the Griz is going to hurt our draft position, but I don't care really, just happy to see some entertaining basketball.

Tristan was so raw at Findlay Prep but he was just too big for the kids in Vegas. I think with Irving he has a chance to improve. Some PGs wouldn't be able to get him the ball.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Will he play that long? I see him retiring at 35. If he can put up the same numbers over the next 10 years he will be over 40k in points and 10k in assists. There are only 7 active players ahead of him in career points at 28. Even more amazing to me is only 10 more ahead of him in career assists on the active list(Baron Davis, Chauncy Billups and Mike Bibby are still listed as active ahead of him). So in reality 7 active ahead of him there also.

I think Lebron has the type of game that can play to a late age. Maybe in his mid-30's he can't dominate a game for 40 minutes, but he can be a Scottie Pippen type who gives you a little of everything. I could see him settling into an 18 point, 8 assist guy every night late in his career.

Plus medical technology continues to improve and with things like HGH, he can keep playing at a high level for awhile.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I'm iffy on Bosh being an all-star. Also when did the shooting guard position die? Only 3 on both rosters combined.

He's really not. Brook Lopez should have made it over him. Nothing against Bosh, but he really can just sit and take wide open mid-range jumpers every night. He isn't defending or hitting the glass. Really become a one dimensional player who is in because of reputation.

I feel bad for Curry but not sure who I'd take off the West reserves for him. More a matter of Dwight not deserving to be on the team this year but getting voted in by the fans. Can say the same about KG in the East.

[stevew]

We really need that Bullets announcer that did the double dagger call the other day.

[stevew]

reminds me of the lin game winner vs the raps.

[Young Drachma]

Lin's was better because the Raptors crowd was cheering for him. But no doubt Irving had ice in his veins in that one.

[stevew]

I heard something funny the other day that the Cavs had Jeremy Pargo highlighted on the in game program the other night, but they had to cut him earlier in the day. So nobody got that program, lol.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He's really not. Brook Lopez should have made it over him. Nothing against Bosh, but he really can just sit and take wide open mid-range jumpers every night. He isn't defending or hitting the glass. Really become a one dimensional player who is in because of reputation.

I feel bad for Curry but not sure who I'd take off the West reserves for him. More a matter of Dwight not deserving to be on the team this year but getting voted in by the fans. Can say the same about KG in the East.

I think KG deserved it (more so than Rondo at least). His offensive game has slipped/he's definitely not very assertive on that end anymore, but I think even Celtics fans still underestimate his enormous impact on the defensive end.

[whomario]

yeah, Garnett is amazing defensively still.

As for Curry, his main competition is Tony Parker who is averaging as good or better numbers (20/7.5 in under 33 mpg while shooting 53%) and his team has the better record.

As for players playing on a near-Allstar-level : Nicolas Batum had another Triple Double, is averaging 18/7/6 in January.
Pretty amazing for a guy who´s best seasonal assist number was 1.5 APG and who had exactly 6 games with 5 or more assists in his career prior to this season.

Still a couple too many TOs (but a 2/1 A/TO split isn´t horrible) but his shooting has picked up again and i think he´ll only get more comfortable in the role.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He's really not. Brook Lopez should have made it over him. Nothing against Bosh, but he really can just sit and take wide open mid-range jumpers every night. He isn't defending or hitting the glass. Really become a one dimensional player who is in because of reputation.

I feel bad for Curry but not sure who I'd take off the West reserves for him. More a matter of Dwight not deserving to be on the team this year but getting voted in by the fans. Can say the same about KG in the East.

Getting Curry on the team is easy. Duncan doesn't belong. It's an allstar game an no one play defense. Plus Z-Bo, Lee and Aldridge can play the post when D isn't involved.

The East roster is horrible. A lot of 17-7 guys. I'm not sure I would pay any amount of money to watch Paul George and Loul Deng in a front court for any team.

[murrayyyyy]

When was the last time that two teams below .500 has 2 starters on the East and West all-star teams? (Celtics and Lakers) Why isn't anyone complaining about the fans voting in this sport?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Getting Curry on the team is easy. Duncan doesn't belong. It's an allstar game an no one play defense. Plus Z-Bo, Lee and Aldridge can play the post when D isn't involved.

The East roster is horrible. A lot of 17-7 guys. I'm not sure I would pay any amount of money to watch Paul George and Loul Deng in a front court for any team.

Duncan is having his best season in years. He is first in the NBA in defensive rating and 5th in the NBA in offensive efficiency. Would seem strange to punish him for them kind of numbers.

Take off David Lee who doesnt play any defense and you have your answer to the Curry question.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I think KG deserved it (more so than Rondo at least). His offensive game has slipped/he's definitely not very assertive on that end anymore, but I think even Celtics fans still underestimate his enormous impact on the defensive end.

Rondo leads the NBA is assists by a large margin right now. I'm fine with him starting in the all-star game. Anyone could start over KG in the east. There are more 17-7 guys with a better defensive efficiency this year than him.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Duncan is having his best season in years. He is first in the NBA in defensive rating and 5th in the NBA in offensive efficiency. Would seem strange to punish him for them kind of numbers.

Take off David Lee who doesnt play any defense and you have your answer to the Curry question.

I swear I've watched 10 Spurs games this year and did not know he has blocked that many shots this year.

It has to be a big leaving because the guards are all playing better than Curry this year. Guess it sucks being the 6th best guard in the West.

[nol]

Well, regardless of the outcome of today's game, the Celtics will have to get through the rest of this season without Rondo, who's out for the season with a torn ACL. Is this the end of the their Big 3 era?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm not exactly a big Rondo fan or anything, but that injury sucks. The dude has been ballin' like a mutha all year (I guess for more than a year now).

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Rondo leads the NBA is assists by a large margin right now. I'm fine with him starting in the all-star game. Anyone could start over KG in the east. There are more 17-7 guys with a better defensive efficiency this year than him.

I'm curious what defensive stats you're looking at - even on straight defensive efficiency the Celtics are well above average with KG on the floor, and once you consider how bad all of our other bigs are it's that much more impressive. fwiw the Celtics are 10 points better defensively per 100 possessions with KG on the floor - that's an imperfect stat (just look at Noah grading out as a below-average defender last year because he was usually paired with Boozer while Taj Gibson and Omer Asik played together often as the Bulls 2nd unit), and the Bulls are 6 points better with Noah out there this year, but the Knicks are actually 4 points worse with Chandler on the floor (probably partly due to him usually being paired with Carmelo as the 4 and tasked with covering for him on defense) and the Heat 2 points worse with Bosh (who should definitely not be an all-star).

And for the record, we've actually had a better +/- with Rondo off the court than on, largely due to his lackadaisical nature on defense, but also due to his tendency at times to pass up very very good shots to try and get an assist. He's certainly a unique and fun player to watch, and we'll see if those numbers hold up during a longer-term absence, but Rondo is mercurial and enigmatic to say the least, and too often this season he wasn't playing his best.

[whomario]

Lakers beat the Thunder, Bryant with his 14 assist for the 2nd game in a row.
Incidentily, the Lakers are 1-13 when he has 3 or less assists and he averages 7 in wins and 4 in losses.
They are also 0-9 in his 9 35+ pt games this season.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I'm curious what defensive stats you're looking at - even on straight defensive efficiency the Celtics are well above average with KG on the floor, and once you consider how bad all of our other bigs are it's that much more impressive. fwiw the Celtics are 10 points better defensively per 100 possessions with KG on the floor - that's an imperfect stat (just look at Noah grading out as a below-average defender last year because he was usually paired with Boozer while Taj Gibson and Omer Asik played together often as the Bulls 2nd unit), and the Bulls are 6 points better with Noah out there this year, but the Knicks are actually 4 points worse with Chandler on the floor (probably partly due to him usually being paired with Carmelo as the 4 and tasked with covering for him on defense) and the Heat 2 points worse with Bosh (who should definitely not be an all-star).

And for the record, we've actually had a better +/- with Rondo off the court than on, largely due to his lackadaisical nature on defense, but also due to his tendency at times to pass up very very good shots to try and get an assist. He's certainly a unique and fun player to watch, and we'll see if those numbers hold up during a longer-term absence, but Rondo is mercurial and enigmatic to say the least, and too often this season he wasn't playing his best.

Just looking at the defensive rating numbers by Dean Oliver. 2012-13 NBA Leaders | Basketball-Reference.com (near the bottom of the page). I think someone else referenced it when talking about Duncan as the NBA's best defender.

I hate defense rating because if you look at the Celtics they are 7th in DRtg with 103.2 so everyone claims, we play great defense... but they can't score to save their lives. 101.7 ORtg for 28th in the NBA beating Indiana and Washington. The reason they can't win a game is because no one on the roster wants to get an offensive rebound or bang down low including KG.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by nol

Well, regardless of the outcome of today's game, the Celtics will have to get through the rest of this season without Rondo, who's out for the season with a torn ACL. Is this the end of the their Big 3 era?

There may be a bit of Ewing theory potential here. The Celtics are much better on defense without Rondo in the lineup [albeit a small sample size] and they still need to get a smaller rotation down. They are equipped as well as they could be to absorb the loss. Losing a big man would be a lot worse. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Just looking at the defensive rating numbers by Dean Oliver. 2012-13 NBA Leaders | Basketball-Reference.com (near the bottom of the page). I think someone else referenced it when talking about Duncan as the NBA's best defender.

I hate defense rating because if you look at the Celtics they are 7th in DRtg with 103.2 so everyone claims, we play great defense... but they can't score to save their lives. 101.7 ORtg for 28th in the NBA beating Indiana and Washington. The reason they can't win a game is because no one on the roster wants to get an offensive rebound or bang down low including KG.

Those are perfect examples of why you need to marry stats with context and watching the games. Carlos Boozer is in the top 10 defenders according to DRtg, and I think we can all agree that's almost entirely due to the players and system around him. The Celtics O-Rebounding %'s are terrible (outside of Sullinger), but that's down to scheme (i.e. we emphasize everyone other than the 2nd big next to KG getting back and preventing transition opportunities - or 3 of them getting back and Avery Bradley running a one-man full-court harassment to slow them bringing the ball up) more than individual ability. That's been the m.o. ever since KG and Thibodeau got here, and its worked pretty well.

Brandon Bass is one of the worst rebounding and defending bigs in the league, and while Sullinger is great at rebounding he is still inexperienced and struggles with fouls (and taking him off the 2nd unit would mean they have no one who can rebound). It's why Doc got so pissed he tried running with cast-offs like Chris Wilcox and Jason Collins to get a competent defensive big next to KG, but then Wilcox got injured and Jason Collins proved to be Jason Collins on the offensive end.

I'll also bet that the Celtics (and Garnett's) DRtg gets better with Rondo out. Losing Rondo might hurt our playoff ceiling, but he's been a poor team defender for years in the regular season, between constantly switching too early and his focus on picking up steals that rivals his focus on upping his assist numbers on offense even when it's detrimental to the team. Overall, if you want the All-Star game to reflect the players with the best stats, then Rondo is the better player... if you want it to reflect the best players in the league based off helping their team score more than their opponents when they're on the floor, it's Garnett even with his minutes needing to be managed like Tim Duncan's. (And ftr, I'd have no problem with Noah or Chandler starting over him... but saying that Bosh, Deng, George, or anyone not on that roster is deserving of the start is laughable.)

We'll see though - including last night, they've got a 9 game stretch until the ASB before any trades are likely. If I'm right, they'll go over .500 and make some noise vs. the 2 LA teams, Denver and the Bulls. If I'm wrong, then a Pierce and even Garnett trades become much more likely before the Feb. 21 deadline.

[DaddyTorgo]

Garnett has a NTC. And I don't think Ainge would deal Pierce when he's basically on his extended farewell-tour (and also has been playing poorly and would only yield pennies on the dollar).

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Garnett has a NTC. And I don't think Ainge would deal Pierce when he's basically on his extended farewell-tour (and also has been playing poorly and would only yield pennies on the dollar).

I agree. But IF the Celtics go like 1-7 before the ASB and show no hope of gutting out a deep playoff run after being written off again, which I think is extremely unlikely considering we've beaten New York and Miami without Rondo in the last 3 weeks, then suddenly dealing Pierce for whatever they can get can be justified under the Ray Bourque "let the icon chase a title elsewhere because we have no chance" clause, and KG might re-consider that NTC for the right situation - like re-uniting with Perkins in OKC.

Barring that, I'll never say never with Ainge, but I definitely think the national media is wrong with their thinking that Rondo's injury means the rebuild needs to start now, and the Celtics should automatically trade Pierce/KG if they can.

(Anyone else on the roster except Bradley or Sullinger, go ahead. I understand the thinking that led to all 3 deals, but Bass, Green, Terry are all on bad contracts where the other team would be doing us a favor, and while I wouldn't put Courtney Lee's deal in that category, he's expendable at his figure - although I reserve the right to change my mind on him as he gets more PT the next 3 months.)

[stevew]

I was just casually watching the end of the overtime yesterday and I saw Rondo in street clothes sitting on the bench. I had no idea what was up with the ACL, I just figured he was suspended for the game for punching someone or some other Rondo type behavior.

[Groundhog]

I just don't see the Celtics trading Pierce. He's one of those guys that I hope retires having only ever played for Boston.

[nol]

Yeah, I don't doubt that the C's could still grind their way to the playoffs, but that's kind of the problem. Until KG and Pierce retire, they are going to be able to manufacture enough wins to make it to the playoffs. I think the Rondo injury marks a major fork in the road for them. The Celtics will need things to break their way to even be a second-round playoff team this year, and there's no trade they can make that improves their short-term prospects.

It's tough because the Celtics will always play with such intensity during the playoffs that you're inevitably going to get sucked in and want to see them go down with guns blazing. From a fan's perspective, they've earned that right, but from Ainge's perspective, that means resigning yourself to playing .500 ball for the next few years before attempting to start over with an older Rondo (to say nothing of how the ACL tear will affect him coming back) and a hodgepodge of late first-rounders. If he's looking to get any kind of head start at rebuilding the Celtics, this injury's as good an excuse as he's going to get.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I just don't see the Celtics trading Pierce. He's one of those guys that I hope retires having only ever played for Boston.

Doc may be sentimental, but Ainge is not

[korme]

Don't care about KG, but completely agree with Groundhog.

[korme]

Scott Carefoot just tweeted that Lance Stephenson's younger brother's name is.... Lantz

[Groundhog]

Bogut returned for the Warriors tonight and had a decent game, 12pts 8rebs 4blks. The rich just got richer.

[nol]

Originally Posted by korme

Scott Carefoot just tweeted that Lance Stephenson's younger brother's name is.... Lantz

That's almost as good as Allen Iverson's younger brother being named Mister Allen Iverson.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Bogut returned for the Warriors tonight and had a decent game, 12pts 8rebs 4blks. The rich just got richer.

didn´t Curry sparin his ankle though, right on cue so to speak if you are a glass-half-empty Warriors Fan ?

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Doc may be sentimental, but Ainge is not

What former Celtics are GMs and will lay down while Angie rapes them in a trade this time?

[stevew]

Talk of Oden signing soon. The Cavs are in the position where it's totally worth tying up 5m/year for 3 years on him and praying that he can regain health enough to play 20 minutes a game. I still feel like there's considerable upside there.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by whomario

didn´t Curry sparin his ankle though, right on cue so to speak if you are a glass-half-empty Warriors Fan ?

lol I didn't realise that. Warriors can't catch a break, although sounds like he was held out as a precaution.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

Talk of Oden signing soon. The Cavs are in the position where it's totally worth tying up 5m/year for 3 years on him and praying that he can regain health enough to play 20 minutes a game. I still feel like there's considerable upside there.

I think a 5m/2 would be a better risk, maybe with the 3rd a team option. Definitely worth the risk, despite the slim chance of it paying off.

[Matthean]

You Can Now Purchase Classic NBA Games On iTunes

[murrayyyyy]

Well looks like the Rudy Gay trade is done. Being a Grizzlies fan, I can't say I'll miss him. Don't get me wrong, he's a good player but he wasn't worth his contract(not that anyone is).

Gay + Hadaddi to Toronto for Ed David and Calderon, Calderon to Detroit to Prince and Daye.

[bhlloy]

That's a lot of tall skinny guys Memphis just picked up. Must be trying to save money on the buffet line

[Groundhog]

Raptors have a whole lot of money invested in two wing players who can't shoot from 3. Combined with no inside scoring, this is a mid-range/slashing team now who are going to be facing some tight defenses...

While the Grizz are clearly cutting salaries, I reckon the Cavs trade hurts them more than this one did in the short term.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Raptors have a whole lot of money invested in two wing players who can't shoot from 3. Combined with no inside scoring, this is a mid-range/slashing team now who are going to be facing some tight defenses...

Not to mention no ball movement, less playing time for Terrence Ross going forward, and no cap room until 2015-16. Since they extended DeRozan already, they're going to have about $60M/year committed just to him, Gay, Bargnani, and Landry Fields. Good luck getting anything for Bargnani considering that the Raptors were 4-16 before he got injured and have gone 12-11 since.

I might actually like this trade best for the Pistons. If Calderon can take Kyle Lowry's starting spot, he can definitely take Brandon Knight's. Either way, it'll help the Pistons see where Knight fits in with their future plans. They basically got Calderon's $10M expiring contract for Prince's 3 year, $21M contract. I think giving up Daye (who's nothing special) is an acceptable price for Detroit to pay, plus it's probably a better situation for both Detroit and Tayshaun going forward to get Prince on a playoff contender. On paper, this looks pretty nice, but you never know what Joe Dumars is going to do with $10M in cap room.

As for Memphis, they were able to unload Gay's deal without harming themselves too much in the short term either. Ed Davis has been playing really well as of late, and Prince is a better shooter and defender than Gay at this point. Even if you don't think this makes the Grizzlies a better team, they'd pretty much have to start playing like the Bobcats to miss the playoffs at this point. Regardless of their seeding, they'll still be a tough matchup this postseason even without Gay (just ask the Spurs).

[whomario]

Grizz still don´t pick up a shooter. Should have just hung on to Calderon here imo ...