Soccer Thread 2009-10

[sovereignstar]

I know that very few care about City right now (hello, homerism), but David Conn of The Guardian has concluded a great 4-part series of Manchester City.

Their site is a bit of a clusterf*ck, but a football fan can mange to find what they need if they're really interested.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/davidconn

[Big Fo]

Germany won 3-0. The US was very sloppy in the final third and only got off a couple shots, one of them a sweet long range strike that hit the crossbar. Possession was even overall but that's partially because Germany sat back in the second half 2-0 up. The US will have to do a lot better against South Korea and Cameroon.

Man Utd move to the top of the table winning 2-0 at Stoke while Wigan beat Chelsea 3-1. Ryan Giggs now has five assists in the last two games, what a legend.

[whomario]

saw the Germany-USA game just now here on TV.
Considering all teams have that issue a question : Was that more or less the strongest squad for the US ?

To illustrate the point about the terrible schedule for this tournament : Germany had 27 eligible players held back by their clubs because the season is well under way. There´s only 5 or 6 guys there that would have been there had the tournament been scheduled in July/August like usual... (was pushed back because of the heat in egypt)
It´s so bad that they made the trip with only 18 players with 3 players on call in Germany where the clubs said "he stays here, if you get a slew of injuries he can come after"
It´s similar with the other european teams there (spain, england, italy, czech republic)

Big opportunity for the smaller countries though, am curious if any can make a surprising push.

[Big Fo]

Yeah they should have held it in the summer or something. Altidore and Adu are young enough to play in it but US Soccer wants them to get games at club level, I don't know how many others that is the case for. A lot our guys aren't pros yet and are still playing college soccer.

[law90026]

Whew, close win for Arsenal today.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by whomario

saw the Germany-USA game just now here on TV.
Considering all teams have that issue a question : Was that more or less the strongest squad for the US ?

To illustrate the point about the terrible schedule for this tournament : Germany had 27 eligible players held back by their clubs because the season is well under way. There´s only 5 or 6 guys there that would have been there had the tournament been scheduled in July/August like usual... (was pushed back because of the heat in egypt)
It´s so bad that they made the trip with only 18 players with 3 players on call in Germany where the clubs said "he stays here, if you get a slew of injuries he can come after"
It´s similar with the other european teams there (spain, england, italy, czech republic)

Big opportunity for the smaller countries though, am curious if any can make a surprising push.

Adu and Altidore should be on that squad

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Adu and Altidore should be on that squad

Adu is desperate to get playing time at his club, it makes no sense to pull him away. Altidore is just cracking Hull's starting line-up, so to pull him away is pointless as well. Besides, you know what your getting with those two. Id much rather play a Brek Shea or Diskerud and see what they have. We may lose, but its better for the future of the national team.

[MrBug708]

It was an answer to the question of "Did the US send its best squad?" ")

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

It was an answer to the question of "Did the US send its best squad?" ")

I assumed since Big Fo had already answered that question 2 posts prior, you were commenting on the loss.

[whomario]

Yeah, should have thought about those 2 myself. I guess both and especially Adu have "been around" for so long i didn´t associate them as being under 20 anymore .

btw and totally unrelated : Kenny Cooper is a cool guy Plays for 1860 munich now and fans love him.

[Big Fo]

I take back some of my earlier praise for ESPN. They didn't come back from commercials until 2:30 into the second half, missing a goal which put the US 2-0 up over Cameroon. They're playing significantly better than they did against Germany.

whomario: On 1860 Munich's website I see Cooper has 2 goals in 7 matches, is he doing well in other areas like build-up play? Or is it more that the fans like his personality?

[Big Fo]

USA wins 4-1, they played pretty well. Duka scored off a cross from the touchline then put on a decent acting job as if he meant to score from there. Ownby added a breakaway goal in injury time.

Standings:

Germany - 4 (+3)
USA - 3 (0)
Cameroon - 3 (-1)
South Korea - 1 (-2)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by whomario

saw the Germany-USA game just now here on TV.
Considering all teams have that issue a question : Was that more or less the strongest squad for the US ?

FWIW, in addition to Adu and Altidore there were injuries at fullback and some odd choices by Rongen the 1st game. Ownby and Powers hadn't been starters while Dilly Duka in particular was the best US player in qualifiers (and now against Cameroon). Bryan Arguez (from Hertha Berlin) and Peri Marosevic were two other players who impressed in earlier games and didn't start vs. Germany. One of the/our most impressive fullback, Sheanon Williams (who I've played with in pickup games - although he was a forward back then) is back now and put in another good performance today.

Overall yes, this looks like a weaker age group than the current U-17's or previous U-20's, although really the goal is for the NT to get 3-4 WC quality players from a cycle, and if you count Adu/Altidore, assume one of Opara/Williams/Duka/etc keeps developing and/or someone like Charlie Davies, Clint Dempsey or Marcus Tracy from past cycles blooms "late" and seemingly comes from nowhere we're well on our way to it being an acceptable cycle.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

FWIW, in addition to Adu and Altidore there were injuries at fullback and some odd choices by Rongen the 1st game. Ownby and Powers hadn't been starters while Dilly Duka in particular was the best US player in qualifiers (and now against Cameroon). Bryan Arguez (from Hertha Berlin) and Peri Marosevic were two other players who impressed in earlier games and didn't start vs. Germany. One of the/our most impressive fullback, Sheanon Williams (who I've played with in pickup games - although he was a forward back then) is back now and put in another good performance today.

Overall yes, this looks like a weaker age group than the current U-17's or previous U-20's, although really the goal is for the NT to get 3-4 WC quality players from a cycle, and if you count Adu/Altidore, assume one of Opara/Williams/Duka/etc keeps developing and/or someone like Charlie Davies, Clint Dempsey or Marcus Tracy from past cycles blooms "late" and seemingly comes from nowhere we're well on our way to it being an acceptable cycle.

I really like Marcus Tracy, I hope he continues to do well in Scandinavia

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

whomario: On 1860 Munich's website I see Cooper has 2 goals in 7 matches, is he doing well in other areas like build-up play? Or is it more that the fans like his personality?

honestly more than anything it´s the way he plays. Plays with a lot of power, very straight forward and refreshing in that he doesn´t shy away from contact. Great guy apparently as well from what a friend told me who is working for the club.
Haven´t seen a full game the last couple weeks, so just judging off of reports here but he´s definitely a popular figure with the fans.

Actually saw the USA-Cameroon game earlier today, pretty good match. Absolutely no tactical skills by cameroon and very early in panic mode. The US could have scored 7,8 easily had they played their counter attacks more decicive.

Anyone saw Ghana win against England ? They absolutely dismantled England, fabolous display (although it should be said that england lost 4 players to a stomach virus the day before the match, maybe affected others as well). Ayew with a magnificent goal, dribbling from the right to the inside then strike it with great power from 20 metres out just into the uper corner.

the Pitches are terrible btw, very "slow", ball stopping a lot.

FIFA homepage has free highlights for every game btw : FIFA.com - Fédération Internationale de Football Association (FIFA)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by whomario

Anyone saw Ghana win against England ? They absolutely dismantled England, fabolous display (although it should be said that england lost 4 players to a stomach virus the day before the match, maybe affected others as well). Ayew with a magnificent goal, dribbling from the right to the inside then strike it with great power from 20 metres out just into the upper corner.

There's also always the issue with African youth teams and overage players. I think it was the African U-17 tournament where every team but one was playing with overage guys.

[whomario]

what´s the policy on spoilers for champions league gamedays with the different time zone to the us ?

Anyway :



goal of the day (lets see how long the video stays online ... )

[Blade6119]

Sick little move, good find!

From Tuesday's matches, and while he was offside, the goal stood:

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by whomario

what´s the policy on spoilers for champions league gamedays with the different time zone to the us ?

Feel free to discuss the games as they happen live. Anyone taping matches who wants to watch later on can easily avoid spoilers by not clicking on soccer related threads and websites.

Sick goal from Tihinen. I wonder how long Leonardo is going to last at Milan...

Carrick's game winner today wasn't that extravagant but was still nice, a side-footer into the upper corner from outside the box. Giggs with another goal and assist, what a hero.

And it's nice to hear that Cooper is doing well at 1860.

[DaddyTorgo]

nice to hear Juve got a draw up at AA against Bayern. I'd like to see them win that match, but realistically a draw is fine.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

nice to hear Juve got a draw up at AA against Bayern. I'd like to see them win that match, but realistically a draw is fine.

i'd take a draw with bayern than a draw with rubin

[whomario]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

nice to hear Juve got a draw up at AA against Bayern. I'd like to see them win that match, but realistically a draw is fine.

Can thank Buffon and Ribery´s playfullness for that (overall Bayern´s reluctance to get the ball to the box in time) , Bayern was the better team by all acounts and should have scored 2,3 goals.
Ribery had the best move of the game, going straight through 2 defenders at the edge of the box but then trying to lob Buffon from about 8 metres ... Even Buffon was laughing/smirking afterwards at that much "exuberance"

Plus the referee pulled a PES, whistling for the end right into a Bayern counter attack that looked very promising ...

Robben apparently with a bad knee injury, 25 mio and any chance at a great season down the crapper ...

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by whomario

Robben apparently with a bad knee injury, 25 mio and any chance at a great season down the crapper ...

He's three to four weeks out, according to Dutch media. But with Robben's usual injury luck, I'm afraid he can be writen off until Christmas.

[Big Fo]

Speaking of Cooper he's made the US squad to face Honduras and Costa Rica for the first time since the Gold Cup.

GOALKEEPERS (2): Brad Guzan (Aston Villa: 5/3 SO), Tim Howard (Everton: 14/8 SO)

DEFENDERS (7): Carlos Bocanegra (Rennes: 24/3), Jonathan Bornstein (Chivas USA, 4/0), Steve Cherundolo (Hannover: 19/0), Jimmy Conrad (Kansas City Wizards: 1/0), Clarence Goodson (IK Start: 1/0), Oguchi Onyewu (AC Milan: 18/1), Jonathan Spector (West Ham: 3/0)

MIDFIELDERS (7): Michael Bradley (Borussia Mönchengladbach: 13/4), Ricardo Clark (Houston Dynamo: 7/1), Clint Dempsey (Fulham: 20/5), Benny Feilhaber (AGF Aarhus: 4/0), Stuart Holden (Houston Dynamo: 3/0), Robbie Rogers (Columbus Crew: 0/0), José Francisco Torres (Pachuca: 6/0)

FORWARDS (6): Jozy Altidore (Hull City: 11/6), Conor Casey (Colorado Rapids: 5/0), Brian Ching (Houston Dynamo: 16/6), Kenny Cooper (1860 Munich: 1/1), Charlie Davies (FC Sochaux: 5/2), Landon Donovan (Los Angeles Galaxy: 33/11)

(for whatever reason ussoccer.com gave the caps/goals or shutouts for WCQs and not all international games)

The front page of SBI has links to bars and restaurants that will be showing the Honduras game, it looks like there's around 100 or so showing the game in Spanish and a whopping FIVE showing it in English so far. The only place showing the game within 100 miles of me happens to be only 10 minutes away, now I have a decision between watching the game at a bar in enemy territory or hoping that I can find a working stream at home. Each option has it's pros and cons.

[Big Fo]

The US under-20 team sucked ass today, losing 3-0 to South Korea. Germany beat Cameroon 3-0 so they finished third in the group on goal difference (-3 to -4) but their chances of making the next round aren't too good.

[RainMaker]

I'm kind of nervous about the U.S. chances still. Haven't looked good against the bottom feeders in the group. Honduras will be real tough on the road and Costa Rica slaughtered us already.

[illinifan999]

Wesley Sneijder picks a great time to get his first goal at Inter, what a goal!

[whomario]

German Bundesliga Team Hertha Berlin with high comedy :




both goals within 5 minutes in the first half ... Only 10 minutes prior to that they scored an own goal as well ... It´s like watching the Bengals really.
Guess where they stand in the table ? When it rains, it pours

[illinifan999]

[RainMaker]

I'm trying to get into soccer overseas and following the English Premier League. Was going to follow a team throughout the season.

My question is, what is the point for the 14 or so teams that have no shot to ever win anything in it? It just seems that it's a competition between 4-6 teams year after year. Is there any motivation for the teams in the middle of the pack outside of pride? Just seems like MLB's big/small market disparity but 100 times worse.

[bhlloy]

I guess getting into the Europa League and avoiding relegation are the real prizes now in terms of league position. I agree, it must suck to be a fan of one of the middle teams that has no shot at winning the title/getting into champions league but also isn't really a threat to go down (although ask Newcastle fans about the latter, staying up every season is still something to celebrate)

FA Cup, Carling Cup and Europa League are good prizes to aim for as well, although of course the top 4 in the league (or some other elite European club) often win those as well.

I really wouldn't mind seeing a European super league at some point for this reason, if it was done with sensible promotion/relegation that ensured a truly dominant team could go up and a team that had slipped from the elite could go back down. Of course if it does happen it will be the big money clubs buying their way in, but still, it would make national leagues much more meaningful again.

[bhlloy]

DOLA - support a Championship team instead, the league is truly competitive, realistically anybody in the division has a great shot of making the playoffs or possibly getting relegated and the football is a pretty impressive standard as well.

Specifically, Cardiff City. A team with great heritage, only team ever to take the FA cup out of England, new stadium, great fans and play some of the most attractive football in the division

[law90026]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm trying to get into soccer overseas and following the English Premier League. Was going to follow a team throughout the season.

My question is, what is the point for the 14 or so teams that have no shot to ever win anything in it? It just seems that it's a competition between 4-6 teams year after year. Is there any motivation for the teams in the middle of the pack outside of pride? Just seems like MLB's big/small market disparity but 100 times worse.

I think most supporters of the not-big clubs tend to be those that actually live in the area and have always supported those clubs growing up. The main motivation for them is non-relegation because the BPL is a major cash cow right now.

For some of the mid-tier sides, it's challenging for the 2nd tier European competition. For some of the sides outside of the big 4 (currently maybe another 2-4 sides), it's trying to break into the big 4.

I think some of the relegation battles can be interesting. Not those where 1 side is pretty much relegated early but those where a few of the newer sides are fighting for survival against some of the more "established" clubs (like Newcastle last year).

[RainMaker]

I guess I don't see the point though still. Why not just take those 6 top teams that are the only ones that have a chance to win every year and have them play in a league by themselves? You'd have interesting matchups each week and not waste time watching the poorer teams get slaughtered all the time. The other 14 don't matter at all anyways.

Maybe it's just something you have to get used to. I just don't know if I could get into cheering for my team not to finish 3rd to last.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I really wouldn't mind seeing a European super league at some point for this reason, if it was done with sensible promotion/relegation that ensured a truly dominant team could go up and a team that had slipped from the elite could go back down. Of course if it does happen it will be the big money clubs buying their way in, but still, it would make national leagues much more meaningful again.

One problem with a potential European Super League is that the big clubs would likely band together to make it a closed system so that the Real Madrid/Man Utd/Bayern/Inter/etc. could never be kicked out of it even with a bad season.

A lot of the ideas I've seen thrown around would have those teams still playing in their domestic leagues on the weekend with the Super League in midweek, it seems like it'd just be the Champions League with more games, fewer teams, and a different format.

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Specifically, Cardiff City. A team with great heritage, only team ever to take the FA cup out of England, new stadium, great fans and play some of the most attractive football in the division

Cardiff is a cool city imo, I spent around five days there on a trip to the UK and really enjoyed it.

[bhlloy]

Oh I agree 100%, if it happens it won't be with promotion/relegation. It will be just like rugby where the bigger regions/clubs have sides in the national competition and the super leagues.

If it is a midweek competition to replace the Champions League, then I'd be very interested to see if the bigger clubs handle it. In theory that opens up the domestic leagues in essence making them a kind of reserve/B team. I'd also be very interested to see if the Premiership tells them to shove it if this happens and to choose one or the other. One one hand, the Premiership isn't going to be happy with a Man U team with very few stars playing week to week. On the other hand, a weakened Man U team probably still makes them ten times as much money than any other team in the country they could replace them with would make.

[law90026]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I guess I don't see the point though still. Why not just take those 6 top teams that are the only ones that have a chance to win every year and have them play in a league by themselves? You'd have interesting matchups each week and not waste time watching the poorer teams get slaughtered all the time. The other 14 don't matter at all anyways.

Maybe it's just something you have to get used to. I just don't know if I could get into cheering for my team not to finish 3rd to last.

Well, it's not possible to have a 6 team league that would generate enough revenue for the 6 clubs. People would get bored of seeing the same games over and over again.

It's the matchups with the 14 other teams that add drama. Like this weekend's 2-2 draw between Stoke and Man Utd. Or last week's Wigan win over Chelsea. These are big results for the smaller clubs and, at the same time, make the title race somewhat interesting for the clubs that are actually competing for it.

If you support the smaller sides, you're essentially rooting for the underdog.

In the past, there have also been surprise stories, like Everton qualifying for the Champions League, Portsmouth winning the FA Cup ... stuff like that.

I guess the same question could be asked about why people support specific NBA teams (Clippers, Grizzlies, etc) when they know there's no chance of them winning anything.

[MIJB#19]

15 teams can qualify for the World Cup in the upcoming weekend, here's what they have to do to secure it over the weekend, (as far as I could figure out ).

Cameroun with win + Gabon loss

Tunisia with win + Nigeria draw or loss

Algeria with win + Egypt loss or draw,
or with a draw + Egypt loss

Ivory Coast with win, draw or Burkina Faso loss or draw

USA with win,
or with draw + Costa Rica loss or draw,
or with loss + Costa Rica loss

Mexico with win + Hoduras or Costa Rica loss or draw,
or with draw + Costa Rica loss

Honduras with win + Costa Rica loss

Chili with win,
or with draw + Ecuador or Argentina loss or draw,
or with loss + Ecuador loss or Argentina loss or draw

Ecuador with win + Argentina loss or draw + Venezuela loss or draw + Colombia loss or draw

Denmark with win vs Sweden

Switzerland with win + Greece-Latvia draw

Slovakia with win or draw

Germany with win

Serbia with win,
or with draw + France loss or draw,
or with loss + France loss

Italy with win or draw

[BishopMVP]

Clint Dempsey is out for the Honduras game.... is that a bad thing? If it's Holden on the wing that's not a bad trade. I'd also rather see Torres out there in Central America, but we'll probably see Clark instead at DM. Baby Bradley obviously being a given.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Clint Dempsey is out for the Honduras game.... is that a bad thing? If it's Holden on the wing that's not a bad trade. I'd also rather see Torres out there in Central America, but we'll probably see Clark instead at DM. Baby Bradley obviously being a given.

nope. i'm actually glad that dempsey is out, since BB refuses to play him up top where dempsey obviously wants to be. holden's actually a better choice IMO - much more of a 2-way player and far less likely to make catastrophic mistakes. and he can whip in the crosses!

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

nope. i'm actually glad that dempsey is out, since BB refuses to play him up top where dempsey obviously wants to be. holden's actually a better choice IMO - much more of a 2-way player and far less likely to make catastrophic mistakes. and he can whip in the crosses!

Any chance you're gonna try and catch the game on TV? There's a lot of Spanish-language places listed in Chelsea and Revere. I'll probably end up watching Florida-LSU instead and trying to catch an internet stream if those even exist and gametracker if not, but if we get an FOFC contingent I could be talked into it.

Other bad news: Frankie Hejduk was called into camp to replace Dempsey, and it sounds like Feilhaber has as strong a chance as Holden at starting. Hopefully not, he sucks defensively, and more relevantly is not very good on the wing.

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm...good question. i'm not sure if i'll try to catch it or not.

i'm actually not as much of a hejduk-hater as i used to be. i want to be a hater, but surprisingly he hasn't really had a really atrocious game defensively in a long time - he's got a massive workrate and always seems to be around the action.

ugh...feilheiber shouldn't be on the wing - you're right on in your analysis of him

[BishopMVP]

Yeah, I love watching Frankie Hejduk play - I'd just rather it be on the Revs rather than the USMNT.

[SirFozzie]

I'll try to find a stream somewhere.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Yeah, I love watching Frankie Hejduk play - I'd just rather it be on the Revs rather than the USMNT.

unfortunately there aren't that many USMNT options to replace him...sad as that is

[Big Fo]

I'd like to see a midfield of Donovan-Bradley-Clark-Holden but am ready to be disappointed. As much as I dislike Bradley Sr. using two holding midfielders against weaker teams at home I think that will be needed in Honduras (I'll admit that I haven't seen Torres play many times and maybe he's better defensively than I perceive him to be).

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

I'd like to see a midfield of Donovan-Bradley-Clark-Holden but am ready to be disappointed. As much as I dislike Bradley Sr. using two holding midfielders against weaker teams at home I think that will be needed in Honduras (I'll admit that I haven't seen Torres play many times and maybe he's better defensively than I perceive him to be).

I wouldn't say he's better defensively than Clark or Bradley, but that's not our problem. Our problem has been giving away possession way too cheaply after our defense wins it. Some of that's on the defenders for going long ball too early, but it's also easy to see why they have little to no confidence trying to go through the midfield.

[whomario]

at the U20 WC Germany reached the quarterfinals after a great fight against Nigeria. They were down 1:0 and 2:1 , played the last half hour with one man less (red card which was not a terrible call but not a good one either ...) and scored the 3:2 in injury time in the last seconds. Typical mistake by Nigeria who wanted to win it and the got caught on the counter attack. Awesome goal, wins a huge tackle in midfield, takes off by himself and then applies an absolutely clinical finish :




Too bad they had to draw Brasil, who are by far the best team left ... Anyway, seeing the Roster it´s a success no matter what.



Other Quarter Finals :

Korea - Ghana
Italy - Hungary (Italy beat spain, hungary the czech republic)
UAE - Costa Rica (Costa Rica beat host Egypt ! )

[SirFozzie]

Jack Warner says he's not impressed with England's 2018 World Cup Bid.

Jack Warner unimpressed by England 2018 World Cup bid - FIFA World Cup 2010 - ESPN Soccernet

I have my official corruption-English translation guide... let's see what it says..

"I am not pleased that they have not yet paid me enough to vote for them"

Quelle surprise.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I wouldn't say he's better defensively than Clark or Bradley, but that's not our problem. Our problem has been giving away possession way too cheaply after our defense wins it. Some of that's on the defenders for going long ball too early, but it's also easy to see why they have little to no confidence trying to go through the midfield.

If playing Torres can help our defenders refrain from nervously hoofing the ball to nowhere so often then it could be worth a shot. I know Bradley will be out there and feel that dropping Clark would be harsh after he won the last qualifier with that sweet long-range goal though.

Holden being the one to replace Dempsey would also help the team maintain possession. Like you said Holden would be preferable to Feilhaber on the right.