Who will (not should) be the Republican presidential nominee in 2008? - Page 13

Young Drachma · 05-21-2008, 07:38 PM

The double talk express checks into in with Essence Magazine. I think McCain is delusional, not because he chooses to go and interview with Essence, but simply because he's clearly willing to say ANYTHING to get elected.

Buccaneer · 05-21-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

The double talk express checks into in with Essence Magazine. I think McCain is delusional, not because he chooses to go and interview with Essence, but simply because he's clearly willing to say ANYTHING to get elected.

But that's what politicians do, esp. those running for office.

Young Drachma · 05-21-2008, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

But that's what politicians do, esp. those running for office.

If you read the article, you'd get what I was talking about. He basically denied when they asked him about Bush's comments to the Knesset that it was about Obama, denied he called him an appeaser when days earlier he did just that in the mainstream media.

I read a lot of periodicals and observe a lot this penchant of publications to talk to their 'audience' assuming that their 'audience' doesn't include particular groups and they talk about them in a very overhead sort of way.

This is precisely what was going on here. McCain knew he could make his comments seem far less than what he intended to be to the people he was targeting in the original context, to seem 'tough' on Obama, while softening up in a publication aimed at a group he's targeting.

Politicians do what they do to get elected. They all do it. No surprise there. And we talk about it.

flere-imsaho · 05-22-2008, 08:49 AM

Bucc - I think McCain's taking it to another level. He's openly contradicting himself. I think you could get away with this even 10 years ago by just ignoring the objections, but now it's as if McCain hasn't ever heard of YouTube:

Passacaglia · 05-22-2008, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Dola: The downside would be that my girlfriend would insist on renting more Bollywood movies.

Check out 'Naseeb' -- it's hysterical.

st.cronin · 05-22-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Check out 'Naseeb' -- it's hysterical.

1998 or 1981?

Buccaneer · 05-22-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Alright, flere, you got your way.

Yes, now it's even? (assuming you think what any of the politicians say mean anything)

molson · 05-22-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

The double talk express checks into in with Essence Magazine. I think McCain is delusional, not because he chooses to go and interview with Essence, but simply because he's clearly willing to say ANYTHING to get elected.

And Obama simply gets the benefit of the doubt here because we don't have much past footage of him (though there is a youtube video where he says he's visited 57 states - imagine if McCain had said that).

SackAttack · 05-22-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

And Obama simply gets the benefit of the doubt here because we don't have much past footage of him (though there is a youtube video where he says he's visited 57 states - imagine if McCain had said that).

We wouldn't have heard about it, because he's been basically invisible with the Republican primary ending so much earlier than the Democratic primary.

st.cronin · 06-03-2008, 07:00 PM

New Mexico is holding primaries today (although not the Democratic presidential one, that one was held some time ago). There is a fairly important race on the Republican side, for the Senate seat held by Domenici, who is retiring. The two contenders are the two Republican representatives, Steve Pearce and Heather Wilson. Wilson is from the 2nd District (Albuquerque), and is mainly regarded as a moderate with hawkish tendencies. Pearce is from the 3rd District (the southern part of the state, including Las Cruces). I don't know a lot about him, but his campaign has presented a fairly conservative, ideological message, sort of like Ron Paul. The polls have generally had Pearce with a slight lead, but in Wilson's congressional contests she has generally been an underdog. The winner will face off in November against the third New Mexico representative, Tom Udall (D), from the northern part of the state (Santa Fe/Taos). The conventional wisdom is that Udall will rout Pearce, but that Wilson might have a fighting chance. Its a closed primary, which probably hurts Wilson.

I voted for Wilson.

st.cronin · 06-03-2008, 07:07 PM

dola

Also there is the Democratic primary for Udall's house seat, which the Democrats will almost certainly keep. There are 6 candidates on the ballot, I think, and the favorite is Lujan, who was actually outed as gay by one of the non-favorites during a recent debate.

Young Drachma · 06-03-2008, 07:08 PM

McCain tonight will be out tonight to basically say that Hillary was railroaded by the media and that he's the real standardbearer for the indies and women.

Young Drachma · 06-03-2008, 07:44 PM

Right change v. Wrong change. That's the new juxtaposition that the right is trying. Basically selling fiscal conservatism as change to free America. Smart idea, but from a strict sales pitch point of view, they're gonna have to really step their game up. It's obvious his crowds are smaller, older, weaker and can't compete with the Obama rock concerts.

It's gonna be an interesting race for sure. McCain is going to become the Maverick again. Might work. Might not.

John McCain: The Name You Know.

Cute.

Young Drachma · 06-03-2008, 09:39 PM

McCain will not beat Obama by staging a reactive campaign. You can't simply mimic their slogans, pack small rooms and try to stage mini-rallies and think you're gonna fake people into believing you care about them.

They're gonna have to get substantive, inject some energy and quick too. The vaunted Clinton juggernaut just got beat by an upstart campaign fueled by folks who are tired, don't care about specifics and are tired of being feeling like they're ignored and that a bunch of fat cats are running their government.

The GOP really just needs to break down and get their house in order, because there are a lot of ways to beat what the Dems are swilling this year. But they're showing a profound inability on the right of figuring out how to capture a real message, because they simply don't have one.

And that's just not going to cut it this year, no matter what the Hillarycrats say they'll do in November.

Because even if Obama is an inexperienced hack whose benefiting from his race to get to a spot no one like him has ever done before, the fact of the matter is...he's slayed a formidable opponent, is raising a ton of money and has a political operation that's grassroots and is passionate.

I would not take this thing lightly or else, they're going to be a footnote to history.

Buccaneer · 06-03-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

and that a bunch of fat cats are running their government

And after the election, a bunch of fat cats will still be running the government.

SFL Cat · 06-03-2008, 09:50 PM

^^^That goes without saying...regardless of which party wins.

st.cronin · 06-03-2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

They're gonna have to get substantive, inject some energy and quick too. The vaunted Clinton juggernaut just got beat by an upstart campaign fueled by folks who are tired, don't care about specifics and are tired of being feeling like they're ignored and that a bunch of fat cats are running their government..

I think you're overstating what a juggernaut Clinton's campaign was. There was always significant pessimism surrounding her chances, both to get the nomination and to carry the general election. Its true that she was able to raise a lot of money, but she HAD to just to become a viable candidate.

Young Drachma · 06-03-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

And after the election, a bunch of fat cats will still be running the government.

Yes, I know. But barring the formation of a new Republic, we have to live in the present reality and as such, I'm speculating based on them.

SFL Cat · 06-03-2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Because even if Obama is an inexperienced hack whose benefiting from his race to get to a spot no one like him has ever done before, the fact of the matter is...he's slayed a formidable opponent, is raising a ton of money and has a political operation that's grassroots and is passionate.

Actually, Obama = Jimmy Carter

Working against him -- The long drawn out primary fight was in his own party rather than the Republican party. If a lot of Hillary supporters either sit this one out or vote for McCain...he'll be crushed.

Working for him -- McCain isn't very exciting to the conservative base. Big question -- will they hold their nose and vote for him...or will they sit this one out too. If this happens it could be a close race. I still think McCain wins because Obama hasn't done very well in the key battleground states.

Young Drachma · 06-03-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think you're overstating what a juggernaut Clinton's campaign was. There was always significant pessimism surrounding her chances, both to get the nomination and to carry the general election. Its true that she was able to raise a lot of money, but she HAD to just to become a viable candidate.

Ok, lemme help you.

A black guy named BARACK OBAMA beat the former first lady turned US Senator for the Democratic nomination.

A black guy named BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA who had no real infrastructure, was a horrible underdog, who won his senate seat against token opposition and who had barely any national political experience at all before this race.

The reason I bring up his name is because up until February, black folks didn't give this guy a chance to win, much less anyone else. I don't think anyone ever imagined the first black President could possibly be a person with a story like this. He's not just vexing people who are hardened political realists, he's very much vexing the old black guard who realize that he could very put them out of business in the way it's been operating in the post-civil rights era anyway.
I'm not overstating anything. The former First Lady of the most popular President still alive in this country before this all got started (and arguably, after this, when the wounds heal) who was running from a true blue state, with tons of brand recognition and the winds of history at her back...

lost to an upstart who defied every odd against him to even be at this point. Let's not understate how big a deal it is that he managed to pull this off.

I can't think of a comparable sports analogy yet, because the general election isn't over.

Again, just from the perspective of the Monday Morning Quarterback (certainly not from a substantive policy watcher position) this is crazy stuff.

st.cronin · 06-03-2008, 10:07 PM

I agree that its remarkable that Obama won. I just don't think its remarkable that Clinton did NOT win. When it came down to Obama vs. Clinton, I thought Clinton would win. But when it was Clinton vs. the field, I genuinely didn't think she had a chance in hell. She was not a juggernaut candidate in respect to the field.

Young Drachma · 06-03-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I agree that its remarkable that Obama won. I just don't think its remarkable that Clinton did NOT win. When it came down to Obama vs. Clinton, I thought Clinton would win. But when it was Clinton vs. the field, I genuinely didn't think she had a chance in hell. She was not a juggernaut candidate in respect to the field.

She had a lot more money than any of them and the Clinton brand is strong as anything.

You're thinking substance and forgetting the fact that you're a well-informed individual with views based on years of study, nuance and deep convictions. Most voters are far, far, far from that. They vote for far different, shallower reasons.

Hence the groundswell of Hillary = women's rights, which is still going on now. Older white women take this entire race personally. They'll identify with McCain and trust him over this young upstart who is black and has a funny name. He'll pick them off for sure, if they bother to go to the polls in November.

It's their kids, those boomers that will make or break this thing. That of course, presuming that they can cancel out the youngsters who seek to make this their watershed moment.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-03-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Big question -- will they hold their nose and vote for him...

Yeah, I imagine so.

And I say that as someone who doesn't feel like McCain is worth a bucket of warm spit and definitely would not have bothered voting in the race if it had been McCain/Clinton (even though I still think of her as hellspawn).

SFL Cat · 06-03-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

McCain will not beat Obama by staging a reactive campaign. You can't simply mimic their slogans, pack small rooms and try to stage mini-rallies and think you're gonna fake people into believing you care about them.

They're gonna have to get substantive, inject some energy and quick too. The vaunted Clinton juggernaut just got beat by an upstart campaign fueled by folks who are tired, don't care about specifics and are tired of being feeling like they're ignored and that a bunch of fat cats are running their government.

The GOP really just needs to break down and get their house in order, because there are a lot of ways to beat what the Dems are swilling this year. But they're showing a profound inability on the right of figuring out how to capture a real message, because they simply don't have one.

And that's just not going to cut it this year, no matter what the Hillarycrats say they'll do in November.

Because even if Obama is an inexperienced hack whose benefiting from his race to get to a spot no one like him has ever done before, the fact of the matter is...he's slayed a formidable opponent, is raising a ton of money and has a political operation that's grassroots and is passionate.

I would not take this thing lightly or else, they're going to be a footnote to history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I agree that its remarkable that Obama won. I just don't think its remarkable that Clinton did NOT win. When it came down to Obama vs. Clinton, I thought Clinton would win. But when it was Clinton vs. the field, I genuinely didn't think she had a chance in hell. She was not a juggernaut candidate in respect to the field.

C'mon, Hillary Clinton has zero charisma. He might be a scoundrel, but Bill can charm the scales off a rattlesnake.

Hillary gave the impression that this was a coronation rather than nomination process and that attitude didn't sit well with a lot of younger voters...plus, I think her attempt to move to the middle angered a lot of the Moveon, anti-war crowd that seem to be the dominant (or at least the loudest) voice in the Democrat party nowadays.

It's true she has tons more experience than Obama -- but in today's politics, charisma trumps substance.

Wolfpack · 06-03-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeah, I imagine so.

And I say that as someone who doesn't feel like McCain is worth a bucket of warm spit and definitely would not have bothered voting in the race if it had been McCain/Clinton (even though I still think of her hellspawn).

I didn't know you liked Chelsea in that way, Jon.

ISiddiqui · 06-03-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

I don't think anyone ever imagined the first black President could possibly be a person with a story like this.

Uh... wasn't everyone touting Obama as a future President after his 2004 DNC Keynote Speech?

Buccaneer · 06-03-2008, 10:22 PM

Dark Cloud, I still think you are underestimating Hillary's negatives. Sure she had a lot going for her, but equally, a lot going against her (from her baggage and from her bad-mother-in-law personality). As I said from the beginning, you cannot overlook how despise she was/is in certain segments of her own party, not to mention those not in her party. It ended up better going with an unknown than the devil you know, in this case.

SFL Cat · 06-03-2008, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Uh... wasn't everyone touting Obama as a future President after his 2004 DNC Keynote Speech?

True. And during most of the primary season, he was certainly glam-handled by the media until that SNL skit.

mckerney · 06-03-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Uh... wasn't everyone touting Obama as a future President after his 2004 DNC Keynote Speech?

Yep, but pointing that out would contradict the "No one believed we could do it" Obama has been running on since Iowa.

ISiddiqui · 06-03-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

True. And during most of the primary season, he was certainly glam-handled by the media until that SNL skit.

There was that.

Can I also talk about how the media had no problem going after Clinton early and often here, or will I be seen as bitter?

SFL Cat · 06-03-2008, 10:31 PM

You bitter, bitter person...

Buccaneer · 06-03-2008, 10:31 PM

I think we ought to merge the two threads.

Young Drachma · 06-03-2008, 10:47 PM

From Fox News about the speech:

MORT KONDRACKE: Well, John McCain had better start working on his speechmaking and learn how to use a teleprompter. I mean, the gap, the rhetorical gap between this speech and...Oratorical gap between this speech and John McCain's was vast. John McCain sounded old. This sounded fresh and new and exciting and visionary. And he was enlisting the country to join him in a great cause. This is our moment, all of that.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-03-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

I didn't know you liked Chelsea in that way, Jon.

Ack, I meant "think of her as hellspawn".

{shudders as the mental image of that horror movie looking kid of theirs]

ISiddiqui · 06-03-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

{shudders as the mental image of that horror movie looking kid of theirs]

Wait, what?

I'd hit that!

Late bloomer, FTW!

Buccaneer · 06-03-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

From Fox News about the speech:

MORT KONDRACKE: Well, John McCain had better start working on his speechmaking and learn how to use a teleprompter. I mean, the gap, the rhetorical gap between this speech and...Oratorical gap between this speech and John McCain's was vast. John McCain sounded old. This sounded fresh and new and exciting and visionary. And he was enlisting the country to join him in a great cause. This is our moment, all of that.

+1

JonInMiddleGA · 06-03-2008, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Wait, what?

Did you intentionally pick a photo where it appears she has fangs just to go with my description?
All that's missing is Buffy to come along with a stake.

Quote:

I'd hit that!

From the looks of that face I'd say someone beat you to it ... with a mallet & an ugly stick.

SFL Cat · 06-03-2008, 11:12 PM

OOOOOOOOOOO. Poor Chelsea. You've got to admit, though, she's looking better than she used to...

ISiddiqui · 06-03-2008, 11:18 PM

Wow... I mean talk about judging someone based on preconcieved notions. Chelsea looks pretty good these days, especially on the Hillary campaign. I'm not sure what is up with people saying she looks 'ugly'. I have to ask if they have eyes. She's not Angelina Jolie or anything, but far from ugly.

Grammaticus · 06-03-2008, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

From Fox News about the speech:

MORT KONDRACKE: Well, John McCain had better start working on his speechmaking and learn how to use a teleprompter. I mean, the gap, the rhetorical gap between this speech and...Oratorical gap between this speech and John McCain's was vast. John McCain sounded old. This sounded fresh and new and exciting and visionary. And he was enlisting the country to join him in a great cause. This is our moment, all of that.

The old part keeps popping up again and again. Seems to be the most popular punch. Mcain needs to pull a page from the Reagan book:

Quote:

Reagon during his debates with Mondale
"I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience"

McCain needs to come up with a fresh twist on this, but something witty and funny on the age play sure would help him out.

I mean come on the guy could probably whip Obama's butt if it came down to good ol' fisticuffs.

mckerney · 06-04-2008, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

The old part keeps popping up again and again. Seems to be the most popular punch. Mcain needs to pull a page from the Reagan book:

McCain needs to come up with a fresh twist on this, but something witty and funny on the age play sure would help him out.

I mean come on the guy could probably whip Obama's butt if it came down to good ol' fisticuffs.

I think he did pretty well managing to make light of it here, along with coming off pretty well making fun of himself:

flere-imsaho · 06-06-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I think we ought to merge the two threads.

As I posted in the othe primary thread, I think we should lock this one and all move over to the General Election thread I see someone else had started (and I would have, if I had had internet access during the past week).

Mods?

albionmoonlight · 06-06-2008, 11:20 AM

McCain is old. So are a lot of voters. I don't see it being a huge handicap as long as he plays his cards right.

Kodos · 06-06-2008, 11:32 AM

John McCain. If the dinosaurs had elected him, they'd still be around.

Buccaneer · 07-23-2008, 07:08 PM

It looks like we are down to two: one that's on the list (Romney) and one that's not (Pawlenty).

View Poll Results: Who will (not should) be the Republican presidential nominee in 2008?
Rudy Giuliani	28	20.90%
Mike Huckabee	23	17.16%
Duncan Hunter	2	1.49%
John McCain	42	31.34%
Ron Paul	10	7.46%
Mitt Romney	23	17.16%
Tom Tancredo	3	2.24%
Fred Thompson	3	2.24%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

06-03-2008, 07:00 PM	#610
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	New Mexico is holding primaries today (although not the Democratic presidential one, that one was held some time ago). There is a fairly important race on the Republican side, for the Senate seat held by Domenici, who is retiring. The two contenders are the two Republican representatives, Steve Pearce and Heather Wilson. Wilson is from the 2nd District (Albuquerque), and is mainly regarded as a moderate with hawkish tendencies. Pearce is from the 3rd District (the southern part of the state, including Las Cruces). I don't know a lot about him, but his campaign has presented a fairly conservative, ideological message, sort of like Ron Paul. The polls have generally had Pearce with a slight lead, but in Wilson's congressional contests she has generally been an underdog. The winner will face off in November against the third New Mexico representative, Tom Udall (D), from the northern part of the state (Santa Fe/Taos). The conventional wisdom is that Udall will rout Pearce, but that Wilson might have a fighting chance. Its a closed primary, which probably hurts Wilson. I voted for Wilson. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

06-03-2008, 07:07 PM	#611
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	dola Also there is the Democratic primary for Udall's house seat, which the Democrats will almost certainly keep. There are 6 candidates on the ballot, I think, and the favorite is Lujan, who was actually outed as gay by one of the non-favorites during a recent debate. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

06-03-2008, 07:44 PM	#613
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Right change v. Wrong change. That's the new juxtaposition that the right is trying. Basically selling fiscal conservatism as change to free America. Smart idea, but from a strict sales pitch point of view, they're gonna have to really step their game up. It's obvious his crowds are smaller, older, weaker and can't compete with the Obama rock concerts. It's gonna be an interesting race for sure. McCain is going to become the Maverick again. Might work. Might not. John McCain: The Name You Know. Cute. Last edited by Young Drachma : 06-03-2008 at 07:47 PM.

06-03-2008, 10:07 PM	#621
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I agree that its remarkable that Obama won. I just don't think its remarkable that Clinton did NOT win. When it came down to Obama vs. Clinton, I thought Clinton would win. But when it was Clinton vs. the field, I genuinely didn't think she had a chance in hell. She was not a juggernaut candidate in respect to the field. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

05-21-2008, 07:38 PM	#601
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	The double talk express checks into in with Essence Magazine. I think McCain is delusional, not because he chooses to go and interview with Essence, but simply because he's clearly willing to say ANYTHING to get elected.

05-22-2008, 08:49 AM	#604
flere-imsaho Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicagoland	Bucc - I think McCain's taking it to another level. He's openly contradicting himself. I think you could get away with this even 10 years ago by just ignoring the objections, but now it's as if McCain hasn't ever heard of YouTube:

06-03-2008, 07:08 PM	#612
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	McCain tonight will be out tonight to basically say that Hillary was railroaded by the media and that he's the real standardbearer for the indies and women.

06-03-2008, 09:39 PM	#614
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	McCain will not beat Obama by staging a reactive campaign. You can't simply mimic their slogans, pack small rooms and try to stage mini-rallies and think you're gonna fake people into believing you care about them. They're gonna have to get substantive, inject some energy and quick too. The vaunted Clinton juggernaut just got beat by an upstart campaign fueled by folks who are tired, don't care about specifics and are tired of being feeling like they're ignored and that a bunch of fat cats are running their government. The GOP really just needs to break down and get their house in order, because there are a lot of ways to beat what the Dems are swilling this year. But they're showing a profound inability on the right of figuring out how to capture a real message, because they simply don't have one. And that's just not going to cut it this year, no matter what the Hillarycrats say they'll do in November. Because even if Obama is an inexperienced hack whose benefiting from his race to get to a spot no one like him has ever done before, the fact of the matter is...he's slayed a formidable opponent, is raising a ton of money and has a political operation that's grassroots and is passionate. I would not take this thing lightly or else, they're going to be a footnote to history.

06-03-2008, 09:50 PM	#616
SFL Cat College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: South Florida	^^^That goes without saying...regardless of which party wins.

06-03-2008, 10:22 PM	#627
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Dark Cloud, I still think you are underestimating Hillary's negatives. Sure she had a lot going for her, but equally, a lot going against her (from her baggage and from her bad-mother-in-law personality). As I said from the beginning, you cannot overlook how despise she was/is in certain segments of her own party, not to mention those not in her party. It ended up better going with an unknown than the devil you know, in this case.

06-03-2008, 10:31 PM	#631
SFL Cat College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: South Florida	You bitter, bitter person...

06-03-2008, 10:31 PM	#632
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	I think we ought to merge the two threads.

06-03-2008, 10:47 PM	#633
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	From Fox News about the speech: MORT KONDRACKE: Well, John McCain had better start working on his speechmaking and learn how to use a teleprompter. I mean, the gap, the rhetorical gap between this speech and...Oratorical gap between this speech and John McCain's was vast. John McCain sounded old. This sounded fresh and new and exciting and visionary. And he was enlisting the country to join him in a great cause. This is our moment, all of that.

06-03-2008, 11:12 PM	#638
SFL Cat College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: South Florida	OOOOOOOOOOO. Poor Chelsea. You've got to admit, though, she's looking better than she used to... Last edited by SFL Cat : 06-03-2008 at 11:15 PM.

06-03-2008, 11:18 PM	#639
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Wow... I mean talk about judging someone based on preconcieved notions. Chelsea looks pretty good these days, especially on the Hillary campaign. I'm not sure what is up with people saying she looks 'ugly'. I have to ask if they have eyes. She's not Angelina Jolie or anything, but far from ugly. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

06-06-2008, 11:20 AM	#643
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	McCain is old. So are a lot of voters. I don't see it being a huge handicap as long as he plays his cards right.

06-06-2008, 11:32 AM	#644
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	John McCain. If the dinosaurs had elected him, they'd still be around. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

07-23-2008, 07:08 PM	#645
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	It looks like we are down to two: one that's on the list (Romney) and one that's not (Pawlenty).

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