Bowl Bound College Football Demo is out!

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

don't start this. GDS was generous enough giving us a demo to play around with, which is a heckuva lot more than what we've got from other tight-lipped companies. just play the demo and buy the game whenever it's released.

Arlie said there will be an updated demo

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...&postcount=542

[sovereignstar]

Curious, what relation does this Tim Plum have with GDS?

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Curious, what relation does this Tim Plum have with GDS?

He was with arlie at .400 software forum too.

and now he close with Arlie at Grey dog forum

[Arles]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Curious, what relation does this Tim Plum have with GDS?

Nothing official, just a heck of a beta tester and extremely helpful with the forums. Guys like Tim allow me to spend most of my time coding and not chasing threads.

As to the demo, I am working on an update right now. I can't give a firm ETA, but it will be out before the final version for sale. I just want to make sure I get as many of the reported bugs fix as possible before updating it.

[jbmagic]

great news about end of game decisions by the cpu teams

Arlie Rahn
Guys, the AI has been improved for late game logic in the next build. There are now "overrides" to aid gameplans late in the game for those who sim. Plus, you can set how often you want to go on fourth down on average. Still, late game situations will most likely now go to a different set of AI. If you are up in an obvious running situation and the gameplan calls for a pass, it will override a run. If you are down with under 2 minutes and at 4th and 3 at midfield, it will go for it, etc.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Arles

Nothing official, just a heck of a beta tester and extremely helpful with the forums. Guys like Tim allow me to spend most of my time coding and not chasing threads.

As to the demo, I am working on an update right now. I can't give a firm ETA, but it will be out before the final version for sale. I just want to make sure I get as many of the reported bugs fix as possible before updating it.

Great news and I thought you posted already about having another demo, found it and saw I even replied to it. Man, work has been a bear the past 3 weeks, I'll be glad when my vacation starts.

[kingfc22]

Thanks for the update Arles

[kingfc22]

I had an OT named as a First Team AA, but his player card says he was 2nd team.

[Arles]

I just updated the demo to version 1.01. You can get it here:

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/downloads.php?id=50

You can either uninstall the old version or simply install this one over it - both methods should work OK (although the first is probably a little cleaner). It's a 35 MB file.

The first thing is that version 1.00 saves will not work with this. With all the changes to automating the academics, changes to the player pools, allowing users to specify alma maters and some other changes, I really needed to modify the save format a little. Now, saves created in 1.01 will work with the final retail version, so feel free to start a career now you intend on finishing with the full version.

As to items fixed, there are a bunch and I will try and highlight some of the bigger ones:

1. Academics can now be outsourced to your staff like other aspects of your career.
2. Users can choose their alma mater for their coach on league creation.
3. Improved the polls logic.
4. Bowl selection should now avoid same conference teams unless it's a 1-2 final game.
5. Bowl selection should not choose 5-win teams over available 6+ win ones.
6. The game will now lay in front of the windows taskbar for 1024X760.
7. Improved coach and transfer logic.
8. Recruits now wait a little longer to commit and some of the lower recruits will commit earlier (ie, not the last week).
9. Adjusted recruiting logic to make better decisions.
10. Changed the recruit pool position and talent level to provide more recruits and a more realistic experience.
11. Added in depth chart locks (quick note - the locks are only designed to allow the user to lock and suggest without having certain guys get moved. Once a game starts, all locks are removed so that the AI can handle injuries.)
12. Added more plays - especially option plays to the left-side and option plays focusing on the wingback and fullback.
13. The wingback is now grouped in with the fullback for specifying % of carries. If the set called has only a fullback, he will run it that %. If the formation called has both, the carries will be split 50-50 between wingback and fullback.
14. End of game/half logic improved to better call plays/handle fourth downs.
15. Red zone logic improved to not call dime defenses on 3rd and goal from the 2 and use more goalline.
16. Field goals should be more realistic from a standpoint of poorer kickers.
17. The AI will now pull starters in a blowout and replace with second/third string guys.
18. Fixed PAT issues (fields goals, retaining possession,...).
19. Fixed penalty and field position issues.
20. Fixed other reported bugs on the forums.

So, have at it and let me know what you guys think.

[Wasabiak]

Thank you

[Cuckoo]

Nice. Can't wait for the final version.

[sovereignstar]

awesomeness

[Bee]

So is this still considered a beta demo or is it a final demo?

I ask because I don't really want to beta test and would prefer to wait until the demo is more or less representative of the release.

Thanks,
B

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Bee

So is this still considered a beta demo or is it a final demo?

I ask because I don't really want to beta test and would prefer to wait until the demo is more or less representative of the release.

Thanks,
B

From what I am seeing so far, this is probably pretty close. As best as I can tell, the remaining issues are reports and tweaks. There might be a few bugs left here and there, but probably nothing really beyond what would be acceptable for a 1.00 version

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

Just so you know, this version is one version beyond the latest one in my dynasty, and all issues that came up in it are purported to have been addressed for this demo.

[Bee]

Cool. I look forward to trying it out this weekend.

[Wasabiak]

Something I noticed........Time runs off the clock on kickoffs that are touchbacks. I had 8 secs left in the 1st half in a game and the other team kicked off to me, and it was a touchback, and the clock went down to 2 secs. Is this the rule in college football or is it the same as in the NFL where the clock doesn't start on a kickoff until the receiving team touches the ball?

[Icy]

I'm getting ready a bowl logos pack, will try to finish it asap but i'm right now in a hotel in the Canary Islands and my wife won't be so happy if i expend the whole day on the computer. She is already saying that i was lucky that the hotel has wireless internet (like if i wasn't 100% sure when i booked it ).

Life is perfect sometimes, summer time in December, the sea in front of me, a cocktail in my table, the latest BBCF release in my notebook, my wife enjoying getting burn under the sun... we better enjoy this that are our last holydays before she gives birth to our little girl and then our life will change forever.

Here are samples of my bowl logos pack:

[MizzouRah]

Now, saves created in 1.01 will work with the final retail version, so feel free to start a career now you intend on finishing with the full version.

Music to my ears. Thanks Arlie!!

Good job on the logos as well Icy, enjoy yourself there!!!!

[dubb93]

Thanks Arlie

[George]

Originally Posted by Icy

I'm getting ready a bowl logos pack, will try to finish it asap but i'm right now in a hotel in the Canary Islands and my wife won't be so happy if i expend the whole day on the computer. She is already saying that i was lucky that the hotel has wireless internet (like if i wasn't 100% sure when i booked it ).

Life is perfect sometimes, summer time in December, the sea in front of me, a cocktail in my table, the latest BBCF release in my notebook, my wife enjoying getting burn under the sun... we better enjoy this that are our last holydays before she gives birth to our little girl and then our life will change forever.

Nice job with the logo pack, Icy!

[John Galt]

Playing with the new demo, I noticed these things (some may have existed in the old demo too):

1) Suggesting formations with an option team leads no plays in the I form even though it has a formation bonus. Instead you have a bunch of plays in I form Big. So, either the bonus is wrong or the play allocation is wrong.

2) Why is the goal line formation not used with a 4-3 or 3-4 in the defensive philosphy suggest screen?

3) Why do I get plays suggested that aren't in one of my allocated formations?

4) Being required to carry 3 SS's for purposes of redshirting seems excessive to me. Same with 2 P's. I'm sure this may apply to other positions, and I don't think pre-update, the game was as restrictive.

5) I kind of liked having my toolbar at the bottom of the screen like in the previous demo. Whether it was intentional or not, I'd like to have it as an option.

6) Does L/R positioning on the field matter? If not, that is a notable omission. If so, then there should be some indication of where you are in relation to the hashmarks.

7) There are spelling mistakes in the PBP. "enzone," for example.

8) It would be nice if receivers cutoff their routes at distances different than 5 yds sooner than expected. It is also strange to have this message so much on short routes.

9) Defensive play suggestions are still pretty odd. I should never be playing run defense on 3rd and 11 with a team on their own 6 yard line. Yet, that is what is suggested.

10) This may be based on small sample sizes, but it seems to me that there is too much emphasis on playing def run or def pass. If you play vanilla defense (4-3 normal), you seem to give up a ton of offense to even crappy teams. Yet, if you switch to alternating extremes of def run and pass (with all sorts of formations), you don't give up nearly as many big plays (even when you guess totally wrong about what is coming). Either that, or all of the 4-3 Norm plays just suck. Again, though, it may be sample sizes, so I'd like to hear other experiences on this.

11) I still have random "pauses" while playing a game so that I have to hit "resume."

12) I like the yellow highlight for injured players on the depth chart.

13) When I allocate "academics" to my staff, do they actually allocate study hall hours? Mine didn't allocate any the first week even though I have 105 available. Nothing was allocated the second time through either. What exactly is my staff doing?

14) Way too much time runs off the clock before you get a time out. The other team got the ball with 1:05 to play. They run, I call timeout. :36 seconds left. They run again, I call timeout again. There are only 9 seconds left. That sucks.

The last two items seem to be the most important to me. I'll probably have more later.

[CraigSca]

Nice job, John. You should be in software QA

[Arles]

I'll check these out. The last two are indeed bugs. The allocations occur when you set the AI to run academics, they are just not deducted off the total (the assumption was that most people would set it not to deal with it - not turn it on for one week and turn it off the next). But I can clean that up.

For the time out issue, we found this on taking a knee, but is it also on running plays? Outside of that, I will look into the rest as well. Bear in mind though, that plays are just "focusing" on one particular area on defense. So, if I was Georgia playing Akron and they were 3rd and 11 at their own 6, I may call a play focusing on the run as odds are they would probably take the safe route and not want to turn the ball over. Of course, I would probably call a "nickel" or "dime" formation looking at the run - not a goalline.

[John Galt]

Another thing:

Delay of game penalties seem to be assessed against the defense in yards, but against the offense in terms of how much yardage their is to go for a first down. Either that, or their some confusion when a penalty is at the 50 yard line. Here is the game log:

Unnecessary Roughness against Wisconsin. The Penalty is for 15 yards.
The Defense will accept the penalty. It is now Second and 19 at the Iowa 50.

Delay of Game against Wisconsin. The Penalty is for 5 yards.
The Defense will accept the penalty. It is now Second and 24 at the Iowa 45.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Nice job, John. You should be in software QA

Thanks. Being a lawyer requires one to be anal. That is probably helpful in QA as well.

[Arles]

Does L/R positioning on the field matter?

Yes it does matter, but not as much from a field positioning standpoint. More from a matchup with the opposing defense standpoint.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Arles

For the time out issue, we found this on taking a knee, but is it also on running plays? Outside of that, I will look into the rest as well. Bear in mind though, that plays are just "focusing" on one particular area on defense. So, if I was Georgia playing Akron and they were 3rd and 11 at their own 6, I may call a play focusing on the run as odds are they would probably take the safe route and not want to turn the ball over. Of course, I would probably call a "nickel" or "dime" formation looking at the run - not a goalline.

It happened on running plays as well.

I don't know. On 3rd and 11, I would assume my pass defense could stop any run short of 11 yards. And I certainly wouldn't want to risk playing the run and getting burned for a big play. I think the defensive play suggestion may be paying too much attention to the offensive formation (I form) and not enough to the situation. As it turned out, the offense did run the ball, and my pass defense stopped them.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by John Galt

It happened on running plays as well.

OK, thanks. That will help us pin it down.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by John Galt

5) I kind of liked having my toolbar at the bottom of the screen like in the previous demo. Whether it was intentional or not, I'd like to have it as an option.

Another quick Q. I'm assuming you are running the game in 1024X760. If that's the case, doesn't the toolbar block part of the play-by-play results? That was the main reason I put the app in front of it for that resolution as people were complaining they couldn't see all the results without hiding the toolbar.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Arles

Another quick Q. I'm assuming you are running the game in 1024X760. If that's the case, doesn't the toolbar block part of the play-by-play results? That was the main reason I put the app in front of it for that resolution as people were complaining they couldn't see all the results without hiding the toolbar.

It never bothered me. I think if I felt I was missing something, I just slided the whole game up just a little. It's not a big deal, but I like having my toolbar.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Another thing:

Delay of game penalties seem to be assessed against the defense in yards, but against the offense in terms of how much yardage their is to go for a first down. Either that, or their some confusion when a penalty is at the 50 yard line. Here is the game log:

Unnecessary Roughness against Wisconsin. The Penalty is for 15 yards.
The Defense will accept the penalty. It is now Second and 19 at the Iowa 50.

Delay of Game against Wisconsin. The Penalty is for 5 yards.
The Defense will accept the penalty. It is now Second and 24 at the Iowa 45.

I just had another delay of game and this didn't happen. That leads me to believe the problem is with the play starting at the 50 yard line.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by kingnebwsu

UPDATE: Apparently there are 2 kinds of player cards. One goes on the main game screen and the other is a pop-up that comes outside of the game. I'm talking about the latter. It's very clear on the in-game card, but the pop-up one the player's class is hidden. I didn't even notice this until now...lol

I think the player's class really needs to be on both player cards. Right now I was looking at award candidates and I can't tell what year this stud QB from VaTech is.

[Anguscl]

Is their a place to set at either blowout loss/win that mass subs are brought on?

[dubb93]

10) This may be based on small sample sizes, but it seems to me that there is too much emphasis on playing def run or def pass. If you play vanilla defense (4-3 normal), you seem to give up a ton of offense to even crappy teams. Yet, if you switch to alternating extremes of def run and pass (with all sorts of formations), you don't give up nearly as many big plays (even when you guess totally wrong about what is coming). Either that, or all of the 4-3 Norm plays just suck. Again, though, it may be sample sizes, so I'd like to hear other experiences on this.

Is this with the new demo only? I haven't played it yet, but with the old demo I always played vanilla defense except on 3rd and long and ended up going 12-0 and winning the championship one season. My defense was in the top 10 in the country that season as well.

[dubb93]

Found something I do have a problem with. I have 2 safetys, 1 free safety that is a run stopper, and 1 strong safety that is a cover guy. I would like them to switch positions, but can't because moving either one would put us below the minimum number at their position(I have 3 of each). Any way we can get a pop-up message that will tell us this will put us below the minimum number and allow us to go ahead and do it as long as we are back at the minimum number for that position when we close the window?

[dubb93]

Just saw something I haven't seen before. We are trying to get in field goal range as the half runs out and are out of timeouts...

Florida State ball, Q2, 1-10-UGA23 (00:02) 17-0
Offense: Short Pass, Set: Pro Set, Play: PS-HB-curls
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: Nickel, Play: Nickel-pass-MZ

QB Lauvale Dominguez is in trouble. He feels the outside pressure, steps up into the pocket and then releases the ball towards TE J.R. Knapp running a streak pattern. The ball is caught, and the TE is tripped up by CB Randy Rolle.
They hurry to the line of scrimmage and spike the ball!FSU: Gain of 9 on the play.



The QB spikes the ball to stop the clock!

I did NOT call a play to spike the ball. The QB just realized we were out of timeouts and had just moved into field goal range so I guess he took it upon himself to hurry the team up to the line after the play

NOTE: I assume the 0:02 was the time after the play as there were about 15 seconds left when the play started.

[Arles]

Yeah, QBs will spike the ball in this version. For the safety issue, I can roll back the requirement to 2 and do an additional check to see if you have atleast 4 other safeties on the roster. That should be OK.

[Ben E Lou]

Had it simming all day today while at the office. For those who were wondering about slowdown deep into a career, it appears that it will be minimal. 27 seasons in, I'm getting seasons running at 32-34 minutes, as opposed to the 28-31 minute seasons in the early years. As deep as this game is, I don't expect many people to get that far too quickly, either. I haven't timed myself yet, but I know it takes me well over an hour to get through recruiting alone.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Arles

For the safety issue, I can roll back the requirement to 2 and do an additional check to see if you have atleast 4 other safeties on the roster. That should be OK.

Thanks, that would be awesome.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Just saw something I haven't seen before. We are trying to get in field goal range as the half runs out and are out of timeouts...



I did NOT call a play to spike the ball. The QB just realized we were out of timeouts and had just moved into field goal range so I guess he took it upon himself to hurry the team up to the line after the play

NOTE: I assume the 0:02 was the time after the play as there were about 15 seconds left when the play started.

Now that is pretty cool.

[MrBug708]

Is there any trick to getting transfers? I cant get them to save my life. Whether I play as a good team or a bad one.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Just saw something I haven't seen before. We are trying to get in field goal range as the half runs out and are out of timeouts...



I did NOT call a play to spike the ball. The QB just realized we were out of timeouts and had just moved into field goal range so I guess he took it upon himself to hurry the team up to the line after the play

NOTE: I assume the 0:02 was the time after the play as there were about 15 seconds left when the play started.

It took him 13 seconds to spike the ball?

[albionmoonlight]

Are recruits influenced by the type of offense/defense that you run?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Are recruits influenced by the type of offense/defense that you run?

Yes, and they're also influenced by your returning players. I recently had an all-SEC RB who was a rising Sophomore, and as a result had no 3-5 star RB's with more than 5 initial interest--even those who were in-state. It has been a little harder to notice specific instances of how style of play impacts recruits, but Arlie has said that it definitely is a factor.

I may be wrong, but the way I read it, the play before the spike and the spike combined to take 13 seconds. If so, that would seem about right.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I recently had an all-SEC RB who was a rising Sophomore, and as a result had no 3-5 star RB's with more than 5 initial interest--even those who were in-state.

That's too extreme. Unless you were able to recruit at least one of those into 9 or 10 interest and possibly signing with you. Schools like Texas and Georgia stockpile RB talent given what's on hand in their home states.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

That's too extreme. Unless you were able to recruit at least one of those into 9 or 10 interest and possibly signing with you. Schools like Texas and Georgia stockpile RB talent given what's on hand in their home states.

I got one up to around 8 or 9, I'm pretty sure. I can't remember whether or not I landed him.

[John Galt]

A few things:

1) The suggest function doesn't always fill out the roster as needed. I had a situation where I had only 1 healthy, non-suspended fullback. The suggest didn't put a HB as the backup FB. So, when I went to start a game, it gave me a FB error. I also have passing down FB problems for the same reason.

2) One thing that should definitely be stickied is the weekly schedule view. If you want to default to the top 25 view, it should allow you to do that. Always taking you to the conference schedule is tedious especially during the bowl weeks.

3) I take back what I said about vanilla defenses. More experiments have made me believe there isn't a problem.

4) Late game play-calling is still weird. Too much running by teams who can't afford to run the clock.

5) A bowl screen that shows all the bowl matchups would be VERY nice. This should be in addition to the new email letting you know which bowl you are playing in.

6) If you recruit on the pitch of "style," do the players actually check your "style" to see if they match? If not, that is a big problem, IMO. If they do, then I would think "style" should count a little more when there is a match.

7) There seems to be a lot more going for it on 4th down in this version. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. But I think it needs to be fine-tuned. I've seen teams going for it when they are up by 2 late in the game, on my 9 yard line, with 4th and 3. I think very few coaches would think about it in that situation. 4th and 1 - maybe. 4th and 3 - not a chance, IMO.

That's it for now.

[John Galt]

Actually, one more thing. A 5-6 LSU team and a 5-6 Wyoming team made a bowl. That shouldn't happen. At least the LSU team won. Wyoming finished 5-7.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

That's too extreme. Unless you were able to recruit at least one of those into 9 or 10 interest and possibly signing with you. Schools like Texas and Georgia stockpile RB talent given what's on hand in their home states.

I think I'd agree with Huckleberry here. It's a nice idea and can certainly have significant bearing on recruits decisions, but one great RB who can declare for the draft after next year shouldn't mean that you get nobody at that position interested in your school. It's cool that you did manage to get his interest up, but it's possibly not realistic to begin with.

If done right, this is a nice design idea but I'd be worried it could go too far. USC is stacked at most positions after the last couple of recruiting classes, and the only position really looking likely to be adversely affected is QB, with a Frosh and a RS-Soph who are both previous #1 at their position already on the roster. Even Tebow is looking at SC in his final 5 schools although we have little-no chance of getting him.

Hell, SC recruited 4 top 20 linebackers last year, graduate nobody significant and still have 3 or 4 five star guys who primarily play linebacker who have them in their final 2 or 3 schools.

So... nice idea but I wouldn't want it to be too common. Playing time is big for some recruits, but only in the most extreme cases IMO would it lead to a whole position being "off-limits" for that year.