Alright boyz, here we go (OOTP6 Thoughts!)

[Buccaneer]

What are you comparing it to, ragone? That's the way it was in OOTP5 and I have no problem with that. Anyone else want to provide a better answer?

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

What are you comparing it to, ragone? That's the way it was in OOTP5 and I have no problem with that. Anyone else want to provide a better answer?

It's the same.

[Ragone]

Not really.. Ai To Ai Trades make ABSOLUTELY no sense in 6.. they did for the most part in 5.. In one sim.. Royals traded Grienke (shocked they didn't just waive him) for Wilson Alvarez STRAIGHT ACROSS..


now seriously.. wtf?

[Buccaneer]

Ummm, where did my post go where I had asked the initial question?

The question was for those knowing or hearing about playing with Lahman and with waivers off, OOTP6 should be a better experience than OOTP5, right?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Ragone

Not really.. Ai To Ai Trades make ABSOLUTELY no sense in 6.. they did for the most part in 5.. In one sim.. Royals traded Grienke (shocked they didn't just waive him) for Wilson Alvarez STRAIGHT ACROSS..


now seriously.. wtf?

I don't know who those two players are and I'm certain the OOTP engine doesn't either. Is there an official statement from Marcus et al that the trade engine was messed with between 5.11 and 6.02?

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I don't know who those two players are and I'm certain the OOTP engine doesn't either. Is there an official statement from Marcus et al that the trade engine was messed with between 5.11 and 6.02?

Not much of a baseball fan, eh?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Not much of a baseball fan, eh?

If you had seen as much as I have, esp. the further we get into the Selig era, would you be?

[Ragone]

well to break it down to you buc

Wilson Alvarez is like a 32+ year old 1 star player

Zach Greinke is a 21 year old 5 blue star pitching prospect that is nearly major league ready.. and also better rated now then wilson alvarez

but other then that.. with waivers off.. you should be okay.. but still.. i have a hard time playing when ty cobb's getting 4.6 mill a year in his era

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

If you had seen as much as I have, esp. the further we get into the Selig era, would you be?

Fair point. But you've never heard of Wilson Alvarez? And the infamous trade that the ChiSox made when they were in serious contention?

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Fair point. But you've never heard of Wilson Alvarez? And the infamous trade that the ChiSox made when they were in serious contention?

Sigh

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

Sigh

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Fair point. But you've never heard of Wilson Alvarez? And the infamous trade that the ChiSox made when they were in serious contention?

American League, right? That's why.

[jbmagic]

to get realistic trades , put it on hard, favor prospects

and change the default player AI evaluation Modifier..the default weighs to much on current stats, so if a player has a slow start, the Ai might trade him...

Rating, current, last yr stats, 2 yr old stats

April 50%,0%,30%,20%
May 50%, 5%, 30%, 15%
June 50%, 10%, 30%, 10%
July 50%, 15%, 30%, 5%
Aug 50%, 20%, 30%, 0%
Sept 50%, 25%, 25%, 0%

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

to get realistic trades , put it on hard, favor prospects

and change the default player AI evaluation Modifier..the default weighs to much on current stats, so if a player has a slow start, the Ai might trade him...

Rating, current, last yr stats, 2 yr old stats

April 50%,0%,30%,20%
May 50%, 5%, 30%, 15%
June 50%, 10%, 30%, 10%
July 50%, 15%, 30%, 5%
Aug 50%, 20%, 30%, 0%
Sept 50%, 25%, 25%, 0%

Thanks for the tips! I might have to restart a solo career using these numbers.


Todd

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

to get realistic trades , put it on hard, favor prospects

and change the default player AI evaluation Modifier..the default weighs to much on current stats, so if a player has a slow start, the Ai might trade him...

Rating, current, last yr stats, 2 yr old stats

April 50%,0%,30%,20%
May 50%, 5%, 30%, 15%
June 50%, 10%, 30%, 10%
July 50%, 15%, 30%, 5%
Aug 50%, 20%, 30%, 0%
Sept 50%, 25%, 25%, 0%

How would that effect those using Lahman 5.1?

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

How would that effect those using Lahman 5.1?

It would help the AI better value players when dealing with each other. The defaults in the game put to much stock in the current year stats which forces the AI into some strange decisions. By forcing the game to make ratings the most important aspect in evaluations it makes more decisions that make 'sense' to a human player. We understand that the ratings rule the engine not the stats.

[Buccaneer]

But that was the jist of my question. Using Lahman, you can base ratings upon total career (which is already known) or remaining career (which is recommended). No new (fictional) players are usually created so anyone coming into the league can be based on future ratings. You talk about options using current, last season and 2 years old but doesn't Lahman complicate that?

[jbmagic]

that player ai evaulation weight modifier...works great for fictional, historical, real roster, etc

just set it like i said above..

One Note:
for historical Use Ankit db and anlit career db to import rookies that the best database to use for historical.....there way more accurate than Lahman 5.1...Ankit has improve it , no need for us to edit the players at all..
can be found at ootp mod forum...

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

But that was the jist of my question. Using Lahman, you can base ratings upon total career (which is already known) or remaining career (which is recommended). No new (fictional) players are usually created so anyone coming into the league can be based on future ratings. You talk about options using current, last season and 2 years old but doesn't Lahman complicate that?

I think we are talking about different things.

There are options to adjust how the AI values the players in the game. It bases it's decisions on some combination of ratings/current year stats/stats from y-1 and stats from y-2.

Those options don't to my knowledge have any effect on how it takes players from lahman and creates their originial ratings/talents. As far as I know that works the same as version 5. If it's been changed, I haven't noticed it mentioned anywhere, nor have I seen any threads complaining about how it works in version 6.

Is that what you meant?

[Buccaneer]

Yes, thank you. I'm finally gettting ready to setup everything in OOTP6. I think I will do what I did the very first time I played in OOTP4 (and got me insansely hooked) and start a career in 1970 with the Reds.

[Buccaneer]

What is the recommended settings for Adjust Hitters/Pitchers and Make Bad Pitchers/Hitters when starting a historical league aroung 1970?

[jbmagic]

get ankit db for historical and ankit career db for importing rookies....

in the readme he has the recommend setting you need to do...

again there way better than lathman db for historical

[kcchief19]

Bucc, I love you, but do you know how much of a fanboy you sound like when you are defending OOTP6 and you didn't even have the game yet?

jbmagic's post is a classic example of why OOTP keeps coming up short for many of us. I have to change the rating weights every month to get realistic trades? What do I have to do to play OOTP and get realisim? Quit my job?

For online play, OOTP 6.2 is fairly solid. There's still some concern over importing from v5. For solo play, 6.2 has two major updgrades: the new stats engine, which is very nice, and the new roster managment tools, which have some bugs. It sounds like Markus has decided to pass on patching those bugs until he gets ready for the next major patch which will include promised features that didn't make it in at launch.

I've been teased by OOTP from the very beginning. I think the parntership with SI is the best thing to happen to the game and will hopefully take the franchise to the next level. To a certain degree, I think you have to classify OOTP6 as a disappointment -- there are still bugs in the much-ballyhooed features and there are some promised features that still aren't in the game.

[Buccaneer]

kc, you are still reading how you want to read it. You want people to purposely criticize the game so you can validate your point(s). I just want to start playing the game. Despite its flaws, it is my favorite sports title of all time and if that bothers you, so be it.

I got confused earlier when it sounded like v.6 regressed from v.5 but it became apparent that some were comparing it to v.3 (wtf?), some were expected something unrealistic and some just don't want others to like the game. That's why I was getting at that playing with Lahman (Ankit's db is too predictable) with waivers off should be a better experience for me. With the new engine (that's really the only thing that's important, right???), it should be better. I don't care what it can be or should be, all I care about is how I want to play the game now. Sorry that I won't join your crusade.

As far as settings, all I care about are the load settings. Most of the AI ones will be defaulted, trades will be hard and favoring prospects and I won't use Ankit or monthly settings. That's the way I have always played and still want to. Now we got a better engine that produces realistic results. What more do you really want that are not bells or whistles or something tedious like DMB?

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I got confused earlier when it sounded like v.6 regressed from v.5 but it became apparent that some were comparing it to v.3 (wtf?), some were expected something unrealistic and some just don't want others to like the game. That's why I was getting at that playing with Lahman (Ankit's db is too predictable) with waivers off should be a better experience for me. With the new engine (that's really the only thing that's important, right???), it should be better. I don't care what it can be or should be, all I care about is how I want to play the game now. Sorry that I won't join your crusade.

Playing with waivers off you should really enjoy it. The engine really is nice upgrade.

[jbmagic]

how is ankit database more predictable?

ankit db is lathman database , it just edit on things that lathman readme recommends to do...


how is waivers better playing it off? what else you recommend to disabled in version 6 when playing thanks

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Playing with waivers off you should really enjoy it. The engine really is nice upgrade.

Something I've been wanting to ask you lynchjm24. Do you find yourself playing ootp6 or Puresim more often?


ALSO - Could anyone with the game goto 'league setup' - 'engine setup' - 'edit era' - and tell me what settings you're using. I haven't changed a thing besides Leadoff lineup AI: favor speed. The top 3 options are normal but:

Pinch hitting is set to: often
use relivers: often
pitcher endurance: fair

I'm not sure why they aren't set to 'normal', but I assume that's the 1980's default era's settings?


Thanks,

Todd

[The_herd]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Something I've been wanting to ask you lynchjm24. Do you find yourself playing ootp6 or Puresim more often?


ALSO - Could anyone with the game goto 'league setup' - 'engine setup' - 'edit era' - and tell me what settings you're using. I haven't changed a thing besides Leadoff lineup AI: favor speed. The top 3 options are normal but:

Pinch hitting is set to: often
use relivers: often
pitcher endurance: fair

I'm not sure why they aren't set to 'normal', but I assume that's the 1980's default era's settings?


Thanks,

Todd

You are correct. Thats the '80's default settings.

Edit - that's also the settings I use when running a league. The only thing I mess with is the "League Totals" numbers. I'm not a big fan of the current high scoring style of play in baseball.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by The_herd

You are correct. Thats the '80's default settings.

Edit - that's also the settings I use when running a league. The only thing I mess with is the "League Totals" numbers. I'm not a big fan of the current high scoring style of play in baseball.

Thanks! I thought I changed them somehow.


Todd

[Ben E Lou]

This thread has now become the most-viewed thread at FOFC (besides the reference thread, of course).

[Ksyrup]

I'm still waiting for the waivers issue to be resolved before I go any further with this game.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm still waiting for the waivers issue to be resolved before I go any further with this game.

Same here.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

how is ankit database more predictable?

ankit db is lathman database , it just edit on things that lathman readme recommends to do...


how is waivers better playing it off? what else you recommend to disabled in version 6 when playing thanks

From Ankit

Ankit DB - modifies the original database so that players will import during their first year in which they played significantly. This leads to OOTP assigning better ratings for ability and talent, thus the player will perform more closely to how he performed in real life.

It's the last sentence that makes it more predictable, imo. I have played over 40 seasons with Lahman in 3 different eras and I have been very pleased at the variety of results of known superstars as well as minor stars becoming superstars.

[Ben E Lou]

Author Thread

Markus Heinsohn Administrator Registered: Dec 2001 Location: London, Islington Posts: 2150 Status: Online! OOTP 6.03 patch status update OK, the patch is coming along nicely, it will enter beta testing in a couple of days, so you can expect it to be released early next week if all goes well. Here are the most important changes: - Fixed speed issue (game runs even faster than 6.01 now, at least on my machine ) - Fixed waiver AI (teams now pull players off waivers if they get claimed and the AI has no interest in losing them) - Fixed (many) reported bugs More detail to come soon! Cheers, Markus Edited for MD's literal interpretation-by Steve Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 06-14-2004 10:45 AM

[stevew]

Hopefully he will have squashed the conversion bugs so the leagues Im in can actually convert now.

[Ksyrup]

If the waiver issue and speed issue are fixed, I will be extremely pleased and ready to play. The speed issue is a bonus, since I was willing to grudgingly accept the slowdown as part of the price to pay for advanced AI "thinking."

[Hammer755]

Same here Ksyrup. I think OOTP6 can be a very, very good game but the waiver issue makes it unplayable for me right now. If that bug gets fixed, I'll be a happy gamer. The speed issue is a nice bonus as well.

[jbmagic]

there three other big issue that neeed to be solved too...Beside the waivers and speed...


first the minor league free agent is broken

go here and read: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...threadid=66530

and also the promotion bug for online leagues....it will keep draining cash after each export..even if you dont schedule another promotion day

read it here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...=promotion+bug

and the player salary report , dont give correct information...who really a free agent and not...
read it here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...threadid=66965

thanks

[Buccaneer]

Here's what I've come up with so far. In my usual 'micromanaging the macromanagement' style, I have spent about 4 hours setting things up and still have a little left to do (yes, I love doing this part).

I have already mentioned why I chose to go with Lahman instead of Ankit but unfortunately, there have been very little comments at OOTP on setting up and doing historical careers (unlike what I had seen with v.4 and v.5). I wonder why? I did see TigerFan's dynasty but because of the infinite variety in how one can play OOTP, his setups are not totally applicable to what I am doing. I am using the recommended hitters/pitchers threshold mentioned in that thread as well as using Remaining Career, as I always do.

As far as the league setup, I have gone through 3 of the screens. Coaches are disabled, trades are hard/prospects and minors are set to AI. The Financials screen was interesting to go through. I have no salary cap, $10m cash max and the TV stuff at defaults. No change there from my v.5 career. Roster size is 25 of course. I disabled waivers and then also ended up disabling option years, rule 5 drafts and minors FA. They seem like too much micromanagement to me and therefore since they are all tied to the 40-man roster rules, I went ahead and disabled that as well. I love drafting (and think OOTP does it well) but I just see all of these options getting in the way in my decision makings (as well as not wanting to have even more of an advantage over the AI). I kept arbitration because I love how that worked in v.5 for it ended up being a key decision making bonus.

As far as the engine setup, I'm glad to see the era settings still there and starting with the Reds in 1969, that puts me in the middle of the Baseball Boom era. Nice. I'm going with the new engine because it's better as well as something new. I still don't know about Player Evaluation AI setup so I'll just keep it at default.

Most of the time, however, was devoted what I love most about OOTP: setting up a historical league structure and 'look-and-feel'. I like to modify some of the graphic elements to match the team I am playing. I found a really nice Big Red Machine background that I'm now using as default (after adjusting it in Photoshop). I take the Wood Cherry skin and change some of the colors (like substituting in red trim instead of green), as well as change some of the textcolors and colors settings.

I, of course, have a large logos database and it was easy to gather all of the appropriate logos for 1969. I did find a new Pilots logo that I wanted use (the "winged" version instead of the "S") so that's cool. I already had the comprehensive 50s-60s-70s facepack to go along with the Lahman database so it was a matter of copying millions of files over.

I had used Stickware but had never been completely happy with that. Luckily, I found the superb thread by TigerFan on all of the .csv custom schedules (both historical and fictional) and easily plugged in the 1969-1976 schedule (18/12 unbalanced). This process is a million times better than previous versions. Can someone please tell Jim about this?.

The park and parkconfig files are still an issue for me. By default, I see that bringing in the 1969 league created all of the correct ballparks. That must be new and a very nice feature. But when the teams move (as a handful will next season or two), it looks like I am going to have to manually create the proper stadiums (Three Rivers, etc.). I still have my old park and parkconfig files but bringing them in really messed up what was already setup. Does anyone have a better idea?

That's all I can think of for now. My logs are ready to go. If you were to ask my what my favorite thing about OOTP is besides playing a historical league, I would say it's the html outputs. I think the Roster Report html, as well as the individual player html are the most beautiful and useful output I have seen from any game (esp. with the logos and facepacks) and better than anything from any of the other text sims (can someone tell Jim about these html outputs too?). These have saved me from creating more custom logs for I can just print the Standing Report, Rating Report, Roster Report and Salary Report and place them directly in my (now) very large 3-ring binder to go along with my custom Season Log.

[McSweeny]

that was a great read Bucc. I'm not quite sure why but i found myself grinning and smiling as i read your post.

i would really love to get into a historical sim, but i always have a problem with the drafting and player development. I don't like the fact that the players i draft are already ready to start. I like watching my players develop and getting excited when they do well and bummed out when they do poorly. It's another way to keep me in the game. If there were some way to get this to work better, i'd be very very happy with the historical aspects of OOTP.

Another slight complaint i have is that it is a bit of a pain to handle all the team moves, stadium changes, and expansions. I don't mind doing it, i just wish there was a more seamless way to do it.

Anyway, i certainly would like to see some more discussion around the historical aspect of the game. I think people focus far too much time on weird fictional sims, semi-pro leagues and complaints when they don't work properly, and not enough on how amazing the historical aspect can really be.

and thanks Bucc for motivating me to finally spend the time i need to to get involved in a nice, in depth historical game

[Buccaneer]

Thanks McSweeny for the kind words. I know I am in the minority when I say that I love to do team moves, expansions, stadium changes, etc. One thing that helped was a suggestion by Ksyrup a while back on when I did the 1969 expansion in my previous dynasty in using all historical players. It was a long process but I felt was worth. I never assign rookies or free agents to their actual teams but doing that got me around from having to use AI generated players.

You might be interested in reading my previous dynasty 1960s St. Louis Cardinals Dynasty which I had a lot of fun doing (as well as having a couple of other readers helping me on some key decision makings).

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Something I've been wanting to ask you lynchjm24. Do you find yourself playing ootp6 or Puresim more often?

I've found myself testing Puresim a lot lately. I'm trying to make the financials make more sense. I'm getting there - the AI now spends all it's money, I just end up with some good players sitting in free agency even after the season starts.

Hopefully this testing pays off and improves the financial aspect. Then I've got to convince Shaun to improve the aging process, because it's so predictable that it really takes 'risk' out of the equation with a player. I know exactly how 90% of the players are going to age and at what rate their skills will change. Varied aging will improve the game 100%.

Puresim really is a 'pretty' game. The in-game screens and the menus are very nice. I didn't think I would care but I really do like it much better. If you have a crappy machine it will be painful to play a large league, but if you've got a good machine (I tried it on the GF's brand new P4 and wow!) then the speed is fine.

I'm waiting on the 6.03 patch before I do anything with OOTP. I played for a little while longer on 6.01 (6.02 was a solo disaster), but it seems they are focused on fixing the waivers problem which really ended up being a deal breaker for me.

I really play them as two different games. I'm a huge baseball guy and they are easy 1&2 in the rotation for me. I've played a lot more Puresim then say TDCB..... baseball just translates perfectly into the text sim and I get more out of it because of that.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm still waiting for the waivers issue to be resolved before I go any further with this game.

Do you plan on starting over or continuing on with a career? I just started a new one, maybe 4 games into the season.. but maybe starting new once again would be much better?!?


Todd

[Buccaneer]

While on subject of 1960s/1970s baseball. One of the coolest things about doing the careers in this time period is that I can relate it to my baseball card collection. I am now working on most of the sets from the 1960s in collector's grade (for example, I just got the 1963 Stargell rookie card). (I had most of the sets of the 1970s done for 20 years now.) After doing the Cardinals dynasty, it was so cool to go through my cards of 1961 or 1964 and seeing the cards of players I had on my team that I had not known too much about (except in my dynasty): Woodie Held, Jim Hickman, Chico Salmon, Denny LeMaster, etc. It was fun reading the backs of them and thinking that the stats were wrong and that they forgot to mention some of the highlights from my dynasty.

[jbmagic]

Buccaneer

great read...

this web site might help you know what stadium and team name change per historical year....
http://muench.oneworldhost.com/bb_chrono.htm

and for park.config,etc...there a great web site that has it for all the historical years....you just put them in your league folder for the paticular year u playing...

http://priorydesign.netmag.easyspace.com/historical.htm

also for lathman setting check here...still works great for ootp 6 too
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...threadid=30987

hope that helps for historical fans

[Ben E Lou]

Speed update with first test of 6.03:

I was at meetings most of the morning and afternoon. I ran some sims while gone. Here are the speed results:

DESKTOP
SYSTEM SPECS: P4, 2.8GHz, 1Gig RAM
LEAGUE CONFIGURATION: Default (30 teams)

From 2010 to 2025, averaged a little over 12 minutes per season.


LAPTOP
SYSTEM SPECS: P4, 2.4GHZ, 512MB RAM
LEAGUE CONFIGURATION: 2 teams, 2 divisions per league, 16 teams total

From 2004 to 2017, averaged a little under 15 minutes per season



Not bad at all. Others are looking at the waiver system more carefully. As usual, I'm looking at long-term player development, stats, etc. Markus has made some development changes that excite me. I'm curious to see how well they work.

[Ben E Lou]

The first thing I notice: the all-time HR leader, with 749, is a 1(28) pick. I am now cautiously optimistic.

[Ben E Lou]

What percentage of guys on the career leader board do y'all think should be guys drafted 1(10) or higher?


EDIT: How about current season leader boards?

[Ragone]

I kinda wish Markus would let the purchasing public test the patches kinda like Hr does.. but i digress.. hope the waiver issue gets fixed.. Seen any irregularities with waivers.. like say.. 5 star prospects getting waived for no reason skydog?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Do you plan on starting over or continuing on with a career? I just started a new one, maybe 4 games into the season.. but maybe starting new once again would be much better?!?


Todd

I ran my new career for one season, but did not "proceed to next season," so I think I'm going to restore it back to the beginning of the year and start all over.