Alright Boyz, Here We Go! The FM2008/WWSM2008 First Impressions Thread

[bulletsponge]

WTFF!!!! i think i just found a bug

i just got promoted to the EPL, and the new season started. i was given 29,500,000 in tv revenue for the new season, but it doesnt show up in my financials. this is bull shit!!!!!!! how can i possibly stay in the EPL with only 2m in the bank

[Critch]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

*cough*

your 2010 World Cup Champions...IVORY COAST

2-1 winners over England via a Yaya Toure strike in the 70th minute

That's stupid and unrealistic. England will never reach the final.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Critch

That's stupid and unrealistic. England will never reach the final.

[Flasch186]

I find it very annoying that 7 out of my last 9 games have ended in draws. Many of those miracle last second goals to help the computer tie it up (a few for us too). Very annoying and I wonder how realistic that is.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

WTFF!!!! i think i just found a bug

i just got promoted to the EPL, and the new season started. i was given 29,500,000 in tv revenue for the new season, but it doesnt show up in my financials. this is bull shit!!!!!!! how can i possibly stay in the EPL with only 2m in the bank

Its not a bug - please re-read the news item, you recieve the £29.5m on installments throughout the year (as teams do irl).

When calculating the transfer budgets etc. the clubs board will take into account expected profit/loss so this is taken into account.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Its not a bug - please re-read the news item, you recieve the £29.5m on installments throughout the year (as teams do irl).

When calculating the transfer budgets etc. the clubs board will take into account expected profit/loss so this is taken into account.

Pwned

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

WTFF!!!! i think i just found a bug

i just got promoted to the EPL, and the new season started. i was given 29,500,000 in tv revenue for the new season, but it doesnt show up in my financials. this is bull shit!!!!!!! how can i possibly stay in the EPL with only 2m in the bank

Please take the psycho overreactions to non-existent bugs over to the SI forums - you'll fit right in.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Its not a bug - please re-read the news item, you recieve the £29.5m on installments throughout the year (as teams do irl).

When calculating the transfer budgets etc. the clubs board will take into account expected profit/loss so this is taken into account.

hehe thanks. i did take my overreaction to the SI boards and they told me too.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I find it very annoying that 7 out of my last 9 games have ended in draws. Many of those miracle last second goals to help the computer tie it up (a few for us too). Very annoying and I wonder how realistic that is.

It's been like that for a couple of versions now, it's realistic enough, teams that are down by a goal will throw extra players forward and become more attacking in the last 5-10 minutes in the search of an equalizer.

It's important to try and "kill" a game if you're leading late on. My team is 4-4-2 generally, but defending a late lead I'll drop the more defensive of my central midfielders back to DM with a back arrow between the central defenders to go 5 at the back when defending. I'll also put the other CM to more defensive instructions with a barrow back to the DM position, then drop a striker back into midfield. Change to a boring 5-1-3-1 when I don't have the ball.

I'll also change the team instructions, bump up time wasting to often, move tempo to slow, close down less, go to zonal marking and turn off tight marking (you want to contain and fill space, not dive into tackles). Click for counterattack too, good chance to catch them on the break when they are throwing too many forward. I'm still not sure about passing, short passing keeps possession and wastes time, but direct could fit in with counterattack better. I also set my wingers to no forward runs, but run with ball. They can regularly be found unmarked at the sideline, able to run to the corner with the ball to eat up seconds.

Late substitutions for players who are tired also works nicely, get some fresh legs on and waste more valuable seconds too (though I think FM refs are better at adding time on to take account of subs than real refs are).

Still let in late equalizers every now and then, but it's not nearly as regular and frustrating as it used to be.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Critch

It's been like that for a couple of versions now, it's realistic enough, teams that are down by a goal will throw extra players forward and become more attacking in the last 5-10 minutes in the search of an equalizer.

It's important to try and "kill" a game if you're leading late on. My team is 4-4-2 generally, but defending a late lead I'll drop the more defensive of my central midfielders back to DM with a back arrow between the central defenders to go 5 at the back when defending. I'll also put the other CM to more defensive instructions with a barrow back to the DM position, then drop a striker back into midfield. Change to a boring 5-1-3-1 when I don't have the ball.

I'll also change the team instructions, bump up time wasting to often, move tempo to slow, close down less, go to zonal marking and turn off tight marking (you want to contain and fill space, not dive into tackles). Click for counterattack too, good chance to catch them on the break when they are throwing too many forward. I'm still not sure about passing, short passing keeps possession and wastes time, but direct could fit in with counterattack better. I also set my wingers to no forward runs, but run with ball. They can regularly be found unmarked at the sideline, able to run to the corner with the ball to eat up seconds.

Late substitutions for players who are tired also works nicely, get some fresh legs on and waste more valuable seconds too (though I think FM refs are better at adding time on to take account of subs than real refs are).

Still let in late equalizers every now and then, but it's not nearly as regular and frustrating as it used to be.

nice suggestions. and i presume you've got this saved as a tactic so you can quick-switch between it and your regular 4-4-2?

[Critch]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

nice suggestions. and i presume you've got this saved as a tactic so you can quick-switch between it and your regular 4-4-2?

Indeed I have

[Marc Vaughan]

I have 'pre-set' changes which I do every match pretty much to kill off games - subs especially are a great way of wasting time during the last 15-30 minutes.

Time them for when you're under a bit of pressure if the opposition have built up a head of steam, nothing like having to stand around for a few minutes while someone saunters off to remove their sense of urgency and cohesion while giving your team a chance to regroup and organise themselves (managers do this irl also).

[Flasch186]

so do you have to watch the whole game or watch it on "extended"?

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

so do you have to watch the whole game or watch it on "extended"?

Not sure who this was aimed at - but if you mean in order to tell whether its a good time to do a sub and relieve some pressure, I normally play on quick speed and only important events shown in 2d.

I do my subs based on the amount of clips coming up for the opposition team and a 'gut instinct' on the posession bar (if they have lots more posession than me late in a game then its normally a good time to do a sub).

[Passacaglia]

What are clips?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

What are clips?

I think he means the amount of highlights for one team or the other. If a lot of the highlights are popping up for the other team, it may be time to make a change.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I have 'pre-set' changes which I do every match pretty much to kill off games - subs especially are a great way of wasting time during the last 15-30 minutes.

Time them for when you're under a bit of pressure if the opposition have built up a head of steam, nothing like having to stand around for a few minutes while someone saunters off to remove their sense of urgency and cohesion while giving your team a chance to regroup and organise themselves (managers do this irl also).

MV CN U PST UR PRESET CHNGES AN UR SUPER-SECRET TACKTIC PLZ?!?!?! MY CNFRENCE TEAM NEEDS 2 OWN MANU AWAY TO WIN FA CUP PLZ!??!?!?! URGENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sweed]

The subject of keeping up with the match commentary while watching a game in 2d came up on the SI forum.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...1/m/6892067363

I watch the whole 90 minutes of my matches in 2d at high speed. I'm sure that's not the norm but it's the only way I feel like I know how my players are actually playing. As the SI poster brings up it's hard to keep up with both and you can miss some important hints if you don't have time to read some of the comments at important times of the match.

Since things on the SI forum get lost in the noise so fast I thought I'd throw this out here and hope Marc V sees it and comments if he sees fit. I'll also take a minute when done here and add the idea to the post at SI.

Could SI add a user adjustable delay to the play by play? Zero would be default but the user could input a delay to have the text run .X seconds behind the visual 2d display. ie a shot, tackle, foul, etc occurs you see it and then the text is displayed .1, .2, seconds later or whatever delay you choose to input. I see this being similar to how OOTP lets the user adjust the pbp speed. Only with FM you wouldn't speed up or slow down the pbp, you'd only delay it's being displayed by fractions of a second.

Would this work? Or is there something I'm not considering that would make it hard\impossible to do? Would this be a fairly easy thing for programmers to add? I can hear many arguing it's not something a lot would use so why spend the time coding it? A reasonable response but I would think simply delaying the display wouldn't be a huge coding issue but then I'm not a coder and could very well be wrong.

[Marc Vaughan]

Sweed is there a reason why you don't want to play 'split screen' with the match report in one panel and the pitch in the other - this would give you pretty much what you want already (and if you play in high resolution on your monitor then the pitch and report will both have ample room).

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Sweed is there a reason why you don't want to play 'split screen' with the match report in one panel and the pitch in the other - this would give you pretty much what you want already (and if you play in high resolution on your monitor then the pitch and report will both have ample room).

Marc, thanks for the reply. I just prefer watching the matches on the large pitch. Like a lot of Americans I thought "world" football was a boring game and only bought my first WWSM in 2006 due to all the praise I heard on these boards about the depth\immersion of FM. What I found by watching the 2d view is that football is a great game and have become a fan of the beautiful game. But like watching any games in my home I will always choose to watch on the 47" tv in the livingroom over the 28" widescreen in the basement family room, bigger is better So, if things never change I'll continue to watch on the "big screen" and be fine with that.

It's certainly not a huge issue but it is something I've thought about since playing the last two versions of EHM. When the topic came up at SI I thought it would be a good opportunity to throw out my idea to see what others thought, be it for or against. Also to maybe hear why this is something that could\ would\ should\ shouldn't be done. Not worth the coding time? Too hard to do? Easy to do in very minimal time? Never been suggested or something the SI staff never thought about? Maybe I'm the only guy in the world that would use the feature ?

[scooter]

What about just watching the match in 2d at a slower setting? Wouldn't that allow you to watch both the match and the commentary at a speed you could read? I'm not sure because I always just watch the extended highlights. I'd love to have the time to watch the entire game, but that's just not going to happen.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by scooter

What about just watching the match in 2d at a slower setting? Wouldn't that allow you to watch both the match and the commentary at a speed you could read? I'm not sure because I always just watch the extended highlights. I'd love to have the time to watch the entire game, but that's just not going to happen.

Appreciate the suggestion but running at a slower speed would put me in the boat of not wanting to watch the full 90 minutes. Right now it takes approx. 45 minutes for me to watch a full match, a little longer if I have to make many tactic changes. This is acceptable to me as it's only a little longer than a full game of OOTP. Even if I went slower I'd still get action and text simultaneously which makes it hurried to see both. Just a fraction of a second delay would result in the text staying long enough to easily be able to read the text after the action occurs.

Like I said before certainly not a huge deal and doesn't ruin the game for me.
Just thought that putting in a delay on when the text is put on the screen would be a fairly simple thing. A few lines of code with a variable with 0 being immediate\default, like now, and the user being able to change the variable to .xxx to delay the text to his liking. Of course I don't code so I don't know if it is an easy thing to do or not. IMHO if it is easy to do then I would like to see it. If it involves a lot of work and development time than I don't think it is needed.

[Izulde]

I'm having a lot of fun since the patch.

I've got Thurrock in 9th place and loaned in two guys, one a striker who's been hot and has played a lot better than his ratings would indicate. I tried to sign him but he said no. Sadly he's only here on a 3 month loan.

My other 3 month loan was one of those guys who plays quietly well.... but he just ripped up his knee and is gone 2-3 months, so I had to terminate his loan to allow him to heal up back at the club.

Trying to get a new MC loaned in till the end of the season. Had a team accept the deal.. just have to see if the player accepts.

I actually made won an FA Cup game too and have the next qualifying round up next.

[Qrusher14242]

anyone know how to stop your players from just standing around with the ball and waiting until someone comes up and steals it away from him? have had it happen a lot. There will be no one within 10 feet and he'll sit and there and allow another player to come and steal it away. Never used to happen with 07.

[gi]

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

anyone know how to stop your players from just standing around with the ball and waiting until someone comes up and steals it away from him? have had it happen a lot. There will be no one within 10 feet and he'll sit and there and allow another player to come and steal it away. Never used to happen with 07.

I've seen this happen a lot too...I just thought it was my players, now...not so much. Maybe a setting?

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

anyone know how to stop your players from just standing around with the ball and waiting until someone comes up and steals it away from him? have had it happen a lot. There will be no one within 10 feet and he'll sit and there and allow another player to come and steal it away. Never used to happen with 07.

Horse steroids stuffed in his rectum. You should see my team run!

Really I have no idea, haven't seen it but haven't played it since my laptop died last week.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

anyone know how to stop your players from just standing around with the ball and waiting until someone comes up and steals it away from him? have had it happen a lot. There will be no one within 10 feet and he'll sit and there and allow another player to come and steal it away. Never used to happen with 07.

is this lots of players, or just one? what does the decision-making of your players look like? if they have poor decision-making i suppose you'd want to use a quicker-tempo game so they get the ball and get rid of it (even poorly) rather than getting the ball and standing around stupified trying to figure out what to do with it...

[Critch]

I've not seen this problem either, but I did read that if you set a player to little creative freedom he'll spend so much time thinking "right, what did the coach say I was meant to do in this situation?" that he'll be caught in possession more.

If you've got players of limited talent, over-complicated tactics and too many instructions can confuse them too. If your team is lower division it may be worth trying to simplify.

[Izulde]

I was up until 4 am playing last night.

Still in 9th and have a game in hand thanks to making a couple brilliant loans that came in the day before going up against a good Conference Premier side... leading us to upset them and make it through to the 1st round of the FA Cup!!!

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

anyone know how to stop your players from just standing around with the ball and waiting until someone comes up and steals it away from him? have had it happen a lot. There will be no one within 10 feet and he'll sit and there and allow another player to come and steal it away. Never used to happen with 07.

If you describe your tactics more fully then I'm sure someone will be able to assist you.

If you're playing in the lower reaches then try and keep tactics simple for best success - don't confuse players basically.

(also please do realise that at that level if someone plays a 40 yard ball to a player then presuming he does manage to control it (which is only a 'possibility) it will most likely take a couple of seconds for him to get it under control rather than bouncing around his feet ... )

[Qrusher14242]

the last time it happened was with Esteban Cambiasso of Inter. I was just playing 4-4-2 and Creative Freedom was at the default setting. The GK just kicked it to him and then he got the to halfway line with no one in sight, but just kept moving a little bit at a time until someone closed him down and then they took the ball and ran with it and scored. Never ever saw that happen in 2007. Maybe if he was under pressure when he recieved the ball, but they guy wasnt.

I dunno what changed in the match engine this year, but players dont move fluid at all anymore and they dally on the ball too much. If you go back and play 2007, its much more fluid movement, at least in the 2d view.

[Passacaglia]

Stupid question -- what's the difference between simple and complicated tactics?

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

I dunno what changed in the match engine this year, but players dont move fluid at all anymore and they dally on the ball too much. If you go back and play 2007, its much more fluid movement, at least in the 2d view.

I really haven't noticed much of a difference, if anything I'd say this years looks better than last. Have you applied the patch? Pre-patch there was a closing down problem, but that was mainly the opposite of what you're complaining about.

Only continual problem I've had is that setting a player to get a near post flick at a corner seems to automatically have him head the ball out for a goal kick.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Stupid question -- what's the difference between simple and complicated tactics?

Complicated tactics mean you have players making lots of runs, extra creative freedom, short passing, etc; as opposed to a base 442.

I think.

[Blade6119]

Complicated also means harder to operate, though potentially more rewarding, and requires the right set of players to operate.

Its the difference between a base I-form football offense and the triple option. Most any team can run the I, but it takes a lot of things to run the trip. Though if done right, it can be deadly...

[Blade6119]

I tend to stick to a 4-1-2-1-2 or a 5-3-2 with two wingbacks running the flanks and sending in crosses. Ive tinkered with a 4-4-2 Diamond with a skilled winger i have, and a 4-1-1-3-1, but cant seem to find a winning combo with those 2. I used to always use fast strikers and counter-attacks, but ive begun to appreciate the target striker as ive integrated crosses into my attack more.

[DaddyTorgo]

OMFG...i need to upload this highlights file. I just had a midfielder make an 80 or so yard run and burn past the Inter defense to score.


http://www.mediafire.com/?3nyr0msbtmn

[Big Fo]

Being able to select what kind of feeder team you would prefer is a nice feature, I just came across that for the first time.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by Critch

I really haven't noticed much of a difference, if anything I'd say this years looks better than last. Have you applied the patch? Pre-patch there was a closing down problem, but that was mainly the opposite of what you're complaining about.

Only continual problem I've had is that setting a player to get a near post flick at a corner seems to automatically have him head the ball out for a goal kick.

I've noticed that occasionally (usually two midfielders) are involved in a challenge, their dots and the ball stop moving for a second or two, almost as if the engine is 'resolving' the tackle (I know its not, but thats what it looks like). I don't think it really affects gameplay at all, it just looks kind of funny. Other than that, the corner issue is the only problem I have. I think overall the engine looks pretty good this year.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by ice4277

I've noticed that occasionally (usually two midfielders) are involved in a challenge, their dots and the ball stop moving for a second or two, almost as if the engine is 'resolving' the tackle (I know its not, but thats what it looks like).

I kinda took that as being two players getting tangled in a challenge, one of them on the ground with the ball between their legs or something. It does look a bit strange though.

[Shepp]

It looks like the match engine is still in need of some work. There are still a bunch of complaints over on the SI board that defenders still aren't working quite right either.

I haven't seen it personally but I'm also concerned about the issue reported over there were substitutions are not working right.

Guess I can only keep my fingers crossed for the end of January update.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Shepp

It looks like the match engine is still in need of some work. There are still a bunch of complaints over on the SI board that defenders still aren't working quite right either.

I haven't seen it personally but I'm also concerned about the issue reported over there were substitutions are not working right.

Guess I can only keep my fingers crossed for the end of January update.

You're not playing the game because of something you haven't seen personally?

Maybe it's because I'm from the US and, not growing up watching football, don't know what to look for but I can't say I've seen anything that ruins the experience for me.

I have read many threads at SI arguing back and forth whether there are problems or whether it comes down to bad tactics. Either way these guys know way more about football than I do and they can't seem to agree. I do know there are a lot of complaints at SI. I also know there are also a lot of people (europeans etc. that know football better than I do) that are enjoying the game. And I know I don't have the expertise to tell either side they are wrong so, I'll happily play my game with my "American blinders" on as I am finding it quite enjoyable.

YMMV.

[Shepp]

I didn't say I wasn't playing the game. I just wanted to be clear that even though I haven't seen this, yet, I'm still concerned about its impact. As pissed off as I get when I lose close games. I would like to at least be assured that its because of poor tactics on my part and not something F'd up in the engine.

I know that quite a few of the complaints on the SI board should be taken with a grain of salt but they're not all without merit.

[lighthousekeeper]

I'm beginning to realize how bad I am at this game. Now in my 4th season in the Conference North, I not only have failed to get promoted, but am now starting to head in the opposite direction - just barely finishing in the top half of the table in year 3.

Now many of my previous key players have deteriorated (which they always seem to do once on my squad regardless of age) and I haven't done enough work to attract more key players. Add to this that my team has consistently bled money since day 1 (currently $250K in the red), avg. attendance has dropped from ~1000 (seas. 1) to ~300 (seas. 3), and things aren't looking too rosey round these parts.

Fortunately, my board's expectations have only been "don't get relegated", so I'm pretty safe with regards to getting sacked....I think.

[Flasch186]

i have also found a deterioration of the players on my team in BSN but I have to assume it's because this is a part time squad and I cannot get them trained up.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

*cough*

your 2010 World Cup Champions...IVORY COAST

2-1 winners over England via a Yaya Toure strike in the 70th minute

In my game, Ivory Coast came in 3rd in the 2010 WC. England lost in the finals to SPain.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

In my game, Ivory Coast came in 3rd in the 2010 WC. England lost in the finals to SPain.

surprisingly, after taking ivory coast to be the WC winner and #1 team in the world, I couldn't get brazil or argentina interested in hiring me yet.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

surprisingly, after taking ivory coast to be the WC winner and #1 team in the world, I couldn't get brazil or argentina interested in hiring me yet.

Neither Brazil nor Argentina have ever had a foreigner manage their football team (I think), so I guess in the game you'll be unlikely to be hired as their manager if you don't have the right nationality?

[Flasch186]

we suck so bad, ugh.

[Passacaglia]

I just got my career started, after getting sick of waiting for Genie Scout or whatever it is. Doing all right -- managing Queen's University Belfast in Northern Ireland Second Divison (it goes Premier, First, Second). I like it becuase league play is not such a marathon (22 games), and there's four different cup competitions to compete in, and considering how small Northern Ireland is, to be in the third level down is probably the lowest you can get. So far, I've won 4, drawn 1, lost none. I guess I don't need the Genie after all!