2007-08 Baseball Offseason

[GreenMonster]

Wow, thats all the O's could get for Brian Roberts now. Brutal.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by GreenMonster

Wow, thats all the O's could get for Brian Roberts now. Brutal.

Well, the Cubs actually tossed in a case of steroids, so it was probably a fair deal.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by GreenMonster

Wow, thats all the O's could get for Brian Roberts now. Brutal.

Actually seems like the O's got a lot in this deal. Cedeno is a still a nice prospect, Marshall should be an above average starter.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Well, the Cubs actually tossed in a case of steroids, so it was probably a fair deal.

The O's were supposed to get that case today, but it turns out Brian Roberts hacked into the FedEx system and had it re-directed to his new locker at Wrigley.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

First, about the injections of vitamin B-12. We've heard it before, athletes claiming that they've been injected with vitamin B-12, in part (at least) to combat fatigue (it helps maintain healthy nerve and red blood cells). Last time we heard it, with Raphael Palmeiro, at least some of that "B-12" was probably steroids. Vitamin B-12 is commonly found in meats, particularly seafood and beef, so people with a normal diet should naturally get enough to cover the recommended daily allowance without supplements. For those who don't, my bottle of Centrum says that one pill has 100% the RDA of B12.

Though it can be hard to get from foods, because it requires a few steps to be procecced correctly, in supplement form, what you see is what you get. Why would somebody bother to inject it, even if they were trying to get more than the "normal" amount? On another point, in the NY Times, it says that having the vitamin injected by a trainer is illegal in some states. I'm not sure if that means that it's illegal to have a trainer do it, or if it's illegal to have in the injectible form, or even what states it IS illegal (or legal) in. It's also stated that as an injectible, B-12 is given intravenously, but if it's been injected into the buttocks, that's hitting mostly muscle, not veins... It just strikes me as odd to get a vitamin which can easily be taken in pill form as an injection. But maybe he has a needle fetish?

Well, I have a friend who needs injections of B-12, because she's got pernicious anemia. Basically it's a condition that prevents regular intake of B-12 from food or pill. So, it can't be illegal to have in injectible form, or else people with pernicious anemia basically have to move or slowly die. The injections are also IM shots, done in the muscle. My friend does them in the thigh, though, not the buttocks. Though it isn't inconcievable that you couldn't have then done in the butt, you just couldn't sit for a while.

But, I do think Clemens is lying about it, just that actually may be taking B-12 as well, though for someone without pernicious anemia, pill form may be just as good.. though the IM shots may result in faster intake, I don't know.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Well, the Cubs actually tossed in a case of steroids, so it was probably a fair deal.

Wouldn't they need to keep all the steroids they could around the clubhouse with Roberts coming onboard?

SI

[Maple Leafs]

Fox apparently says the Blue Jays are trading Troy Glaus to the Cardinals for Scott Rolen.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by GreenMonster

Wow, thats all the O's could get for Brian Roberts now. Brutal.

That's all?!?!? It's a steal for the O's. Cedeno hasthe potential to b an above-average SS, and both Marshall and Gallagher will be solid #3-#5 starters in the rotation. As a Cubs fan, I hate the deal. Keep the pitchers and roll with DeRosa at 2nd. Don't deal the kids unless Bedard is coming back.

[Coffee Warlord]

...Cedeno is AWFUL, dude. He's a scrawny little error prone infielder who has offensive ability whatsoever.

edit: And this deal hasn't hit the major news outlets yet, so still dunno if it's official.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Fox apparently says the Blue Jays are trading Troy Glaus to the Cardinals for Scott Rolen.

I just don't know what to say or think about that trade...

SI

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I just don't know what to say or think about that trade...

SI

I do. They are trading problems hoping greener pastures will help those players. They decided they couldn't fix the money issue they wanted to fix (i.e. dropping those salaries).

[JeeberD]

Yay! Bye bye, Mr Astros Killer!

[dervack]

The Cubs deal is dead. But, I'm all for a deal that will take Ryan Theriot out of the everyday lineup.

[Scarecrow]

Start printing those World Series tickets, Oakland A's fans....

You've just signed Emil Brown!!!!


Royals fans can now rejoice (or snicker)

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well, I have a friend who needs injections of B-12...

Yeah, that's what I was sort of trying to get at. Didn't know B-12 was IM-injectible (that form of it wasn't listed on the drug info page I went to), but it makes sense it would be. And for someone like your friend, it makes a lot of sense. I guess the illegal part is about not being directly under a doc's care or having a trainer do it. Illegal without "real" perscription? I'm not sure what the NYT article meant...

But I imagine that if Clemens had pernicious anemia (or any disorder, really, other than douchie-ism), and required injections of B-12, we'd know. That's the kind of thing people like to talk about, in the sense of, "Oh look how much adversity he's overcome." You see it a lot with people like Adam Morrison (I think that's his name, the kid in the NBA who came from Gonzaga who has Type I Diabetes), for both good (to promote research for a cause) and for bad (to just make people be more sympathetic to you, not that I think Morrison does that at all).

I still think that if he's really injecting B-12, it's fishy (don't know much about the uptake, but again, why shoot up with it instead of take pills if you don't HAVE to) and that he's still a bit of a rat...

/tk

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well, I have a friend who needs injections of B-12, because she's got pernicious anemia.

I bet she has a doctor do it rather than a steroids dealer.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Start printing those World Series tickets, Oakland A's fans....

You've just signed Emil Brown!!!!


Royals fans can now rejoice (or snicker)

I choose snicker

He's not a bad platoon member- he's just not an everyday player.

SI

[Atocep]

Watching a bit of the hearings this morning, Donald Fehr sounds like a completely different person. None of the "all of these things need to be collectively bargained" crap that he was trying to pull last time. He's actually answering questions and seems open to suggestions.

[MikeVic]

So, Rolen for Glaus. I always liked Rolen, but there seems to be a power gap in the lineup now.

[Crapshoot]

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/...m_and_certain/

There's a lot this guy says that I agree with.

To him, athletes who take banned performance-enhancing drugs are as morally and ethically blameless as the pole vaulters who quickly converted from bamboo poles to fiberglass when they saw a competitive edge. Rather than being banned, he insists, steroids should be available, under a doctor’s supervision, to any pro or amateur adult athlete who wants them.

...In all the health and morality questions about steroids, Fost said: “It’s as though the drug hysteria serves as a distraction from more serious issues. You’d be hard-pressed to find a single death associated with steroid use, yet the TV cameras keep showing [Red Sox manager] Terry Francona drooling disgusting spit from something [chewing tobacco] that has a very high cancer rate associated with it.

“You have 400,000 deaths a year due to tobacco and tens of thousands of alcohol-related deaths, a substance heavily promoted by Major League Baseball, yet the president and Congress and the press have virtually nothing to say about tobacco and alcohol in athletics, but lots to say about steroids. A football player spending more than three years in the NFL has an 80 to 90 percent chance, according to one study, of some permanent disability, but the NFL produces films focusing on the most vicious hits. The dangers to health in sports today come not from enhancement but the sport itself.”

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

So, Rolen for Glaus. I always liked Rolen, but there seems to be a power gap in the lineup now.

I liked him more a few years ago than I do now. But....Glaus needed to go. Though I hope we didn't truly pay them $2m to send him on his way.

[Crapshoot]

I think its a win for Toronto -Roy Halladay, Burnett, and the rest of the pitching staff will notice the upgrade. Offensively, if Rolen's shoulder is decent, he's slightly worse - defensively, Rolen is possibly the best 3b of the last 20 years, and I like the Jays making the move.

[Atocep]

I also like Rolen more as a player, but his injury is a bigger risk. He has an arthritic condition in the shoulder and its a matter of when, not if, it bothers him again.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/...m_and_certain/

There's a lot this guy says that I agree with.

Me as well.

More food for thought from Joe Posnanski: http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008...asik-training/

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Watching a bit of the hearings this morning, Donald Fehr sounds like a completely different person. None of the "all of these things need to be collectively bargained" crap that he was trying to pull last time. He's actually answering questions and seems open to suggestions.

I'm sure he'll revert to his usually weasely self as soon as he's not in front of Congress.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

In addition to getting Kotsay in return for Joey Devine & another prospect, the Braves also made another move this week as they announce that their AAA affiliate will be moved from Richmond to Gwinnett County, GA in 2009. The move will swap what seems to be considered one of the worst facilities in AAA for a brand new $38 million dollar facility that's just a half hour up the interstate from Turner Field.

http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sp...swhy_0116.html

[miami_fan]

With the recent news about Tejada, does anybody believe that Rafael Palmeiro was actually telling the truth about his incident? I am not saying that Rafael Palmeiro told the truth but his explanation (receiving a tainted B12 shot from Tejada) seems a lot more plausible now than it did three years ago. My reason for asking has to do with the HOF. Yes, he is responsible for what goes into his body. But IF Palmeiro is telling the truth, should he be kept out of the HOF under those circumstances?

[terpkristin]

Juan Encarnacion likely out for 2008 season. I guess it's not a surprise, but wow, what an injury.

/tk

[Toddzilla]

The Cubs signed John Lieber, back for his second tour. A pretty low-risk investment IMO, as he's a perfectly suitable #4 or #5 starter.

[molson]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

With the recent news about Tejada, does anybody believe that Rafael Palmeiro was actually telling the truth about his incident? I am not saying that Rafael Palmeiro told the truth but his explanation (receiving a tainted B12 shot from Tejada) seems a lot more plausible now than it did three years ago. My reason for asking has to do with the HOF. Yes, he is responsible for what goes into his body. But IF Palmeiro is telling the truth, should he be kept out of the HOF under those circumstances?

I find zero difference between "Hey sketchy trainer, shoot me up with steroids", and "hey sketchy trainer that I know is involved in steroids, shoot me up something, I won't ask what, but I want it to help my career".

I honestly don't know about the HOF situation - but Palmerio absolutely shouldn't be looked at any more favorably if it's believed he just didn't know exactly what he was doing.

It's a strict liability offense, it has to be or all the steroid testing in the world is meaningless if you're less guilty under a "wink nod" agreement.

[Atocep]

B-12 shots require a prescription, if I'm not mistaken. Why on earth would Palmeiro go to Tejada to get one?

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by Atocep

B-12 shots require a prescription, if I'm not mistaken. Why on earth would Palmeiro go to Tejada to get one?

To a previous point in this thread I mentioned (and Izulde followed-up on), unless you have a B-12 uptake issue or some disorder that requires you have super-high doses of it, why would you inject B-12 in the first place instead of taking it in a pill?

/tk

[Crapshoot]

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/...juan_gonzalez/

Spectacular. Seriously.

[stevew]

lol, that was good.

[MikeVic]

Haha.

[sterlingice]

I think Posnanski's articles in the KC Star have gone down a lot since he's splitting time (and creative energy) with his blog. But here's a blog entry that definitely should have been in the paper and really does encapsulate cheering for the Royals:

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008...-santana-race/

Royals leading Santana Race?

January 24th, 2008 · 67 Comments

OK, so here’s the rub: I’m flat sick and tired of going on Baseball Think Factory or one of the other baseball Web sites every other day and reading some headline that says: “Red Sox Back in Santana Derby,” or “Don’t Count Out Yankees In Race For Santana” or “Mets Take Santana Lead.” First off, you can’t take a “lead” when it comes to a trade. This isn’t NASCAR. You don’t get points for leading a lap. Some team may trade for Santana, or maybe not, but one thing is certain: There won’t be a second place. And no team will get even one scoreless inning because they “led” the Santana race in December.

But that’s not my real problem here. No, my real problem is that whenever there’s something enormous like this going on in baseball — some gigantic free agency deal or some monster trade involving the best pitcher in baseball — the Kansas City Royals might as well be playing Major League Soccer. I’m not just saying that the Royals are not involved. I’m saying they are a MILLION MILES AWAY from being involved. I’m saying they are more likely to pick up Carlos Santana or Johann Sebastian Bach or some other play off the guy’s name. I’m saying Royals fans — and probably from from 10 or 15 other teams out there — realize that they are playing a different game.

And no, I’m not trying to rehash the whole big market, small market, luxury tax, where does the revenue sharing money go mess — no. The smartest teams can compete with the big guys — that whole discussion is so 1997. No, I’m simply talking plain fan emotion. Offseasons have become more and more depressing. The other day, Bud Selig was talking about how on September 1 of last year, fans could look at the standings and see that 19 out of 30 teams were in contention for a playoff spot of some kind. It should be noted that the claim is pretty suspect — the 19 counts Cincinnati, Houston and Minnesota who were sort of, vaguely, mathematically clinging for dear life in the Wildcard Race, even though the teams themselves were quite aware than they were dead. Plus, as mentioned here, the Wildcard sucks.

But the point the Commissioner was trying to make was that competitive balance is stronger now than it has been in years. I don’t really see it — in the American League, it still looks like an awful lot of Yankees, Angels and Red Sox with Detroit now stockpiling weapons — but maybe he’s right. Maybe the season is somewhat more competitive. The offseason is not. Pretty much the best you can hope to do if you are Kansas City, Cincinnati, Tampa, Milwaukee and a bunch of other places, it seems to me, is vastly overpay for the Yankees and Red Sox rejected pile of applicants. Then hope for the best.

For instance: Everyone here knows I didn’t like the Jose Guillen signing, mostly because I just have this hunch that his numbers will fall pretty rapidly. But I also am fully aware that the Royals first tried to vastly overpay Torii Hunter and Andruw Jones, who were (I guess) the valedictorians of the free agent outfield class. The Royals came very close to signing Hunter, but then the Angels simply did their Thurston B. Howell, “No, I’ll offer you a hundred billion for the last coconut” bit, and Hunter was gone. Andruw Jones had a different situation, but he’s similar in that the Royals offered a lot of money and could not land him.

And so, in that context, yeah, Jose Guillen was the next-best thing out there. He has been a pretty good hitter, after all. So that’s the deal in Kansas City: You are left hoping that the third-best free outfield free agent — the one you just gave $12 million to after his previous team let him go rather than pick up a $9 million option — will turn out well. He might. And he is better than anything the Royals had before.

But that’s not exactly as much fun as wondering where you stand in the flurry to pick up Johan Santana. Come to think of it, that’s really not much fun at all. Like I said before, it’s not that the Royals are not able to trade for Santa. It’s NOT EVEN THE SLIGHTEST POSSIBILITY. It’s like playing in a crooked fantasy baseball league or something.

So you know what? Forget all that. Royals fans deserve to be in the discussion — hey, Kansas City is a major league town too. So I decided to write my own, “Hey, now the Royals are in the Santana chase,” story. I got to Royals general manager Dayton Moore and asked, “Hey, why can’t you guys go get Johan Santana?”

He responded, basically, by suggesting that was not exactly one of the world’s great questions.

But you will notice … that’s not a denial. Am I right or am I right?

So here’s my story:

KANSAS CITY — Kansas City Royals general manager Dayton Moore on Wednesday did not deny that his team is very close to completing a trade for Minnesota Twins ace Johan Santana.

“That’s a ridiculous question,” he said, when asked why his team just didn’t go out and trade for Santana.

Santana won Cy Young Awards in 2004 and 2006 and is widely regarded as the best pitcher in the game. His presence in the Royals rotation would give them their first true ace since Kevin Appier in the 1990s. it is widely believed among baseball sources that if the Royals had a rotation featuring Johan Santana, Gil Meche, Brian Bannister and Zack Greinke, they would be better than they have been the last few years.

Over the last few weeks, several teams — in particular the New York Yankees, Mets and Boston Red Sox — have been rumored to be close to acquiring Santana, so it would be quite a coup for the “small-market” Royals to beat them to the bunch. As one scout who would prefer to remain anonymous said on Tuesday when first told about this potential Santana-to-the-Royals trade, “Are you drinking and taking medication at the same time?”

Santana would be a very likely candidate to break a few somewhat disheartening trends for Royals starters:

1. The Royals have not had an 18-game winner in 15 years. Santana has won more than 18 twice.
2. The Royals have not had a pitcher strike out 160 batters in a season since 1997. Santana has struck out more than 200 batters each of the last four seasons.
3. He would not suck, as many Royals starters have over the last decade-plus.

Commissioner Bud Selig was not available for comment about this potential trade, but two days earlier, when speaking to the St. Louis Baseball Writers Dinner, he did say that competitive balance in baseball was at an all-time high and that he expected the game to only get more balanced. This would prove that point, wouldn’t it? Selig also announced publicly, without any prodding at all, that baseball is popular.

SI

[molson]

I used to really be annoyed by the competitive balance issues in baseball but maybe since I've given up, I've changed my mind and don't care anymore. Why are Kansas City and Pittsburgh entitled to what they can't afford? I'd rather just see the less competitive teams contracted or moved to bigger cities with existing teams.

[Terps]

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.co...oing_down.html

Adam Jones Quote:

On the actual deal itself: "(Bill Bavasi) called me yesterday and told me the news. I've got to go to Baltimore tomorrow morning and handle things there. I'm the centerpiece of the deal on the Mariners side. It's an honor to get traded for such a highly talented pitcher as Bedard is. He's one of the best. Last year he finished up as arguably one of the top candidates for the Cy Young. He's that good, so for me it's an honor. You know, I like Seattle, but if I am in Baltimore, as I think now I am, I'm going to embrace it and have the best time of my life in Major League Baseball."

[MikeVic]

No! The Jays need him!!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by molson

I used to really be annoyed by the competitive balance issues in baseball but maybe since I've given up, I've changed my mind and don't care anymore. Why are Kansas City and Pittsburgh entitled to what they can't afford? I'd rather just see the less competitive teams contracted or moved to bigger cities with existing teams.

Dear molson,

We agree. Parody in sports leagues simply doesn't work.

Sincerely,

The 30 filthy rich owners in the NFL

[ISiddiqui]

Who are the 2 who aren't filthy rich?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Who are the 2 who aren't filthy rich?

You and I.

30....32......there's plenty to go around.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Dear molson,

We agree. Parody in sports leagues simply doesn't work.

Sincerely,

The 30 filthy rich owners in the NFL

I didn't say it didn't work, I just don't think it's possible in MLB so lets give up already and get rid of the small market teams.

The NFL has a single-entity TV contract. End of story. The Yankees TV contract is worth about a billion times what the Royals TV contact is worth. Do you think the NY Giants would gladly give up that kind of money to keep the Cheifs competitive? Or agree to a salary cap that limits their success with that kind of advantage?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Terps

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.co...oing_down.html

Sounds like the deal hasn't been officially signed-off yet by Angelos, but it's pretty likely to go down. Most rumors are saying OF Adam Jones, LHP George Sherrill, RHP Chris Tillman and either LHP Tony Butler and/or RHP Kameron Mickolio.

From an M's perspective, this deal bums me out. Bedard is a stud, no questions. But he's only under club control for 2 more years and seems determined to test free agency. He has good mechanics from what I've seen, but he still seems to get nagging injuries (strained oblique, stiff neck) that have so far kept him from recording 200 IP in a season. He was awesome last season, and it may well be his breakout into regular stardom, but it might also be somewhat of a fluke.

And while Bedard is awesome, he's not awesome enough to turn the M's into serious contenders for 2008. I think between Boston, New York, Cleveland and Detroit the AL Wild Card is pretty much out of reach, so the question is can the M's catch the Angels? Well, while the M's won 88 games last year, the Pythagorean Method shows they should've won only 79. Of course, studies have shown that things like strong bullpens and lineup consistency tend to result in better than expected win results compared to the Pythagorean Method and the M's had both. But this is still a team that 6 back of the Angels, and by Pythagoras was 11 back.

Bedard will certainly help the team, and will give them a pretty good rotation overall. But in the process they give up a very talented young OF who himself was going to improve the team in Adam Jones. With Jones gone that almost guarantees that Raul Ibanez stays in LF. While his bat remains pretty good, his defense is so awful that he gives away most of his hitting value with his brutal glove. Jones on the other hand projects as a very good defensive OFer and an average to above-average hitter now (and potentially a significantly above-average hitter in the future) who is under club control for 6 more years.

Add in George Sherrill who cemented himself as one of the best lefty bullpen pitchers in the game last year, not just as a LOOGY but as a strue all-around setup guy and the M's weaken what had been a strength last season (their bullpen). Not to mention, one of the low-cost replacement candidates for the 'pen was Kam Mickolio, who may also be in the deal. Does the value that Bedard adds outweigh losing all those guys? Very likely not enough to allow the M's to catch the Angels.

It'll be a lot of fun watching Bedard pitch for Seattle, but this isn't a good trade for the M's, either now or in the long run.

[TroyF]

I just read a story on ESPN that I can't stop laughing about. Here is the first line of the story:

Brandon Inge is angry the Detroit Tigers acquired Miguel Cabrera to replace him at third base.

Ummmm, OK, so you are angry they traded for Cabrera. Let's see what you did last year:

150k in 151 games
.236 batting average
.313 OBP
.376 SLG
Post All Star - .223, .280, .326

ummmm, ok Brandon. You made 4.6 million last year to do that and I think you are due to make 6 this year. Might be a good idea to hit the ball better so you can play, don't you think?

[ISiddiqui]

Inge should be lucky that he's being paid that much to be a defensive replacement (and he is a great defensive 3B, but that's ALL he is).

[JPhillips]

It appears that the Bedard deal is on hold pending Angelos' approval and according to Rosenthal, may get vetoed.

[CraigSca]

If this occurs, and I was McPhail, I'd resign. How can one do one's job when the owner vetoes the majority of your moves?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It appears that the Bedard deal is on hold pending Angelos' approval and according to Rosenthal, may get vetoed.

I hope Angelos vetoes it - I think the M's are paying too much.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I hope Angelos vetoes it - I think the M's are paying too much.

I would have a hell of a hard time giving Adam Jones up for anyone. I'm betting Angelos vetoes this, though.