Soccer Thread 2007-08 {R}

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

Paraphrasing isn't allowed, but being a complete and total dick is fine?

You didn't paraphrase.

You said "YOU and your comrades" and then followed it up by saying something he never said. In fact, he stated the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you claime he had said.

Sorry, when you don't bother to read the other person's post and say they said something they didn't, you can expect them to fire back with some degree of anger.

It's my personal pet peeve on message boards. Criticize me if you want, I can deal with it. But damnit, I took the time and effort to write it, the least you can do is read it and respond to what I said.

As for Arsneal, I was dissapointed about last week's game. You are going to lose sometime, but that was a tough one to take with the late December schedule being as crazy as it is. They should have taken the three points there. I expect they'll play much better against Chelsea. But you can play better against Chelsea and still lose points. We'll see what happens this weekend.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by TroyF

You didn't paraphrase.

You said "YOU and your comrades" and then followed it up by saying something he never said. In fact, he stated the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you claime he had said.

Sorry, when you don't bother to read the other person's post and say they said something they didn't, you can expect them to fire back with some degree of anger.

It's my personal pet peeve on message boards. Criticize me if you want, I can deal with it. But damnit, I took the time and effort to write it, the least you can do is read it and respond to what I said.

As for Arsneal, I was dissapointed about last week's game. You are going to lose sometime, but that was a tough one to take with the late December schedule being as crazy as it is. They should have taken the three points there. I expect they'll play much better against Chelsea. But you can play better against Chelsea and still lose points. We'll see what happens this weekend.

Again,

Even moreso, I don't think it's much of a leap to assume that someone who wrote 2000 angry words on this board alone over Arsenal's first loss all season would be the same person who flipped out over Henry this summer.

Now how hard is it so write, "I didn't say that," instead of what's above? We're talking about something six months old. My response would have been, "My bad." Instead my response is, "Go fuck yourself."

Regarding Arsenal v Boro, how is it hard to understand that when a highly rated team is tired/flat/missing several regulars/away and the opponent is motivated/rested/playing without pressure/at home that an upset is possible if not likely? It happens in every sport every day.

[Cringer]

I say we go to a shootout to decide this.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

Again,
Now how hard is it so write, "I didn't say that," instead of what's above? We're talking about something six months old. My response would have been, "My bad." Instead my response is, "Go fuck yourself."

But he did say "I didn't say that". In fact, he said it in the post you initially responded to - before you'd even accused him of saying it.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

Again,

Even moreso, I don't think it's much of a leap to assume that someone who wrote 2000 angry words on this board alone over Arsenal's first loss all season would be the same person who flipped out over Henry this summer.

Now how hard is it so write, "I didn't say that," instead of what's above? We're talking about something six months old. My response would have been, "My bad." Instead my response is, "Go fuck yourself."

Regarding Arsenal v Boro, how is it hard to understand that when a highly rated team is tired/flat/missing several regulars/away and the opponent is motivated/rested/playing without pressure/at home that an upset is possible if not likely? It happens in every sport every day.

I'll only comment on the upset portion, on the rest I think you are a fool and he responded the same way I would have.

Neither him or me are saying the loss was devastating. Or that it wasn't understandable. Or that it doesn't happen sometimes. We get it, we know.

It's still dissapointing. Arsenal has a brutal December schedule. This won't be the last game they lose in December. With that in mind, you'd like to see the players have taken this one a bit more seriously. The margain for error in the EPL is low. It's not good to be a contender and drop points to a team that hasn't won in a dozen games. It was a "bad" loss. And it's that type of loss that could come back to bite them if the race ends close.

[daedalus]

thanks, troy and katon.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I say we go to a shootout to decide this.

only if matthijs doesn't get involved.

was that a low blow?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by daedalus

1 - i don't care if they play chelsea or the little sisters of the poor next. i don't know the fucking schedule, i don't pay attention to it. if you cannot comprehend why being out-efforted by a relegation team is a negative thing, i don't know that there's much i can do to get you past that.

Pathetic Boro fan..."technically, we're outside of the drop zone at the moment."

(goes off to bawl in a dark corner somewhere...)

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Pathetic Boro fan..."technically, we're outside of the drop zone at the moment."

The Arsenal game may turn out to be bad for Middlesbrough too, they may end up being stuck with Southgate until it's too late now.

Maybe he should have got those coaching qualifications after all.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Critch

The Arsenal game may turn out to be bad for Middlesbrough too, they may end up being stuck with Southgate until it's too late now.

Maybe he should have got those coaching qualifications after all.

Maybe we'll lure McClaren back...lol

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Maybe we'll lure McClaren back...lol

Good point, things could be worse

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Pathetic Boro fan..."technically, we're outside of the drop zone at the moment."

(goes off to bawl in a dark corner somewhere...)

mea culpa. that was meant to be "relegation battling team". i was expending a bit of an effort controlling my, ahem, upset at the time.

[yes, that was the controlled version.]

Originally Posted by Critch

The Arsenal game may turn out to be bad for Middlesbrough too, they may end up being stuck with Southgate until it's too late now.

Maybe he should have got those coaching qualifications after all.

has southgate disappointed? i haven't followed 'boro very much in recent years.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by daedalus

mea culpa. that was meant to be "relegation battling team". i was expending a bit of an effort controlling my, ahem, upset at the time.

[yes, that was the controlled version.]has southgate disappointed? i haven't followed 'boro very much in recent years.

I don't know that Southgate has done all that bad considering his experience level, but honestly, management made a mistake going with a rookie (if beloved hometown hero) boss. It would be like being UCLA and hiring Troy Aikman right after his pro career ended. Sure, he seems smart enough to pull it off in the long run, but first year? At the sport's highest level (or definitely one of them)? Unlikely.

I think the most damning issues have been with the team's consistency. It can't seem to play good at either end of the pitch for any long stretch. I mean, usually even bad coaches will be solid scoring or solid in the back. But Boro have alternated between scoring in bunches (last year, I called it the "Viduka Effect") and playing tough defenses (but rarely in the same game, and doing poorly at both ends far more often than doing well at both ends).

Then there is the chemistry and personnel acquisition issues. The chemistry issues are apparent when Viduka gets treated as he was out the door, and two years ago, fan fave Juninho gets shipped out without fanfare, and the issues with Schwarzer this past offseason. And the Yakubu dealings at the deadline, too. There aren't a lot of "teamers" on the squad, or haven't been, which is ironic, considering Southgate was a very solid skipper and teammate as a player. As for the personnel moves, besides getting into a corner with the Yakubu deal and leaving himself short up front with letting Viduka go, Southgate just hasn't really done very well in getting players to come to Riverside, even though the board seems more than willing to spend a bit.

And then there are the injuries. This I don't know to what to attribute. It has been going on since the McClaren days. This side has just been snakebit with injuries. I mean, their training staff has to be complete shite with all the injuries that have happened. To what extent that is bad luck and what is poor training skill, facilities or practice methods, I couldn't tell you.

Southgate should have been a #2 next to a solid, experienced older manager, and then taken over a few years down the road. And now we might get ourselves relegated if we don't pull ourselves out.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by daedalus

only if matthijs doesn't get involved.

was that a low blow?

Kinda hard to deny our track record as penalty kick takers.

That said, I'm quite confident I'm one of the most experienced penalty kicks takers of FOFC.

[Critch]

BBC says that Fabio Capello will become the new England manager later today. Interesting choice, he's well known for effective but boring teams plus he speaks very little English. Wonder how their press will react if he doesn't instantly turn the team around.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by daedalus

has southgate disappointed? i haven't followed 'boro very much in recent years.

Three draws and seven defeats in the last 10 league games had got Middlesbrough down to the relegation zone and got Southgate mentioned as a manager only a defeat or two away from the sack.

Spending 6mil pounds on an injured Huth and another 6 on Mido didn't win him a lot of fans either.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Critch

Three draws and seven defeats in the last 10 league games had got Middlesbrough down to the relegation zone and got Southgate mentioned as a manager only a defeat or two away from the sack.

apparently we saved more than a few english coaches' jobs during this past week.

Originally Posted by Critch

Spending 6mil pounds on an injured Huth and another 6 on Mido didn't win him a lot of fans either.

ouch. i wouldn't sign mido on a free.

on the other hand, i'd thought huth to be a good signing. has he performed badly or just been injured a lot?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by daedalus

apparently we saved more than a few english coaches' jobs during this past week. ouch. i wouldn't sign mido on a free.

on the other hand, i'd thought huth to be a good signing. has he performed badly or just been injured a lot?

If you look early in this very thread, I believe, you will see my opinion of the Mido acquisition. I was against it from the start.

As for Huth (and Woodgate), I am with you, thought it was a solid purchase. If Southgate erred there, it is in getting two such oft-injured centre backs without proper quality coverage. But this is where the injury issues have really hurt us. Before we got Huth and Woodgate, Ugo Ehiogu (no longer with team) and Chris Riggott didn't get hurt much. Now Riggott is hurt all the time (along with Huth and Woodgate), Ugo is a distant memory (missed two seasons with injury and now not even sure he's still playing with anyone), and of course our best backup CB is our manager--and he no longer plays.

Huth has been inconsistent, but I think a lot of that is simply being injured all the time hurts his ability to step up his game. Plus, he's still very young. Good centrebacks take a long time to really get good at what they do.

[Critch]

Yeah, Huth's main problem has been that he's been injured for most of his time at Middlesbrough, but he was injured before they signed him so Southgate still gets the blame. Huth failed his medical at Middlesbrough due to ankle problems, but they pushed ahead with the transfer anyway and gave Chelsea 6mil for a centerback with one good leg.

[Cringer]

Looks like Kansas City may get it's soccer stadium. It's not a sure thing yet, one more hurdle but it sounds like the right politicians have been paid off to get it through. Congrats to them. I really like seeing soccer only stadiums being built in this country for the MLS teams, it is just a huge step forward IMO.

hxxp://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20071213&content_id=133007&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

KANSAS CITY -- It was a hat trick for the Kansas City Wizards and OnGoal, LLC on Thursday, as the club and their ownership group added a soccer-specific stadium to their list of successes in 2007. The long sought dream took a giant leap forward when the Kansas City, Mo. city council voted unanimously to approve the Three Trails development project formed by Lane4 Property Group.
Though not fully out of the woods, the announcement was a massive victory that paves the way for the 18,500-seat stadium that will be part of new destination point in south Kansas City. The last obstacle is a piece of the financing plan for Three Trails, which will be reviewed by the state in the near future. It includes about $30.8 million in state tax increment financing and tax credits. Government officials in attendance vowed their support to help get the state funding approved before Jan. 31, 2008.

The city council's approval came one day after Mayor Mark Funkhouser's initial trepidations about the "Super TIF" part of the deal were smoothed over and the Kansas City Finance and Audit Committee unanimously recommended approval to the full city council.

The $949 million project calls for the closed Bannister Mall and the surrounding Benjamin Plaza shopping center to be replaced by the stadium, a 12-field tournament-style soccer complex, a 250-room hotel, up to 1.1 million square feet of retail space and up to 1.7 million square feet of office space in the 467-acre area. The plan also calls for creating a $10 million neighborhood benefit district, with $2 million advanced up front by the developer, which would provide grants, loans and other assistance for commercial and residential property owners near the development site.


New Wizards Stadium
Articles
• Wizards' new stadium plan passes
• Fans, club elated after stadium vote

Multimedia
Stadium renderings

K.C. Wizards gear
Stock up now

K.C. Wizards tickets
2008 season tickets


"We're going to approve the super TIF because we need state participation in this," Funkhouser said Wednesday to The Kansas City Star, acknowledging that the state of Missouri would not supply financial aid without the super TIF. "I support this. It's an enormously beneficial project."

For OnGoal and the Wizards, Thursday's subsequent approval victory caps off a year that saw the opening of the Wizards multi-million dollar training facility in nearby Swope Park and a return to the MLS Cup Playoffs after a two-year absence. Achieving the goal is especially rewarding since the purchase of the club from Hunt Sports Group was contingent on the new owners having a doable stadium plan in place. Despite a failing a year ago to gain voter approval in the first step to building in Olathe, Kansas, OnGoal persisted.

"It's an incredibly exciting day. This is the culmination, for some of us, of a four-year ordeal. From the time Lamar Hunt put the team up for sale until just 15 minutes ago, the future of the team was in Kansas City was in doubt." said Wizards executive vice president Greg Cotton. "This is a huge step for not only Kansas City and the fans of the Wizards, but the fans of Major League Soccer who didn't want to see a great soccer city like Kansas City lose its team."

"What Lamar taught us is that you need to have soccer specific aspects to have your franchise healthy, and we have a plan in place to make that happen. We're thrilled. I hope Lamar is up there smiling today," said Wizards president Robb Heineman.

The Bannister location is a prime spot for the Wizards in visibility and viability. Three major highways intersect nearby and 1.1 million people live within a 20-minute drive, and the many people in support of the project amidst the overflow crowd confirmed their interest.

The state hurdle remains, but Heineman was optimistic.

"We have to get through the state process, and based on the response we got from the reps, we think everything is going to go well," he said. "We need to move forward. We need to get into the stadium in the spring of 2010, so we need to start as soon as possible."

Groundbreaking for the stadium is still a ways off, but it's tantalizingly close, closer than ever.

"We can't physically get everything going until probably by [Jan. 31]. We still have to do a pretty large demolition project before we can start digging," said Heineman. "But our intent would be to start digging the stadium sometime in the September time frame."

[Big Fo]

Another year, another victory at Anfield.

[Big Fo]

One of my favorite players in the history of the sport and possibly the best left back of all time, Paolo Maldini, announced that he will retire at the end of the season after Milan defeated Boca Juniors 4-2 in the World Club Cup final.

Seven Serie A titles and an amazing five Champions League wins alongside 126 caps for Italy, what an amazing career.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Another year, another victory at Anfield.

Time to stop talking about the Big Four in England and admit it's just a Big Three.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Who finished third last year? Year before that?

21 points back. When did Liverpool last actually challenge for the league title? The other three have challenged even if Liverpool occasionally finish above one of them.

Since Liverpool last won the league Man Utd have won it 9 times, Arsenal 4 times and Chelsea twice, the three of them have been challenging for titles. Liverpool have finished in the top 2 once in the last 16 season.

[Big Fo]

Damn, Arsenal holds on to defeat Chelsea, I was hoping for a draw in that one.

With Drogba out for awhile yet and Liverpool simply not good enough you could say it's looking like a two-horse race yet again.

[Katon]

No kidding - any non-Drogba front three we put out seems to be guaranteed to miss at least one complete sitter per game. Tough to win a title like that.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Critch

21 points back. When did Liverpool last actually challenge for the league title? The other three have challenged even if Liverpool occasionally finish above one of them.

Since Liverpool last won the league Man Utd have won it 9 times, Arsenal 4 times and Chelsea twice, the three of them have been challenging for titles. Liverpool have finished in the top 2 once in the last 16 season.

i don't follow liverpool enough to know so this is for my own curiosity . . .

is it benitez's style (the tinkering? the more continental style of play?) that is leaving them short in league? is the same thing why they remain so successful in champion's league play?

admittedly, though, losing to manchester united *right now* is nothing really to be ashamed of. it's a great lineup that's playing good football at the moment.

i would, of course, still prefer to beat them bitches.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Damn, Arsenal holds on to defeat Chelsea, I was hoping for a draw in that one.

With Drogba out for awhile yet and Liverpool simply not good enough you could say it's looking like a two-horse race yet again.

going to have to torrent the game but i just have to ask after reading the sky report . . .

is terry really hurt because of an eboue challenge? i am seriously getting sick of him and hope he gets sold soon. i really do not care if he is good or not, i really do not want somebody like this in our lineup. hell, on our squad.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by daedalus

i don't follow liverpool enough to know so this is for my own curiosity . . .

is it benitez's style (the tinkering? the more continental style of play?) that is leaving them short in league? is the same thing why they remain so successful in champion's league play?

admittedly, though, losing to manchester united *right now* is nothing really to be ashamed of. it's a great lineup that's playing good football at the moment.

i would, of course, still prefer to beat them bitches.

Benitez is a good manager, Liverpool have a few stars but just not enough really good players overall to compete for the league.

Maybe I'm biased but you look at the two lineups today and Manchester United are better at almost every position IMO.

Players like Sissoko, Kewell, Pennant, Kuyt, Bennayoun, Crouch, Riise, Hyypia are good squad players for a Champions League place type team but not as key contributors to a title winning squad.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by daedalus

going to have to torrent the game but i just have to ask after reading the sky report . . .

is terry really hurt because of an eboue challenge? i am seriously getting sick of him and hope he gets sold soon. i really do not care if he is good or not, i really do not want somebody like this in our lineup. hell, on our squad.

Yes, Eboue caught him.

It was a REAL chippy game. I guess that can be expected, but there were guys from both sides who acted like complete dirtballs this game.

Terry took a cheat foul on Cesc that was a yellow card and could have gashed his leg wide open had the spikes hit higher. Joe Cole was lucky not to get a red after he crashed into Sagna after losing a ball. Sagna went off on a stretcher. Flamini made a cheap tackle on Joe Cole from behind. Cecs dove twice and then overacted a strike to the face by Ashely Cole. Ashley of course made the strike to the throat and face to begin with, something the ref missed and should have been a yellow.

If the ref had handed out 4 or 5 red cards, I don't think either side really would have had a complaint.

Gallas got away with a push off on the lone goal, but Cech simply mistimed the ball. He made a ton of great saves late, but that mistake cost Chelsea the game. Without Drogba, I have no idea how Chelsea is going to score most weeks. They need to make a big splash in the mid year transfer market for some striking help or they have no chance in the EPL IMHO.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by TroyF

If the ref had handed out 4 or 5 red cards, I don't think either side really would have had a complaint.

Yeah, one of those rare games where there were 10 yellow cards and you can't blame the ref for losing control. The ref actually did pretty well and could have handed out a whole lot more.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by daedalus

is it benitez's style (the tinkering? the more continental style of play?) that is leaving them short in league? is the same thing why they remain so successful in champion's league play?

I think it's partly due to benitez style as a 0-0 away is ok in Europe but will be dropped points in the league where the challengers need to win every week, and it's partly because they can afford to concentrate on Europe cos they're league challenge is dead by xmas most years.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Yes, Eboue caught him.

It was a REAL chippy game. I guess that can be expected, but there were guys from both sides who acted like complete dirtballs this game.

Terry took a cheat foul on Cesc that was a yellow card and could have gashed his leg wide open had the spikes hit higher. Joe Cole was lucky not to get a red after he crashed into Sagna after losing a ball. Sagna went off on a stretcher. Flamini made a cheap tackle on Joe Cole from behind. Cecs dove twice and then overacted a strike to the face by Ashely Cole. Ashley of course made the strike to the throat and face to begin with, something the ref missed and should have been a yellow.

If the ref had handed out 4 or 5 red cards, I don't think either side really would have had a complaint.

Gallas got away with a push off on the lone goal, but Cech simply mistimed the ball. He made a ton of great saves late, but that mistake cost Chelsea the game. Without Drogba, I have no idea how Chelsea is going to score most weeks. They need to make a big splash in the mid year transfer market for some striking help or they have no chance in the EPL IMHO.

while i still don't consider flamini a viable long term solution in the middle of a pitch for a top 4 team, i absolutely love the fact that he'll get stuck in there as soon as he feels that the other team is doing the physical stuff. especially to cesc. the example that always come to mind for me was oakley bodyguarding jordan back in the days.

j.cole was always a bad tackle waiting to happen. he could/should have been red carded in the manchester united game.

i've seen some overreaction from cesc from time to time. not often but i've seen it some. i hope that doesn't become a habit.

ugh. i really hope eboue move on soon. i don't mind a flamini-type "response" but i can't stand eboue's. it's . . . dirty.

[Chief Rum]

Not that anyone cares, but after the surprising win against the Gunners, Boro went out and beat Derby, too. So now after not winning anywhere sicne September, we have a two-match win streak.

[Big Fo]

Derby looks like one of the worst teams to play in the league in recent seasons. They have a goal differential of -33 while the two second worst teams have -16.

It's a shame that Benny Feilhaber isn't getting more playing time there, I mean whoever is in front of him can't be that good.

Sanli Tuncay is a good player, I figured Boro would rebound eventually, there's no way they should have been in the relegation zone like they were for awhile.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Derby looks like one of the worst teams to play in the league in recent seasons. They have a goal differential of -33 while the two second worst teams have -16.

It's a shame that Benny Feilhaber isn't getting more playing time there, I mean whoever is in front of him can't be that good.

Sanli Tuncay is a good player, I figured Boro would rebound eventually, there's no way they should have been in the relegation zone like they were for awhile.

I agree about the crapitude of Derby, although I'm not turning down the points.

Tuncay is very good. Only unquestionably solid signing we made in the offseason. I think Boro is a midtable talent squad at worst. But coaching and injuries and momentum can have a huge effect and they have.

[-apoc-]

I thought it was a pretty good game overall and very much the expected atmosphere. These 2 teams do not like each other plain and simple.

First real talking point Terry going after Fabergas not a whole lot to talk about Terry rightly carded though I do think Lampard was unfairly carded he didnt seem to do anything wrong.

The next is one I dont think anyone is really talking about but in the around 31:30 I think Terry should have seen a straight red card for kicking out. He and Adebayor are fighting for the ball and Ade fouls him and then falls down over him. Eboue is coming up and Terry swipes at him with his leg making slight contact with him. Eboue for once doesnt act like hes been shot and just walks away from it. Think of Gilberto and Savage last season when Gilberto was sent off seemed really similiar.

Terry injury was unfortunate but I didnt see a whole lot of intent in the challenge. Yes he left his foot in and it was a yellow card but the ball was there to be won originally and there was a block to make.

J. Cole vs Eboue should have been a straight red same as him vs Man U. Someone made him look stupid he got pissed and went to take them out this time he succeded.

Fabegas v A. Cole Fabergas was lucky to avoid a straight red with the scissor tackle not much else to say about that one except Cole may be punished since he did try to "choke" Fabergas and didnt get punished for that.

[Big Fo]

Holy crap, Fabio Capello's contract is £6.5million per year, that's Phil Jackson territory.

[daedalus]

just want to memorialize this: alexander song (billong) -- MotM.

anybody not related to mr song who claims to have foreseen that particular phrase has to be smoking something.

please share.

[daedalus]

the kids and dudu -- who's still working on establishing himself at the grove -- took on and put down the first team of a bunch of thugs masquerading as a premiership squad. rawr.

i officially despise fucking blackburn. now, spuds and united are both fierce rivals and, of course, beating them is always of utmost importance. chelsea, for they are the other evil empire also belongs in this category. on the other hand, blackburn and mark fucking hughes generate only hatred. unlike, say, a derby, they have a good core of very talented and skilled players -- roque santa cruz, mccarthy, pedersen, bentley, dunn -- and could probably play legitimate football with anyone. on the other hand, they insist on taking their team personality from that douchebag savage -- and bentley seems to be cut from the same mold -- and just play thug ball. the only approximation i can think of was chuck daly's pistons.

seriously fucking pathetic.

and our kids STILL kicked their ass.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by -apoc-

I thought it was a pretty good game overall and very much the expected atmosphere. These 2 teams do not like each other plain and simple.

First real talking point Terry going after Fabergas not a whole lot to talk about Terry rightly carded though I do think Lampard was unfairly carded he didnt seem to do anything wrong.

The next is one I dont think anyone is really talking about but in the around 31:30 I think Terry should have seen a straight red card for kicking out. He and Adebayor are fighting for the ball and Ade fouls him and then falls down over him. Eboue is coming up and Terry swipes at him with his leg making slight contact with him. Eboue for once doesnt act like hes been shot and just walks away from it. Think of Gilberto and Savage last season when Gilberto was sent off seemed really similiar.

Terry injury was unfortunate but I didnt see a whole lot of intent in the challenge. Yes he left his foot in and it was a yellow card but the ball was there to be won originally and there was a block to make.

J. Cole vs Eboue should have been a straight red same as him vs Man U. Someone made him look stupid he got pissed and went to take them out this time he succeded.

Fabegas v A. Cole Fabergas was lucky to avoid a straight red with the scissor tackle not much else to say about that one except Cole may be punished since he did try to "choke" Fabergas and didnt get punished for that.

I agree with most everything here outside of the Terry vs. Fabergas collision. That was a cheap, dirty play by Terry. I didn't see any intent for the ball and he slid feet first into a falling Cecs. If Cecs falls a little differently, his legs would have been gashed by the spikes.

No way I could agree more with you on the J. Cole incident. That's a straight red if I've ever seen it. I think you could also call the Flamini on Joe Cole a straight red too. He only ended up nicking him, but the intent was far worse.

Still, all in all, I thought the ref did what he could to keep the game in control without deciding the game with his cards.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by daedalus

and our kids STILL kicked their ass.

Thug ball? Sure Blackburn play it rough but none of them went out to intentionally injure an opponent like Denilson did. Two footed lunge at an opponents ankle in the last minute was disgraceful. Savage may throw himself around, but he's only ever been sent off once and doesnt go out to break ankles.

The game ended with Arsenal on 4 bookings and a sending off, Blackburn on 4 bookings. Following on from the game v Chelsea, Arsenal are showing a real petulant side.

One other thing to note is that the Arsenal starting 11 cost as much to assemble as the Blackburn first team, it's more a display of what cash can buy than some confirmation of wenger's genius with finding young players.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Critch

Thug ball? Sure Blackburn play it rough but none of them went out to intentionally injure an opponent like Denilson did. Two footed lunge at an opponents ankle in the last minute was disgraceful. Savage may throw himself around, but he's only ever been sent off once and doesnt go out to break ankles.

you and i must be watching different blackburn teams. or you could be one of those folks who felt that chuck daly's pistons were simply a "physical team". either way. one of the proudest game of the season [that i got to watch at least] was the blackburn game where we finally gave as good as we got. for years, i've watch savage and blackburn kick the hell out of us and our squad turning into shrinking fucking violets. and that shit got old. i want to watch football, not who can tolerate being kicked better. i'd switch channel and watch MMA if i wanted to watch people beat each other.

i will freely admit to turning to the game too late to see the denilson challenge. the closest thing i got to seeing it was a brief replay in chinese or taiwanese or whatever was on TVAnts at the time so i'm not even sure it was the right replay. assuming i saw the correct replay, while i agree that it was decidedly clumsy, to term it a "two footed lunge at an opponents ankle" [we're usually on the wrong side of these so we have some familiarity with them, in case you're unfamiliar with our squad] when the ball was loose and both players were going after it is a bit dramatic, isn't it?

and you and i have to be watching different robbie savages.

Originally Posted by Critch

The game ended with Arsenal on 4 bookings and a sending off, Blackburn on 4 bookings. Following on from the game v Chelsea, Arsenal are showing a real petulant side.

based on these two games? hell, flamini wasn't even in the blackburn game. watch when flamini is in there. the minute he sees a hard tackle on somebody, you could just about time your watch for a flying flamster. [heh, sagna has been on the wrong side of the fabulous flying flamini at least 3 times that i saw this year.] i've even seen cesc with a hard tackle or two. in extra time of the blackburn game [which was the only part i got to watch live], diaby did some passable impression of a flying flamini.

eboue, on the other hand, is a little bitch and i can't wait for him to be off our squad.

Originally Posted by Critch

One other thing to note is that the Arsenal starting 11 cost as much to assemble as the Blackburn first team, it's more a display of what cash can buy than some confirmation of wenger's genius with finding young players.

hell, dudu alone probably cost as much as it did to assemble the blackburn first team.

on the other hand, there's probably as much cost sitting on the 'pool bench -- i won't even bring chelsea's into this -- to assemble the whole arsenal first team.

so what?

let's not waste time playing the game and just give the league to chelsea, man u and 'pool in that order since that's about how much spending has gone on [although chelsea disappointed this offseason with their failure to land daniel alves so they could drop to 3rd]. i think we beat spuds in spending so we can still be above them but citeh will probably have to take 4th -- or maybe even 3rd after winter! -- this season.

point is i have a crap load of respect for teams like derby, reading and birmingham. yeah, derby is getting beat good and will no doubt be back in the soda league. on the other hand, while they lack the kind of talent the big club has -- hell, arsenal's bench probably cost more to assemble than these squads -- they are trying to play football not just thug their way to a draw. everton is another team that wasn't expensively built and they're an outstanding squad. check that, an outstanding club in general -- what an amazing youth team production.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by daedalus

you and i must be watching different blackburn teams. or you could be one of those folks who felt that chuck daly's pistons were simply a "physical team".

To be honest I don't know who chuck daly is I just think that football has never been a non-contact game and Blackburn's tactics don't cross any line. They don't have the finance to compete that way with the big teams anymore, so they compete physically. In Hughes two full seasons there they have finished 6th and 10th, they're in 9th at the moment, so you can't argue with the relative success his system has brought. Personally I like watching them too.

Originally Posted by daedalus

assuming i saw the correct replay, while i agree that it was decidedly clumsy, to term it a "two footed lunge at an opponents ankle" [we're usually on the wrong side of these so we have some familiarity with them, in case you're unfamiliar with our squad] when the ball was loose and both players were going after it is a bit dramatic, isn't it?

I don't think you saw the correct replay then. Unfortunately the youtube link seems to have vanished, The Telegraph's report describes it as "Denilson's two-footed lunge at Dunn was unforgivable." so I don't think saying it was an attempt to injure an opponent is overly dramatic. It wasn't two players fighting for a loose ball.

Originally Posted by daedalus

and you and i have to be watching different robbie savages.

Yeah, he's the kind of players that opposing fans hate (not that I'm a Blackburn fan). Got to be impressed that he's had more yellow cards than any other EPL player, but has only been sent off once. Always in control and knows exactly what he's doing.

Originally Posted by daedalus

point is i have a crap load of respect for teams like derby, reading and birmingham.

I don't think much of Derby, they seem to have done the Sheff Utd thing of coming to the EPL to cash in before settling back into the Championship then they've fired the manager when he mentioned needing cash. No money spent and no ambition on being a new Wigan or Reading. Derby, Reading and Birmingham are all below Blackburn in the league, maybe they should play the big teams a bit rougher

[Critch]

FSC is a soccer bonanza today.

8am Chelsea v Aston Villa
10am Derby v Liverpool
12pm Everton v Bolton
2.30pm Portsmouth v Arsenal
5pm Birmingham v Middlesbrough.

What a great day to be home while my wife is at work.

Happy Boxing Day!

[daedalus]

just finished watching the spuds game.

although i thought their treatment of jol was wrong (chasing ramos while jol was still in the post) and their dismissal of him premature, getting somebody like juande ramos is friggin' brilliant. i am absolutely un-thrilled with that. i think they already have a lot of talent but when they get more of ramos' type of talents, they can be scary. i am curious at how well he will adapt. as i understand it, in spain, clubs usually have a director that deals with acquisitions while the manager manages where, in england, the manager often has the power over both. i don't know what ramos' set up was at sevilla, though.

disappointingly, they looked better in the first half. meh.

how in the hell did flamini not get a yellow in the first 15 minutes? he deserved it any way -- especially with that tackle on kaboul -- but, of all people to not have shown him the card . . . rob styles? that's like bob davidson not calling a balk.

stature-wise and, a little bit, how he plays, boateng reminded me of huddlestone a bit.

we should have gotten a penalty in the 62 (i think) minute. kaboul got nothing but rosicky's leg with his sweep (was a nice leg sweep, though).

that was a hell of a goal by berbatov. this was only the second time i have seen him play. he seems to be amazing technically -- righteous first touch -- but prone to disappear when he does not have the ball. the description that the setanta commentator used seems to fit: moody. reminds me of henry more than a little bit.

taking nothing away from rob styles' incompetency, that penalty call was the correct one. toure definitely got his leg on that.

on the topic of styles' incompetency, what the hell was up with tainio's yellow? that was an insanely soft yellow. of course, he made up for it by earning that yellow later. what a guy!

according to the announcers, huddlestone is no longer a regular? that is a shocker to me. in the earlier game against us, i thought he played quite well. (i thought he played well this game as well, once he came on.) if he is unwanted at white hart lane, i would not be oppose to have him follow campbell's footstep across town.

that was a nice game by o'hara, though. another arsenal trainee who left and has done well.

that was a heck of an effort by a very short-handed side. spuds deserved at least 1 point from that game, if not all 3. mind you, i am not arguing with getting the points. that team just deserved better for their effort, especially while so short-handed. i expect to see them back in contention soon. especially with juande ramos at the helm. ack, scary.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Critch

Barton has been charged with assault now, Newcastle might be starting the season with one of their star signings locked away at Her Majesty's pleasure.

And while awaiting trial for that assault, he's been arrested for assault again. This time he's been fighting outside a McDonalds after somebody goaded him about his brother being a convicted murderer, he'll miss at least the next two Newcastle games as he's been remanded in custody.

Not sure there's a more complete ass in world soccer.

[daedalus]

what? mike riley and his crew sucking? no! shocker!

only difference than usual is that it is not for manchester united as usual.

seriously, between uriah rennie, howard webb and this clown . . . yikes.

[Critch]

That was terrible.

How many decisions will the refs have to throw Chelsea's way to keep them in the running?

[Katon]

None at all, if United keep playing the way they did today. (and have we really been getting that lucky with decisions recently apart from this one?)

That was a truly ridiculous non-call, though.