2007-2008 NBA Regular Season Thread - Page 13

SirFozzie · 02-21-2008, 03:28 PM

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/feature...25~4&te=&cash=

The trade.

bulletsponge · 02-21-2008, 03:38 PM

wow, the cavs picked up a lot of dead overpaid weight with years left on thier contract

stevew · 02-21-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

wow, the cavs picked up a lot of dead overpaid weight with years left on thier contract

Also sums up exactly what they traded away as well. I think the new crap will be better than the old crap they gave away. There's less than 400k difference between Wallace and Hughes' 09/10 salaries. The cavs added a couple extra million next season, but got guys that should fit what they want to do a lot better.

Logan · 02-21-2008, 03:47 PM

Joe Smith is a solid role player.

korme · 02-21-2008, 04:05 PM

Gerald Green for Kirk Snyder

Groundhog · 02-21-2008, 05:04 PM

The Cavs trade isn't quite as good as I was hoping, probably because I had my heart set on Mike Miller, but overall I like it. Drew Gooden is one of those "boxscore" guys who, even when he has a nice game statistically, completely sucks ass in a variety of ways that don't show up on the box. Hughes has had some better games this year, but he's still Larry Hughes, and I'm surprised we were able to move him. The other guys are nothing that will be missed.

We bring on Ben Wallace who is certainly past it compared to his old self, but defensively he is still a billion times better the Rew Gooen. Wally is a shooter and lord knows we need those, and Delonte West is a guy who I've liked ever since he came in to the league. So basically, we didn't bring in the big name guy that I hoped we would, but the Cavs are a better team now than they were before the trade. Good enough to return to the Finals? Well, it'll still take a monster of a series by LeBron James, but if we could do it last year, then why not this year?

Brian Swartz · 02-21-2008, 05:11 PM

Since it hasn't been mentioned as the Cavs-Bulls-Sonics is the big trade, Spurs also got Kurt Thomas from Seattle for Brent Barry, Francisco Elson, and a 2009 pick. IMO this gives SA a better interior body to go with Duncan than they've had since the Admiral left, and he should be a good complement on the other end as well. Spurs now have the Thomas as a primary post defender and Duncan in more of a helping role.

I'd say this inches them back in front of the back as the favorite to repeat, but as has been mentioned here it's still going to brutal.

JeeberD · 02-21-2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Gerald Green for Kirk Snyder

Awesome.

And hopefully Bonzi can screw up the Hornets team chemistry a bit...

korme · 02-21-2008, 05:21 PM

Welcome to YESTERDAY Brian Swartz

Groundhog · 02-21-2008, 05:28 PM

Lakers, when Bynum gets back, are just scary. It's crazy that we may see a Lakers-Celtics final this year... seriously who would have thought that prior to the Garnett trade?

Coffee Warlord · 02-21-2008, 05:32 PM

Whooo.

I'm amazed the Bulls managed to offload Ben. And I like Gooden.

Brian Swartz · 02-21-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Welcome to YESTERDAY Brian Swartz

Interestingly enough the trade was only mentioned as a rumor in this thread, so I thought it was worth mentioning *shrug*

watravaler · 02-21-2008, 05:40 PM

As much as I liked Ben Wallace during his stay with Detroit, he has pretty much regressed into one of the worst players in the NBA. Gooden and Smith are the best players in the deal...

Groundhog · 02-21-2008, 05:47 PM

I'd reserve judgement on Gooden until you guys watch him play a couple of games in a Bulls uniform. He is one of the few players who can put up 17 points on 8-10 shooting with 12 rebounds and 3 blocked shots and still play a terrible, terrible game. You'd be looking far and wide for a Cavs fan that has anything good to say about the guy.

Coffee Warlord · 02-21-2008, 05:50 PM

It'd be nice if the Bulls could snag a second last minute deal shipping Ben Gordon out the door while they're at it.

stevew · 02-21-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I'd reserve judgement on Gooden until you guys watch him play a couple of games in a Bulls uniform. He is one of the few players who can put up 17 points on 8-10 shooting with 12 rebounds and 3 blocked shots and still play a terrible, terrible game. You'd be looking far and wide for a Cavs fan that has anything good to say about the guy.

I'll say it.

He has a cool looking beard.

That's the extent of what he does well.

stevew · 02-21-2008, 06:38 PM

Unless the Cavs get the guys to report early, or sign some 10 day deals, it's a distinct possibility we'll have 6 healthy guys dressed tomorrow night.

Groundhog · 02-21-2008, 07:00 PM

That makes us about 1 player less deep compared with a day ago.

MrBug708 · 02-21-2008, 08:22 PM

Von Wafer was traded. Amazing

Groundhog · 02-21-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Von Wafer was traded. Amazing

I think the Nuggets did OK in that trade. Wafer hasn't done much of anything outside of light up a summer league game, but I feel Taurean Green has a real chance of sticking in the league.

Neon_Chaos · 02-21-2008, 10:40 PM

The Hornets making the trade for Mike James and Bonzi Wells only solidifies their bid as a top-tier team in the West.

LloydLungs · 02-21-2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

The Hornets making the trade for Mike James and Bonzi Wells only solidifies their bid as a top-tier team in the West.

I hope so. The Hornets totally won that trade on paper, but Wells' status as a nutjob has me worried. The Hornets have been remarkably asshole-free for about three years now. Well, now we have an asshole. But there is a lot of maturity and leadership on this Hornets team, even despite their youth. I'm thinking they will more than likely be able to keep Bonzi in line, at least for this season, which is probably all we'll have him for anyway.

stevew · 02-22-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Unless the Cavs get the guys to report early, or sign some 10 day deals, it's a distinct possibility we'll have 6 healthy guys dressed tomorrow night.

They signed 2 d-leaguers I've never heard of, so the Cavs will be 8 strong tonight on ESPN. I think that you have to dress at least 9, so I would think Andy will have to shed the street clothes and sit on the bench.

Atocep · 02-22-2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

They signed 2 d-leaguers I've never heard of, so the Cavs will be 8 strong tonight on ESPN. I think that you have to dress at least 9, so I would think Andy will have to shed the street clothes and sit on the bench.

Kaniel Dickens gets a mention here:

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/...?articleid=104

He'll be an interesting one to keep an eye on. His scoring per 100 possesions was 2nd in the league at the time the article was written and he was doing that very efficiently.

Arles · 02-22-2008, 04:34 PM

The NBA salary/trading rules are a bit of a joke. We had two guys complete cap rules for a trade that haven't played in years (McKie and Van Horn) and one's an assistant coach for pete's sake. Then, we had the Stackhouse debacle that would have worked had Jerry kept his mouth shut. Now, we have the Sam Presti-Spurs connection on the Barry deal. Barry was bought out by Seattle (days before the March 1 deadline), so he can now resign with San Antonio in 30 days and be eligible for the postseason.

For all the complaining Pop did about the Lakers, he certainly pulled the wool over the NBA on this one. The best player (Barry) sent in the Kurt Thomas trade will basically be returned to SA for nothing. And, what's even better, they only have to pay him around 1/10 of what he was making before as his old buddy Sam Presti was nice enough to buy out Barry from his original salary.

molson · 02-22-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

The NBA salary/trading rules are a bit of a joke. We had two guys complete cap rules for a trade that haven't played in years (McKie and Van Horn) and one's an assistant coach for pete's sake. Then, we had the Stackhouse debacle that would have worked had Jerry kept his mouth shut. Now, we have the Sam Presti-Spurs connection on the Barry deal. Barry was bought out by Seattle (days before the March 1 deadline), so he can now resign with San Antonio in 30 days and be eligible for the postseason.

You wouldn't think it be that complicated to make workable salary cap rules for 12-man roster.

Who was that guy a few years ago that had some agreement with his team that he'd be cut and then re-signed, and then he got cut and signed with someone else for more money? (I may not be remembering that exactly right)

stevew · 02-22-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Who was that guy a few years ago that had some agreement with his team that he'd be cut and then re-signed, and then he got cut and signed with someone else for more money? (I may not be remembering that exactly right)

You'd be speaking of the fuckhead known as Carlos Boozer.

stevew · 02-22-2008, 09:56 PM

Man, the Wizards suck. I know it's a road game, but it should have been a gimme, considering the Cavs roster makeup tonight.

ThunderingHERD · 02-22-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Man, the Wizards suck. I know it's a road game, but it should have been a gimme, considering the Cavs roster makeup tonight.

The Wizards aren't exactly at full strength either.

Groundhog · 02-23-2008, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderingHERD

The Wizards aren't exactly at full strength either.

While that's true, really, come on...

The Cavs started Snow-Damon Jones-Brown-LeBron-Z and had one D-Leaguer playing big minutes and throwing up 11 threes I believe it was. The commentators were completely correct all game, Jamison should have had the ball in the post on every possession, because Eric Snow of all people was defending him down there.

Arles · 02-23-2008, 10:44 AM

Lebron + 5 random NBA players + 2 D-League guys = better than half the teams in the East.

Ajaxab · 02-23-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

The NBA salary/trading rules are a bit of a joke. We had two guys complete cap rules for a trade that haven't played in years (McKie and Van Horn) and one's an assistant coach for pete's sake. Then, we had the Stackhouse debacle that would have worked had Jerry kept his mouth shut. Now, we have the Sam Presti-Spurs connection on the Barry deal. Barry was bought out by Seattle (days before the March 1 deadline), so he can now resign with San Antonio in 30 days and be eligible for the postseason.

For all the complaining Pop did about the Lakers, he certainly pulled the wool over the NBA on this one. The best player (Barry) sent in the Kurt Thomas trade will basically be returned to SA for nothing. And, what's even better, they only have to pay him around 1/10 of what he was making before as his old buddy Sam Presti was nice enough to buy out Barry from his original salary.

As a Phoenix guy, you have every right to complain. But I did hear rumors that the Suns might be interested in Barry. If that happened, would your opinion be different about the proverbial wool-pulling?

Arles · 02-23-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajaxab

As a Phoenix guy, you have every right to complain. But I did hear rumors that the Suns might be interested in Barry. If that happened, would your opinion be different about the proverbial wool-pulling?

It doesn't bother me if Barry signs with Dallas, Phoenix, Golden State, Denver or the Lakers. What bothers me is when an obvious charade is pulled on a trade where:

1. a former assistant GM from team X (now the GM for team Y) takes a player from team X in a deal
2. Team Y buys out that player days before the "eligible for postseason" date arrives.
3. That player goes back to team X and signs for pennys on the dollar because he got his money from team Y.

That's shady and even worse than the proposed Stackhouse debacle (which was also shady). You shouldn't be able to move players in a deadline deal and end up with them back on your roster for the postseason a few months later. Then you throw in the report that Presti passed up on a slightly better deal from Orlando (exact sam expirings and a better pick) to help his former employer in the Kurt Thomas deal and this whole thing smells like a planned setup to get the Spurs Kurt and Barry for nothing.

miami_fan · 02-23-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

It doesn't bother me if Barry signs with Dallas, Phoenix, Golden State, Denver or the Lakers. What bothers me is when an obvious charade is pulled on a trade where:

1. a former assistant GM from team X (now the GM for team Y) takes a player from team X in a deal
2. Team Y buys out that player days before the "eligible for postseason" date arrives.
3. That player goes back to team X and signs for pennys on the dollar because he got his money from team Y.

That's shady and even worse than the proposed Stackhouse debacle (which was also shady). You shouldn't be able to move players in a deadline deal and end up with them back on your roster for the postseason a few months later. Then you throw in the report that Presti passed up on a slightly better deal from Orlando (exact sam expirings and a better pick) to help his former employer in the Kurt Thomas deal and this whole thing smells like a planned setup to get the Spurs Kurt and Barry for nothing.

Even if it was planned, what is the fix? Do you eliminate the buyout option altogether? Do you restrict the Spurs from signing him at all if he is released since obviously the 30 day restriction does not work? Finally whatever change is made do you limit it to deadline deal? This deal is not an issue if it is made over the summer. The only fix I see is if the league office sets certain conditions for each trade on a case by case basis prior to giving its approval. They could also do like baseball and say if you are not on the team by say 1 March then you can't play with the team in the playoffs. That would just push this type of trade back to February 1st or before.

Arles · 02-23-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Even if it was planned, what is the fix? Do you eliminate the buyout option altogether? Do you restrict the Spurs from signing him at all if he is released since obviously the 30 day restriction does not work? Finally whatever change is made do you limit it to deadline deal? This deal is not an issue if it is made over the summer. The only fix I see is if the league office sets certain conditions for each trade on a case by case basis prior to giving its approval. They could also do like baseball and say if you are not on the team by say 1 March then you can't play with the team in the playoffs. That would just push this type of trade back to February 1st or before.

There's a simple fix:

if a player is traded from your team after Jan 1, they cannot, under any circumstances, be on your postseason roster for that season.

Clean, concise and solves the problem. In November and December, enough teams are still in the hunt where few would pull what Seattle-SA did or NJ-Dallas tried. Plus, by moving before Jan 1, you limit the late "tax savings" dumps and returns that occur right at the trade deadline.

Brian Swartz · 02-23-2008, 05:18 PM

As a Spurs fan here, I agree with Arles(someone get my medication!)

. If Barry signs with San Antonio, other teams do have a right to complain.

However, I don't see how it's different if it's done in the summer. I would simply make it so the player cannot sign back with the team as a FA anytime until the next off-season no matter when the trade occurs. They can be traded back, but not signed of the free-agent rolls.

If Barry comes back to SA and plays a significant roll in their playoff run, as a fan I will enjoy it a loss less because of this issue. Certainly the last thing the NBA needs is another Spurs title that some will say is tainted(despite my well-known opinion on last year's events, the perception issue is still there).

Oh, and Drew Gooden has been grossly under-rated in this thread.

Groundhog · 02-24-2008, 07:46 PM

It may have been against a Mike Miller-less Griz, but the new-look Cavs looked pretty good tonight. Ben Wallace had a seeason high 12 points to go with 10 boards, and all the new guys contributed.

Logan · 02-24-2008, 08:06 PM

Joe Smith - 14 points on 6 of 8 shooting with 6 boards in 25 minutes. Not bad at all.

stevew · 02-24-2008, 11:36 PM

I believe there is a rule where you can't be traded back to a team within a year of the previous trade. Not 100% positive though.

They definitely need a rule where you have to wait til the next "league year" to rejoin a team as a free agent, though. If you were involved in a trade.

stevew · 02-24-2008, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Oh, and Drew Gooden has been grossly under-rated in this thread.

I tried to like him, but he's pretty suck ass, he's just not a "winning player." He might even put up like 17/12 in chicago, but he's just not very smart.

He's a bench player.

Groundhog · 02-24-2008, 11:46 PM

Pretty much, yeah. As I said earlier, you won't find Cavs fans with too much good to say about him.

There are certainly worst PFs in the league, but he's not a guy you having logging big minutes if you hope to win a title.

Brian Swartz · 02-25-2008, 01:16 AM

Based on how he played in last year's playoffs, I'd rather have Gooden logging big minutes than Anderson Varejao or Joe Smith. I can see why you'd want to upgrade the position, but Ilgauskas was only slightly better and it's not like the Cavs have improved it with Smith, who isn't as good a rebounder.

Groundhog · 02-25-2008, 05:56 PM

Smith isn't a great rebounder but LeBron, Varejao and Ben Wallace are all better - or, at the least, comparable - rebounders than Gooden anyway. Smith has a similar offensive game to Gooden but is better at it, even at this stage of his career, and has an offensive and defensive awareness greater than zero.

stevew · 02-25-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Based on how he played in last year's playoffs, I'd rather have Gooden logging big minutes than Anderson Varejao or Joe Smith. I can see why you'd want to upgrade the position, but Ilgauskas was only slightly better and it's not like the Cavs have improved it with Smith, who isn't as good a rebounder.

I think LeBron can cover for any rebounding deficiencies that may arise. Plus Wallace enables them to run a few more sets with LeBron manning the 4 spot. Which should theoretically enable them to play 3 shooters in that lineup. I wouldn't be suprised to see James average a triple double, or something like 30/10/9 for the rest of the season.

Brian Swartz · 02-25-2008, 06:17 PM

First of all on the rebounding, for all his greatness LeBron isn't even close. Drew Gooden's rebounds/48 minutes this year is 12.98. Now even if you don't want to take into account that this has been Gooden's worst year since 2003, and therefore isn't all that representative and he could well do better in the playoffs, James is at 9.70. Varejao is the best rebounder of the bunch this year, but has been comparable to Gooden at best before and he's only played 22 games this year so his numbers have to be taken with a big grain of salt. He also commits significantly more fouls than Gooden and scores a lot less. Wallace is about a wash with Drew Gooden in rebounding, a better defender, and does nothing offensively as well all know and whoever his man is absolutely doesn't have to respect him from the mid-range area.

Arles · 02-25-2008, 06:36 PM

I see Brian's point, but I'm not sure Cleveland needs gooden as much as 3 sturdy vets. The issues with Hughes and Gooden were their consistency and tendency to have bad "mental nights". With Lebron, the Cavs don't need guys that have 2 great nights, followed by 2 stinkers. They need guys that are consistent 4 nights in a row. Wally, Smith and Wallace should provide that, but none have a ceiling as high as Gooden. But, with Lebron, a guy you can pencil in for 12 and 7 is better than a guy that goes 20-15 one night and 6-5 the next.

Brian Swartz · 02-25-2008, 07:04 PM

That's a worthwhile point, but I still don't think it helps all that much. Wallace is more consistent than Gooden, but Sczerbiak is just as inconsistent as either Hughes or Gooden and he doesn't give you anything else -- I'm wouldn't be thrilled as a Cavs fan that my best perimeter defender is gone espescially with Wally being the turnstile that he is.

nfg22 · 02-25-2008, 07:07 PM

Brian, I think that Sczerbiak is better than Hughes for two things and this is from my watching him as a Timberwolf. Basically Sczerbiak doesn't need to hold the ball and run the offense to score like Hughes. He can catch and shoot or catch and dribble. He doesnt stand with the ball too much. Also, his averages are more consistent than Hughes.

Brian Swartz · 02-25-2008, 11:55 PM

There's no question Sczerbiak is a better offensive player. He's also a poor defender, while Hughes was a good defender, and I think given the Cavs identity as a team this is a case where they will miss the defense more.

As for consistency, Hughes has 25 games this year with single-digit scoring, Sczerbiak 21. More of Hughes' games were of the 8-9 point variety than Wally's were, and he hadn't had such a game in his last dozen or so. Seems to me there's not a big difference in consistency there.

nfg22 · 02-26-2008, 01:09 AM

Agreed on the defense. Yet for the offense, Wally World inc. was a bench player, more of a sixth man. Minutes fluctuate quite a bit. He is also averaging ten less minutes a game and more points. I think Lebron just needs some more options...seriously...

02-21-2008, 03:28 PM	#601
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	http://games.espn.go.com/nba/feature...25~4&te=&cash= The trade. __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

02-21-2008, 03:47 PM	#604
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	Joe Smith is a solid role player. Last edited by Logan : 02-21-2008 at 03:47 PM.

02-21-2008, 05:04 PM	#606
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	The Cavs trade isn't quite as good as I was hoping, probably because I had my heart set on Mike Miller, but overall I like it. Drew Gooden is one of those "boxscore" guys who, even when he has a nice game statistically, completely sucks ass in a variety of ways that don't show up on the box. Hughes has had some better games this year, but he's still Larry Hughes, and I'm surprised we were able to move him. The other guys are nothing that will be missed. We bring on Ben Wallace who is certainly past it compared to his old self, but defensively he is still a billion times better the Rew Gooen. Wally is a shooter and lord knows we need those, and Delonte West is a guy who I've liked ever since he came in to the league. So basically, we didn't bring in the big name guy that I hoped we would, but the Cavs are a better team now than they were before the trade. Good enough to return to the Finals? Well, it'll still take a monster of a series by LeBron James, but if we could do it last year, then why not this year? __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

02-21-2008, 05:28 PM	#610
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	Lakers, when Bynum gets back, are just scary. It's crazy that we may see a Lakers-Celtics final this year... seriously who would have thought that prior to the Garnett trade? __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce Last edited by Groundhog : 02-21-2008 at 05:28 PM.

02-21-2008, 05:40 PM	#613
watravaler High School JV Join Date: Jun 2005	As much as I liked Ben Wallace during his stay with Detroit, he has pretty much regressed into one of the worst players in the NBA. Gooden and Smith are the best players in the deal... Last edited by watravaler : 02-21-2008 at 05:40 PM.

02-21-2008, 03:38 PM	#602
bulletsponge Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: TX	wow, the cavs picked up a lot of dead overpaid weight with years left on thier contract

02-21-2008, 04:05 PM	#605
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Gerald Green for Kirk Snyder

02-21-2008, 05:11 PM	#607
Brian Swartz Grizzled Veteran Join Date: May 2006	Since it hasn't been mentioned as the Cavs-Bulls-Sonics is the big trade, Spurs also got Kurt Thomas from Seattle for Brent Barry, Francisco Elson, and a 2009 pick. IMO this gives SA a better interior body to go with Duncan than they've had since the Admiral left, and he should be a good complement on the other end as well. Spurs now have the Thomas as a primary post defender and Duncan in more of a helping role. I'd say this inches them back in front of the back as the favorite to repeat, but as has been mentioned here it's still going to brutal.

02-21-2008, 05:21 PM	#609
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Welcome to YESTERDAY Brian Swartz

02-21-2008, 05:32 PM	#611
Coffee Warlord Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Colorado Springs	Whooo. I'm amazed the Bulls managed to offload Ben. And I like Gooden.

02-21-2008, 05:47 PM	#614
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	I'd reserve judgement on Gooden until you guys watch him play a couple of games in a Bulls uniform. He is one of the few players who can put up 17 points on 8-10 shooting with 12 rebounds and 3 blocked shots and still play a terrible, terrible game. You'd be looking far and wide for a Cavs fan that has anything good to say about the guy. __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

02-21-2008, 05:50 PM	#615
Coffee Warlord Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Colorado Springs	It'd be nice if the Bulls could snag a second last minute deal shipping Ben Gordon out the door while they're at it.

02-21-2008, 06:38 PM	#617
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Unless the Cavs get the guys to report early, or sign some 10 day deals, it's a distinct possibility we'll have 6 healthy guys dressed tomorrow night.

02-21-2008, 07:00 PM	#618
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	That makes us about 1 player less deep compared with a day ago. __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

02-21-2008, 08:22 PM	#619
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Von Wafer was traded. Amazing

02-21-2008, 10:40 PM	#621
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	The Hornets making the trade for Mike James and Bonzi Wells only solidifies their bid as a top-tier team in the West. __________________ Come and see.

02-22-2008, 04:34 PM	#625
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	The NBA salary/trading rules are a bit of a joke. We had two guys complete cap rules for a trade that haven't played in years (McKie and Van Horn) and one's an assistant coach for pete's sake. Then, we had the Stackhouse debacle that would have worked had Jerry kept his mouth shut. Now, we have the Sam Presti-Spurs connection on the Barry deal. Barry was bought out by Seattle (days before the March 1 deadline), so he can now resign with San Antonio in 30 days and be eligible for the postseason. For all the complaining Pop did about the Lakers, he certainly pulled the wool over the NBA on this one. The best player (Barry) sent in the Kurt Thomas trade will basically be returned to SA for nothing. And, what's even better, they only have to pay him around 1/10 of what he was making before as his old buddy Sam Presti was nice enough to buy out Barry from his original salary. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com Last edited by Arles : 02-22-2008 at 04:36 PM.

02-22-2008, 09:56 PM	#628
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Man, the Wizards suck. I know it's a road game, but it should have been a gimme, considering the Cavs roster makeup tonight.

02-23-2008, 10:44 AM	#631
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Lebron + 5 random NBA players + 2 D-League guys = better than half the teams in the East. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

02-23-2008, 05:18 PM	#636
Brian Swartz Grizzled Veteran Join Date: May 2006	As a Spurs fan here, I agree with Arles(someone get my medication!) . If Barry signs with San Antonio, other teams do have a right to complain. However, I don't see how it's different if it's done in the summer. I would simply make it so the player cannot sign back with the team as a FA anytime until the next off-season no matter when the trade occurs. They can be traded back, but not signed of the free-agent rolls. If Barry comes back to SA and plays a significant roll in their playoff run, as a fan I will enjoy it a loss less because of this issue. Certainly the last thing the NBA needs is another Spurs title that some will say is tainted(despite my well-known opinion on last year's events, the perception issue is still there). Oh, and Drew Gooden has been grossly under-rated in this thread. Last edited by Brian Swartz : 02-23-2008 at 05:18 PM.

02-24-2008, 07:46 PM	#637
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	It may have been against a Mike Miller-less Griz, but the new-look Cavs looked pretty good tonight. Ben Wallace had a seeason high 12 points to go with 10 boards, and all the new guys contributed. __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

02-24-2008, 08:06 PM	#638
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	Joe Smith - 14 points on 6 of 8 shooting with 6 boards in 25 minutes. Not bad at all.

02-24-2008, 11:36 PM	#639
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I believe there is a rule where you can't be traded back to a team within a year of the previous trade. Not 100% positive though. They definitely need a rule where you have to wait til the next "league year" to rejoin a team as a free agent, though. If you were involved in a trade.

02-24-2008, 11:46 PM	#641
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	Pretty much, yeah. As I said earlier, you won't find Cavs fans with too much good to say about him. There are certainly worst PFs in the league, but he's not a guy you having logging big minutes if you hope to win a title. __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

02-25-2008, 01:16 AM	#642
Brian Swartz Grizzled Veteran Join Date: May 2006	Based on how he played in last year's playoffs, I'd rather have Gooden logging big minutes than Anderson Varejao or Joe Smith. I can see why you'd want to upgrade the position, but Ilgauskas was only slightly better and it's not like the Cavs have improved it with Smith, who isn't as good a rebounder.

02-25-2008, 05:56 PM	#643
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	Smith isn't a great rebounder but LeBron, Varejao and Ben Wallace are all better - or, at the least, comparable - rebounders than Gooden anyway. Smith has a similar offensive game to Gooden but is better at it, even at this stage of his career, and has an offensive and defensive awareness greater than zero. __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

02-25-2008, 06:17 PM	#645
Brian Swartz Grizzled Veteran Join Date: May 2006	First of all on the rebounding, for all his greatness LeBron isn't even close. Drew Gooden's rebounds/48 minutes this year is 12.98. Now even if you don't want to take into account that this has been Gooden's worst year since 2003, and therefore isn't all that representative and he could well do better in the playoffs, James is at 9.70. Varejao is the best rebounder of the bunch this year, but has been comparable to Gooden at best before and he's only played 22 games this year so his numbers have to be taken with a big grain of salt. He also commits significantly more fouls than Gooden and scores a lot less. Wallace is about a wash with Drew Gooden in rebounding, a better defender, and does nothing offensively as well all know and whoever his man is absolutely doesn't have to respect him from the mid-range area.

02-25-2008, 06:36 PM	#646
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	I see Brian's point, but I'm not sure Cleveland needs gooden as much as 3 sturdy vets. The issues with Hughes and Gooden were their consistency and tendency to have bad "mental nights". With Lebron, the Cavs don't need guys that have 2 great nights, followed by 2 stinkers. They need guys that are consistent 4 nights in a row. Wally, Smith and Wallace should provide that, but none have a ceiling as high as Gooden. But, with Lebron, a guy you can pencil in for 12 and 7 is better than a guy that goes 20-15 one night and 6-5 the next. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

02-25-2008, 07:04 PM	#647
Brian Swartz Grizzled Veteran Join Date: May 2006	That's a worthwhile point, but I still don't think it helps all that much. Wallace is more consistent than Gooden, but Sczerbiak is just as inconsistent as either Hughes or Gooden and he doesn't give you anything else -- I'm wouldn't be thrilled as a Cavs fan that my best perimeter defender is gone espescially with Wally being the turnstile that he is.

02-25-2008, 07:07 PM	#648
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	Brian, I think that Sczerbiak is better than Hughes for two things and this is from my watching him as a Timberwolf. Basically Sczerbiak doesn't need to hold the ball and run the offense to score like Hughes. He can catch and shoot or catch and dribble. He doesnt stand with the ball too much. Also, his averages are more consistent than Hughes.

02-25-2008, 11:55 PM	#649
Brian Swartz Grizzled Veteran Join Date: May 2006	There's no question Sczerbiak is a better offensive player. He's also a poor defender, while Hughes was a good defender, and I think given the Cavs identity as a team this is a case where they will miss the defense more. As for consistency, Hughes has 25 games this year with single-digit scoring, Sczerbiak 21. More of Hughes' games were of the 8-9 point variety than Wally's were, and he hadn't had such a game in his last dozen or so. Seems to me there's not a big difference in consistency there.

02-26-2008, 01:09 AM	#650
nfg22 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2004	Agreed on the defense. Yet for the offense, Wally World inc. was a bench player, more of a sixth man. Minutes fluctuate quite a bit. He is also averaging ten less minutes a game and more points. I think Lebron just needs some more options...seriously...

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