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#6301 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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If the woman in the car had nothing to do with the crime and was not armed, the vehicle owner should be charged with shooting her.
Retrieving your vehicle seems fair and shooting the person in self-defense does too (although I'm sure the laws are confusing on this). But you are responsible for collateral damage if an innocent person is struck. |
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#6302 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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That one seems like the greatest evidence to reduce (or defund orwhatever word you want to use) the police. The owner conducted his own investigation. During the investigation he was able to find the car and track the accused. He attempted to bring the accused to trial, the owner feared for his life and killed the accused in self defense.
We could deputized everyone with this power this time and see how it goes. EDIT: I replaced the word "suspect" with "accused" "Suspect" seems too loaded of a word for this case.
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 Last edited by miami_fan : 07-28-2023 at 05:51 PM. |
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#6303 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2020
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I see that Race Wars has started again in Selma... did anyone let Dominic Torretto know?
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#6304 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Here is the breakdown along with the announcement of warrants on the guys that started it all. I can't help but think if it were black men that started the fight instead of ehite men, the charges would be felonies. But my favorite line is from the reporter that sounds less than journalistic:
"At one point, a Black man attacked two others with a folding chair, as if competing in a professional wrestling match, before he was detained by police, the footage shows." Montgomery riverfront brawl: Arrest warrants issued for 3 men in massive fight at Alabama dock, police say | CNN |
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#6305 | |||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Nice.
6 ex-officers, some of whom called themselves 'The Goon Squad,' plead guilty in torture of 2 Black men | CNN Quote:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...raid-home.html Quote:
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Looks like the Keystone Cops version of the vigilante cops in "Magnum Force". I wonder what they were thinking that moment it became clear they had frakked up. Last edited by Edward64 : 08-14-2023 at 12:04 PM. |
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#6306 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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How many times had they gotten away with it before this? How many more are getting away with it right now? I promise you this wasn't the first time or an isolated incident.
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#6307 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PDX
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Seems like broken Policing culture pushes the most INsensitive officers towards the most sensitive assignments
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Last edited by thesloppy : Today at 05:35 PM. |
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#6308 | |||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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A customer shot a perp (multiple times) attempting to rob a convenience store. Don't get between a big guy and buying a 6-pack of Miller.
Check the video start at about :35 Video: Beer-toting customer shot at robbery suspect 7 times | WOODTV.com Quote:
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Last edited by Edward64 : 08-19-2023 at 10:02 PM. |
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#6309 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Short on details right now. In general, I agree with shooting at anyone trying to break into my house but this sounds a little too trigger happy. Assume the kid was making a lot of noise trying to open the door but hadn't kicked it down.
Parents react to shooting death of University of South Carolina student from CT Quote:
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#6310 | ||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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A tragedy but the shooting seems justified based on the facts below. He didn't kick down the door but about to enter by breaking the glass. Man who fatally shot South Carolina college student... | Daily Mail Online Quote:
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#6311 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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If the guy is breaking in, that is different than a kid banging on the door. It is still terrible that the kid died for a mistake, but there is no way that homeowner could know that he wasn't coming in to harm someone.
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#6312 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maryland
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So we've all seen the cop shooting the pregnant woman in her car by now, right?
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#6313 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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It was a petty shoplifting issue. Take the license info and get her later. Cops need to de-escalate.
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#6314 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Or maybe you shouldn't try to drive into a cop.
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"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
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#6315 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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yikes. I mean it seems very probable that she did shoplift unless she was scared of the cops shooting her...which in fact happened.
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#6316 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Well she WAS trying to drive away/over him. But once she pulled to the side of the store it didn't look like she was driving anymore. I can't find footage of the actual shot tho. |
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#6317 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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this is good coverage
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#6318 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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found a different shooitng....this one is just weird.... like a suicidal woman or something |
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#6319 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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So he shot an innocent woman in another vehicle too?
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#6320 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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#6321 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I dunno. Per the video (and another one in real time that I saw that was in real time), the first officer who was trying to open a locked car approached this second car and got in front of it. The first officer shot when the car moved forward. Arguably, he should not have been in front of the car where he was in a vulnerable position but the video analysis indicates this was not out of norm as a procedure. Basically, seems like unnecessary force to me but I can see the rationale with the car moving e.g. split second decision etc. The first officer should (maybe) be on the other side passenger window instead of out in front. Regardless, my guess is there'll be a civil lawsuit & payout but the first officer won't be found guilty. Would be good to know if there is a history of "situations" against that first cop that would go to state of mind. |
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#6322 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Watch what I posted, Edward. It's good analysis
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#6323 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Yeah, when you draw a weapon, all bets are off. It happened around Aug 19. I searched for "Alysha Duran" but didn't find anything about "why" she was like that. Wonder what was wrong with her. |
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#6324 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I did. Was there something I missed? Also saw this one which was in real time https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...oli-rcna102982 Last edited by Edward64 : 09-02-2023 at 05:50 AM. |
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#6325 | |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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#6326 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
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I’m just going to say that if that is what we are teaching our cops then the entire system needs revamped. Cop two should have been at the passenger side window so he could actually see into the car. He should also not have drawn his gun. I would also say that shooting a shot while both feet off the ground in a Kroger parking lot probably isn’t ideal either.
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#6327 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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From what I saw I'm with the cop. Don’t try and run over a police officer with your car and you won’t get shot.
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#6328 | |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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#6329 | ||
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
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I agree with her mistakes, but I just feel like part of being a cop is controlling the situation. He placed himself in such a dangerous situation over such a petty crime that he felt the need to draw his gun just to keep himself self. If he places himself in a much safer position on the side of the car do you think he feels so endangered that he needs to draw his gun preemptively? I don’t understand why the video says we are teaching our police officers to put themselves in these positions. It’s like no one involved has any common sense.
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#6330 | |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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#6331 | ||
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
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So your stance is we shoot everyone that commits a misdemeanor that doesn’t immediately comply with the cops because at some point in the future they could commit a felony
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#6332 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
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I’m just saying if cop 2 doesn’t stand in front of the car this ends with her arrest later in the day. We have her face on camera and her license plate.
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#6333 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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#6334 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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#6335 | |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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This is where you’re totally wrong. First I want to state unequivocally she did not deserve to die for shoplifting. However, she would have totally gotten off. Crime being out of control is no longer a right wing talking point to show how liberal policies have destroyed cities. It’s real. I live in a very red town and we have a high end cosmetics store, police have to park out front of there because of so much theft. Interesting enough I actually was at my cousins house last night who has been a police officer for 20 years the best kind of police officer you want lives in the town he’s a cop loves his job genuinely wants to help people he was telling me they literally do not arrest people anymore or lock them up. If there’s a warrant that they get someone on the other town on even, they literally are just letting people commit crimes people know that and now crime has gotten out of control, and we end up in a situation like this. |
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#6336 | ||
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
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I agree that punishment is too light for many crimes. We shouldn’t have the same people committing the same crimes over and over. It is out of control. That being said I still stand by the fact that this interaction was not handled right by anyone and the cop is responsible for putting himself in a dangerous situation over a crime that they hadn’t even confirmed yet.
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#6337 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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Should we punish a police officer for not using deadly force in these types of situation? For not doing what they are trained to do?
__________________
"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
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#6338 | ||
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2003
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This. She could have shut off the car and refused to get out. There'd have been time spent trying to convince her staying in the car was not helping. Maybe the talk would have worked, if not and she didn't get out she'd eventually be removed, lawfully as a consequence of her actions, not the cops. Instead she chose to drive the car forward. The point of body cameras was to remove "the officer is making up facts to justify his excessive force" allegations. Worked as intended. |
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#6339 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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In retrospect, I can also see if the other cop was on the other side, she would be even more nervous. I wouldn't want a cop of each side (having to look back and forth), I'd prefer where I could see both at one time. |
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#6340 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Cops shouldn't be trained to put themselves in situations where they can be run over. He's lucky he wasn't seriously hurt or killed. As dubb said, they have her picture and license plate number. Go get her later and add a charge of fleeing the scene.
Cops nearly getting run over and then firing shots in a crowded parking lot over petty theft shouldn't be SOP.
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#6341 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2003
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We leave it to the officer and his training, then revue the body camera footage and make a decision on how the officer acted. Kind of like what is happening now. If they had let her drive off in her state of mind (not exactly rational and composed when one is willing to drive a vehicle at another human being whether a cop or not) and she ran over a child in the parking lot? The officer may well have been punished. |
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#6342 | ||
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Yes but the point of policing isn’t to kill petty shoplifters. If she gets nervous and leaves with him over there she just leaves. She doesn’t run him over. The number one rule of all of this is your own safety. This cop put himself in a situation that only had two outcomes. 1 - she complies 2 - she gets shot. Why would you teach your cops to stand in front of a car? Why would you teach them to create situations with only these two outcomes? That’s one of the dumbest things I take out of this. It isn’t like she was threatening anyone with a gun. Why create that situation?
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#6343 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Per the analysis video (at about 2:15), police officers are trained to "when 2 officers approach a car, they take position to give them the best advantage for observing what the suspect is doing aka contact & cover". So it's not training them to stand in front of the car, its training them to be in position to observe and/or cover the other cop. If a suspect is willing to drive away when a cop is standing in front of the car, its reasonable to assume there is a threat. We know now it was shoplifting, but who knows, she could have been wanted for something more serious and wanted to escape ... ... is it normal for a shoplifter, in a car, to try to run over a cop? She didn't deserve to die for shoplifting but people makes decisions that have consequences. Just like that drunk frat kid that decided to break into what he thought was his frat house. Last edited by Edward64 : 09-02-2023 at 10:25 AM. |
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#6344 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Is this how you want your community policed specifically with the cop drawing his gun. He drew that before she did anything. Is that how you want your friends and family policed?
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#6345 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Do you think someone should be able to point you out to a cop and have him demand your info while another cop holds you at gunpoint? Is that how we want to be policed?
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#6346 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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I can't quote, but the officers did not shoot this person for committing a misdemeanor. They shot a person that was in the commission of a felony. Once she put that car in drive, she was a felon using a deadly weapon. Her choice, not theirs. The fault totally lies on her, and it amazes me how people can overlook criminals actions and blame police for everything. There are plenty of times when the police are out of line and can be blamed for escalation. This is not one.
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#6347 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Dubb, watch that video again. He drew the gun once she started to turn the wheel to move the car. And yes, that is exactly when the police should pull a weapon. When someone is in commission of a felony.
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#6348 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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It is actually possible that she didn't steal and the employees just pointed a finger at her.
And thus her ignoring them was more motivated by disliking the racial profiling of them accusing her. I mean the us saying "she should comply and she'll be let go" thing doesn't always apply to black people. And we see over and over again black people trying to run away from cops and then getting shot. It's too messed up to have a solution |
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#6349 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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This is not accurate. Again, per the video at approx 3:30, the woman turned the steering wheel, that's when the officers drew their weapons. Its not clear to me if the car was running, but in neutral. I did not hear it in the analysis but assume the engine was on. |
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#6350 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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If I was not complying with the police after multiple requests, and I moved the car, sure. Perfectly reasonable. |
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