Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Mr. SEC confirms Mizzou move to leave comes today. Also reiterates that WVU will start play next year in the Big 12.

Missouri withdrawal happening today | MrSEC.com

They pulled out of consideration by the ACC is must be what he meant!

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm so cynical at this point that I wonder in the the back of my mind if the Big East and Big 12 websites are also "insider blogs" and that we're going to hear this is all really "on hold" in the next few days.

So I keep hearing too that the Big East has the BCS bid for another 2-3 seasons no matter what. Is that STILL true even if everyone buys out the necessary exist clauses and there's a 5-team conference next year?

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

They would get a waiver like the WAC did for one year while they reform the league or whatever. That being said, those schools would lose millions if the league lost its BCS bid early. No matter how bad this commissioner is, there's no way that happens and there are lots of schools that would prefer a two-year date in a shaky BCS league (where they can be competitive) over the alternative.

Originally Posted by Atocep

To add to what Dark Cloud posted, the NCAA requires a football conference to have 8 schools. You can get a waiver of up to 2 years though.

The BCS does not have a rule in place for minimum teams in a conference.

The current BCS agreement ends in 2013 though so the pressure is on the Big East to put itself in position to keep its AQ status for the next agreement. I don't see it getting removed early, but keeping it will definitely depend on who gets added between now and then.

Haven't seen anyone talking about the possibility of Boise State joining the Big East. Not sure how I feel about it tbh. The travel for all teams involved has the potential to be brutal, but BSU would have a shot at an AQ for the first time in school history. This would at least set them up for something better in 3-5 years, assuming they continue on as they are by winning nearly every game they play. It's too bad their academics aren't better and that they don't have some other top-notch (or even above average) sports (i.e., basketball, wrestling, baseball, etc.).

[Young Drachma]

Boise State president Bob Kustra meets with Big East commissioner John Marinatto Thursday - ESPN

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Boise State president Bob Kustra meets with Big East commissioner John Marinatto Thursday - ESPN

Yeah I saw that. Have actually known about this for a week or two, but was just wondering what others here think about it.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Haven't seen anyone talking about the possibility of Boise State joining the Big East. Not sure how I feel about it tbh. The travel for all teams involved has the potential to be brutal, but BSU would have a shot at an AQ for the first time in school history. This would at least set them up for something better in 3-5 years, assuming they continue on as they are by winning nearly every game they play. It's too bad their academics aren't better and that they don't have some other top-notch (or even above average) sports (i.e., basketball, wrestling, baseball, etc.).

If it is for football only, the travel wouldn't be that bad. Figure that, if Boise does come aboard, they will likely form a division with SMU, Houston, Air Force, and probably (at most) some teams like Louisville or Memphis or Cincy. They will only travel for 4 or 5 games in a conference schedule, with one likely being in Texas each year and another being in Colorado every other year. There won't be many bus trips, but are there really that many for them now?

That was part of the argument against WVU leaving for the Big 12, but with Pitt leaving and VPI and Temple already gone, Cincy was the only other BE team that football would bus to now.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

If it is for football only, the travel wouldn't be that bad. Figure that, if Boise does come aboard, they will likely form a division with SMU, Houston, Air Force, and probably (at most) some teams like Louisville or Memphis or Cincy. They will only travel for 4 or 5 games in a conference schedule, with one likely being in Texas each year and another being in Colorado every other year. There won't be many bus trips, but are there really that many for them now?

That was part of the argument against WVU leaving for the Big 12, but with Pitt leaving and VPI and Temple already gone, Cincy was the only other BE team that football would bus to now.

Bussing it, hahahaha. It's called vanning it for the non-revenue sportds.

[Swaggs]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread yet, but there have been some undertones indicating that part of a settlement for allowing WVU, Pitt, and Cuse to leave early might be the ACC and B12 (and possibly the SEC as the catalyst for all of this) agreeing to vote for the BE to retain its AQ. Seems reasonable and, even if it is not part of a deal, I think the Big East will keep its autobid for the foreseeable future.

On a totally unrelated note, I think one of the more underreported events going on right now is the fact that the state of Texas is probably going to end up having 7 AQ teams within the next few years (Texas, Tech, A&M, Baylor, TCU, SMU, and Houston) and how that is going to play out with recruiting for out of state teams that have traditionally made hay in Texas. I imagine that SMU and Houston are going to become forces if they play in an even more diminished Big East while recruiting with an AQ tag.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread yet, but there have been some undertones indicating that part of a settlement for allowing WVU, Pitt, and Cuse to leave early might be the ACC and B12 (and possibly the SEC as the catalyst for all of this) agreeing to vote for the BE to retain its AQ. Seems reasonable and, even if it is not part of a deal, I think the Big East will keep its autobid for the foreseeable future.

Not that they haven't had their hands in these moves already, but ESPN must love that. Though if their pet team UCONN gets the autobid, maybe they do.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Yeah I saw that. Have actually known about this for a week or two, but was just wondering what others here think about it.

It occurred to me after I posted that you surely knew and were looking for feedback. My bad.

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread yet, but there have been some undertones indicating that part of a settlement for allowing WVU, Pitt, and Cuse to leave early might be the ACC and B12 (and possibly the SEC as the catalyst for all of this) agreeing to vote for the BE to retain its AQ. Seems reasonable and, even if it is not part of a deal, I think the Big East will keep its autobid for the foreseeable future.

I've seen it speculated on some blogs that this might be the scenario. I tend to think that sounds the most reasonable thing. Given that a playoff seems absolutely remote and that the MWC isn't in AQ contending territory anyway, having a waystation BCS league might be best for everyone. I tend to think that this implicit deal is what happens. That or some kind of free-for-all play-in for one AQ spot, but that seems too bold and radical for these folks.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread yet, but there have been some undertones indicating that part of a settlement for allowing WVU, Pitt, and Cuse to leave early might be the ACC and B12 (and possibly the SEC as the catalyst for all of this) agreeing to vote for the BE to retain its AQ. Seems reasonable and, even if it is not part of a deal, I think the Big East will keep its autobid for the foreseeable future.

On a totally unrelated note, I think one of the more underreported events going on right now is the fact that the state of Texas is probably going to end up having 7 AQ teams within the next few years (Texas, Tech, A&M, Baylor, TCU, SMU, and Houston) and how that is going to play out with recruiting for out of state teams that have traditionally made hay in Texas. I imagine that SMU and Houston are going to become forces if they play in an even more diminished Big East while recruiting with an AQ tag.

That's fine and all, but if those 3 teams, plus TCU leave the Big East, my school is down 4 games. Where in the blue hell do you think we're getting replacement games from?

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by General Mike

That's fine and all, but if those 3 teams, plus TCU leave the Big East, my school is down 4 games. Where in the blue hell do you think we're getting replacement games from?

Duke?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

If it is for football only, the travel wouldn't be that bad. Figure that, if Boise does come aboard, they will likely form a division with SMU, Houston, Air Force, and probably (at most) some teams like Louisville or Memphis or Cincy. They will only travel for 4 or 5 games in a conference schedule, with one likely being in Texas each year and another being in Colorado every other year. There won't be many bus trips, but are there really that many for them now?

That was part of the argument against WVU leaving for the Big 12, but with Pitt leaving and VPI and Temple already gone, Cincy was the only other BE team that football would bus to now.

As a casual BSU fan I hate it - it just seems like another short-sighted move that will have to be "corrected" in a couple of years when the Big East inevitably loses its AQ status, or when we get some other new postseason system. I mean, the ONLY reason, whatsoever, for BSU to move is the AQ status, every other conceivable decisions point would fall against a change....And BSU as already reached a point where if they're undefeated, they get into the BCS, and if they don't, they don't, and that doesn't change all that much in the Big East. If I'm BSU, I only do it if they bowl me over with some kind of Texas-esque favorable treatment

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by molson

As a casual BSU fan I hate it - it just seems like another short-sighted move that will have to be "corrected" in a couple of years when the Big East inevitably loses its AQ status, or when we get some other new postseason system. I mean, the ONLY reason, whatsoever, for BSU to move is the AQ status, every other conceivable decisions point would fall against a change....And BSU as already reached a point where if they're undefeated, they get into the BCS, and if they don't, they don't, and that doesn't change all that much in the Big East. If I'm BSU, I only do it if they bowl me over with some kind of Texas-esque favorable treatment

I think BSU has to accept an invite to the BE, but one condition should be that if the BE loses its AQ status, BSU can leave the conference without paying an exit fee. Considering the mass exodus going on right now and the quality of teams that have left/are leaving the BE, BSU appears to be in a position as a top 1 or 2 team in that conference for the foreseeable future.

Also keeping in mind the absurdity of the MWC/Conf USA "superconference" that does nothing for a team like BSU except force them to play an even more pathetic conference schedule and league title game just to get to a BCS bowl, which they don't have to do now. Yes they may face that in the BE, but the competition in the BE is still much better after all of this than it will ever be in the MWC with the exodus of TCU, BYU, and probably Air Force.

[timmynausea]

Thought this was interesting from the latest Dennis Dodd column:

It comes down to West Virginia’s average 2.6 television rating over the past five years as opposed to 2.1 for Louisville. That half-rating point equals half a million television homes. That’s according to an industry source who had the numbers in front of him for all 120 FBS schools.

The FBS average rating is 2.2 In other words, Louisville is an average TV draw. West Virginia is an above average draw.

Big 12 inventory becomes more valuable because of West Virginia-Texas and West Virginia-Oklahoma. Louisville doesn’t move the needle as much. According the industry source, that 2.1 Louisville rating was boosted significantly by a pair of two five-year-old results – games in 2006 against West Virginia and Rutgers.

[Swaggs]

This could be posturing or could allow for a lot of the Big East's dirty laundry to air: West Virginia filing suit vs. Big East - CBSSports.com

[timmynausea]

Tweet from McMurphy:

West Virginia to file suit against Big East so it may join Big 12 next year, according to document obtained by @CBSSports

And a couple of follow up tweets by WVU radio guy Hoppy Kercheval:

WVU suit against BE claims "lack of leadership, breach of fudiciary duties by the Big East and its commissioner."

More on suit. WVU believes "that the Big East will lose it's position as an AQ conference"...accordingly, the BE "breached their contract."

[timmynausea]

And here's a snippet from a more detailed article:

The action represents an aggressive strategy by WVU to try to get out of the Big East. The University did not wait for the Big East to sue WVU for its planned departure. Instead, it trumped the league by filing its own action in a local court that could be more favorable to WVU.

In the suit, WVU claims that the league and its commissioner failed to keep the conference viable as football schools left or planned to leave. “The Big East and its Commissioner failed to take proactive measures to maintain, let alone enhance, the level of competition for the Big East football schools,” the suit claims.

WVU Sues Big East - West Virginia Headline News and Talk Radio

[Swaggs]

One of the most interesting things to see is if/how they substantiate the rumored deal with ESPN that would have ripped up the last 2+ years of the pitiful TV contract and paid the Big East football teams a figure similar to what the ACC was making. Turning that down with Marinatto basically boasting about how much money the Big East would make on the open market and how the Big East may be in a position to poach other BCS teams, nudged ESPN into reportedly suggesting that the ACC expand with Pitt/Cuse in exchange for an updated deal (why pay the 21 ACC + Big East teams a fortune each, when you can only pay 14 ACC teams and kick the legs out from under the rest?). Also reports that NBC, through Notre Dame, suggested that they would outbid ESPN if/when the Big East made it to the open market.

That, and failing to expand (beyond the pathetic, half-assed attempt by Villanova to move up) and create a larger, more stable league that could have withstood some losses, because the non-football teams did not want to lose voting power are what really killed the league off. If Houston and Central Florida and another team or two had already been in the conference and recruiting BCS caliber recruits, they could have absorbed the losses without missing much.

The interesting thing to follow is that I have heard that WVU's AD and president (along with Pitt's and Rutgers') in wanting the Big East to hit the open market to make ESPN bid alongside NBC and Fox.

[timmynausea]

I think the two real keys to the lawsuit are:

-TCU was allowed to waive the 27 month period without penalty.

-Pitt supposedly divulged that they were offered a deal of a $21 million exit fee to waive the 27 month period.

Between those two, I can't see the Big East being able to hold WVU to the rule, and I'd guess the Big East will settle quickly. Being proactive and getting this all handled in a WV court looks pretty genius, too.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

I think the two real keys to the lawsuit are:

-TCU was allowed to waive the 27 month period without penalty.

-Pitt supposedly divulged that they were offered a deal of a $21 million exit fee to waive the 27 month period.

Between those two, I can't see the Big East being able to hold WVU to the rule, and I'd guess the Big East will settle quickly. Being proactive and getting this all handled in a WV court looks pretty genius, too.

Which of course opens up the door to SU and Pitt

[Ksyrup]

BryanDFischer Bryan Fischer
Also interesting that WVU says Louisville, Rutgers and Cincinnati have had discussions with ACC, Big 12, SEC and Big 10.


BryanDFischer Bryan Fischer
Those comments from the UConn President/Governor keep looking worse and worse. They're in WVU's lawsuit among other things.

[Chubby]

I for one, am still waiting on Missouri's withdrawl from the Big 12

[Ragone]

I still think missouri should piss in texas's cheerios by announcing they are staying in the big 12.. giving them 11 teams..

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I for one, am still waiting on Missouri's withdrawl from the Big 12

They're still trying to decide which bidding conference they'll allow to join Missouri

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I for one, am still waiting on Missouri's withdrawl from the Big 12

You can join the entire state in that regard. Deaton pushed back his departure to India from today to Thursday. Most likely time to tie up the loose ends before he leaves town. So the new timeframe is Thursday until that gets moved.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You can join the entire state in that regard. Deaton pushed back his departure to India from today to Thursday. Most likely time to tie up the loose ends before he leaves town. So the new timeframe is Thursday until that gets moved.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Chubby

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Always look forward to your contributions to this thread as well. At least MBBF brings something to the table you just post the same stupid joke over and over.

[Swaggs]

Missouri is just trying to get as good of an exit deal as possible at this point. The fact that the SEC had the press release ready to go and the Big 12's press release announced that WVU would be joining all the teams, by name, except for Missouri pretty much tells you that they are gone.

[SirFozzie]

Man, considering the past between BC and various members of the Big East, this is a big ol' bowl of Schadenfrude (SchadenFruity?) Pebble. Hint to the remaining Big East Schools: There's a reason that FIVE teams have left or are going to leave you in the past ten years or so.

All that's left is for the basketball schools to admit defeat, and grab some of the Philly area teams (Temple for the Big Three connection with Nova etcetera) and form your Basketball schools only conference.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Missouri is just trying to get as good of an exit deal as possible at this point. The fact that the SEC had the press release ready to go and the Big 12's press release announced that WVU would be joining all the teams, by name, except for Missouri pretty much tells you that they are gone.

Mr. SEC says something along the same lines in his latest update.......

Homepage | MrSEC.com

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

. Hint to the remaining Big East Schools: There's a reason that FIVE teams have left or are going to leave you in the past ten years or so.

The only reason there are more than zero football programs left in the Big East is the remaining football schools have nowhere to go, right? At least, not without losing their membership in an AQ conference and accepting a serious downgrade in status.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Man, considering the past between BC and various members of the Big East, this is a big ol' bowl of Schadenfrude (SchadenFruity?) Pebble. Hint to the remaining Big East Schools: There's a reason that FIVE teams have left or are going to leave you in the past ten years or so.

All that's left is for the basketball schools to admit defeat, and grab some of the Philly area teams (Temple for the Big Three connection with Nova etcetera) and form your Basketball schools only conference.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The only reason there are more than zero football programs left in the Big East is the remaining football schools have nowhere to go, right? At least, not without losing their membership in an AQ conference and accepting a serious downgrade in status.

There's way too much money to lose. They're gonna hang with the ship or at least try to keep the rickety boat going, because there's absolutely no reason not to. Even if the writing is on the wall. You've got two years of guaranteed BCS status and so, even though this commissioner is the biggest joke east of the Missouri River, he has an obligation to keep the football league intact somehow.

Saying "sorry guys, go to the MAC/C-USA/MWC" isn't a realistic option so long as you've got members who need a landing spot. So this line of thinking doesn't cut it. You have to fight until it's official, because it's a far easier to lose BCS status - aka, no one has yet - than it is to gain it. If you're already in the club, it's not going to be as simple as "hey, let's take their bid away." Especially the BCS isn't the NCAA. They can do whatever they want and will. MWC hasn't earned a bid or even the right to petition for an exemption.

It might be on life support, but it's not dead yet.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I for one, am still waiting on Missouri's withdrawl from the Big 12

I thought the Big 12 had already kicked them out? Didn't all the WVU press essentially exclude Missouri from any future Big 12 dealings? Did I miss the discussion of that already?

[I. J. Reilly]

Is ESPN the main force behind realignment in college sports? – USATODAY.com

Kind of an interesting read, though nothing we didn't already know. It is always entertaining hearing a ESPN exec claim that they are just watching the whole thing from the sidelines like everyone else. Of course you are.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

They're still trying to decide which bidding conference they'll allow to join Missouri

Is this like that reality show where they all receive roses except the one that was left out? Or is it more like musical chairs where the last major conference to fill up and deny Mizzou gets stuck with their stinking carcass in one of their divisions?

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Is this like that reality show where they all receive roses except the one that was left out? Or is it more like musical chairs where the last major conference to fill up and deny Mizzou gets stuck with their stinking carcass in one of their divisions?

SI

I don't think any KU fans should reference stinking carcasses during football season.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I don't think any KU fans should reference stinking carcasses during football season.

I think we've got decent (not great) odds to snap our 7 game streak of giving up 42 or more this week. Then again, the Cyclones just put up 41 on Tech in Lubbock- WTF? That said, if they put up 42 on us- we need to run the table. We need to give up 42+ the rest of the way to Baylor, A&M, and Mizzou- then I can complain about how only giving up 24 to McNeese State killed our season.

SI

[Swaggs]

Thought this was kind of funny -- Rich Rod on contracts and WVU suing the Big East:

[Toddzilla]

That's great. WVU are biggest bunch of lying asshole hypocrites in college sports.

[Easy Mac]

Why would Boise go to the Big East. I can't imagine a conference of the following would really get AQ status.

Cincinatti
Louisville
Rutgers
UConn
USF
Boise St.
Navy
Air Force
SMU
Houston
UCF

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Why would Boise go to the Big East. I can't imagine a conference of the following would really get AQ status.

It doesn't have to get AQ status, it simply has to retain AQ status.

The criteria for those two things are apparently different (best I can tell the exact formula for retention isn't even known/published, while the details of how to gain AQ status finally came out in the past year or so)

[Butter]

I would think this is the best possible world for the BCS, actually. Because it would eliminate Boise getting one of those pesky auto-spots for non-BCS schools every year that they seem to get by finishing in the polls so highly. They would simply either be the Big East's rep, or they wouldn't be in at all, allowing the BCS to get an actual team it wants like another name school that finishes in the top 10 or something like that.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I would think this is the best possible world for the BCS, actually. Because it would eliminate Boise getting one of those pesky auto-spots for non-BCS schools every year that they seem to get by finishing in the polls so highly. They would simply either be the Big East's rep, or they wouldn't be in at all, allowing the BCS to get an actual team it wants like another name school that finishes in the top 10 or something like that.

But something like that is accomplished by taking away the Big East's AQ status and giving it to the comglomerated Mountain West WAC MAC mess.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

(best I can tell the exact formula for retention isn't even known/published, while the details of how to gain AQ status finally came out in the past year or so)

I believe the formula for retention is known - has to do with the average highest BCS ranking over a 5 year period. Just not necessarily published to the public.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I believe the formula for retention is known - has to do with the average highest BCS ranking over a 5 year period. Just not necessarily published to the public.

That's kind of where I'm fuzzy: is it actually known for sure or is it just highly speculated about, based on various "sources" or whatever.

That speculation-then-revealed seems to have been the case with the new-AQ formula for a while, then it was released officially (or confirmed or whatever).

[bronconick]

The BCS's goal is to be in a position where Boise State takes the Big East bid, pretty much shutting the door on obvious year to year outside teams. (Sure, Houston could slide to the top 12 this year, but it's no guarantee, and they're not an annual threat to do so like TCU and Boise were becoming), they add the Cotton Bowl at Jerry's World to the rotation and eliminate the limit on teams per conference.

Edit: If Boise doesn't join the Big East, I could see them changing the AQ rules to the "top 6 conference champions without bowl tie ins" (Rose: Big Ten/Pac 12, Orange: ACC, Sugar: SEC, Fiesta/Cotton: Big XII) or something semi-scandalous to keep the bid available for the Big East remainders, but you better be better than C-USA.

[molson]

I'd be pretty psyched if Boise St. jumped immediately, and Syracuse was delayed for a year or two, and I got one Boise St/'Cuse game in Boise.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

I'd watch that just to see if Syracuse would go with a solid orange uni to offset Boise in solid blue on that turf. Pretty sure my TV would explode, but it would be worth it.

that would be awesome

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That's kind of where I'm fuzzy: is it actually known for sure or is it just highly speculated about, based on various "sources" or whatever.

That speculation-then-revealed seems to have been the case with the new-AQ formula for a while, then it was released officially (or confirmed or whatever).

Jon is right. There is no stated rules for removing a conference in the BCS bylaws. Just adding a new league.

This direct from the BCS bylaws:

Under the terms of the agreements with the bowls and television rightsholder, the ACC, Big East, Big 10, Big 12, Pac-12 and SEC will have annual automatic qualification for their champions for the 2010-11, 2011-12, 2012-13 and 2013-14 seasons.

Results from the 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 regular seasons will be evaluated to determine whether a seventh conference earns automatic qualification for the 2012-13 and 2013-14 bowl games.

There's nothing stated about after 2013-14, because it hasn't been written yet. The bylaws don't discuss removing a league, just whether one could be added. The BCS leagues have canniballized the upstarts TCU, Utah and now Boise State and so, the threat that was there a few years ago is less so now. Especially if SMU and Houston are also included. BYU would be the only one outside the club...BYU would be the only one outside and they could get in if they wanted (the Big East surely would have them as a football only)

When all of this was drawn up, there was no fathoming that a league would erode to the point of no longer being able to survive at the high level. But with this cannibalization, it should be enough to stave off talk of cutting the Big East out. And to be frank, if the basketball league and football league split into two different governance structures and changed the name of the Big East to something reasonable, seems people would still howl, but less so at the nomenclature.