NBA Draft Lottery/Draft/Offseason thread.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Arles

If I had to pay $4 million to come to the NBA, I'd probably be pretty picky about the team. The last thing you want to do is spend $4-5 million of yours (or your handler's) money only to play backup to another rookie for the first few seasons. Then, the media kills you for being a "bust" and you have a sabotaged career.

The Minnesota Rubio-Flynn picks smell funny and I wouldn't be in a hurry to join Minnesota either if I were Rubio. Let them sort this out and if it turns out they want to keep both Flynn and himself, why not play another year in Europe and save the buyout? If you have leverage, you are silly not to use it - especially in a situation that stinks like this Minnesota "we love you but we drafted two other PGs (Flynn, FL kid) we plan on keeping" crud. Could you imagine paying $4 million to come play for Minnesota - only to play 3rd string (or even go the D-League) because they are going with Flynn and another guy for this season?

There's ZERO chance Rubio would be sent to the NBDL - I can't even see how he would play behind Flynn and if he can't beat out Flynn then Rubio isn't anything but hype because Flynn isn't that good. In fact most of the draftees aren't that good. There's absolutely no way Rubio backs up Flynn - who are they going to play? Flynn and Telfair? Flynn and Ellington?

If he doesn't want to deal with the buyout then he should have just finished his contract and then entered the draft - not entered the draft and basically say I want teams a,b or c to trade up to #2 to pick me or else I'm not playing which is what he's doing. Or he should have just played in Europe until he's old enough to bypass the draft and then he could have hand picked his team - which of course he could do if he just didn't say anything, got drafted #2 and then left after the contract. He's pissed - he and his agent figured they played their hand correctly to force themselves to Sacramento and it backfired and cost him a few million - he lost enough money over the length of the rookie contract to more than pay for the buyout. I'm sure Blake Griffin's not thrilled to be going to such an outstanding franchise as the Clippers who have Zach Randolph, Chris Kaman and Marcus Camby all in the post already but he's not complaining or threatening to not play.

Personally I think Minnesota should have just taken Rubio and then Curry but they must like Flynn and figured they could get something more valuable than Curry in trading Rubio. Sacramento probably would have taken him if there wasn't so much drama. I mean the Kings have a huge hole at PG and chose to fill it with a shoot first, turnover prone two guard who just got thrown into the point this season in college while passing on a kid who has been hyped for over a year as a truer than true point guard with the passing likes of Maravich even when Sacramento was one of the possibly acceptable locations for him. What does that say?

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Arles

"we love you but we drafted two other PGs (Flynn, FL kid) we plan on keeping"

BTW, Minnesota traded Calathes (FL kid) to Dallas (who is signed in Greece anyways and wouldn't be here until the 2010/11 season at earliest) so its just Rubio and Flynn they ended up with.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They committed to play there in 2011 and they will be starting to build the arena in a few months. They've also been fighting it heavily in court (and winning). I just think if they can get Lebron, it makes a ton of sense for everyone.

i heard the nets are moving to brooklyn right before the penguins move to kansas city

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

There's ZERO chance Rubio would be sent to the NBDL - I can't even see how he would play behind Flynn and if he can't beat out Flynn then Rubio isn't anything but hype because Flynn isn't that good. In fact most of the draftees aren't that good. There's absolutely no way Rubio backs up Flynn - who are they going to play? Flynn and Telfair? Flynn and Ellington?

If he doesn't want to deal with the buyout then he should have just finished his contract and then entered the draft - not entered the draft and basically say I want teams a,b or c to trade up to #2 to pick me or else I'm not playing which is what he's doing. Or he should have just played in Europe until he's old enough to bypass the draft and then he could have hand picked his team - which of course he could do if he just didn't say anything, got drafted #2 and then left after the contract. He's pissed - he and his agent figured they played their hand correctly to force themselves to Sacramento and it backfired and cost him a few million - he lost enough money over the length of the rookie contract to more than pay for the buyout. I'm sure Blake Griffin's not thrilled to be going to such an outstanding franchise as the Clippers who have Zach Randolph, Chris Kaman and Marcus Camby all in the post already but he's not complaining or threatening to not play.

Personally I think Minnesota should have just taken Rubio and then Curry but they must like Flynn and figured they could get something more valuable than Curry in trading Rubio. Sacramento probably would have taken him if there wasn't so much drama. I mean the Kings have a huge hole at PG and chose to fill it with a shoot first, turnover prone two guard who just got thrown into the point this season in college while passing on a kid who has been hyped for over a year as a truer than true point guard with the passing likes of Maravich even when Sacramento was one of the possibly acceptable locations for him. What does that say?

best analysis ever!

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

There's ZERO chance Rubio would be sent to the NBDL - I can't even see how he would play behind Flynn and if he can't beat out Flynn then Rubio isn't anything but hype because Flynn isn't that good. In fact most of the draftees aren't that good. There's absolutely no way Rubio backs up Flynn

I could easily seeing Skiles starting Flynn. His job is on the line and he's not going to want to sit and watch an 18-year old Euro turn the ball over 5-6 times a game as he "adjusts" to the speed of the NBA. Flynn is more polished right now and the reality is that traditional NBA coaches (like Skiles) don't like playing young european guys big minutes. It's been the case with nearly every under 20 Euro import. At best, he gets 20 MPG a la Dirk.

who are they going to play? Flynn and Telfair? Flynn and Ellington?

Flynn and Brewer I would guess. Scott Skiles is not putting out 2 rookie PGs as his starting backcourt unless the owner holds a gun to his head.

If he doesn't want to deal with the buyout then he should have just finished his contract and then entered the draft - not entered the draft and basically say I want teams a,b or c to trade up to #2 to pick me or else I'm not playing which is what he's doing. Or he should have just played in Europe until he's old enough to bypass the draft and then he could have hand picked his team - which of course he could do if he just didn't say anything, got drafted #2 and then left after the contract. He's pissed - he and his agent figured they played their hand correctly to force themselves to Sacramento and it backfired and cost him a few million - he lost enough money over the length of the rookie contract to more than pay for the buyout. I'm sure Blake Griffin's not thrilled to be going to such an outstanding franchise as the Clippers who have Zach Randolph, Chris Kaman and Marcus Camby all in the post already but he's not complaining or threatening to not play.

The system is what it is. US coaches don't like playing young Euros and Euros have buyout/overseas options to counter that. If the Clippers told Blake that he was going to have to play 20 MPG behind Randolph for the first two seasons and Griffin had options to force their hand - you don't think he would?

Teams knew the leverage Rubio had and Minnesota decided to be a bonehead and draft a PG right after they drafted him. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Rubio wasn't going to like that. Minnesota knowingly gambled by taking Rubio and Flynn back-to-back. If Rubio decides not to fork over his own money to join the Wolves, they lost that gamble.

Personally I think Minnesota should have just taken Rubio and then Curry but they must like Flynn and figured they could get something more valuable than Curry in trading Rubio.

Then they should trade Rubio and everything will work out. But you can't complain when an 18-year old kid with options decides not to pay $4-5 million to join a crappy Wolves team who drafted another PG right after him and may limit his minutes.

Sacramento probably would have taken him if there wasn't so much drama. I mean the Kings have a huge hole at PG and chose to fill it with a shoot first, turnover prone two guard who just got thrown into the point this season in college while passing on a kid who has been hyped for over a year as a truer than true point guard with the passing likes of Maravich even when Sacramento was one of the possibly acceptable locations for him. What does that say?

That Sacramento was scared to go with a younger PG. I don't fault Rubio for the fact that the Kings were worried about developing Rubio and instead went with the more NBA ready body of Evans. Was it Chris Paul's fault that three teams (including Utah with Williams) chose other guys before him?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Arles

But you can't complain when an 18-year old kid with options decides not to pay $4-5 million to join a crappy Wolves team who drafted another PG right after him and may limit his minutes.

Well, technically anyone can complain about it, it just doesn't make any rational sense to do so

[RainMaker]

Call the kid's bluff. The goal for most young stars is to build up the years as quick as possible so they can become free agents. If Rubio wants to sit in Europe for another year and hold off on his payday (as well as potentially hurt his draft stock), I say let him.

The kid is bluffing.

[Arles]

I don't know. If he saves $5 million by staying in Europe, you could argue he's gotten himself another payday.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Arles

I don't know. If he saves $5 million by staying in Europe, you could argue he's gotten himself another payday.

It's still delaying a year till he gets the real payday. All that matters to young players (especially guys Rubio's age) are reaching that free agent time when they can cash in. Then we're talking $10m+ a year guaranteed.

If the kid wants to stay in Spain another year and risk adding a year on to the wait, then so be it. It's also a risk to his future draft stock, a huge PR hit, and the pressure of not wanting to get hurt.

Maybe he does it, but I think the T-Wolves are the ones with the leverage, not Rubio.

[Logan]

This isn't the NFL. No one makes enough in their rookie contract where you would be really risking anything by staying in college/overseas a year. Plus I'm guessing he's not exactly slumming it over there, in terms of quality of life or salary.

[Icy]

Wolves GM talked, seems they are fine waiting for Rubio a year or two...

http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/...om-david-kahn/

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's still delaying a year till he gets the real payday. All that matters to young players (especially guys Rubio's age) are reaching that free agent time when they can cash in. Then we're talking $10m+ a year guaranteed.

If the kid wants to stay in Spain another year and risk adding a year on to the wait, then so be it. It's also a risk to his future draft stock, a huge PR hit, and the pressure of not wanting to get hurt.

Maybe he does it, but I think the T-Wolves are the ones with the leverage, not Rubio.

Originally Posted by Logan

This isn't the NFL. No one makes enough in their rookie contract where you would be really risking anything by staying in college/overseas a year. Plus I'm guessing he's not exactly slumming it over there, in terms of quality of life or salary.

If I understand the NBA rules correctly, I think what RM is talking about here is that Rubio will have to live out a rookie contract before he gets his payday. Whether that starts this year, or two years from now - it's the same length. So, he's delaying potential money by not signing.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Arles

I could easily seeing Skiles starting Flynn. His job is on the line and he's not going to want to sit and watch an 18-year old Euro turn the ball over 5-6 times a game as he "adjusts" to the speed of the NBA. Flynn is more polished right now and the reality is that traditional NBA coaches (like Skiles) don't like playing young european guys big minutes. It's been the case with nearly every under 20 Euro import. At best, he gets 20 MPG a la Dirk.

Well Skiles will sit his rookie PG - but his is Jennings and that will be fun because Jennings is going to drive Skiles crazy. When the T-wolves do hire their coach he'll probably get at least one free pass considering the team is so young. And Flynn is a turnover waiting to happen until he learns to play under control.

Originally Posted by Arles

The system is what it is. US coaches don't like playing young Euros and Euros have buyout/overseas options to counter that. If the Clippers told Blake that he was going to have to play 20 MPG behind Randolph for the first two seasons and Griffin had options to force their hand - you don't think he would?

Teams knew the leverage Rubio had and Minnesota decided to be a bonehead and draft a PG right after they drafted him. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Rubio wasn't going to like that. Minnesota knowingly gambled by taking Rubio and Flynn back-to-back. If Rubio decides not to fork over his own money to join the Wolves, they lost that gamble.

I think the problem is that more often than not young Euros don't look very good playing in the NBA. I don't think any coach held the likes of Darko Milicic back nor do I recall anyone having much trouble getting Gasol on the floor. That's a talent issue - not a Euro issue.

Frankly I don't think that should be a hostage chip for a European player. Why should a US college player have to give up his eligibility to enter the draft but a European player can hold onto his backup plan in case things go south?

Originally Posted by Arles

Then they should trade Rubio and everything will work out. But you can't complain when an 18-year old kid with options decides not to pay $4-5 million to join a crappy Wolves team who drafted another PG right after him and may limit his minutes.

I might buy that argument if a) he wasn't equally willing to join equally crappy Sacramento and New York teams and b) if someone was actually going to hold back his minutes. Nobody's guaranteed him anything one way or the other - he could just as easily start the season behind Duhon in NY or could have been behind Udrih in Sacramento.

Originally Posted by Arles

That Sacramento was scared to go with a younger PG. I don't fault Rubio for the fact that the Kings were worried about developing Rubio and instead went with the more NBA ready body of Evans. Was it Chris Paul's fault that three teams (including Utah with Williams) chose other guys before him?

Evans left after his frosh year - he's a year older than Rubio so I don't think age had anything to do with it - especially when one of Rubio's supposed big selling points is that he's been playing professionally for four years. Evans isn't even a real point guard. I think the only reason Sacramento passed on him was because he and his agent screwed around so much between the demands, the buyout, the back and forth about coming to the NBA, the junk he talked about the Kings facilities - he acted like a primadonna from start to finish. I don't know of any outlet that thought Rubio wasn't the 2nd best talent in the draft. Its within his rights to use his contract status as leverage...but he leveraged himself 3 picks lower and a few million less to a bad team who now has the leverage of his NBA future in their hands.

Minnesota will trade him because they know they don't have any other choice but they better make the Knicks pay for it. As nice as it would be for one team in one sport to tell one of these draftees "forget it, we drafted you, you play for us or nobody" at the end of the day none of them will ever do it because nobody can afford to simply waste those picks. At least he wasn't able to force the trade before hand so he'll lose out on a few million for the whole charade.

[jbergey22]

Well the Twolves were trying to trade into the #2 spot to draft Rubio so Id assume they really like him. I am honestly not sure what is going on at this point. I think they took Flynn based on value however it seems Rubio is the one they plan on trading so I just dont get it. Twolves had so many chances with this draft and it looks like they arent getting anything but cash and replacement picks when they had a chance to add a lot to the team.

Last night it seemed as though they had a plan now after hearing things today it seems they were just caught off guard.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Icy

Wolves GM talked, seems they are fine waiting for Rubio a year or two...

On the Wolves » Blog Archive » A post-draft night letter from David Kahn

Interesting...I think its just posturing but he does say in the piece "He will be our starting point guard here the moment he walks through our front door. We may have to wait a year, or even two, but he is worth the wait"

So there's no PT issue, no issue of which guard spot he would have to play - if Kahn does call his bluff I will have mega-respect for him but I could just as easily see Rubio showing up and basically trying to force a trade once he does get here.

I really hope Rubio just decides to suck it up and play for the team that drafted him and do his best because he could be a really, really fun player to watch and the T-Wolves could turn into a decent team with him, Jefferson and Love.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

And what would motivate you to make such a statement?

Just my gut feeling from watching Carolina really. Ellington can be a good scorer, mainly as a jump shooter, and he ended up being a surprisingly good rebounder, which hopefully helps him out.

Green is a better defender, better shot blocker, better all around athlete and appears on the floor to work harder in every area of the game. Works harder to get back on defense, to get around screens, etc. I just think that *unless* Ellington develops into a great NBA scorer, which I would love to see but am not holding my breath, Danny Green offers more to a team.

Also, I think the perception with Green is that he was just a utility guy while Ellington was the star shooter, but Green was every bit the shooter Ellington was last year. Green shot 47.1% from the field, 85% from the line, and 41.8% from the 3 point line. Ellington shot 48.3% from the field, 77% from the line, 41.7% from 3. Ellington was 85-204 from 3 on the season, Green was 77-184.

Green's offensive output was almost equal to Ellington, and Green got twice as many steals and 10 times as many blocked shots. Green blocked more shots than anyone on the team except for Ed Davis, who is a shot blocking machine. 11 more blocks than the 6'8" PF Deon Thompson and 40 more than Hansbrough.


I like them both obviously and want all the Tar Heels to succeed in the NBA, but I really think Danny Green is more likely to have a solid, successful career than Ellington.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

If I understand the NBA rules correctly, I think what RM is talking about here is that Rubio will have to live out a rookie contract before he gets his payday. Whether that starts this year, or two years from now - it's the same length. So, he's delaying potential money by not signing.

Yeah I followed. My point was that, contrary to the NFL where coming out early nets you that huge contract, him staying in Spain, where he is earning a salary that I'm guessing (correct me if I'm wrong) is fairly substantial anyway, pushing his deal by a year could be very much worth it if he feels that by waiting it out, he'll end up in a situation where he will better position himself for that second contract (franchise, city, teammates, etc).

It's not like he's deciding between going to Minnesota or spending another year on campus, earning nothing and attending classes.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Well Skiles will sit his rookie PG - but his is Jennings and that will be fun because Jennings is going to drive Skiles crazy.

Yeah, not sure where Skiles and Minnesota came from. Still, I think Rubio is way too raw to get more than 25 MPG in the NBA right now - especially if you have other options.

I think the problem is that more often than not young Euros don't look very good playing in the NBA. I don't think any coach held the likes of Darko Milicic back nor do I recall anyone having much trouble getting Gasol on the floor. That's a talent issue - not a Euro issue.

I was talking about under 21 Euros. Gasol was 21 and fairly polished when he came here. The younger guys barely play - Belinelli got 7 MPG, Dirk got 20 MPG, Biedrins got 12, Pietrus got 14, Turkoglu got 16. All these guys were under 21 when they came over and all seem to be pretty solid players. Yet, none could break 20 MPG their first season. Usually it's because their bodies just aren't developed enough to take the pounding at 17-20 years old.

Frankly I don't think that should be a hostage chip for a European player. Why should a US college player have to give up his eligibility to enter the draft but a European player can hold onto his backup plan in case things go south?

The difference is that Europe is a pro league and US college is amateur. It's apples and oranges.

Evans left after his frosh year - he's a year older than Rubio so I don't think age had anything to do with it - especially when one of Rubio's supposed big selling points is that he's been playing professionally for four years.

I said "NBA ready body", it wasn't about age. Evans is 6-4, 225. Rubio is 6-4, 185.

Evans isn't even a real point guard. I think the only reason Sacramento passed on him was because he and his agent screwed around so much between the demands, the buyout, the back and forth about coming to the NBA, the junk he talked about the Kings facilities - he acted like a primadonna from start to finish. I don't know of any outlet that thought Rubio wasn't the 2nd best talent in the draft. Its within his rights to use his contract status as leverage...but he leveraged himself 3 picks lower and a few million less to a bad team who now has the leverage of his NBA future in their hands.

And if he's not happy with his status after the process, he can go back and play professionally in Europe (notice I didn't say he can go back as an amateur to Europe).

Minnesota will trade him because they know they don't have any other choice but they better make the Knicks pay for it.

Of course they have a choice, they could move Flynn.

As nice as it would be for one team in one sport to tell one of these draftees "forget it, we drafted you, you play for us or nobody" at the end of the day none of them will ever do it because nobody can afford to simply waste those picks. At least he wasn't able to force the trade before hand so he'll lose out on a few million for the whole charade.

So, let's say a 19-year old US player signs a deal in Spain to play for 2-3 seasons. Then, one year in, he decides to enter the NBA draft - isn't he doing the exact things to the Spanish team that you are lamenting that Rubio is doing to the NBA? Once you go pro, all bets are off. The system allows you to get drafted as a european pro, decide you don't like the situation and allow you to return to europe. It also allows for buyouts in the event you sign with Europe and want to play in the NBA before your contract ends.

The reality is if Rubio goes back to Europe, the Wolves still own his rights. So, it's not like they get "screwed" and he enters back into the draft pool next season. IMO, this is about as fair as you can get. If you are an amateur and get drafted, you have fewer options than a current professional who gets drafted and has a current agreement. It's the risk you take by drafting a professional in another league over an amateur.

[Chief Rum]

We should totally settle this debate with a text sim fight.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

We should totally settle this debate with a text sim fight.

well played.

[Arles]

Nah, my thing is once you become a professional, you should have more options than an amateur. If the NBA wants to require that once a player is drafted into the NBA they have to play - they can try. But, just be ready for Euros to start putting in enormous buy out clauses to stick it to those NBA teams.

[mckerney]

Ugh if Kahn is serious about not trading Rubio. Although it is kind of nice that it looks like his whining won't get him his way, I wish they could get something for him. At this point I'd almost prefer he stay in Spain, this team will be brutal if he comes in as a starting point guard and they try to play Flynn at 2, while still not having anyone to play 3 or 5. Looks like it'll be at least another 5 year before this team is worth caring about again.

[whomario]

Just so it´s on record here : It is incredibly ridiculous that NBA teams are allowed to pay 3 mios to buy a late first rounder or even a 2nd round pick (the Rockets paid 2,5 for Taylor ...) but only 500K to buy out a European that they drafted 5th. WTF ???
That right there is the single most ilogical thing in relation to Draft rules in the NBA.

btw : http://twitter.com/Kevin_love

I wonder why no one from the Wolves has told him to shut the hell up yet ? It´s like Shaq on speed that babbling of his about things you better should keep your mouth shut about for a while as a player ... But it´s great entertainment On a serious note : They should fly the guy to spain ASAP, his personality might just enable him to convince Rubio to come over.

and for the most obscure pick of the night, Christian Eyenga : If nothing else the Cavs have found themselves a potential All Star, as a slam dunk participant : YouTube - Christian Eyenga: Amazing
weak competition and all, but that´s some major hops ... He´s played mostly for Rubio´s club´s "farm team" in spains 3rd division.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by whomario

Just so it´s on record here : It is incredibly ridiculous that NBA teams are allowed to pay 3 mios to buy a late first rounder or even a 2nd round pick (the Rockets paid 2,5 for Taylor ...) but only 500K to buy out a European that they drafted 5th. WTF ???
That right there is the single most ilogical thing in relation to Draft rules in the NBA.

Where did you see the numbers for how much the Rockets paid for their draft picks? I was trying to find that last night and all I saw was "cash considerations"

SI

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by whomario

Just so it´s on record here : It is incredibly ridiculous that NBA teams are allowed to pay 3 mios to buy a late first rounder or even a 2nd round pick (the Rockets paid 2,5 for Taylor ...) but only 500K to buy out a European that they drafted 5th. WTF ???
That right there is the single most ilogical thing in relation to Draft rules in the NBA.

The 500k limit is in there to keep European teams from putting in huge buyouts similar to soccer transfer fees.

[RainMaker]

How long does Minnesota retain the rights to Rubio?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How long does Minnesota retain the rights to Rubio?

Until they trade them away.

[Icy]

On an unexpected twist, the Spanish press is saying that Real Madrid has offered to pay Ricky his buyout if he stays in Spain and signs with them for more than one year.

Not sure if you guys are following soccer, but R.Madrid got a new owner that has expended already over $150Million on buying the contracts of two soccer players this month, they want to do the same with their basketball team, buying the best players (that want to play in Europe) to create an all star team.

This makes things more complicated, as it could be tempting for Rubio to take that offer, play in a top Euro team and league contender for a huge contract, and then in two years, to go to the NBA.

[Big Fo]

omg Kevin Love's twitter is awesome. When and if Rubio signs for them they are my Western Conference team.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Until they trade them away.

Which truly does make this interesting - the Wolves are going to be a bad team regardless of whether Rubio is playing for them or not. They can essentially let Rubio continue to develop in Spain for two years while they attempt to develop Flynn here. If Flynn looks good then they've got a nice young PG to trade that they've showcased for two seasons and could potentially get a very nice return for him and then bring Rubio in to run the team once its ready to compete.

The problem with trying to trade Flynn right now is that I don't think anyone is that high on him. Is he that much better than Jennings or Holliday? The Knicks could have had either of them at 8. Rubio is by far the most talented PG in the draft and they could get some very nice pieces for him if they move him - that's why I say they're stuck having to trade him - unless of course they're willing to sit on him in Europe.

[RainMaker]

I actually think it works out in Minnesota's favor if he does stay in Europe for a couple years. They don't have to start the clock on him becoming an unrestricted free agent till he's 20 and he'll still be developing. I love how Kahn is calling their bluff and going around to all the media outlets and telling them that they have no problem with Rubio staying in Europe for a couple years.

[Big Fo]

It seems likely that Hedo Turkoglu will be playing for someone other than the Magic next season.

Magic General Manager Otis Smith told the Sentinel that he made Turkoglu a "decent" initial offer before receiving Turkoglu's official letter this week notifying the team he had opted out of his contract.

Smith didn't go into details, but said that Thursday's acquisition of Carter — an eight-time all-star — will make re-signing Turkoglu something of a long-shot.

"It would be hard," Smith said.

If the end effect is losing Lee/Alston/Battie/Turk for Carter/Anderson then I'm not as happy with the Carter trade.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

If the end effect is losing Lee/Alston/Battie/Turk for Carter/Anderson then I'm not as happy with the Carter trade.

I'm not sure that's an entirely fair as it wasn't a guarantee Turk was staying put as is.

SI

[Arles]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I actually think it works out in Minnesota's favor if he does stay in Europe for a couple years. They don't have to start the clock on him becoming an unrestricted free agent till he's 20 and he'll still be developing. I love how Kahn is calling their bluff and going around to all the media outlets and telling them that they have no problem with Rubio staying in Europe for a couple years.

Yeah, I think everyone wins with Rubio staying in Spain another year or two.

Phoenix news sources are now reporting the Golden State deal for Amare as dead since Golden State wont part with either Steph Curry or Anthony Randolph in a deal. I still don't understand everyone's love affair with Curry - he's a nice complimentary piece, but he won't ever be able to guard 2s and it would be crazy to have Nash/Barbosa and Curry in the same backcourt. In some ways I hope Phoenix moves Amare and starts over, but if it's just for another glorified Shaq poo-poo platter, they may as well keep him. Once the buyout for Wallace goes through, they should be under the tax with a ton of space in 2010.

[Arles]

A Phoenix beat writer just posted this update:

When Minnesota picked Jonny Flynn with the sixth pick Thursday night, the Suns basketball operations office erupted in elation audible from a floor below. They had their guy ... or at least they thought they did and still believe they do.

The Suns had an agreement in principle with Golden State about a deal that would send Amaré Stoudemire to the Warriors for Andris Biedrins, Brandan Wright, Marco Belinelli and the No. 7 pick. It was the Suns' understanding that the Warriors were drafting Curry for them.

But with Biedrins' base-year compensation status, a deal can't be completed immediately because his cap number is lower than his actual $9 million salary until July. The Suns were expecting to have to wait about two weeks (until July 8) for the deal to be completed.

That is a lot of time, especially when there already is a lot of talk out of Golden State about the Warriors keeping Curry. That about-face apparently would nix the deal for the Suns.

I don't think we'll be seeing many Phoenix-Golden State deals from here on out if this ends up being the case. As much as I've bagged on Curry, if you have a deal in principle (only waiting because of NBA rules for BYC) then reneg later that night - I doubt that helps your credibility in the league (esp with Phoenix).

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

It seems likely that Hedo Turkoglu will be playing for someone other than the Magic next season.



If the end effect is losing Lee/Alston/Battie/Turk for Carter/Anderson then I'm not as happy with the Carter trade.

but if turk was leaving anyways presumably then you have to split that off of that

[Neon_Chaos]

I actually think that Turk was going to opt out no matter what. It's all about leverage and getting the most bang for your buck.

[stevew]

yeah, it was common knowledge he was going to opt out. They probably figured it's easier to trade contracts and overpay Vince for one extra year, as opposed to giving Hedo something rediculous like 5/65. They already have Lewis retarded overpaid for the long term.

I actually like the move for the Magic, you can get a lot of guys who do stuff like Hedo. Maybe not as good, but they'll certainly not cost you a super long deal.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

The 500k limit is in there to keep European teams from putting in huge buyouts similar to soccer transfer fees.

That´s a pretty arogant asumption by the league that the NBA would influence this and not the big Euro teams as it is the case in reality.
There´s gonna be big and huge buyout regardless of the NBA rules in this matter ...

btw : Has anyone considered that it would be followed by huge legal problems and giving Joventud (his current team) a lot of leverage in keeping the buyout as high as it is ("wait, we wanted to cooperate, but then he started breaking his contract time after time") if he attended a press conference with his new team without having his buyout reolved ?
Theres a case of a spanish footballer in 05/06 who did just that and it ended up with him sitting out his contract (with a huge buyout) and then the new team having to pay 5 mio after his contract was up, as ordered by a judge.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by whomario

That´s a pretty arogant asumption by the league that the NBA would influence this and not the big Euro teams as it is the case in reality.
There´s gonna be big and huge buyout regardless of the NBA rules in this matter ...

btw : Has anyone considered that it would be followed by huge legal problems and giving Joventud (his current team) a lot of leverage in keeping the buyout as high as it is ("wait, we wanted to cooperate, but then he started breaking his contract time after time") if he attended a press conference with his new team without having his buyout reolved ?
Theres a case of a spanish footballer in 05/06 who did just that and it ended up with him sitting out his contract (with a huge buyout) and then the new team having to pay 5 mio after his contract was up, as ordered by a judge.

That is why it's said that Rubio didn't attend the Min presentation, that could be an issue with his current lawsuit.

[Karlifornia]

Dear Warriors,

Don't trade for Amare. I'd rather watch a 30 win team for another season than have him and his soon to be stupid contract on the books.

Thanks,
Karl

[stevew]

Hey Karl,

If that's not a bad enough thought, think about cringing every time you see Amar'e spelled out.

Thanks

Stev'e

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by stevew

Hey Karl,

If that's not a bad enough thought, think about cringing every time you see Amar'e spelled out.

Thanks

Stev'e

Dear Stev'e,

Is his official name Amar'e Stoudemir'e?

Appreciatively,
Kar'l

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by whomario

That´s a pretty arrogant assumption by the league that the NBA would influence this and not the big Euro teams as it is the case in reality.
There´s gonna be big and huge buyout regardless of the NBA rules in this matter ...

As long as NBA teams are capped it effectively limits the amount of a buyout to roughly equal to what the player will earn from his rookie contract. If the equivalent of LeBron was playing from Europe, the max buyout would still be 7-8 million, while if NBA teams had no cap theoretically a
Euro team could put a 100 million+ buyout on him. The NBA, for all its faults, doesn't want to end up with a draft similar to baseball where only the biggest markets can afford a top player.

It's also just smart economics from the NBA's point of view. Why bother negotiating with and paying a European team when you can force the player to do it themselves?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Dear Stev'e,

Is his official name Amar'e Stoudemir'e?

Appreciatively,
Kar'l

My friend teaches a girl named L-a (Ladashay). I'm naming my kid J' (Japostraphay).

[DaddyTorgo]

wouldn't that be La-a (l a dash a)

[RainMaker]

The problem for Rubio is that if he stays in Europe for two years, he doesn't become a free agent till he's 26 or so. Otherwise he becomes one at 24. That's two years of a big payday in his prime. Lets say he's as good as advertised and makes $12 million a year. He'd essentially be giving up $24 million by staying in Spain. Something he won't be able to make in these two years in Spain.

[Arles]

Most deals are 4-year deals with a qualifying offer (that no good player every plays for) on the 4th. So, if Rubio goes to Europe for 2 years, he will be back in summer of 2011 at 20 years old. That means he will make $4-6 million each year until he's 24 and then he will get his first non-rookie deal.

Here's another way to spin it. Rubio at 24 is likely to be a lot more polished and will probably be a better player. If you were Rubio, wouldn't you rather have no money owed for a buyout and be going into your first major contract after your 24th birthday? Instead of forking out $4-5 mil and going into it after your 22nd birthday. There's a chance he's a $10 mil+ guy at 24-25, that's pretty doubtful at 22.

[Big Fo]

I hadn't thought of that it way Arles, it's a very complicated situation for Rubio.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Arles

Most deals are 4-year deals with a qualifying offer (that no good player every plays for) on the 4th. So, if Rubio goes to Europe for 2 years, he will be back in summer of 2011 at 20 years old. That means he will make $4-6 million each year until he's 24 and then he will get his first non-rookie deal.

Here's another way to spin it. Rubio at 24 is likely to be a lot more polished and will probably be a better player. If you were Rubio, wouldn't you rather have no money owed for a buyout and be going into your first major contract after your 24th birthday? Instead of forking out $4-5 mil and going into it after your 22nd birthday. There's a chance he's a $10 mil+ guy at 24-25, that's pretty doubtful at 22.

I don't think its a stretch to imagine a team giving him that much at 22. He doesn't necessarily have to be worth that much on the floor right then and there. If he's shown promise I'd be willing to bet some team would pay him the max based on potential and marketing possibilities.