Soccer Thread 2007-08 {R}

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Big win by Israel 2-1 over Russia putting England back in control of their qualification destiny.

Big time, because Croatia clinched a ticket on that Russia loss, meaing they have nothing to play for anymore.

[MIJB#19]

Losers of the day:
Scotland (miss Euro08)
Russia (need help from Croatia now)
Norway (a draw would have made them a shoo-in)
Denmark

Winners of the day:
Italy
France (with special thanks to Italy)
Spain
Netherlands (yay, 1-0 over Luxemburg)
Turkey (crucial win against Norway)
England (with special thanks to Israel)
Poland
Portugal (shoo-in to make it)
Northern Ireland (still alive, although they could have used a Sweden win over Spain)
Croatia (going to Euro08 despite te loss)

[miami_fan]

I wonder how many England fans were secretly hoping for a Russia tie/win so they could serenade McClaren to be fired on Wednesday.

[SirFozzie]

Fuck Houston.

That is all.

Oh.. sig bet coming up :/

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Fuck Houston.

That is all.

Oh.. sig bet coming up :/

yeah...that was pretty ugly to watch. Especially after that great first half...they just...lost it all in the 2nd.

[Critch]

Good MLS final though. I thought New England were just about the better team, but they should have been down to 10 men for most of the second half so I guess justice was probably done.

If there's one thing the Superbowl, World Series and the rest can learn from the MLS final, it's get a great singer to do the National Anthem. That was great

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I wonder how many England fans were secretly hoping for a Russia tie/win so they could serenade McClaren to be fired on Wednesday.

after reading the thread in SI forums, i would say around 33%. they are still holding out hope they can get him fired and get into the Eurocup thingy

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Fuck Houston.

That is all.

Oh.. sig bet coming up :/

I like the sig, thank you sir. The crappy part was my laptop broke monday and I couldn't get down here to Houston in time. I didn't see or hear the game. The wife called me after it ended though and I got something about my main man De Rosario getting a goal of a header and being named MVP. I love that guy. Hope to find the game online when I get home in a few days.

[cthomer5000]

I enjoyed seeing Twellman fight back the tears after losing yet another MLS final. I hate that guy.

[miami_fan]

Anyone have a copy of FM to send to Steve McClaren. I suspect he will have some vacation time coming up.

The Euro 2008 teams are

Poland
Portugal
Italy
France
Greece
Turkey
Czech Republic
Germany
Croatia
Russia
Spain
Sweden
Romania
Netherlands

[cthomer5000]

wow wow wow wow wow is all i can say. I never believed they would actually blow it.

[MrBug708]

Heh.

Saban just announced he wasn't interested in the England job

[Mac Howard]

The Romans knew how to deal with men like McClaren - they would have strung him up on the Wembley goalposts to be picked apart by the crows!

[VPI97]

I was watching Sky Sports to see the coverage and thought it was pretty funny that, after the match, the first question asked of McClaren was essentially, when are you going to resign?

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Rooney, Neville, Carrick, Brown, Ferdinand, and Hargreaves should all be getting some extra rest this summer, fantastic news.

Good stuff. Plus, none of these guys played in the deciding game so they shouldn't have it on their minds when playing for Man United.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The Euro 2008 teams are
Austria
Switzerland
Poland
Portugal
Italy
France
Greece
Turkey
Czech Republic
Germany
Croatia
Russia
Spain
Sweden
Romania
Netherlands

Fixed. I mean, added the hosts to the list.

Now the funky stuff, the seedings for the groups draw.
First seeds: Austria - Switzerland - Greece - Netherlands
Second seeds: Croatia - Italy - Czech Republic - Sweden
Third seeds: Romania - Germany - Portugal - Spain
Fourth seeds: Poland - France - Turkey - Russia

I can't wait to see our team drawn into the group of death with the top three of the last FIFA World Cup (Italy, France and Germany)! Or what about a group with Greece and the Czech Republic and Portugal, three of four semifinalists from 2004?

[Katon]

I think this is the first tournament I've ever seen where the fourth seeds are actually more dangerous than the first seeds.

[GoldenEagle]

McClueless once again cost England. Why would you insert Scott Carson into that game? I know Robinson is crap, so why not play James? At least he has some international experience. The 4-5-1 was a scared tactic. They should have come out playing aggressive. Of course, England's top two strikers today can not even break into their club teams on a regular basis.

England is in bad shape.

[MJ4H]

1. I don't mind the choice to play Carson, but that isn't the time to *debut* him. He should've played long before.

2. Robinson and James are both pretty bad.

3. I don't mind playing a defensive tactic since a draw is all that was needed. The defense was terrible all night no matter the tactic.

4. To be fair to Crouch, he *should* be playing but Benitez is a moron.

5. McClaren should've been fired ages ago.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

1. I don't mind the choice to play Carson, but that isn't the time to *debut* him. He should've played long before.

I think it was his first competitive game. It was predictable that he would be nervous and in a game as crucial as this silly to take the risk.

2. Robinson and James are both pretty bad.

I'd have played James. He's had a good season and though he's error prone he's a good shot-stopper and I think would have saved both the first and third Croatian goals. Of course he could have given them two others but, in truth, there wasn't that much thrown at the England 'keeper outside of the goals and with a bit of luck he would only have given away one

3. I don't mind playing a defensive tactic since a draw is all that was needed. The defense was terrible all night no matter the tactic.

Lescott and Campbell are not exactly the two centre backs you'd choose if you didn't have to. Not only are they second level defenders but they have no time together (essential for a quality CB pairing) and Lescott has the same inexperience problem as Carson. It did seem that Croatia could walk right through the middle any time they wanted

I think Richards would have been a better bet as CB - just as inexperienced but he has already shown he can step up to the international level while Lescott hasn't. Brown would have been an adequate right back.

4. To be fair to Crouch, he *should* be playing but Benitez is a moron.

agree about Benitez but not so sure about Crouch. I prefer Torres and I'm not sure he and Crouch would dovetail.

5. McClaren should've been fired ages ago.

That would be too good for him

[SirFozzie]

Well, I guess this takes Harry Redknapp out of the running to be the next English boss..

Portsmouth have confirmed that Harry Redknapp and Peter Storrie have been arrested by police investigating corruption in football.

Reports had claimed that Redknapp and Storrie were among five people to have been arrested in raids on Wednesday.

The Portsmouth spokesman said: "Portsmouth Football Club can confirm that chief executive Peter Storrie and manager Harry Redknapp have today been asked to help police with their inquiries concerning a matter dating back to 2003.

"This was prior to the new owner taking control of the club at the beginning of 2006.

"The club is fully supportive of Peter and Harry who are co-operating fully with City of London Police in this ongoing inquiry.

"Both are playing major roles in the continued success of Portsmouth Football Club."

According to the Evening Standard, Leicester City chairman Milan Mandaric, Rangers midfielder Amdy Faye and football agent Willie McKay were also arrested.

The City of London Police's economic unit headed the raid which is part of the same ongoing investigation which saw Tottenham defender Pascal Chimbonda arrested in September.
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Police confirmed earlier on Wednesday that five men - aged 69, 60, 55, 48 and 30 - had been arrested following raids.

A spokeswoman for the Police said: "Five men have been arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to defraud and false accounting as part of an ongoing investigation into football corruption.

"Three searches are currently under way. Five additional searches at a variety of locations across the country have been concluded."

The Police's investigation is separate to that of the Quest inquiry which was launched last year by the Football Association with Lord Stevens at the helm.

I had to search for this one, the other one started off, in typical English fashion by stating "Harry Redknapp arrested in bungs probe" Which is quite funny, when you consider what the average Joe would think about ol'Harry if they didn't know what bungs (bribes etcetera) meant

[Critch]

I don't think anybody will be shocked that Harry Redknapp was involved, he's always had a reputation for being as bent as a nine bob note (as the British would maybe say).

Willie McKay too, he's sleazy even by normal agent's standards, he's like a Scottish Boras.

I'm just shocked Allardyce and/or Souness were not mentioned somewhere.

[Crapshoot]

YEah, I'm convinced Allardyce is involved. No surprises about Harry.

[MIJB#19]

For people interested in a Euro2008 spreadsheet to fill out the scores and predict the tournament, send me a PM and I'll give you a link to where I shared it on the www.

On to the draw that was done earlier today.

Group A: Switzerland, Czech Rep, Portugal, Turkey
Group B: Austria, Croatia, Germany, Poland
Group C: Netherlands, Italy, Romania, France
Group D: Greece, Sweden, Spain, Russia

First thoughts:
* being #1 seeds s**ked big time
* it ought to be 'fun' to start a tournament with the first two games against the world champions and vice-world champions
* Group C may seem like the group of death, but group A is the one with two 2004 semi finalists
* interesting to see Greece, Spain and Russia grouped together again, just like Euro2004
* Germany can't be happy, facing two neighbours overly motivated to break their legs
* the tournament setup with basically two seperate 8-team tournaments puzzles me (the top two of group A and B will play down to one team in the final, same with group C and D)
* the bottom half of the tournament (groups C and D) looks a little bit tougher than the top half (groups A and B)
* I have no idea who's going to win this tournament, almost every game is like a coin flip

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Group C: Netherlands, Italy, Romania, France

That is going to be an epic group. I'm so glad that this will be shown on TV in the US for the first time.

[Cringer]

I'm starting to dislike Beckham.

I click on an article talking about the Pan-American Cup or whatever it is called, to be held in Feb. It focuses on Beckham and the crappy Galaxy, then mentions as almost a side note that the Dynamo will play in it as well. The back to back MLS Champions are a side note. Stupid, but sadly to be expected I guess.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I'm starting to dislike Beckham.

I click on an article talking about the Pan-American Cup or whatever it is called, to be held in Feb. It focuses on Beckham and the crappy Galaxy, then mentions as almost a side note that the Dynamo will play in it as well. The back to back MLS Champions are a side note. Stupid, but sadly to be expected I guess.

I see where you're coming from, but shouldn't you be disliking whomever wrote the article?

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I'm starting to dislike Beckham.

I click on an article talking about the Pan-American Cup or whatever it is called, to be held in Feb. It focuses on Beckham and the crappy Galaxy, then mentions as almost a side note that the Dynamo will play in it as well. The back to back MLS Champions are a side note. Stupid, but sadly to be expected I guess.

dont blame Beckham. from everything ive read, heard or seen about him he seems like a good guy, and normally i dislike superstars. but you can hate the press for the way they circle-j*%k around the stars and ignore other events

[daedalus]

we were complete and utterly shit today.

i know and accept that adebayor will never be clinical with his finishing. on the other hand, he had always had plus technical skill . . . including good first touch. this year, in spite of the numbers (9 goals in 18 games*), he has shown, repeatedly, completely leaded first touch. like, completely crap.

*had an argument with a BS poster today about how "good" that 9 in 18 is. 5 of those came in 2 -- 3 of them against derby. immediately, the head-in-the-sand homer immediately start trotting out the asstarded argument of, "so scoring multiple goals in a game is bad?" good gracious, i cannot stand idiots.

i have been amongst those who have been clamouring for mr wenger to bring gilberto back but he looked ridiculously bad today. he got completely destroyed by gary o'neil on one play where he got juked and completely blew apart. he did look better in the second half with denilson on instead of diarra but that does not excuse the completely horrible showing.

eboue is a nice right back with defensive deficiency. eboue is and never will be a competent right midfielder. he may be an acceptable substitute right mid occasionally. but not a starter -- not at the level that arsenal supposedly aspires to be. he deserved at least a yellow, if not a red for that play against pogatetz. with no cards issued, the FA is free to review the play and he will probably get -- and deserve -- some game suspension. the play against downing could at least be argued to be accidental, although, given his history, more than a couple of people seems inclined to think it intentional. and i would find it difficult to argue against it. i would be more than happy with hoyte as our second XI right back and just move on.

alumnia has proven and continues to prove that he is useful when not remotely tested but is nowhere near acceptable with any heat. while he was not directly at fault for the penalty on alia-thingie, he had no business coming out as he did and there is no way to know if that forced toure's hands (or feet) or not. while he did make a solid save -- and isn't that a goalkeeper's job? -- on the second goal, why did he leave the ball on the pitch instead of knocking it round the goal? if anyone cares to go back, he gives up a number of goals that way (saves the first shot and leaves the ball around for a rebound). mr wenger screwed the pooch big time by passing on gordon (and mordric but that would be a different discussion for a different time) this past summer. one hopes that he would be willing to shell out some cash for akinfeev. or, hell, i would take some of the other names that has been associated with us: givens, boruc, jääskeläinen or even pele. (i would prefer givens, if healthy. because buffon is, at best, pipe dream.)

eduardo and diarra were, at best, invisible today. i rate eduardo much more than some on the BS board and think that he matches poorly with adebayor. with a healthy van persie, i would rather have eduardo in there than adebayor. diarra -- although he can be excused somewhat for being matched in there with another defensive-oriented midfielder -- did not make a great showing for himself.

the much vaunted centreback pairing of gallas and toure looked less than great today. even ignoring the penalty, toure looked less than great. he was beat more than usual (he usually gets beat at least 1-2 times per game but recovers), gave the ball away needlessly and what the FUCK is up with all those route one balls? yes, a few a game helps to keep the defense honest but, damn, if you do it all damn day, you are just giving away the ball needlessly. only al davis would approve of that bullshit. gallas was, at best, shaky in my opinion. both had some mediocre clearances.

clichy who is usually solid was less than stellar today. somebody commented that he looked tired and he did. beyond that, i guess the best term would be 'jaded' (even if i still do not fully understand what the brits mean by it, it just feels right with his body language today). beat constantly, gave the ball away and more than a few times i saw him play spectator. that yellow was well deserved.

while rosicky could not be blamed for the anemic attack, he showed that he could not be THE creative force without other good creative players around him (cesc and hleb). the goal was cute, if too late, and he had some nice runs. other than that, though, it was mostly a lot of bluster for nothing.

sagna is maybe the only one on the pitch who did not look horrible. he gave the ball away a few times and was beatened a few times but, well, that is life as an attacking fullback. he was solid, otherwise, and had some nice moments in attack.

i am not with the "the sky is falling!" crowd but we showed zero heart today. that would be the part that bothers me more than the loss. i cannot say that we need to make buys -- other than a keeper -- but some of the players on the pitch today needs to look at themselves and realize they fucked up. some of the people who bitched about playing time needs to STFU and accept that, given that chance, they fornicated that canine royally.

some of the arsenal fans are quick to point the finger at howard webb. fuck that. yeah, webb is a mediocre referee who makes plenty of mistakes but he did not lose the game for us. the penalty call was correct. the call he got wrong was eboue -- whether yellow or red. in fact, i would say that most of his mistakes were in arsenal's favour. people need to stop looking for excuses for fuck ups and move on.

'grats on the 3 points, chief.

[Fighter of Foo]

That's awfully harsh for a team missing 4? first choice players up top and in midfield.

[bulletsponge]

the sky is falling! we lost our first game of the year and are still in first but were screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BishopMVP]

Probably no one cares, but UMass just completed a miraculous run to the Final 4 as an unseeded team. Play Ohio St next and the winner faces WF/VT in the championship game. Every single player went to an American HS and the best player is a keeper who played Club the first year and decided to walk-on to varsity.

[Dunleavy]

Originally Posted by daedalus

we were complete and utterly shit today.

agree 100%, it was awful to watch

Originally Posted by daedalus

i know and accept that adebayor will never be clinical with his finishing. on the other hand, he had always had plus technical skill . . . including good first touch. this year, in spite of the numbers (9 goals in 18 games*), he has shown, repeatedly, completely leaded first touch. like, completely crap.

i disagree. he's had a great first touch for most of the year and he takes the ball better then anyone in the league. his clincial finishing is way too inconnsistant and so is his effort. i'll give him a slight break b/c he's been playing up front all by himself far too often since RvP injury

Originally Posted by daedalus

i have been amongst those who have been clamouring for mr wenger to bring gilberto back but he looked ridiculously bad today. he got completely destroyed by gary o'neil on one play where he got juked and completely blew apart. he did look better in the second half with denilson on instead of diarra but that does not excuse the completely horrible showing.

i'm with you b/c i also called for Gilberto and he was so dissapointing. at over 30 AW has to play him or sell. i'm still not sold on Flamini but with the way the two are playing at the moment it's hard to see a way back into the team for Gilberto

Originally Posted by daedalus

eboue is a nice right back with defensive deficiency. eboue is and never will be a competent right midfielder. he may be an acceptable substitute right mid occasionally. but not a starter -- not at the level that arsenal supposedly aspires to be. he deserved at least a yellow, if not a red for that play against pogatetz. with no cards issued, the FA is free to review the play and he will probably get -- and deserve -- some game suspension. the play against downing could at least be argued to be accidental, although, given his history, more than a couple of people seems inclined to think it intentional. and i would find it difficult to argue against it. i would be more than happy with hoyte as our second XI right back and just move on.

yah he hasn't made the transition from defense to midfield yet, hard to say if he every will. he's setting up just enough goals to keep his place but he doesnt seem to play well without Helb supporting him and the only formation theose two play together in is the 4-5-1, every time Eboue plays in the 4-4-2 he doesnt do much

Originally Posted by daedalus

alumnia has proven and continues to prove that he is useful when not remotely tested but is nowhere near acceptable with any heat. while he was not directly at fault for the penalty on alia-thingie, he had no business coming out as he did and there is no way to know if that forced toure's hands (or feet) or not. while he did make a solid save -- and isn't that a goalkeeper's job? -- on the second goal, why did he leave the ball on the pitch instead of knocking it round the goal? if anyone cares to go back, he gives up a number of goals that way (saves the first shot and leaves the ball around for a rebound). mr wenger screwed the pooch big time by passing on gordon (and mordric but that would be a different discussion for a different time) this past summer. one hopes that he would be willing to shell out some cash for akinfeev. or, hell, i would take some of the other names that has been associated with us: givens, boruc, jääskeläinen or even pele. (i would prefer givens, if healthy. because buffon is, at best, pipe dream.)

i really disagree, Alumnia has dependable all year. i've been real impressed

Originally Posted by daedalus

eduardo and diarra were, at best, invisible today. i rate eduardo much more than some on the BS board and think that he matches poorly with adebayor. with a healthy van persie, i would rather have eduardo in there than adebayor. diarra -- although he can be excused somewhat for being matched in there with another defensive-oriented midfielder -- did not make a great showing for himself.

it's a classic lost year for Eduardo coming over to england. Diarra needs to play as a DM only

Originally Posted by daedalus

the much vaunted centreback pairing of gallas and toure looked less than great today. even ignoring the penalty, toure looked less than great. he was beat more than usual (he usually gets beat at least 1-2 times per game but recovers), gave the ball away needlessly and what the FUCK is up with all those route one balls? yes, a few a game helps to keep the defense honest but, damn, if you do it all damn day, you are just giving away the ball needlessly. only al davis would approve of that bullshit. gallas was, at best, shaky in my opinion. both had some mediocre clearances.

clichy who is usually solid was less than stellar today. somebody commented that he looked tired and he did. beyond that, i guess the best term would be 'jaded' (even if i still do not fully understand what the brits mean by it, it just feels right with his body language today). beat constantly, gave the ball away and more than a few times i saw him play spectator. that yellow was well deserved.

i'm just going to chalk this one up to anger over the loss. Toure and Gallas are super class and clichy is class. they'll be fine

Originally Posted by daedalus

while rosicky could not be blamed for the anemic attack, he showed that he could not be THE creative force without other good creative players around him (cesc and hleb). the goal was cute, if too late, and he had some nice runs. other than that, though, it was mostly a lot of bluster for nothing.

completely agree

Originally Posted by daedalus

i am not with the "the sky is falling!" crowd but we showed zero heart today. that would be the part that bothers me more than the loss. i cannot say that we need to make buys -- other than a keeper -- but some of the players on the pitch today needs to look at themselves and realize they fucked up. some of the people who bitched about playing time needs to STFU and accept that, given that chance, they fornicated that canine royally.

it's a simple probelm at the moment, NO CREATIVITY IN THE CENTER OF THE MIDFIELD. Helb and Cesc are clearly huge losses, so is Diaby he finally gets his chance and he's injuried as well. i'm not sure why Denilson isn't starting as the AM, dont get me wrong he's no AM but he can a pick a pass better then Flamini, Gilberto and Diarra combinded

Originally Posted by daedalus

some of the arsenal fans are quick to point the finger at howard webb. fuck that. yeah, webb is a mediocre referee who makes plenty of mistakes but he did not lose the game for us. the penalty call was correct. the call he got wrong was eboue -- whether yellow or red. in fact, i would say that most of his mistakes were in arsenal's favour. people need to stop looking for excuses for fuck ups and move on.

the PK i dont have a problem with and Webb didnt cost the either team a goal but for the most part he was awful

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

I see where you're coming from, but shouldn't you be disliking whomever wrote the article?

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

dont blame Beckham. from everything ive read, heard or seen about him he seems like a good guy, and normally i dislike superstars. but you can hate the press for the way they circle-j*%k around the stars and ignore other events

Yeah yeah yeah. I hate that mofo, and the MLS website as well I am at it. Beckham is always on the front page. Beckham can breath easier, I won't hate him.

[illinifan999]

A Turkish lawyer who's an expert on European law, Baris Kaska, is asking Uefa to cancel the three points Inter earned in their win against Fenerbahce in the recent Champions League match. The Nerazzurri had beaten the Turkish champions 3-0 at home to qualify for the next round of the Champions League.
The reason for the appeal is unusual: the celebratory shirt for Inter's centenary worn by the team that night, and on several other occasions this season, offended many people in Turkey. The shirt's scheme saw a big red cross on a white background, a symbol of the city of Milan, and reminded many of an emblem of the order of the Templars, which is considered offensive by Islam culture.
Inter consciously did not wear their 'centenary shirt' in the first match against Fenerbahce in Istanbul, but at home they did not think it was necessary to do the same.
However, the very sensitive Turkish media reacted bitterly and that led to the official appeal filed to Uefa by Kaska, who announced this decision during an interview to Barcelona daily La Vanguardia.
Danilo Pochini


hxxp://www.goal.com/en-US/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=509966

[Big Fo]

Why are people from that part of the world such crybabies? It gets boring after awhile.

Oh and daedalus - maybe since Arsenal hasn't been in a title race for few seasons the stress is a bit much, but take it easy it's a long season. Wonder how long your next post will be if you lose to Chelsea at home on Sunday.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

That's awfully harsh for a team missing 4? first choice players up top and in midfield.

if it was a simple loss, i'd be frustrated and annoyed. but, then, i'd be ready to move on. read my posts from before and at the beginning of the season, i was happy with the squad and confident that we could contend with the talent we have when the world said the sky was falling on us and saying we must buy and buy big because we sold henry and the cupboard is practically bared.

on the other hand, i was not the only person who wondered if arsenal was not the team wearing red on sunday. we looked bad and lacked effort against [no offense, chief] a team that's been battling relegation. [granted, 'boro is far from a relegation battler talent-wise but that's where they have been thus far this season.] who showed more heart than we did. that hurts.

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

the sky is falling! we lost our first game of the year and are still in first but were screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

of course. mockery is best because, y'know, actually reading a post and responding with intelligence is too much work. kudos on the witticism.

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Why are people from that part of the world such crybabies? It gets boring after awhile.

which part of the world would that be? i'm an american of thai descent living in southern california. feel free to specify.

my apologies to have bored you with my opinion on a message board.

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Oh and daedalus - maybe since Arsenal hasn't been in a title race for few seasons the stress is a bit much, but take it easy it's a long season.

thanks for the condescension. i'm glad you could understand that obviously an ignorant person from such uncouth part of the world could have no comprehension that a season or year would be "lengthy".

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Wonder how long your next post will be if you lose to Chelsea at home on Sunday.

if we play good football and play hard, i'd be sad to lose but at least i'd be happy that we competed. sometimes another team is just more talented. sometimes another team is just having a good day. fine.

moping around like you couldn't give a shit when you're in contention is pathetic.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

i disagree. he's had a great first touch for most of the year and he takes the ball better then anyone in the league. his clincial finishing is way too inconnsistant and so is his effort. i'll give him a slight break b/c he's been playing up front all by himself far too often since RvP injury

in previous years, he impressed me with his first touch and technical ability which i think is underrated. this year, he's frequently show horrible first touch other than in those games he's been spectacular in. ultimately, he's been either absolutely brilliant or mediocre.

while i agree that he plays better in a 2 forward setup and has done a yeoman's job of playing the single striker, he was partnered with another forward on sunday since hleb was out. granted, one of his partner seems unready for the premiership's pace yet and the other is simply too unpolish. on the other hand, lack of a good partner does not or should not effect first touch or lackadasical running.

i do see where you're coming from, though.

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

yah he hasn't made the transition from defense to midfield yet, hard to say if he every will. he's setting up just enough goals to keep his place but he doesnt seem to play well without Helb supporting him and the only formation theose two play together in is the 4-5-1, every time Eboue plays in the 4-4-2 he doesnt do much

i just don't see him having enough range of passing nor variety of skill enough to be a consistent threat at midfield. as an overlapping right back, he has plenty of room to bomb forward and send in crosses [and he's most likely our best crosser]. as a right mid, he just doesn't have enough to get away.

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

i really disagree, Alumnia has dependable all year. i've been real impressed

i don't know. he's been okay when he's not been challenged. any game where he's threatened, he's fallen apart. at least that i've noticed.

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

Diarra needs to play as a DM only

yeah, that was more mr wenger's fault than anything to match diarra with gilberto.

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

i'm just going to chalk this one up to anger over the loss. Toure and Gallas are super class and clichy is class. they'll be fine

they are absolutely class. quitely likely the best pair of centreback out there in my definitely biased opinion [with apologies to mr ferdinand and vidic] and arguably the best left back in the premiership [evra is damn good, though].

that does not change that they looked horrible on sunday. clichy looked tired -- perhaps it's time to let traore make his debut or perhaps it's time to let flamini reprise his role from that CL run. toure and gallas were beaten horrifically more often than centrebacks of their class should have been and even clearances were mediocre.

yes, you are correct, though. i was quite upset -- with the effort, not the loss -- and they will be fine.

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

it's a simple probelm at the moment, NO CREATIVITY IN THE CENTER OF THE MIDFIELD. Helb and Cesc are clearly huge losses, so is Diaby he finally gets his chance and he's injuried as well. i'm not sure why Denilson isn't starting as the AM, dont get me wrong he's no AM but he can a pick a pass better then Flamini, Gilberto and Diarra combinded

i agree. when denilson came on, we looked leagues better. part of the lack of creativity would be mr wenger's fault. rosicky was the only one in the midfield capable of creating. eboue's repetoire in midfield consist solely of one-two's and run and neither diarra nor gilberto were likely to be his partner in that. still . . . lack of creativity does not mean "kick the ball away" which was what we did most of the day.

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

the PK i dont have a problem with and Webb didnt cost the either team a goal but for the most part he was awful

no doubt, he is, at best, mediocre. on the other hand, he didn't cost us the game [i.e., pulled a mike riley] and i hate that argument that seems to come up anytime we do not win.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by daedalus

'grats on the 3 points, chief.

Thanks! Now, to be fair, don't you feel silly complaining about a top side like the Gunners when the team that somehow miraculously beat you registered its first victory--IN ANY COMPETITION!--since the day after the transfer deadline?

I mean, how embarrassing is Boro? They're so bad, even Americans rip on my allegiance to them. "Name the best clubs in Europe, Mr. American..." "Well, let's see, there's that Real superstar squad...isn't Manchester United good...and umm, well, I may not know the good clubs, but I know Boro is shite!".

[Dunleavy]

i think we agree on most things and feel the same way about the team and with that said continue the debate on a few of the players

Alumnia: seems to be our biggest disagreement, he may not have a good track record and he didnt start the season on fire so perhaps thats why a lot of people still doubt him but i dont remember the last mistake he's made, over 2 months iirc. he's in tremendous form right now and i myself was a huge doubter just a few weeks ago but he's won me over

Adebayor: his mental makeup isn't the greatest which i believe to be the root of all his inconsistencies. The way I see him he’s at his best in big matches playing very hard and quite well in those. He’s at his worst playing upfront by himself especially against middle of the road teams or better as he allows himself to drift out of the game

looking forward to this weeks action. the CL game should be treated less then a Carling Cup match. i dont want to see any of the main 11 starting that way they'll be rested for the huge match against in form Chelsea. Unfortunately the two biggest problems with the squad (minus injuries) remain, they have no AM and they don’t have a second striker. Here’s what I’d like to see

-------Ade--------Bendtner----

Rosicky—Flamini—Gilberto—Eboue

You know the back 5

I’m taking a chance with Bendtner and Gilberto but i don’t like playing 4-5-1 especially at home and Bendtner should start ahead of Eduardo. Flamini should be fit and retake his place but in a more attacking role. I’m not sure if Diarra going against Chelsea would be a good thing or if it might backfire so I went with Gilberto hoping the rest is off and quality shines

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by daedalus

.which part of the world would that be? i'm an american of thai descent living in southern california. feel free to specify.

Bit of a mix-up here, I was referring to the article above my post where Fenerbahce was protesting to UEFA about the uniforms Inter Milan wore while beating them 3-0. Pretty ridiculous IMO.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by daedalus

if it was a simple loss, i'd be frustrated and annoyed. but, then, i'd be ready to move on. read my posts from before and at the beginning of the season, i was happy with the squad and confident that we could contend with the talent we have when the world said the sky was falling on us and saying we must buy and buy big because we sold henry and the cupboard is practically bared.

on the other hand, i was not the only person who wondered if arsenal was not the team wearing red on sunday. we looked bad and lacked effort against [no offense, chief] a team that's been battling relegation. [granted, 'boro is far from a relegation battler talent-wise but that's where they have been thus far this season.] who showed more heart than we did.

You and your comrades who said, "OMG the sky is falling, we don't have Henry!" are what allowed me to get Arsenal at 9:1 to win the title this season, so I can't be too upset, but for the love of everything holy Wenger knows what he is doing. The lack of trust placed in the man is astounding.

As far as Boro, Arsenal always do poorly there, outside fo that 7-0 mauling a few years back and that may have been at home. Boro almost always play well against top sides and they gave Chelsea their first loss last season.

So Arsenal came out flat with a game against Chelsea coming up. Big fucking deal. If you'd like to bet against Arsenal on Sunday name your price.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

You and your comrades who said, "OMG the sky is falling, we don't have Henry!" are what allowed me to get Arsenal at 9:1 to win the title this season

wow, you're an ignorant twit. okay, i'm going to state once more in nice, big letter so, perhaps, even YOU could read:

read my posts from before and at the beginning of the season, i was happy with the squad and confident that we could contend with the talent we have when the world said the sky was falling on us and saying we must buy and buy big because we sold henry and the cupboard is practically bared.

in case comprehension is *also* a difficulty for you beyond a simple unwillingness to read, that means *i* am not one of those who said, "OMG the sky is falling, we don't have Henry!" go find a single post in this thread or anywhere where i said or even imply that and i will willingly apologize. until then PLEASE STFU with regards to responding me or my post until you learn to read *and* comprehend.

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

so I can't be too upset, but for the love of everything holy Wenger knows what he is doing. The lack of trust placed in the man is astounding.

where in the FLYING FUCK in ANY of my posts did you find me lacking trust in wenger? i said the team was fucking listless and gave mediocre effort. THE. TEAM. that would be those 11 sumbitches in the white shirts kicking the damn ball around. i criticize his choice of starting midfield because, well, playing 2 defensive midfielder and 1 converted right back across the middle 4 is only good in theory and difficult to make work in reality. what fucking planet are you from that criticism is a lack of trust?

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

So Arsenal came out flat with a game against Chelsea coming up. Big fucking deal. If you'd like to bet against Arsenal on Sunday name your price.

1 - i don't care if they play chelsea or the little sisters of the poor next. i don't know the fucking schedule, i don't pay attention to it. if you cannot comprehend why being out-efforted by a relegation team is a negative thing, i don't know that there's much i can do to get you past that.

2 - i don't bet -- i'm not astro-who's-what's-it. i have gone to horse races and just watched without betting. i don't bet or play rotisserie because i know that invariably i will never be able to think logically like somebody like QS because my personal feelings and bias will always win out. if arsenal was 2:1 to win, i'd bet arsenal. if arsenal was 57:1 to win, i'd bet arsenal.

3 - why in the flying fuck would an arsenal fan bet *against* arsenal? at whatever fucking price? are you that damn dense that criticism immediately implies evil and traitorous intention and i'm now a chelsea bandwagon-hopper (as oppose to a chelsea *fan* -- sorry, supporter -- like katon who have liked them since they were broke and sucked).

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

Alumnia: seems to be our biggest disagreement, he may not have a good track record and he didnt start the season on fire so perhaps thats why a lot of people still doubt him but i dont remember the last mistake he's made, over 2 months iirc. he's in tremendous form right now and i myself was a huge doubter just a few weeks ago but he's won me over

it's quite possible that it's just nitpicking and a bias feeling -- granted, at the moment, i'm much more comfortable with him out there than with lehmann. i just don't get the sense that, if push comes to shove and toure gets beat on a play, that he'll make a play to save the game. he also seems prone to saving the ball without knocking it out of bound when he's unable to catch it cleanly. i can't think of specific incidents but i swear i've seen it more than once. still, though, at this point, i would probably be more inclined to have him out there than lehmann since he will at least make the routine plays. i wouldn't mind seeing fabianski sooner than later but that's extremely unlikely given how mr wenger seems to feel about younger 'keeper.

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

Adebayor: his mental makeup isn't the greatest which i believe to be the root of all his inconsistencies. The way I see him he’s at his best in big matches playing very hard and quite well in those. He’s at his worst playing upfront by himself especially against middle of the road teams or better as he allows himself to drift out of the game

that would make sense, given how drastic he shifts between extremely dangerous and extraordinarily crappy. i have just noticed too many games this year where passing him the ball in traffic results in a loss in possession where, for some reason, it seems to stick in my head that in past year, he had very good first touch if questionable finishing.

Originally Posted by Dunleavy

-------Ade--------Bendtner----

Rosicky—Flamini—Gilberto—Eboue

You know the back 5

I’m taking a chance with Bendtner and Gilberto but i don’t like playing 4-5-1 especially at home and Bendtner should start ahead of Eduardo. Flamini should be fit and retake his place but in a more attacking role. I’m not sure if Diarra going against Chelsea would be a good thing or if it might backfire so I went with Gilberto hoping the rest is off and quality shines

some felt that bendtner did poorly against 'boro but i thought he showed well with only lack of polish hindering. my only problem with the middle is that, although he's more offensively capable than diarra/gilberto, i don't think he's going to provide enough creativity. i would much rather see denilson out there with either flamini or diarra since he's closer to being able to provide an offensive presence and flow than any other available midfielder.

i agree with your comment about resting the first XI. if mr wenger gives traore a start against steaua, i think we'll see the clichy who started the season so brightly. he looked tired to me on sunday. and i wouldn't mind seeing gilberto-senderos in the back four either. apparently, lehmann is set to start . . . i hope that won't kill almunia's confidence going into the chelsea game.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by daedalus

wow, you're an ignorant twit. okay, i'm going to state once more in nice, big letter so, perhaps, even YOU could read:

read my posts from before and at the beginning of the season, i was happy with the squad and confident that we could contend with the talent we have when the world said the sky was falling on us and saying we must buy and buy big because we sold henry and the cupboard is practically bared.

in case comprehension is *also* a difficulty for you beyond a simple unwillingness to read, that means *i* am not one of those who said, "OMG the sky is falling, we don't have Henry!" go find a single post in this thread or anywhere where i said or even imply that and i will willingly apologize. until then PLEASE STFU with regards to responding me or my post until you learn to read *and* comprehend.where in the FLYING FUCK in ANY of my posts did you find me lacking trust in wenger? i said the team was fucking listless and gave mediocre effort. THE. TEAM. that would be those 11 sumbitches in the white shirts kicking the damn ball around. i criticize his choice of starting midfield because, well, playing 2 defensive midfielder and 1 converted right back across the middle 4 is only good in theory and difficult to make work in reality. what fucking planet are you from that criticism is a lack of trust?1 - i don't care if they play chelsea or the little sisters of the poor next. i don't know the fucking schedule, i don't pay attention to it. if you cannot comprehend why being out-efforted by a relegation team is a negative thing, i don't know that there's much i can do to get you past that.

2 - i don't bet -- i'm not astro-who's-what's-it. i have gone to horse races and just watched without betting. i don't bet or play rotisserie because i know that invariably i will never be able to think logically like somebody like QS because my personal feelings and bias will always win out. if arsenal was 2:1 to win, i'd bet arsenal. if arsenal was 57:1 to win, i'd bet arsenal.

3 - why in the flying fuck would an arsenal fan bet *against* arsenal? at whatever fucking price? are you that damn dense that criticism immediately implies evil and traitorous intention and i'm now a chelsea bandwagon-hopper (as oppose to a chelsea *fan* -- sorry, supporter -- like katon who have liked them since they were broke and sucked).

You're awfully angry. Why would I read your posts from eariler in the season or keep track of what you had written? How egotistical are you? How many words are you going to waste?

Seriously, go fuck yourself.

[Cringer]

so....uh....Osorio leaves the Fire and is headed for NYRB. I hate the Fire, so good.


**you may resume your yelling at each other**

[SirFozzie]

And now, for something completely different.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7136044.stm

The interesting news: ESPN is interested in buying the rights to show the English Premier League.

The deflating news: This would be for the UK only, and wouldn't start till after the 2009-2010 season.

The rumor: If ESPN does get the rights in the UK, it is expected that they would look to purchase either Fox Soccer Channel or Setanta Sports North America, to get some US rights, as well.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

You're awfully angry. Why would I read your posts from eariler in the season or keep track of what you had written? How egotistical are you? How many words are you going to waste?

Seriously, go fuck yourself.

Well, if you are going to quote and reply directly to an individual about what they "said", it's usually a good idea to make sure they said it.

Just a tip.

[Fighter of Foo]

So paraphrasing isn't allowed, especially with all those words, but being a complete and total dick is OK?

EDIT: Even moreso, I don't think it's much of a leap to assume that someone who wrote 2000 angry words on this board alone over Arsenal's first loss all season would be the same person who flipped out over Henry this summer.

[Cringer]

When does this end with a riot on the pitch?