The OFFICIAL 2007 NHL Offseason Thread

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

McPhee, Caps GM, shot this down on the radio yesterday as the Caps had offered the contract on Sunday. More BS from the Oilerwhores.

Who cares if he offered the contract Sunday afternoon...he didn't have a signed contract until sometime on Monday...a full day after the Oilers were under the impression, as was McPhee, that Nylander was signing in, presubably, Edmonton.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...6-37e45f0c0fbc

McPhee said, as of Sunday night, he thought Nylander was headed elsewhere, but somehow that all changed Monday.

Regardless, nobody here is laying blame on the Caps for this silliness...Nylander and his agent are the ones at the center of everything.

So, relax, nobody is attacking your precious team.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

BS. It's the teams job to make sure things get done. By noon, the day after the supposed agreement, they had made no attempt to contact Nylander or his agent. Just a stupid move by a bad GM.

Read what I am writing. This isn't about doing jobs or what is legally supposed to be done. This is about Nylander and his agent not knowing what is right or wrong--or even worse, knowing what is wrong and doing it anyway.

Enjoy your new forward, who happens to be a piece of shit as a human being. But, hey, as long as he has a Caps uni on, he must be as good as gold, huh?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I see it as two players going back on their word. Nylander didn't get released by the Oilers or anything like that, but he still went back on his word to sign with them.

Exactly. He went back on his word. I don't know why this message doesn't get through to HiFi.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Enjoy your new forward, who happens to be a piece of shit as a human being.

Wow, talk about coming on strong.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I have to give it to HiFi. I like his passion for the Caps. I lived in D.C. for over 3 years and rarely saw anything close to this out of anyone.

I like it.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Enjoy your new forward, who happens to be a piece of shit as a human being. But, hey, as long as he has a Caps uni on, he must be as good as gold, huh?

<Insert witty Todd Bertuzzi joke.>

[Honolulu_Blue]

Roenick has finally decided to retire.

It was time. Hell, it was time two years ago.

Unfortunately, it means he'll pop up as some TV analyst somewhere.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So HFR, essentially your arguing that they should have simply ignored his agent just treat a certified agent's actions on behalf of his client as meaningless and assumed they had nothing, not even a verbal agreement, until they had the formality of the player's signature.

An interesting approach to negotiations in modern sports times, although I'm sure that there's a legion of sports agents who might disagree with your recommended approach.

Absent any evidence one way or another, I'm willing to at least believe that maybe the agent went rogue on Nylander or something and agreed to something he knew the player didn't want. That's possible, and makes the agent out to be the untrustworthy character instead of the player. But in any scenario, I'm having a tough time seeing where Edmonton is in any way a villain in this piece, and that's coming from someone who really isn't what you'd call a fan of any of the Canadian clubs.

[TurnerONU22]

While the Oil fans are around, any notes on Jan Hedja, who has supposedly signed with the Jackets today? I keep reading on HF from the EDM fans that if he signed for the reported 1 yr 1 mill, that it should be a great steal and obviously someone who Howson had his eye on when he left.

Also, the Jackets picked up Jiri Novotny on a low risk deal. While some Jacket fans are whining about the lack of a top C and a top D man being signed, the reality is that this team won't be a big spender and with Howson and Hitch running the ship, the key phrase is "under promise and over deliver" . I think with these two signings and the addition of the AHL D Man of the year in Sheldon Brookbank, we are seeing a "low risk and high reward" approach.

[bbor]

Only way to settle this is for Nylander to break his leg in the 1st game of the season and be out for the rest of the year

[Maple Leafs]

Completely unrelated to anything, but I thought this article was interesting. You text-simmers might enjoy it:

http://www.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=597

Basic summary: guy goes through every NHL game log and calculated shooting percentage and shots allowed by shot distance. He then ranks each team based on their expected goals against with an average goalie given the shots they allowed, compared to their actual results.

[MikeVic]

Is that really how the NHL works now?? (I'm really asking, because it sounds stupid).

Ok, let's just assume that Lowe and the agent had a written agreement.

The player can then go to whoever he wants and negotiate on his own? What the hell is the point of an agent then? This should be built into an NHL sim.

"Yes, I signed that coveted free agent centre. Now I can go after the D I need."

*after a couple of weeks in-game*

"What the hell?? Why did my signed player end up in Phoenix?"

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

You're a moron. There is no evidence, anywhere, that Nylander agreed to a contract, even verbally. The Oilers never made contact with him, only his agent. Other than that though, the situations are similar, meaning that they aren't at all. Now go root for Ron "Dogfight" Mexico since you obviously have no clue on this.

Nylander picks his agent as a representative. If they can't communicate and be on the same page, I hold Nylander partly responsible for not hiring a proper representative.

If a team has to talk to the player and get them to sign, then why have an agent in the first place? Just to negotiate salary, which Nylander did on his own with Washington apparently? And if the agent was in talks with Washington too, then he's at fault here.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

Wow, talk about coming on strong.

Well, yeah, that's quite a bit of an overreaction. HiFi got me worked up. Still, Nylander certainly didn't show himself in a good light with this move.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

<Insert witty Todd Bertuzzi joke.>

I expected that. Never said I liked Bertuzzi. I have also said I am not a big Pronger fan. I have never espoused the human being qualities of either.

That doesn't mean I can't suppoort my team because they're on the roster (not like I lobbied for either), or that I am excepted from the right to have an opinion on other less than stellar players.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Enjoy when the facts continue to bear out that Nylander never agreed to a contract with Edmonton. Then come back and make a public admission of shoving your head up your own butt since you seem oblivious to reality.

Once again, the time line has been made very clear.

Sunday--Nylander takes multiple offers from teams. Lowe, being a blithering idiot, takes something "written" by an agent as binding despite every other GM in the league understanding that their is nothing binding no matter what an agent writes. Two Edmonton radio stations get "leaked" reports of Nylander signing and Edmonton trying to use that to lure other FA's while not pursuing a C anymore.

Monday--More than 12 hours after faxing a proposed SPC to Nylander's agent, Lowe does nothing despite not hearing back from them. A good GM continues to have guys potentially lined up in case something changes at the last second (McPhee had Nylander third on his list behind Gomez and Drury with Yashin as a fourth option). Lowe stops negotiating with other C's AND doesn't follow up on the player whom he claims to have an agreement with despite never making contact with the actual player. The Caps then get the player and agent signatures on the SPC that they offered the day before, send it to the league central registry, and get it approved without any protestation or other legal contract claim by another team. Monday afternoon the Caps have their new C who never agreed to terms with Edmonton, verbally or in writing.

Tuesday-Wednesday--Lowe realizes he's done another atrocious job, is getting blasted for the lack of a Nylander signing and his lack of competence and due diligence, and concocts an asinine story acting as if there's never been an NHL player whose agent got him several contract offers and then allowed him to decide which one he wanted. Nylander did the right thing, and would have been right to sign in Edmonton or any other city he could. Moronic schleps, hiding behind their keyboards, are lapping up the pathetic story of a bad GM who is quickly driving a Canadian elitist franchise into obscurity and crucifying a guy who by all factual accounts did nothing out of the ordinary except for accepting a lower amount of money to suit his families comfort better.

That description you gave of the Caps new forward is obviously more accurately ascribed to you.

Nice. Not only do you STILL not get what I am saying, such that you have watsed an entire post that is pretty much the length of one of my posts (and that's saying something), but then you resort to namecalling. Sweet.

I didn't even read all that. I have told you repeatedly now this has nothing to do with contracts, who contacted who when, who signed who when, laws, rules, nothing like that whatsoever. This is about a player (or player's rep, same difference) giving their word, and not only going back on it, but neglecting to inform said screwed party of what was going on, fucking voer the organization and its fans in a free agent season where the bulk of the important signings occurred in just a two day period.

This is about right and wrong. Don't leap for the NHL rulebook or United States Code. Look for a Bible. You know, that book with the cross on it. Or maybe listen to whatever your momma and daddy probably told you (hopefully) when you were a kid about being a good person.

Nylander, without any care to whom he was effecting, basically made his word worthless, and potentially set back another team's offseason plans in a major way. The guy doesn't even have the sack to own up to the whole situation. And you're going off defending him, calling people names here. And you're telling me I'm a piece of shit as a human being?

Fans like you don't deserve a player as talented as Ovechkin, or come to think of it, a team at all, in any sport.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Nylander DIDN'T AGREE TO A CONTRACT WITH EDMONTON at any time.

LOUD NOISES!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Nylander DIDN'T AGREE TO A CONTRACT WITH EDMONTON at any time. His agent, as any GM with a functional brain knows, isn't allowed to sign him to any team. All the evidence supports that they worked out contract parameters and then, with OTHER OFFERS ALSO ON THE TABLE, Nylander chose the one he considered best for his family. Just because Kevin Lowe is a moron who can't do his job competently doesn't mean his diverting attention by making fraudulent claims about Nylander should work. Just because you are entirely too stupid to see that doesn't change the fact. Don't be surprised if there isn't a counter suit for slander/liable once the NHL throws this non-issue out.

The only "evidence" against Nylander is an inept tool GM who has systematically destroyed a hockey team that was in the finals in two freaking years. Lowe has a growing reputation as a hack, Nylander has nothing against his character prior to this, I'll believe the character guy over the boob.

I'm done with you. I can only say it so many ways before I run out of ways to say it. You just don't and won't get it. Perhaps you're not capable of getting it. So cya.

[chrisj]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

You're a moron. There is no evidence, anywhere, that Nylander agreed to a contract, even verbally. The Oilers never made contact with him, only his agent. Other than that though, the situations are similar, meaning that they aren't at all. Now go root for Ron "Dogfight" Mexico since you obviously have no clue on this.

He didn't need to. His agent, who legally acts on his behalf, signed a letter of intent.

[chrisj]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Michael Nylander never agreed to a contract with the Edmonton Oilers. According to the NHL CBA, an agent cannot finalize a contract, so Lowe is a retard for dropping all other negotiations for a C without contact with the actual player.

So - what you're suggesting is, a player should have his agent accept and sign all letter of intents - binding the team to sign the player, no matter who else signs a contract with them - while he can sit around and decide what to do?

Is that really what you're suggesting?

Because if nothing is done to Nylander/his agent, this is exactly what is going to happen. Agents will accept 4 or 5 letters of intent, the players will sit back and decide who they want to sign with after a few weeks, and the teams will be foced to accept the contract even if it puts them over the cap/budget.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

What the hell is the point of an agent then?

Ah, someone else is wondering what I'm pretty much wondering at this point as well.

[chrisj]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

There's no actual evidence of that, and even if there were, LOI's in the NHL are non-binding under the new CBA, and offer no recourse for the team crying about them.

No evidence?

"On Sunday, July 1, 2007, Kevin Lowe, Oilers General Manager, and Mr. Mike Gillis, Certified Agent for Michael Nylander, negotiated and agreed to a multi-year NHL Standard Players Contract, starting in 2007/08. Mr. Gillis confirmed same to the Oilers in writing."

It certainly sounds like it was a letter of intent - and I'm not sure the Oilers would use such wording otherwise.

Please show me where in the CBA it says this.

[Travis]

Okay, first, to the troll, I'm done feeding you. If and when you can stop calling Lowe every nasty name under the sun and maybe admit that in some way that Nylander and his agent were obviously not on the same page and went far beyond the norm when it came to contract negotiations/commitments, we could have hockey discussions in the future, until then, I'm done.

As for the earlier question about Hejda, I think you'll be very happy with him at that price. He didn't play here enough to really showcase his game, but when he was in, he was steady and made the plays he had to. Never really dazzled, but wasn't a guy you'd walk away from the game wondering why he was out there (which was the case for more than a few "Oilers" once they had to start icing an AHL lineup in NHL jerseys). I was hoping we might bring him back as our #7 this year, but the signing of Tarnstrom pretty much nixed that idea. Would imagine he could be a reliable third pairing guy who has the upside to potentially be a second pairing guy after enough ice time in the north american game. If not, really nothing lost considering the investment.

[klayman]

Who let the trolls into the hockey thread?

[bbor]

We have finally arrived as a major sport if we have trolls in a hockey thread

[klayman]

I remember when Kevin Lowe slapped that kid.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by bbor

We have finally arrived as a major sport if we have trolls in a hockey thread

But I was talking about you!

[johnnyshaka]

HiFi, you continue to miss the entire point of this discussion.

The Caps and Nylander have a legal and binding contract...the only contract Nylander signed. Fine, we all know that and it is not up for debate, nor should it be. OK?

Where the problem lies is that Kevin Lowe received a signed agreement from Nylander's representative stating that his client had agreed to the terms of whatever contract, in principle. I know, I know...this isn't a legally binding contract...I KNOW...bare with me. The existence of this document has been confirmed all over the place.

So, presuming that Nylander's agent did what you described above and presented all of the offers to his client, it sounds like Nylander picked the Oilers offer and his agent conveyed that choice to Kevin Lowe. Does that sound far fetched at all? I don't think so.

Nylander, who's in Sweden during all of this, has a change of heart and either has his agent send over a signed contract to the Caps or he does it himself. Nobody lets the Oilers know what's going on and they find out like the rest of the world does...on TSN.

Does anything I've described sound unreasonable?

Again, I KNOW that the Oilers didn't have a legally binding contract from Nylander...that is not what we're discussing here. With that reiterated, I'm sure that this sort of stuff goes on all the time meaning that teams and players come to agreements before all the final paperwork is complete. Like it or not, that's the way a lot of business deals are done...with a handshake and the paperwork to follow. Right or wrong, that's the way the world works.

Now, here's what I find odd...Kevin Lowe and the Oilers have brought this issue to light and say they had an aggreement with Nylander's agent...why would Lowe and the Oilers make something like this up? Why conjure up this elaborate web of lies if it weren't true? I mean, all it would take to prove whether or not Lowe and the Oilers are a bunch of liars would be for Nylander and his agent to tell their side of the story but have either of them made a peep?

Hmmm...my guess is that their lawyers have advised their clients to not comment for fear of incriminating themselves.

[klayman]

johnny...go to bed. It's 2 am for crying out loud.

[johnnyshaka]

Nah...doing a little work and watching the highlights.

You go to bed!!

[johnnyshaka]

Lowe speaks:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/Sports/Co...5/4313907.html

HiFi...thoughts?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Lowe speaks:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/Sports/Co...5/4313907.html

HiFi...thoughts?

I think you guys should all lighten up a bit.

Whether Nylander is right or wrong here (I'm still a bit on the fence here), Lowe strikes me as a guy who is lashing out because things haven't gone his way. If he "had known" he would have re-signed Smyth? If he had known what? that it was going to be a very competitive market this summer and that Smyth would ultimately go for far more than he was requesting before the deadline? DUH?