FOFC BBCF initial league info

[Ragone]

I could care less about the starting prestige, i picked louisville long ago knowing it wasn't the best prestige team and expected as such..

Its kinda innane to expect to have some sorta universe where temple can compete with notre dame for 5 star recruits.. thats no universe i'd want to play in

[miked]

Why would anyone want to equalize the prestige? Part of the fun of taking a team like Boise State or something like that is trying to recruit with a good team, but lesser prestige. People chose their teams, if you are unhappy with Kentucky or whatever the low prestige school you selected, then leave and find a league with USC open or something. I just don't understand why everthing has to be equal footing.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by cartman

I've never said people won't have input in the league. But you have to set a baseline config to build off of, and that's what the initial form is going to be: a playoff system, with initial prestige levels generated by the game. I will be seeking league commisioners to head up the different conferences, and if possible, the 5 at-large teams will be chosen by the coaches. Other items as they arise will be put to a vote as much as possible.

Thanks for answering my question, cartman.

[thealmighty]

Originally Posted by duckman

Will the commish be able to choose which teams get the at-large bids? It would be cool to have a 12 member selection committee that chooses which teams get the spots at the end of the regular season. The members would get rotated on a yearly basis to keep it fair.

Or...you could get a panel of people from this board (or wherever) who are not in the league but will follow along. Then at the end of the season, they will vote for the teams to get in. Just a thought.

[gstelmack]

Thank-you Cartman for taking charge, taking no bull, and setting this thing up the way you want to run it with no wishy-washy wavering or cowering. I think you'll be an excellent commish, and I'm looking forward to playing under the rules you are establishing.

[GreenMonster]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Thank-you Cartman for taking charge, taking no bull, and setting this thing up the way you want to run it with no wishy-washy wavering or cowering. I think you'll be an excellent commish, and I'm looking forward to playing under the rules you are establishing.

Agreed. Let Cartman set up the rules, and then join if you still want to. You can't please everyone being a commish and anyone should be able to find a league to suit there needs and wants (prestige...._).

[Buccaneer]

I am a very happy panda.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by miked

Why would anyone want to equalize the prestige? Part of the fun of taking a team like Boise State or something like that is trying to recruit with a good team, but lesser prestige. People chose their teams, if you are unhappy with Kentucky or whatever the low prestige school you selected, then leave and find a league with USC open or something. I just don't understand why everthing has to be equal footing.

I was gonna let this go, but I find this an incredibly short-sighted statement. This is basically a "If you don't like it, go somewhere else", which isn't a healthy attitude. If there was a more fair way of distributing teams other than who signed on to the board first, then it's ultimately not a fair system. Either equal out the teams or equal of the way the teams are initially distributed.

If the commish's decision is this, fine, but don't go off with this idiotic "Like it or Leave" tangent.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

I was gonna let this go, but I find this an incredibly short-sighted statement. This is basically a "If you don't like it, go somewhere else", which isn't a healthy attitude. If there was a more fair way of distributing teams other than who signed on to the board first, then it's ultimately not a fair system. Either equal out the teams or equal of the way the teams are initially distributed.

If the commish's decision is this, fine, but don't go off with this idiotic "Like it or Leave" tangent.

This thread was started in April. People were still picking up good teams in June. It's not like someone missed out on a team because Cartman posted at 10:00 at night and they were all gone when they checked in at work the next morning...

[panerd]

I just want my Tigers to beat up on Kansas every year and maybe have a shot at taking out Texas or Oklahoma once in a blue moon. Like you guys couldn't figure out how this league was set-up when USC, Texas, Notre Dame, etc were taken and the MAC teams weren't. There are goals for each level and my team may only have to make a bowl where USC and Miami will have to contend for national titles every year. I was aware of this going in and am not going to bitch because I have a lower prestige team. (Plus, it looks like from every year #1 I have played Arles seems to have an inflated view of how good Missouri actually is )

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by panerd

I just want my Tigers to beat up on Kansas every year and maybe have a shot at taking out Texas or Oklahoma once in a blue moon. Like you guys couldn't figure out how this league was set-up when USC, Texas, Notre Dame, etc were taken and the MAC teams weren't. There are goals for each level and my team may only have to make a bowl where USC and Miami will have to contend for national titles every year. I was aware of this going in and am not going to bitch because I have a lower prestige team. (Plus, it looks like from every year #1 I have played Arles seems to have an inflated view of how good Missouri actually is )

MAKE ME PROUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I'll take Ole Miss or as it is listed in the game, Mississippi.

This was posted on December 1st, dang near 8 months after the thread started. Ole Miss has Above Average prestige. There was *plenty* of time to get a higher prestige team if that was all that one was after.

[Ragone]

skydog echos my sentiments.. if you look at the first two pages.. its mostly people grabbing the teams they support/been fans of their whole lives

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

This was posted on December 1st, dang near 8 months after the thread started. Ole Miss has Above Average prestige. There was *plenty* of time to get a higher prestige team if that was all that one was after.

Im not joining this league, and im not against a commish making his own rules, but calling teams out in april may june is just unfair if you ask me...thats not the reason im avoiding this league like the plauge, but i must voice my support for WVu on this matter sky...I personally think by the most legit way to do it would be to randomly select everyone into an order to pick teams before this league started. But there are many more legit ways to do this...i was avoiding bbcf until i played the demo and didnt mind it at all. if i wanted to get in on this now that i like it, im 8 months too late for many of the teams i root for(actually all, but anyways). Just seemed to me that he was quite right in that the way teams were distributed was an unfair system. Yes, ole miss was around for awhile, but i hope your open enough to see my point...1/50 teams being left available doesnt prove your point

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

There was *plenty* of time to get a higher prestige team if that was all that one was after.

It makes no sense to join a league before anyone knows anything about how the game will work. Since a demo wasn't available until November, and the quote "good" teams were taken in APRIL, where's the fairness in that? You have no idea how the game will go at all.

Again, it's really not fair that players get teams because they posted in June and others waited until they found out if they liked the game or not when the first demo was released 6 months later.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

It makes no sense to join a league before anyone knows anything about how the game will work. Since a demo wasn't available until November, and the quote "good" teams were taken in June, where's the fairness in that? You have no idea how the game will go at all.

Again, it's really not fair that players get teams because they posted in June and others waited until they, y'know, found up if they liked the game or not.

uh oh, watch out WVU, you're in danger of making complete sense....

[duckman]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

Again, it's really not fair that players get teams because they posted in June and others waited until they, y'know, found up if they liked the game or not.

I hate to break this to you, but life is not fair.

Look, I didn't get the team I wanted (OU), but I decided to take a Big XII school, so I can at least compete with some of the teams that are affiliated with it. I also like the idea that I have to work even harder on my squad if I want to stay competitive in the conference and get them to the playoffs.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

It makes no sense to join a league before anyone knows anything about how the game will work. Since a demo wasn't available until November, and the quote "good" teams were taken in APRIL, where's the fairness in that? You have no idea how the game will go at all.

Again, it's really not fair that players get teams because they posted in June and others waited until they found out if they liked the game or not when the first demo was released 6 months later.

Shit, I am by no means one of the regulars on this board or an elitest, but if you don't like it so much that don't play in this league. If like 10 of you guys leave, then 10 people will take your place. You can run your own league however you want. If you had WVU instead of Cincinnati we probably wouldn't hear a peep from you.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

It makes no sense to join a league before anyone knows anything about how the game will work. Since a demo wasn't available until November, and the quote "good" teams were taken in June, where's the fairness in that? You have no idea how the game will go at all.

Again, it's really not fair that players get teams because they posted in June and others waited until they, y'know, found up if they liked the game or not.

Sounds like a case of nothing ventured, nothing gained. Plus, it's not like anyone would hold it against anyone if they said right now, "You know what? I just don't like the game. Sorry guys, I'm out."

It makes all the sense in the world to join a league with people I've interacted with for 6-7 years before knowing all the ins and outs of the game, too. I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I would want to compete against FOFCers, so it was a complete no-brainer to go ahead and reserve a spot with my favorite team.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by panerd

Shit, I am by no means one of the regulars on this board or an elitest, but if you don't like it so much that don't play in this league. If like 10 of you guys leave, then 10 people will take your place. You can run your own league however you want. If you had WVU instead of Cincinnati we probably wouldn't hear a peep from you.

Panerd, im echoing his statements and im not even in the league...is be saying it if i had any of my teams or not...hell atlantic said it too...im commenting on the system that wasnt fair, and id prefer if you didnt blow of the remarks with the dont like it leave approach.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by panerd

Shit, I am by no means one of the regulars on this board or an elitest, but if you don't like it so much that don't play in this league. If like 10 of you guys leave, then 10 people will take your place. You can run your own league however you want. If you had WVU instead of Cincinnati we probably wouldn't hear a peep from you.

Again with the "if you don't like it, leave" argument. It's SO DAMN SICK of that argument. It's the point someone makes when they have no rational argument to make.

Oh, and by the way, I would still make the same argument if I had WVU. I'm happy with Cincinatti, and will play with Cincinatti. It's not what team I have, it's the fairness of the process.

[WrongWay]

I do not know how else you would do it. Assigning owners randomly to teams does not seem like a good way to start a league. How is first come first served any different than a lottery system?

If you want a good team just wait untill mid Janusary when this league starts and I suspect you will have at least a dozen owners go MIA before then.

The Prestige arguement in BBCF is just a variation of the Real Roster arguement of FOF. Every comish has to make a decision between going with a real universe, or a fake one. How can anyone say one is better than the other?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Panerd, im echoing his statements and im not even in the league...is be saying it if i had any of my teams or not...hell atlantic said it too...im commenting on the system that wasnt fair, and id prefer if you didnt blow of the remarks with the dont like it leave approach.

Well it's Cartman's league and he said he was doing it that way. So really it does basically boil down to play or join another league. If enough people agree with him then this league will dismantle. If Cartman wants to make the website and put in the time as commish than he should feel free to run it how he pleases. I don't know Hell Atlantic as well as you guys probably do, but from what I have read from him I have a feeling if he were Miami he would be happy with Miami's starting prestige.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by WrongWay

I do not know how else you would do it. Assigning owners randomly to teams does not seem like a good way to start a league. How is first come first served any different than a lottery system?

If you want a good team just wait untill mid Janusary when this league starts and I suspect you will have at least a dozen owners go MIA before then.

The Prestige arguement in BBCF is just a variation of the Real Roster arguement of FOF. Every comish has to make a decision between going with a real universe, or a fake one. How can anyone say one is better than the other?

cuz there's trading in FOF. there's signing a key free agent in FOF. there are ways to get good players on your team in a pro sim. in a college sim, right off the bat if you're a low prestige team you have to spend the first 4 or 5 seasons not getting the blue chip players that the powerhouse schools are privy to. yeah, the cream will rise to the top, but that's only eventually. there's still that artificial advantage (or disadvantage, depending on your view) at the outset of a league for select teams. i'll probably just will wait until this league gets closer to starting to see which owners have gone AWOL and see what new teams have opened up.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by panerd

Well it's Cartman's league and he said he was doing it that way. So really it does basically boil down to play or join another league. If enough people agree with him then this league will dismantle. If Cartman wants to make the website and put in the time as commish than he should feel free to run it how he pleases. I don't know Hell Atlantic as well as you guys probably do, but from what I have read from him I have a feeling if he were Miami he would be happy with Miami's starting prestige.

If you read my post before that i said that if the commish wanted it that way then thats fine, and im not asking you to change teams or give stuff up. Im pointing out how horribly unbalanced the team selection process was. I have yet to play a text sim multi-player, i always seem to get cheaters, and i wouldnt join this one even if Arizona State was open. I merely saying its unfair to pick teams months before a demo even came out. You can ignore that fact all you want, but there is no way around the fact that this league was unfair.

As for ben, your comments about knowing you wanted to play i take with caution as you were a beta tester. As someone who didnt see even a glimpse of the product until november it may be a different tune. Im off, you guys and your close-minded arguments are getting me frustrated with something i shouldnt care about.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by panerd

I don't know Hell Atlantic as well as you guys probably do, but from what I have read from him I have a feeling if he were Miami he would be happy with Miami's starting prestige.

i would be. my alma mater isn't in D-1, so even if they sucked i'd still have that sense of attachment - i still have school pride to put up with having a shitty team, getting recruits from high schools i personally know. since i have no allegiance to any of these teams, i'd rather have a team that isn't burdened with unnecessary obstacles such as not starting off with a high enough prestige level.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

As for ben, your comments about knowing you wanted to play i take with caution as you were a beta tester. As someone who didnt see even a glimpse of the product until november it may be a different tune. Im off, you guys and your close-minded arguments are getting me frustrated with something i shouldnt care about.

For the 11,540th time, no, I was not an official beta tester. I got my first glimpse of the game in November as well. Arlie got a copy of the beta to me a week and a half or so before the first demo. I made my decision just as blind as anyone else.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by panerd

Well it's Cartman's league and he said he was doing it that way. So really it does basically boil down to play or join another league. If enough people agree with him then this league will dismantle. If Cartman wants to make the website and put in the time as commish than he should feel free to run it how he pleases. I don't know Hell Atlantic as well as you guys probably do, but from what I have read from him I have a feeling if he were Miami he would be happy with Miami's starting prestige.

I'm not arguing about equaling out Prestige. I spoke to cartman over PM and he explained his reasoning, which while I disagree with, I accept. I AM arguing over the idea of claiming teams for a league when the game the league is based off wasn't released until 6 months later.

SkyDog, I have no doubt you joined to play with the other FoFC's. Allowing everyone at least the semblance of a chance to have the team they want, and you still get to play with the FoFCers. Win/Win.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

if you're a low prestige team you have to spend the first 4 or 5 seasons not getting the blue chip players that the powerhouse schools are privy to..

FYI, from what I've seen, I think it will take *much* longer than just 4 or 5 seasons. If being competitive on a national level is what people are interested in, I'd strongly suggest getting into a league where you can get a team with "High" or "Excellent" prestige, or into a league with a bunch of human owners who don't turn in their exports during recruiting. Don't expect the 4-5 season ramp-up of a TCY. Prestige is *much* more static in BBCF.

[WrongWay]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

FYI, from what I've seen, I think it will take *much* longer than just 4 or 5 seasons. If being competitive on a national level is what people are interested in, I'd strongly suggest getting into a league where you can get a team with "High" or "Excellent" prestige, or into a league with a bunch of human owners who don't turn in their exports during recruiting. Don't expect the 4-5 season ramp-up of a TCY. Prestige is *much* more static in BBCF.

WOW, are you saying that recruiting is going to be this 1 dimensional? A recruit will only look at a teams prestige and nothing else to make a decision on where they are going?

If so, that would take forever to turn a team around.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

FYI, from what I've seen, I think it will take *much* longer than just 4 or 5 seasons. If being competitive on a national level is what people are interested in, I'd strongly suggest getting into a league where you can get a team with "High" or "Excellent" prestige, or into a league with a bunch of human owners who don't turn in their exports during recruiting. Don't expect the 4-5 season ramp-up of a TCY. Prestige is *much* more static in BBCF.

hmmm, hence more proof as to why i likely wouldn't fully enjoy being in such a league. i was being *very* liberal with my 4 to 5 years till turning around a low prestige team, btw. people are under the impression that college football is the same as FOF, where you can have a "worst to first" scenario. i like the limitations on my success to be determined by me, or cuz someone is a better player than me, not cuz of how the teams started out with high or low prestige.

[cody8200]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

FYI, from what I've seen, I think it will take *much* longer than just 4 or 5 seasons. If being competitive on a national level is what people are interested in, I'd strongly suggest getting into a league where you can get a team with "High" or "Excellent" prestige, or into a league with a bunch of human owners who don't turn in their exports during recruiting. Don't expect the 4-5 season ramp-up of a TCY. Prestige is *much* more static in BBCF.

I've been able to make IU a top 15 team in just under 5 years. Boo-ya! You just gotta get the right coaches and the right recruits. Of course I do have a month and a half head start on most everyone else

[cody8200]

Dola.

By the way, I made my decision about choosing IU well after I began playing the game a month earlier (since I was a beta tester). I dont mind not winning the first 2 years or so. I welcome the challenge of whooping OSU's ass 4 or 5 years in. Imagine their suprise

[Passacaglia]

Low prestige Illinois coach checking in here. I signed up pretty damn early, and still didn't get my first choice!

Anyway, I wouldn't want to equalize prestige. I think it's screwy to see shitty teams in 100K seat stadiums. And it makes the conference dynamics weird. I'm like HA, waiting here in Illinois (my-sorta-other-alma-mater), hoping to get to Michigan. But while I'm here, I'm going to love seeing what I can do to get the Illini some Big Ten wins and into a bowl game.

Can we have some concrete formula, based on prestige? Or some hard-coded requirements that must be met, or else the coach gets fired? I mean, there are already expectations in the game. Maybe we can use that? SkyDog or anyone else, is there an easy way to post the prestige levels of every school? I'll see if I can work on an idea.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by WrongWay

WOW, are you saying that recruiting is going to be this 1 dimensional? A recruit will only look at a teams prestige and nothing else to make a decision on where they are going?

If so, that would take forever to turn a team around.

No, they look at location, playing time, the system the team runs, etc. However, Kentucky is extremely unlikely to land A 4-5-star QB from Lexington if UT, Florida, FSU, Miami, UGA, Auburn, LSU or other High/Excellent prestige schools from the Southeast are interested. The odds are great that, just like in real life, at least one of those schools will have a fit for the big-timer.

[cartman]

Since I have received several PMs asking me about my stance on not going with everyone at the same prestige level, I'll answer it here.

Having everyone start with the same initial prestige level only works for the beginning coaches, and you are assuming zero coach turnover. After several seasons, all of the teams will be at different prestige levels. What do you do when a coach leaves, and a new one joins? Do you set everyone back to the same initial level, so all are on equal footing again? If not, then the new coach will have either an advantage or a disadvantage that the other coaches did not have to face.

As for the team selection, I posted about the league way before any demo came out. In fact, I think it was done after the first developer chat with Arlie about how the game was going to be structured. I used to run a league a long time ago back on Prodigy (remember them?) with All American College Football. From what I had heard from Arlie, BBCF sounded like the game I wish we had back then. So on pure faith, I decided I would start up a league, and would hope that other fervent college football fans from FOFC would join. I would equate the choosing of teams a bit to picking IPO stocks. The first ones in are choosing teams on pure faith. If it pays off, then you are rewarded. The people that come in post-IPO are never as happy as the pre-IPO people, but there is still room for growth for the post-IPOers.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cody8200

I've been able to make IU a top 15 team in just under 5 years. Boo-ya! You just gotta get the right coaches and the right recruits. Of course I do have a month and a half head start on most everyone else

That's pretty impressive, but do you think it can be done against humans?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

SkyDog or anyone else, is there an easy way to post the prestige levels of every school? I'll see if I can work on an idea.

Yeah, it is in a table in one of the .dat files. I'm on my way out the door in a few, but I'm sure someone could help you with that.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by cody8200

I've been able to make IU a top 15 team in just under 5 years. Boo-ya! You just gotta get the right coaches and the right recruits. Of course I do have a month and a half head start on most everyone else

i hope the game is not that easy to turn a bad prestige team into a good team and make the top 15 that quickly.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

i hope the game is not that easy to turn a bad prestige team into a good team ad make the top 15 that quickly.

There are instances of this in real life. Look at Utah pre-Urban Meyer. In two season he took them from doormats to a Top 5 team.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by cartman

Since I have received several PMs asking me about my stance on not going with everyone at the same prestige level, I'll answer it here.

Having everyone start with the same initial prestige level only works for the beginning coaches, and you are assuming zero coach turnover. After several seasons, all of the teams will be at different prestige levels. What do you do when a coach leaves, and a new one joins? Do you set everyone back to the same initial level, so all are on equal footing again? If not, then the new coach will have either an advantage or a disadvantage that the other coaches did not have to face.

As for the team selection, I posted about the league way before any demo came out. In fact, I think it was done after the first developer chat with Arlie about how the game was going to be structured. I used to run a league a long time ago back on Prodigy (remember them?) with All American College Football. From what I had heard from Arlie, BBCF sounded like the game I wish we had back then. So on pure faith, I decided I would start up a league, and would hope that other fervent college football fans from FOFC would join. I would equate the choosing of teams a bit to picking IPO stocks. The first ones in are choosing teams on pure faith. If it pays off, then you are rewarded. The people that come in post-IPO are never as happy as the pre-IPO people, but there is still room for growth for the post-IPOers.

Don't worry about it Cartman.

People signed up late knowing good teams were gone and didn't complain. You have the vocal minority complaining but if they decide not to join people would take over their teams for them, and we'll keep on trucking.

I think it can be easier to make a lower team better with all these human coaches because a moron could have a great team and drive it into the ground while a great player can build a mediocre team to powerhouse status.

So I think it's a dead issue.

[cartman]

I just got notice that the fofc-bbcf.com domain has gone active. Now I just have to get the content uploaded and we will soon have a forum there to use.

[illinifan999]

I'm content with keeping Florida Atlantic horrible.

[WrongWay]

Are these TCY concepts present in BBCF.

Idolization?
Bribing?

Do recruits have prefrences? Someone mentioned about Kentucky not being able to recruit a player from LExington if some top schools in florida wanted him. Is this a 100% guarantee that this player will go to Florida. Never would a player choose distance from home over School prestige?

[Passacaglia]

So are you The Great Cornholio?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by cartman

I just got notice that the fofc-bbcf.com domain has gone active. Now I just have to get the content uploaded and we will soon have a forum there to use.

Hope so. Maybe then when can get a few people to STFU.

[kingfc22]

Thanks for all the effort you are putting into this Cartman.

I signed up late and was able to pick a Big XII team. I would have loved to play as Michigan (my fav team) or a Pac-10 team (close to home), but I'm just looking forward to playing in a league against so many FOFC members.

[cody8200]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

That's pretty impressive, but do you think it can be done against humans?

Its really hard to say. I'm thinking no, but I am hoping yes I figure that it will be quite a bit harder to get the better offensive and defensive coaches against other humans. As I'm sure you have seen, these coaches are one of the most important factors to having good seasons. Followed by how much money you spend on advance scouting which I believe has played a large factor in many of my close games.

Heres some advice for those who would want it:

Many people allow the cpu to suggest their budget...Never ever allow this. Many times the cpu will go after every position equally. If you have a good punter and a good kicker, dont waste 20 or 30k on special teams. If you have a good runningback for the next few years, dont worry so much about the position. Remember that this is college. You have the player for 4 or 5 years and that is it. You are drafting for the near future, not the long term like the NFL. Put that money for scouting or for academics. After week 2 I rarely, if ever, have any starters that are on probation. I usually put 70k on academics. Because, if you dont, down the line probation will kill you.

Also, many people seem to froget about the medical categort under the budget. Always put in about 70k on this one. While I have injuries, I can usually get my guys playing again much quicker than if I left this number at a minimum.

If you know your team is going to lose a lot of games on the year. Minimize every category except for strength and conditioning and academics and go as high as you can for recruiting. This way, even though you will most likely lose many of your games, the guys that have room for potential can still gain experience and strength before next season.

[sovereignstar]

Here's a one-time deal for anyone that wants to start off as a better team:

If anyone wants Florida, I'll take on a bigger challenge with Bowling Green.

[cody8200]

Sovereign, actually BG is a fairly good team in this game. After 3 or 4 years they usually are dominant within their division.